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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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United States44353 Posts
On March 21 2026 15:20 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2026 14:09 baal wrote:On March 19 2026 17:08 EnDeR_ wrote:
Happy to include denying the holodomor illegal. Is there a big group of people going around denying that it happened? YES! almost every hard communist and tankie I've talked with denies de holodomor, its a mainstream hard leftist idea, just as its common hard right wingers deny the holocaust. I don't think you can make the equivalence of the hammer and sickle and nazi swastikas; one stands for an ideology about resource distribution, the other stands for white supremacy and antisemitism. It is obviously true that atrocities have been committed under the banner of communism, but the stated intent was never "eradicate the jews" or "purify the white race" for any of these regimes, if you see what I mean. The key difference is intent, even if the outcomes aren't too dissimilar in practice. The stated intent of the Nazi party was never to exterminate the jews, yet they did in secret just like the stated intent of Soviets wasn't to exterminate the Kulaks, yet they did in secret. -When somebody says "eat the rich" they don't actually mean to kill the rich, despise that historically they always have done it, it just means, redistribute. -When a muslim chants in the streets "Khaibar Khaibar ya Yahud" they don't actually mean to massacre the jews like they did in Khaibar, its just a chant of the oppressed against Israel. -When somebody says "seig heil" oh ok that is hate speech, arrest him. That's ridiculous hates speech laws are enforced however the people in power see fit, and as I've said before, there will be a time where the people in power think very different than you and will apply these laws in ways you won't like. Source for the bolded?
Yeah, they literally wrote a book about doing it and it's not like Kristallnacht was secret either.
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On March 21 2026 15:14 Falling wrote:
Why would Japan get to know?
Well, we are assuming a world in which Trump and friends actually wanted a country like Japan to join them in Iran. Then they should probably know in advance so they can move military assets over in a timely manner. And maybe stock up in preparation for oil shortages.
But if the US doesn't want allies to join, then they should just carry on as they are by springing random wars around the world and vague-post on social media, complaining that no one is joining your party but failing to ever make a formal invite.
You can join a party after it starts, most people do actually except for the one who started it, that analogy was not ideally chosen. The US certainly wasn't in WW2 from the beginning of the party.
You could also move military assets without knowing the exact plan, as the US and its moving assets did, simply trusting the plan without knowing it. So sure the US could say "Hey Japan move your aircraft-carrier-but-not-really-wink to the Persian Gulf" before hostilities started.
However, then we have gone in a rhetorical circle. The US did ask the UK, its parent and maybe 4th? oldest ally? to use UK bases before the war began. Surely easier and requires less work than moving any assets. Didn't work.
So yeah not telling Japan is right for people who have any notion of the value of the element of surprise.
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The US just lifted sanctions on Iranian oil exports so that they may lower the price of oil. They also argued that by doing so they are beating Iran with their own weapons because they are now lowering the price of oil.
This is just peak comedy.
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On March 21 2026 13:32 WombaT wrote:
Argggghhhh
More diligence went into that post than the war itself
Clearly the US has taken every conceivable position on that war and thus has the issue surrounded.
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On March 21 2026 17:43 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2026 13:32 WombaT wrote:
Argggghhhh
More diligence went into that post than the war itself Clearly the US has taken every conceivable position on that war and thus has the issue surrounded.
It's just standard Game theory. Red Rolls, white ceiling
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On March 21 2026 16:40 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2026 15:14 Falling wrote:
Why would Japan get to know?
Well, we are assuming a world in which Trump and friends actually wanted a country like Japan to join them in Iran. Then they should probably know in advance so they can move military assets over in a timely manner. And maybe stock up in preparation for oil shortages.
But if the US doesn't want allies to join, then they should just carry on as they are by springing random wars around the world and vague-post on social media, complaining that no one is joining your party but failing to ever make a formal invite. You can join a party after it starts, most people do actually except for the one who started it, that analogy was not ideally chosen. The US certainly wasn't in WW2 from the beginning of the party. You could also move military assets without knowing the exact plan, as the US and its moving assets did, simply trusting the plan without knowing it. So sure the US could say "Hey Japan move your aircraft-carrier-but-not-really-wink to the Persian Gulf" before hostilities started. However, then we have gone in a rhetorical circle. The US did ask the UK, its parent and maybe 4th? oldest ally? to use UK bases before the war began. Surely easier and requires less work than moving any assets. Didn't work. So yeah not telling Japan is right for people who have any notion of the value of the element of surprise.
There are multiple possible take-away from the UK declining the US on the topic. Just a few from the top of my head follow below. Using UK bases for it means they join the war from an Iranian point of view and take the publicity for it at home.
- The UK thinks it is a stupid war and wants to change US policy on it, wanting to start a dialogue to change US opinion.
- The UK thinks it is a stupid war and wants a better explanation before supporting it. Iraq burnt a lot of good will and due diligence is more important after that. This is even one reason France/Germany doesn't trust US intelligence as much and was a very negative factor for the start of the Ukraine war.
- The UK thinks it is a good war but doesn't want to get drawn into it at this time. With better preparation and planning they could be convinced this is the right time.
- The UK has no opinion on the war but just thinks the suggested plan is not good and wants to draw up a better one before joining.
- The UK feels they have become a client state and use this opportunity to show they are an ally and not a client state.
- The UK perhaps wants to use the war as an opportunity for better trade deals. Since that is how Trump has been acting it would be something they expect to get away with, but the war launches before it can be finished.
I personally think the UK choice isn't so much about not wanting to be a good ally. I think it is about proper planning and dialogue. They would have to prepare domestic support for the war before it starts as just one example of something that needs time.
If you spend a year burning your relations, have history as a nation of lying about your reasons to start wars etc. Why would your defensive allies and trade partners want to join an offensive war that will be very costly? You need to explain to them why this is required at this time and why it benefits the alliance as a whole.
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On March 21 2026 15:20 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2026 14:09 baal wrote:On March 19 2026 17:08 EnDeR_ wrote:
Happy to include denying the holodomor illegal. Is there a big group of people going around denying that it happened? YES! almost every hard communist and tankie I've talked with denies de holodomor, its a mainstream hard leftist idea, just as its common hard right wingers deny the holocaust. I don't think you can make the equivalence of the hammer and sickle and nazi swastikas; one stands for an ideology about resource distribution, the other stands for white supremacy and antisemitism. It is obviously true that atrocities have been committed under the banner of communism, but the stated intent was never "eradicate the jews" or "purify the white race" for any of these regimes, if you see what I mean. The key difference is intent, even if the outcomes aren't too dissimilar in practice. The stated intent of the Nazi party was never to exterminate the jews, yet they did in secret just like the stated intent of Soviets wasn't to exterminate the Kulaks, yet they did in secret. -When somebody says "eat the rich" they don't actually mean to kill the rich, despise that historically they always have done it, it just means, redistribute. -When a muslim chants in the streets "Khaibar Khaibar ya Yahud" they don't actually mean to massacre the jews like they did in Khaibar, its just a chant of the oppressed against Israel. -When somebody says "seig heil" oh ok that is hate speech, arrest him. That's ridiculous hates speech laws are enforced however the people in power see fit, and as I've said before, there will be a time where the people in power think very different than you and will apply these laws in ways you won't like. Source for the bolded?
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/deceiving-the-public
Hitler before 1939 spoke exclusively of expulsion of the jews. Deeper into the war his rhetoric shifter towards total destruction of the jewery in Europe, language vague enough to maintain deniability of genocide intent.
I mean, It's pretty obvious, do you think german citizens would vote in a guy that from day one ran a campaing on mass murder of every single jew? That would be a big misconception of how things like the holocaust happen
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On March 21 2026 15:37 KwarK wrote:
Yeah, they literally wrote a book about doing it and it's not like Kristallnacht was secret either.
If everybody knew do you think so many millions of jews were stupid enough to not leave Germany before the war?
Most people didn't know, sure, the ones that read mein kampf, the ones that paid close attention and were smart enough knew, and many fled.
The soviets did the same thing, Stalin publicly promised "the elimination of the kulak class" and everybody cheered, most didn't know they were going to get killed.
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United States44353 Posts
On March 21 2026 19:08 baal wrote:
If everybody knew do you think so many millions of jews were stupid enough to not leave Germany before the war
You're showing your ignorance pretty badly here.
A great many did leave Germany. For example you may have heard of Anne Frank. Although the famous Anne Frank house is in Amsterdam she was actually a German Jew, she was born in Frankfurt, her family left in 1934. She wasn't alone, by 1939 the German Jewish population was only 200,000.
But they faced problems in leaving.
1. Nazi Germany faced constant and severe deficits in foreign currency which was generally blamed on Jews. That meant German Jews fleeing Germany were not able to obtain foreign currency, the banks simply would not give them currency that could be used outside of Germany.
2. German Jews were subjected to a series of seizures, especially in the wake of Kristallnacht (the Judenvermögensabgabe). They also had gold and jewelry seized. They were deliberately stripped of their assets by the state.
3. Foreign nations refused entry to Jews, especially those without any assets which was a lot of them, as caused by German policy. It was not as simple as fleeing, they had to flee to somewhere. Jewish refugee ships were famously refused docking.
4. Germany wouldn't let them leave. There were movement restrictions.
But Anne Frank is a classic example of the problem that you've somehow missed.
You literally don't know enough history to even ask the question properly. You ask why "so many millions of jews were stupid enough to not leave Germany"? What millions of Jews? They never existed, the German Jewish population wasn't numbered in millions. You're imagining some bizarre fiction where millions of German Jews forgot to flee because you've somehow forgotten World War 2. The Jews lived in Poland. They lived in Russia. They lived in Romania and the Baltics. They lived in western Europe where many of them had fled to from Germany. Their problem wasn't that they didn't notice that the Nazis hated Jews, it's that the Nazis conquered Europe and the Einsatzgruppen moved directly behind the Wehrmacht and worked closely with them.
Anne Frank did flee Germany. It didn't help.
The problem with you isn’t that you don’t wonder the answers to things you don’t understand, it’s that after posing the question to yourself you decide to just make up some shit rather than actually finding out. And now we’re here with you confidently telling everyone that the reason millions of German Jews didn’t flee Nazism is because they didn’t know Nazis hated Jews. This exchange really ought to be a wake up call for you. Somehow you’ve made it to this point in your life without noticing that you literally don’t know very much about the world. It might be time to open a book.
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On March 21 2026 18:49 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2026 15:20 EnDeR_ wrote:On March 21 2026 14:09 baal wrote:On March 19 2026 17:08 EnDeR_ wrote:
Happy to include denying the holodomor illegal. Is there a big group of people going around denying that it happened? YES! almost every hard communist and tankie I've talked with denies de holodomor, its a mainstream hard leftist idea, just as its common hard right wingers deny the holocaust. I don't think you can make the equivalence of the hammer and sickle and nazi swastikas; one stands for an ideology about resource distribution, the other stands for white supremacy and antisemitism. It is obviously true that atrocities have been committed under the banner of communism, but the stated intent was never "eradicate the jews" or "purify the white race" for any of these regimes, if you see what I mean. The key difference is intent, even if the outcomes aren't too dissimilar in practice. The stated intent of the Nazi party was never to exterminate the jews, yet they did in secret just like the stated intent of Soviets wasn't to exterminate the Kulaks, yet they did in secret. -When somebody says "eat the rich" they don't actually mean to kill the rich, despise that historically they always have done it, it just means, redistribute. -When a muslim chants in the streets "Khaibar Khaibar ya Yahud" they don't actually mean to massacre the jews like they did in Khaibar, its just a chant of the oppressed against Israel. -When somebody says "seig heil" oh ok that is hate speech, arrest him. That's ridiculous hates speech laws are enforced however the people in power see fit, and as I've said before, there will be a time where the people in power think very different than you and will apply these laws in ways you won't like. Source for the bolded? https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/deceiving-the-publicHitler before 1939 spoke exclusively of expulsion of the jews. Deeper into the war his rhetoric shifter towards total destruction of the jewery in Europe, language vague enough to maintain deniability of genocide intent. I mean, It's pretty obvious, do you think german citizens would vote in a guy that from day one ran a campaing on mass murder of every single jew? That would be a big misconception of how things like the holocaust happen
So, eating the rich, unless it was said by a group of cannibals, doesn't seem particularly relevant here, so going to move on.
- People chanting "Khaibar Khaibar ya Yahud" have been arrested and indicted for hate speech crimes in the UK. Although they didn't seem to have been found ultimately to be guilty. www.jewishnews.co.uk But it is clearly something that is recognised as near enough hate speech to bring to court over it, so what's your point exactly?
- The most recent seig heil incident i could find was www.bbc.com, however, the woman then went on to hit someone, which is why she was sent to jail for 2 weeks (the conviction was for assault, not hate speech). She ended up not paying a fine, so came out a little better than Count Dankula. The point was that she wasn't found guilty of hate speech.
As far as i can see, both incidents went up to court for hate speech and neither got a conviction, so it doesn't feel that different?
To your final point:
Sorry, "total destruction of the jewery in Europe" is vague enough to maintain deniability of genocide intent? I mean, what do the words mean to you?
To wrap this up, the nazis came to be known for their Final Solution. The symbol is tied up to that, which is why it became toxic to the point where Germans still feel national shame about it. It's a point I didn't think I had to make, but nevertheless, here we are.
The hammer and sickle has a much more varied background and it is normally associated with seizing the means of production, not "gassing the jews". This is why, although a bit more edgy nowadays, it isn't a banned symbol.
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Oh look, a supposed free speech advocate who dislikes the purported left leaning nature of the public square has a pet ahistorical conception of how to relate nazis to violent antisemitism. What a coincidence, there’s no way anyone could have predicted this.
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How to Godwin the world while bombing elementary schools: An essay on manipulated timelines and the loss of authority.
How long will this term keep lasting? Are there going to be next candidates and who ? Vance probably, and ?
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On March 21 2026 17:39 Broetchenholer wrote:
The US just lifted sanctions on Iranian oil exports so that they may lower the price of oil. They also argued that by doing so they are beating Iran with their own weapons because they are now lowering the price of oil.
This is just peak comedy.
"In the game of Chess, you can never let your adversary see your pieces." - Zapp Brannigan
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On March 21 2026 23:04 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2026 17:39 Broetchenholer wrote:
The US just lifted sanctions on Iranian oil exports so that they may lower the price of oil. They also argued that by doing so they are beating Iran with their own weapons because they are now lowering the price of oil.
This is just peak comedy. "In the game of Chess, you can never let your adversary see your pieces." - Zapp Brannigan
GDI appears to have a broader NOD infestation.
They like Eastern broads.
Trump and associates too.
I mean, there's probably a reason living in Austria lately has felt like solving a puzzle. And you get little choice in whether you do or not, I don't like that kinda stuff. I'd rather chill with the fam rather than dealing with... Whatever silly game I'm supposed to be playing here.
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On March 22 2026 00:08 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2026 23:04 LightSpectra wrote:On March 21 2026 17:39 Broetchenholer wrote:
The US just lifted sanctions on Iranian oil exports so that they may lower the price of oil. They also argued that by doing so they are beating Iran with their own weapons because they are now lowering the price of oil.
This is just peak comedy. "In the game of Chess, you can never let your adversary see your pieces." - Zapp Brannigan GDI appears to have a broader NOD infestation. They like Eastern broads. Trump and associates too.
I think about Kane from Command & Conquer every time Peter Thiel is in the news. He's currently doing a speaking tour about his theories on the Antichrist.
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On March 22 2026 00:22 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2026 00:08 Vivax wrote:On March 21 2026 23:04 LightSpectra wrote:On March 21 2026 17:39 Broetchenholer wrote:
The US just lifted sanctions on Iranian oil exports so that they may lower the price of oil. They also argued that by doing so they are beating Iran with their own weapons because they are now lowering the price of oil.
This is just peak comedy. "In the game of Chess, you can never let your adversary see your pieces." - Zapp Brannigan GDI appears to have a broader NOD infestation. They like Eastern broads. Trump and associates too. I think about Kane from Command & Conquer every time Peter Thiel is in the news. He's currently doing a speaking tour about his theories on the Antichrist.
People very convinced of their own power are usually afraid of death and can rationalize that fear away by believing they're part of some greater plan, in Thiel's case the plan is to turn as many as possible into glass, while his pal is supposed to shatter them.
Kinda sucks that Austria cooperates with these people. But it's probably by force. Or insurance fraud, that's why they're so tight about it.
They were until I ragebaited the listener of the dark brotherhood. At least it gave them a reason to have a look.
I got curious if anything would happen if I made some online noise.
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On March 21 2026 20:11 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2026 19:08 baal wrote:
If everybody knew do you think so many millions of jews were stupid enough to not leave Germany before the war You're showing your ignorance pretty badly here. A great many did leave Germany. For example you may have heard of Anne Frank. Although the famous Anne Frank house is in Amsterdam she was actually a German Jew, she was born in Frankfurt, her family left in 1934. She wasn't alone, by 1939 the German Jewish population was only 200,000. But they faced problems in leaving. 1. Nazi Germany faced constant and severe deficits in foreign currency which was generally blamed on Jews. That meant German Jews fleeing Germany were not able to obtain foreign currency, the banks simply would not give them currency that could be used outside of Germany. 2. German Jews were subjected to a series of seizures, especially in the wake of Kristallnacht (the Judenvermögensabgabe). They also had gold and jewelry seized. They were deliberately stripped of their assets by the state. 3. Foreign nations refused entry to Jews, especially those without any assets which was a lot of them, as caused by German policy. It was not as simple as fleeing, they had to flee to somewhere. Jewish refugee ships were famously refused docking. 4. Germany wouldn't let them leave. There were movement restrictions. But Anne Frank is a classic example of the problem that you've somehow missed. You literally don't know enough history to even ask the question properly. You ask why "so many millions of jews were stupid enough to not leave Germany"? What millions of Jews? They never existed, the German Jewish population wasn't numbered in millions. You're imagining some bizarre fiction where millions of German Jews forgot to flee because you've somehow forgotten World War 2. The Jews lived in Poland. They lived in Russia. They lived in Romania and the Baltics. They lived in western Europe where many of them had fled to from Germany. Their problem wasn't that they didn't notice that the Nazis hated Jews, it's that the Nazis conquered Europe and the Einsatzgruppen moved directly behind the Wehrmacht and worked closely with them. Anne Frank did flee Germany. It didn't help. The problem with you isn’t that you don’t wonder the answers to things you don’t understand, it’s that after posing the question to yourself you decide to just make up some shit rather than actually finding out. And now we’re here with you confidently telling everyone that the reason millions of German Jews didn’t flee Nazism is because they didn’t know Nazis hated Jews. This exchange really ought to be a wake up call for you. Somehow you’ve made it to this point in your life without noticing that you literally don’t know very much about the world. It might be time to open a book.
before 1935, a substantial % of jews ( and all germans ) thought the whole Nazi thing would blow over.
https://sydneyjewishmuseum.com.au/news/learn-the-history-why-did-jews-not-leave-germany-when-the-nazis-came-to-power/
The majority decided to stay. They believed that the Nazi regime might not remain in power for very long; an illusion also shared by many non-Jews at the time. The belief that a rapid return to democracy would restore the German-Jewish co-existence deterred many from leaving Germany and rebuilding their lives in other countries.
A parallel is all of Trump's psychotic emergency executive orders. Most people are operating as though they'll never become law and they'll disappear with Trump. Most of Canada is playing the waiting game. No new Aluminum Plants are being constructed in the USA. In fact, a big Aluminum plant in California just shut down. Alouette just invested $1.5B into Quebec aluminum production.
https://news.bloombergtax.com/international-trade/rio-tinto-backed-aluminum-firm-to-invest-1-1-billion-in-canada
Hardly any one thinks 50% world wide steel, aluminum, and copper tariffs will be imposed indefinitely. Trump is out of his mind. IF you tariff at all you tariff the end product... not the fundamental building materials. By tariffing the raw materials EVERYTHING manufactured in the USA is more expensive to make and impossible to export because its made with aluminum and steel costing 2.2X the world price.
When someone does something new and bizarre most people don't think it'll stick. Pretty much no one in Canada or the USA thinks these 50% tariffs with stick.
The bizarre moves the German government made in 1934 and 1935 .... who'd bet the government would build on them rather than scrap them?
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On March 21 2026 18:49 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2026 15:20 EnDeR_ wrote:On March 21 2026 14:09 baal wrote:On March 19 2026 17:08 EnDeR_ wrote:
Happy to include denying the holodomor illegal. Is there a big group of people going around denying that it happened? YES! almost every hard communist and tankie I've talked with denies de holodomor, its a mainstream hard leftist idea, just as its common hard right wingers deny the holocaust. I don't think you can make the equivalence of the hammer and sickle and nazi swastikas; one stands for an ideology about resource distribution, the other stands for white supremacy and antisemitism. It is obviously true that atrocities have been committed under the banner of communism, but the stated intent was never "eradicate the jews" or "purify the white race" for any of these regimes, if you see what I mean. The key difference is intent, even if the outcomes aren't too dissimilar in practice. The stated intent of the Nazi party was never to exterminate the jews, yet they did in secret just like the stated intent of Soviets wasn't to exterminate the Kulaks, yet they did in secret. -When somebody says "eat the rich" they don't actually mean to kill the rich, despise that historically they always have done it, it just means, redistribute. -When a muslim chants in the streets "Khaibar Khaibar ya Yahud" they don't actually mean to massacre the jews like they did in Khaibar, its just a chant of the oppressed against Israel. -When somebody says "seig heil" oh ok that is hate speech, arrest him. That's ridiculous hates speech laws are enforced however the people in power see fit, and as I've said before, there will be a time where the people in power think very different than you and will apply these laws in ways you won't like. Source for the bolded? https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/deceiving-the-publicHitler before 1939 spoke exclusively of expulsion of the jews. Deeper into the war his rhetoric shifter towards total destruction of the jewery in Europe, language vague enough to maintain deniability of genocide intent. I mean, It's pretty obvious, do you think german citizens would vote in a guy that from day one ran a campaing on mass murder of every single jew? That would be a big misconception of how things like the holocaust happen On March 21 2026 19:08 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2026 15:37 KwarK wrote:
Yeah, they literally wrote a book about doing it and it's not like Kristallnacht was secret either. If everybody knew do you think so many millions of jews were stupid enough to not leave Germany before the war? Most people didn't know, sure, the ones that read mein kampf, the ones that paid close attention and were smart enough knew, and many fled. The soviets did the same thing, Stalin publicly promised "the elimination of the kulak class" and everybody cheered, most didn't know they were going to get killed. You'll note how the original question, the replied and bolded "The stated intent of the Nazi party was never to exterminate the jews ... yet they did in secret" was summarily dropped. The goalposts moved to, "Was there any violence" and "Let's count emigration" and "Was there violent antisemitism." So you can tell broad agreement with the claim by how quickly it was silently accepted and changed. The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum online resources are right about it, for those that clicked your link. The lies were to conceal what they were doing, and not totally ineffective because they had told everyone exactly what they planned to do from the start.
You get fuzzy later, since forced transfer or children/prevention of births can be considered "genocide." It's not just about murdering an ethnic/religious minority.
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This entire conversation about Nazi intentions towards Jews is completely pointless. Even before the death camps, the inverted swastika was already a political symbol of white supremacism, ultra-nationalism, violent expansionism, and so on. It has no benevolent meaning. There is no possible good faith interpretation of someone flying a Nazi flag or tattooing themselves with swastikas.
"But if we ban hate symbols, then eventually a malevolent government could use similar laws to censor good things" is still meritless because malevolent governments literally don't care about precedent, they're going to try to censor their opponents regardless of preexisting laws against Holocaust denial or flying Nazi flags. In fact, it being unprecedented is probably even better for the malevolent government party because they delight in breaking norms and traditions to prove how strong and radical they are.
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Canada11607 Posts
On March 21 2026 16:40 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2026 15:14 Falling wrote:
Why would Japan get to know?
Well, we are assuming a world in which Trump and friends actually wanted a country like Japan to join them in Iran. Then they should probably know in advance so they can move military assets over in a timely manner. And maybe stock up in preparation for oil shortages.
But if the US doesn't want allies to join, then they should just carry on as they are by springing random wars around the world and vague-post on social media, complaining that no one is joining your party but failing to ever make a formal invite. You can join a party after it starts, most people do actually except for the one who started it, that analogy was not ideally chosen. The US certainly wasn't in WW2 from the beginning of the party. You could also move military assets without knowing the exact plan, as the US and its moving assets did, simply trusting the plan without knowing it. So sure the US could say "Hey Japan move your aircraft-carrier-but-not-really-wink to the Persian Gulf" before hostilities started. However, then we have gone in a rhetorical circle. The US did ask the UK, its parent and maybe 4th? oldest ally? to use UK bases before the war began. Surely easier and requires less work than moving any assets. Didn't work. So yeah not telling Japan is right for people who have any notion of the value of the element of surprise.
Sure, I guess Trump can fight a war in Iran for two years and after which hope their allies get Pearl Harboured by some ally of Iran? Then again, why join in a war that is always just about to end?
Trump says he is considering 'winding down' Iran war Could be over by the time you get there as it is 'very complete'?
But WWII is a bad example because war was coming to Europe whether they wanted it or not: either they fought the Nazis or they were annexed and occupied by the Nazis.
Better comparables would Iraq, Libya, or heck the Suez-Crisis if Britain decided to go in without letting France know and just expected them to show up. You don't have to let people know in such offensive wars but the ones you are not informing, you can't be too mad if they don't show up and maybe even actively oppose your war (like Britain and France not informing the US).
And sure, if the UK wasn't joining Japan certainly wasn't. (Even supporting Ukraine with war material was a significant change in stance.) So then if the fourth oldest ally isn't joining, do you think Trump is good at managing America's alliances?
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In other news, Wiktoff said he asked and Putin swears they are not sharing intel with Iran and you can trust Putin.
Trump said it was a stupid question to ask.
And US is helping sell Russian oil.
Putin, however, offers to stop providing intel for Iran if US will stop providing intel for Ukraine.
https://www.politico.eu/article/putin-offers-stop-intel-iran-condition-us-cuts-off-ukraine/
Dmitriev calls it Fake and we know we can trust him and the White House declined to comment.
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EPT
