EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 815
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giftdgecko
United States2126 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On October 06 2018 04:57 giftdgecko wrote: Manchin officially voting yes now so he can solidify his reelection This makes sense for him since Kavanaugh will be confirmed anyways. Smart decision imo. This goes a long way towards getting him re elected. Well, I'm glad this mess is finally over. Congrats to the DNC, Schumer, and Pelosi. Frankly I'm not sure you could have drawn up a better political outcome given the hand they were playing with. I also look forward to years of Justice Duffman delegitimizing the court by breaking down the illusion that it isnt a partisan body essentially filled with lobbyists. Since we were going to get the pick anyways, the more I think about this the better I feel. I'll have a beer tonight in honor of Justice Duffman! | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12538 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On October 06 2018 05:08 ticklishmusic wrote: haha fuck manchin. i don't even care, i hope he loses in november. Nah. He is still better than who ever the Republicans would send up, even if not by much. At least he will vote for some Democratic stuff once they are in power again. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
On October 06 2018 05:15 Logo wrote: If Daines doesn't show up is Manchin effectively the deciding vote? i think they are going to wait for him | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 06 2018 05:15 Logo wrote: If Daines doesn't show up is Manchin effectively the deciding vote? They have 50 with Collins, so Pence can break the tie. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On October 06 2018 05:13 On_Slaught wrote: Nah. He is still better than who ever the Republicans would send up, even if not by much. At least he will vote for some Democratic stuff once they are in power again. i give manchin a lot of slack because of his circumstances and because he's manchin, but nope. i've gotten called a shill, etc. because i support things based on political expediency, but this is my red line. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On October 06 2018 05:18 Plansix wrote: They have 50 with Collins, so Pence can break the tie. But it is 51 with Daines + Collins + Manchin. So only 50 if Daines isn't around right? A delay seems likely so he can make it, but was just curious. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 06 2018 05:13 Nebuchad wrote: The notion that this is somehow a win or a good outcome for Democrats in any way is ridiculous It is bad in every way. People are just seeing the only bright side that Democrats are pissed that the most unpopular nominee in modern history was voted through. And the Republicans were shameless enough to accuse Democrats of being obstructionist when Republicans did the exact same thing in 2016. But mostly, this is losing. Republicans got everything they wanted out of Trump. It is just a matter of making them pay for it in November. Edit: Also, the assault on Kavanaugh isn’t over. He will likely become the Clinton for the left and Democratic party. He will never be accepted as unbiased or impartial and will cast as shadow over any close ruling of the court. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On October 06 2018 05:13 Nebuchad wrote: The notion that this is somehow a win or a good outcome for Democrats in any way is ridiculous Why? The fact Trump would be getting this pick was baked in back on Nov 9, 2016. Once you accept that they were ALWAYS going to get to fill Kennedy's seat with a hyper conservative it's easy to see this as a win. What scenario is better: Scenario 1: Ford and the others never come out and Kavanaugh smoothly and without drama is voted into SCOTUS. Dems quickly forget about him, like they did with Gorsuch. Trump has his guy without any fuss and most of the Dem base is none the wiser. Scenario 2: A huge fucking drama unfolds. Dem voters are furious, women in particular. Independent women are driven away from the Republican party for their callousness. Republicans do more to cement themselves as the sexual assault party of men, fair or not. It also drastically increases the chances of Roberts moving to the middle. The fact this was so publically political will make him much more afraid of 5-4 votes for the right than he would have been if none of this happened. Further, any boost in enthusiam this gave Republicans has to somehow survive dozens of news cycles between now and the election; not easy to do when your side got what they wanted. On the other hand everytime Kavanaugh's name is mentioned, and it will be mentioned regularly by the media given how popular the controversy around him is, it will remind Democrats of all this and get them motivated all over again. This process may have made the supreme court the number one issue for Dems in the upcoming elections. I dont think that is the case if scenario 1 happens. So yeah, I'm fine with this. Seriously people, they were always going to get someone. Move past that. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 06 2018 05:27 On_Slaught wrote: Why? The fact Trump would be getting this pick was baked in back on Nov 9, 2016. Once you accept that they were ALWAYS going to get to fill Kennedy's seat with a hyper conservative it's easy to see this as a win. What scenario is better: Scenario 1: Ford and the others never come out and Kavanaugh smoothly and without drama is voted into SCOTUS. Dems quickly forget about him, like they did with Gorsuch. Trump has his guy without any fuss and most of the Dem base is none the wiser. Scenario 2: A huge fucking drama unfolds. Dem voters are furious, women in particular. Independent women are driven away from the Republican party for their callousness. Republicans do more to cement themselves as the sexual assault party of men, fair or not. It also drastically increases the chances of Roberts moving to the middle. The fact this was so publically political will make him much more afraid of 5-4 votes for the right than he would have been if none of this happened. Further, any boost in enthusiam this gave Republicans has to somehow survive dozens of news cycles between now and the election; not easy to do when your side got what they wanted. On the other hand everytime Kavanaugh's name is mentioned, and it will be mentioned regularly by the media given how popular the controversy around him is, it will remind Democrats of all this and get them motivated all over again. This process may have made the supreme court the number one issue for Dems in the upcoming elections. I dont think that is the case if scenario 1 happens. So yeah, I'm fine with this. Seriously people, they were always going to get someone. Move past that. As someone who is concerned that the court will gut the pre-existing conditions part of the ACA, I’m going to disagree with this assessment whole heartedly. This is a terrible outcome for anyone relying on the civil protections that have been in place since the 1960 and 1970s. Anything that civil liberties protection created in that time is no longer safe. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On October 06 2018 05:39 Plansix wrote: As someone who is concerned that the court will gut the pre-existing conditions part of the ACA, I’m going to disagree with this assessment whole heartedly. This is a terrible outcome for anyone relying on the civil protections that have been in place since the 1960 and 1970s. Anything that civil liberties protection created in that time is no longer safe. Again, how does this change if Hardiman, Barrett, or Kethledge are put on the court? The Dems aren't going to win the Senate (the numbers are just too disadvantaged) so they were always going to get someone on the court who threatens these rights. At least he's older than Barrett... shed be on there another 10 years longer probably. The only real difference between them is how overtly political Kavanaugh is. As for the ACA, I know from this thread that that is a real issue for you and your family. However on that front, while I dont know about the others, at least Kavanaugh, as Collins pointed out, has on the record an instance of him psuedo defending the ACA. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12538 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 06 2018 05:45 On_Slaught wrote: Again, how does this change if Hardiman, Barrett, or Kethledge are put on the court? The Dems aren't going to win the Senate (the numbers are just too disadvantaged) so they were always going to get someone on the court who threatens these rights. At least he's older than Barrett... shed be on there another 10 years longer probably. The only real difference between them is how overtly political Kavanaugh is. As for the ACA, I know from this thread that that is a real issue for you and your family. However on that front, while I dont know about the others, at least Kavanaugh, as Collins pointed out, has on the record an instance of him psuedo defending the ACA. Because I trust that feckless political operative as far as I can throw him and he worked for the Bush administration on such amazing things as torture. He is, in fact, one of the worst people to have on the court. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On October 06 2018 05:53 Plansix wrote: Because I trust that feckless political operative as far as I can throw him and he worked for the Bush administration on such amazing things as torture. He is, in fact, one of the worst people to have on the court. But people recognize that now. It would have been worse if he smoothly went through, thus normalizing his existence on the court. I dont disagree tho that it would have been more palatable to give the Republicans their righteous indignation from him failing to get somebody less offensive on the court. | ||
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