EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 5341
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5158 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23948 Posts
Doesn't work as well in text, but here's a basic transcript of the important bit+ Show Spoiler + I'll tell you a story... once me and my conservative friend we were walking down the street in New York City in front of us was walking a woman in very high heels. As far as I could tell she was trans. Now at some point this woman, she tripped on her right heel, she fell into the street right as a bus was approaching! My conservative friend ran into the street scooped her up just in the nick of time, helped her on her feet, sent her about her way, and then he turned to me and was like "that's why men shouldn't wear heels!" it was a lot of things all at once, and I want to be clear I think there a shitty thing to do, but if I had been alone I would have been like oh no........ she's dead You can't understand it unless you can understand why someone would vote for the conservative friend over the comedian based on the scenario described. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8257 Posts
On November 05 2025 04:27 GreenHorizons wrote: I think this comedian does a good job of capturing the essence of what actually makes someone want to vote Republican over Democrat. https://youtu.be/SwpW4rEzNGM?si=RmzclnJ-W7Vpz02O&t=757 You can't understand it unless you can understand why someone would vote for the conservative friend over the comedian based on the scenario described. Ok, but why are we acting like Trump is that conservative friend, and not the guy who would let the trans woman die and then loudly proclaim she deserved it, while simultaneously starting a trade war with the literal entierty of the world? | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia1384 Posts
It's not something they are willing to discuss or internalize, they will chew your ear (or eyes I guess) off going into minutia of specific bills or what Obama said in 2014 but are absolutely unwilling to give any scrutiny to the objectively unprecedented shit that is happening at the moment. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23948 Posts
On November 05 2025 04:46 Jankisa wrote: Yeah, but you will notice that despite this conundrum, the one of "can you please just for once stop being so myopic and tribal and criticize your side for once" being brought up so, so many times in this thread the resident right wingers will just disappear or change the subject. It's not something they are willing to discuss or internalize, they will chew your ear (or eyes I guess) off going into minutia of specific bills or what Obama said in 2014 but are absolutely unwilling to give any scrutiny to the objectively unprecedented shit that is happening at the moment. To what end? Which of their goals do you believe it would help them achieve more effectively than not doing so does? | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28797 Posts
On November 05 2025 03:04 WombaT wrote: Oddly enough I was initially going to include that exact analogy in my last post haha haha I thought about it too, before reading Kwark's post, along the lines of 'I mean I can get behind my team diving once to win an important trophy, but if they keep diving all the time I'm gonna stop supporting them'. That said if you're a fascist then the analogy doesn't work out because you don't give a shit about preserving the legitimacy of the league or democracy or political institutions and if you're constantly fighting an existential battle then the only thing that matters is that you keep winning. | ||
KwarK
United States43987 Posts
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Jankisa
Croatia1384 Posts
On November 05 2025 05:05 GreenHorizons wrote: To what end? Which of their goals do you believe it would help them achieve more effectively than not doing so does? I don't know, how about because this is an internet forum and we are all relatively normal people who are capable of self reflection and thinking, so I would except that these people who are obviously relatively well informed, have been paying attention to politics and at least somewhat care about the future of their country and the world might find it in themselves to actually, at least once, at least a little bit take the time and say fuck these policies, this is scary, this goes against the constitution, the founders, whatever. I don't even care what their underlining motivation for doing that might be, fuck, man, even if it's "we should criticize and resist this so the next Democratic regime can't do this shit to us" would be good. That would maybe give me hope that this is possible on a larger, societal level and the future might not be as bleak and shitty as it's looking right now. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26785 Posts
On November 05 2025 05:11 Liquid`Drone wrote: haha I thought about it too, before reading Kwark's post, along the lines of 'I mean I can get behind my team diving once to win an important trophy, but if they keep diving all the time I'm gonna stop supporting them'. I wasn’t specifically going to with with that exact angle, I was gonna go with your big rival going bankrupt or being very diminished and how you’d approach that in that context :p The myopic fan welcomes it, the person who values the whole tapestry doesn’t. Conservatives may be my political rival as it were, but there are many of em around. I’d rather win on the pitch than have Conservative FC as it were go insolvent. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23948 Posts
On November 05 2025 05:39 Jankisa wrote: I don't know, how about because this is an internet forum and we are all relatively normal people who are capable of self reflection and thinking, so I would except that these people who are obviously relatively well informed, have been paying attention to politics and at least somewhat care about the future of their country and the world might find it in themselves to actually, at least once, at least a little bit take the time and say fuck these policies, this is scary, this goes against the constitution, the founders, whatever. I don't even care what their underlining motivation for doing that might be, fuck, man, even if it's "we should criticize and resist this so the next Democratic regime can't do this shit to us" would be good. That would maybe give me hope that this is possible on a larger, societal level and the future might not be as bleak and shitty as it's looking right now. Drone's response pretty much sums up my thoughts. On November 05 2025 05:11 Liquid`Drone wrote: + Show Spoiler + haha I thought about it too, before reading Kwark's post, along the lines of 'I mean I can get behind my team diving once to win an important trophy, but if they keep diving all the time I'm gonna stop supporting them'. That said if you're a fascist then the analogy doesn't work out because you don't give a shit about preserving the legitimacy of the league or democracy or political institutions and if you're constantly fighting an existential battle then the only thing that matters is that you keep winning. They're in an existential fight for white supremacist capitalist hegemony and they don't see anything to be gained from giving you that comfort. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45915 Posts
NJ closes in a few minutes: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2025-elections/new-jersey-governor-results NYC closes in about an hour: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2025-elections/new-york-city-mayor-results | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32747 Posts
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Introvert
United States4951 Posts
On November 05 2025 00:37 Billyboy wrote: It is insane to watch from the outside. The hope is that at some point the not stupid Republicans will go "Holy shit it is an embarrassment and absolutely terrible for our country that we have a compulsive lying, dumb, narcissistic, nepo baby who openly takes bribes leading out party, this is bad thing." Hell you do not even need to vote Dem, you could just join the Republicans and against Trump and try to pry your party out of the stupidest era. I can not understand how you Americans treat politics like team sports and support your parties guy no matter how clearly incompetent he is. It is also incredibly stupid that what is "winning" to people seems to be beating the other party and not making the country better. Your country is on the fast track to becoming a shit hole and you are there cheering for it because you get to beat the dems. It is so painful to watch. Hard as it may be for you to believe, I do on the whole think Republican policy positions are better for the country than Democrat ones. You have no idea what I say to people on "my side" since there aren't any of them here. It is interesting how you and many other posters continue to think this is just about making sure "my team" wins, as if I couldn't have good reasons for preferring it. You'd hope that people who spend hours upon hours lecturing GH on being a team player might grasp this but I guess it's too complicated. On November 05 2025 02:42 WombaT wrote: I mean, trying might help? In a more generalised sense. Many people want their ‘team’ to win, of course. If one is losing though, so long as the game is played in the right spirit, as it were that goes a distance. Outside these particular walls, sure it might be different. Within them, I would wager that getting Republicans to go ‘GOP’ bad isn’t a particular aspiration. It would be conservatives having their own red lines, and acting accordingly. Something like that anyway, some self-regulation. I mean I must have made similar posts on this theme at least 10 times prior. So expanding much is a bit redundant. You can collectively do that, and have a slightly more civil wider discourse, or not. Wider conservatism can’t have civil discourse with those who disagree with that creed if it reflexively defends everything the God King does, even the stuff that contravenes their ostensible principles. The natural conclusion becomes that conservatives don’t care about stated principles when it suits, so why should I care when they’re invoked against something I want? Or indeed just want to be ruled by a belligerent Orange King (us Norn Irish can understand the appeal) It’s not necessarily about building bridges across the aisle, it’s that self-policing exists internally. The wider left aren’t exactly great at the former either. But they do tend to criticise their own more. As I said recently, I don't see the need to spent so much time trashing Trump around here for a few reasons. First, there's no one to actually have a discussion with. Yes, tariffs are bad. Glad we agree! Now what? Second, I recall having this conversation every so often, including with you. But then I watch people support murder in public, or voting for a man who fantasized about wanting his opponents children shot, and I realize there isn't really that much to discuss. The pushback on those posts is incredibly limited. You've given me crap before for not criticizing Trump more and then when someone is gunned down in the street you shrugged. The level of self-debasement I'd have to put myself through to appeal to such people is not worth it. And finally, as I said above, I still think that yes, Democrats are worse on basically every metric imaginable. Why I would focus on orange man bad to appease a bunch of murder fanatics who believe all their opponents are closet fascists is going to have to be explained. | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
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Vivax
22317 Posts
One side tries to murder anything that remotely looks like a fascist while the other, anything that looks like a cartel/gang member. But hey, at least they‘re from foreign countries /s. It‘s like reliving the street fights between communists and fascists in pre-fascism Austria before Dollfuss. And yeh, the fascists won in the end. Probably because of better organization and militancy. The US corporate beast is never going to support a side that tries to redistribute wealth or fosters social security. They‘ll bonk tf out of everyone resisting. | ||
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Billyboy
1719 Posts
On November 05 2025 10:03 Introvert wrote: Hard as it may be for you to believe, I do on the whole think Republican policy positions are better for the country than Democrat ones. You have no idea what I say to people on "my side" since there aren't any of them here. It is interesting how you and many other posters continue to think this is just about making sure "my team" wins, as if I couldn't have good reasons for preferring it. You'd hope that people who spend hours upon hours lecturing GH on being a team player might grasp this but I guess it's too complicated. + Show Spoiler + On November 05 2025 02:42 WombaT wrote: I mean, trying might help? In a more generalised sense. Many people want their ‘team’ to win, of course. If one is losing though, so long as the game is played in the right spirit, as it were that goes a distance. Outside these particular walls, sure it might be different. Within them, I would wager that getting Republicans to go ‘GOP’ bad isn’t a particular aspiration. It would be conservatives having their own red lines, and acting accordingly. Something like that anyway, some self-regulation. I mean I must have made similar posts on this theme at least 10 times prior. So expanding much is a bit redundant. You can collectively do that, and have a slightly more civil wider discourse, or not. Wider conservatism can’t have civil discourse with those who disagree with that creed if it reflexively defends everything the God King does, even the stuff that contravenes their ostensible principles. The natural conclusion becomes that conservatives don’t care about stated principles when it suits, so why should I care when they’re invoked against something I want? Or indeed just want to be ruled by a belligerent Orange King (us Norn Irish can understand the appeal) It’s not necessarily about building bridges across the aisle, it’s that self-policing exists internally. The wider left aren’t exactly great at the former either. But they do tend to criticise their own more. As I said recently, I don't see the need to spent so much time trashing Trump around here for a few reasons. First, there's no one to actually have a discussion with. Yes, tariffs are bad. Glad we agree! Now what? Second, I recall having this conversation every so often, including with you. But then I watch people support murder in public, or voting for a man who fantasized about wanting his opponents children shot, and I realize there isn't really that much to discuss. The pushback on those posts is incredibly limited. You've given me crap before for not criticizing Trump more and then when someone is gunned down in the street you shrugged. The level of self-debasement I'd have to put myself through to appeal to such people is not worth it. And finally, as I said above, I still think that yes, Democrats are worse on basically every metric imaginable. Why I would focus on orange man bad to appease a bunch of murder fanatics who believe all their opponents are closet fascists is going to have to be explained. I actually do get it, I like in a 95% conservative place, but still most of them think Trump is a moron. My point, which I stated already, is not that you vote Dem. But you should be like, we need to get this moron off the top of our ticket and stop running our country. I can't believe that you honestly think a guy who doesn't understand percentages is the right guy to broker trade deals. Especially when it is clear that he is making them based on who sucks up the most. I can barely believe you want tariffs, since no fiscal conservative I have ever met thought they were a good idea before Trump started talking about them. But that aside, this guy is the one who is going to use them properly to make America stronger? The reason the Ontario ad pissed him off so much was because it is true and many Republicans love Reagan. That was a conservative government who made them as well. Like I get you want something done about immigration, and something dramatic. But do you know how much this is costing? And how much it is actually working? Are you even getting more out than in? You are going to trust this guy to tell you real information? When he just flat lies about inflation (I mean everything always), but what he says about how the immigration is going is true? Like are you really that gullible? You can not trust any of the information this government spews, it is all to make them look good and they don't even bother hiding it and you cheer them for tricking you. It's lunacy. If a Dem accepted a multi hundred million dollar plane from a foreign government would you be OK with it? Of course not because you know that there are strings attached and those strings are not in Americas interest, they are in the other country who gave the bribe. But Trump taking them is good? He is taking tons! Maybe you think bailing out Argentina is a good deal after you gift wrapped them all of China Soy bean sales, for reasons. But I can't imagine you think doing it again and then buying a whole shit ton of their cattle to fuck your own farmers was good? Are you a protectionist with tariffs or what? So many were for Trump because he would not tart wars, was a man of peace. How is that working out? What is going on with Venezuela? WTF is that costing? No where near any sort of ROI on the tiny couple of drug boats they sunk. Hows that blanced budget coming? What I'm getting at, and there is way more examples, is that Trump is a populist liar. He has told you he is a conservative and you believed it. He is clearly not one, and only interested in attention and wealth for himself. He is comically stupid, and the lies are not remotely smart and change by the week. The ask isn't that you vote Dem, or become a socialist. It is that you be a conservative, hold those values and hold your own party accountable. Not be a useful idiot for the MAGA ideocracy because they wear your jersey. That is actually exactly the same thing that was asked of GH. Stop pretending that Maduro is actually fighting capitalists from his billion dollar palace. Start actually trying to make the Dem party better. Hasn't "primary the bad dems" been said to him 1000 times. There is no irony, just logical consistency. You might not be used to that given that what Trump tells you is good changes by the week. edit: Also to your comment to wombat. How often were people called fascists before Trump? Could it not be possible (even likely) that people do not think that conservatives are fascists, but rather they the think Trump and his group are fascists? Have you even bothered to read what a fascist is and does? It is Trump, he hits like almost every point. + Show Spoiler + 1. Powerful, often exclusionary, populist nationalism centered on cult of a redemptive, “infallible” leader who never admits mistakes. 2. Political power derived from questioning reality, endorsing myth and rage, and promoting lies. 3. Fixation with perceived national decline, humiliation, or victimhood. 4. White Replacement “Theory” used to show that democratic ideals of freedom and equality are a threat. Oppose any initiatives or institutions that are racially, ethnically, or religiously harmonious. 5. Disdain for human rights while seeking purity and cleansing for those they define as part of the nation. 6. Identification of “enemies”/scapegoats as a unifying cause. Imprison and/or murder opposition and minority group leaders. 7. Supremacy of the military and embrace of paramilitarism in an uneasy, but effective collaboration with traditional elites. Fascists arm people and justify and glorify violence as “redemptive”. 8. Rampant sexism. 9. Control of mass media and undermining “truth”. 10. Obsession with national security, crime and punishment, and fostering a sense of the nation under attack. 11. Religion and government are intertwined. 12. Corporate power is protected and labor power is suppressed. 13. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts not aligned with the fascist narrative. 14. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Loyalty to the leader is paramount and often more important than competence. 15. Fraudulent elections and creation of a one-party state. 16. Often seeking to expand territory through armed conflict. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26785 Posts
On November 05 2025 10:03 Introvert wrote: Hard as it may be for you to believe, I do on the whole think Republican policy positions are better for the country than Democrat ones. You have no idea what I say to people on "my side" since there aren't any of them here. It is interesting how you and many other posters continue to think this is just about making sure "my team" wins, as if I couldn't have good reasons for preferring it. You'd hope that people who spend hours upon hours lecturing GH on being a team player might grasp this but I guess it's too complicated. As I said recently, I don't see the need to spent so much time trashing Trump around here for a few reasons. First, there's no one to actually have a discussion with. Yes, tariffs are bad. Glad we agree! Now what? Second, I recall having this conversation every so often, including with you. But then I watch people support murder in public, or voting for a man who fantasized about wanting his opponents children shot, and I realize there isn't really that much to discuss. The pushback on those posts is incredibly limited. You've given me crap before for not criticizing Trump more and then when someone is gunned down in the street you shrugged. The level of self-debasement I'd have to put myself through to appeal to such people is not worth it. And finally, as I said above, I still think that yes, Democrats are worse on basically every metric imaginable. Why I would focus on orange man bad to appease a bunch of murder fanatics who believe all their opponents are closet fascists is going to have to be explained. So what? Why does any of that matter? Trump being a complete disgrace of a President can co-exist with those criticisms of other actors. One can also be a conservative while not supporting Trump, it’s emminently possible, indeed I’d argue that Trump is that divorced from general conservative principles that it should be the default. You’re supposed to have principles. Me not giving much of a shit that Charlie Kirk got shot shouldn’t upset the applecart too much. But your cohort evidently doesn’t, so who cares? It’s a battle now, and next time it swings the other way your lot is fucked. Nobody is going to care about catering to the desires of decent conservatives if they’ve spent a cumulative 8 years sucking Donald Trump off and hand waving everything. | ||
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Introvert
United States4951 Posts
On November 05 2025 10:44 Billyboy wrote: I actually do get it, I like in a 95% conservative place, but still most of them think Trump is a moron. My point, which I stated already, is not that you vote Dem. But you should be like, we need to get this moron off the top of our ticket and stop running our country. I can't believe that you honestly think a guy who doesn't understand percentages is the right guy to broker trade deals. Especially when it is clear that he is making them based on who sucks up the most. I can barely believe you want tariffs, since no fiscal conservative I have ever met thought they were a good idea before Trump started talking about them. But that aside, this guy is the one who is going to use them properly to make America stronger? The reason the Ontario ad pissed him off so much was because it is true and many Republicans love Reagan. That was a conservative government who made them as well. Like I get you want something done about immigration, and something dramatic. But do you know how much this is costing? And how much it is actually working? Are you even getting more out than in? You are going to trust this guy to tell you real information? When he just flat lies about inflation (I mean everything always), but what he says about how the immigration is going is true? Like are you really that gullible? You can not trust any of the information this government spews, it is all to make them look good and they don't even bother hiding it and you cheer them for tricking you. It's lunacy. If a Dem accepted a multi hundred million dollar plane from a foreign government would you be OK with it? Of course not because you know that there are strings attached and those strings are not in Americas interest, they are in the other country who gave the bribe. But Trump taking them is good? He is taking tons! Maybe you think bailing out Argentina is a good deal after you gift wrapped them all of China Soy bean sales, for reasons. But I can't imagine you think doing it again and then buying a whole shit ton of their cattle to fuck your own farmers was good? Are you a protectionist with tariffs or what? So many were for Trump because he would not tart wars, was a man of peace. How is that working out? What is going on with Venezuela? WTF is that costing? No where near any sort of ROI on the tiny couple of drug boats they sunk. Hows that blanced budget coming? What I'm getting at, and there is way more examples, is that Trump is a populist liar. He has told you he is a conservative and you believed it. He is clearly not one, and only interested in attention and wealth for himself. He is comically stupid, and the lies are not remotely smart and change by the week. The ask isn't that you vote Dem, or become a socialist. It is that you be a conservative, hold those values and hold your own party accountable. Not be a useful idiot for the MAGA ideocracy because they wear your jersey. That is actually exactly the same thing that was asked of GH. Stop pretending that Maduro is actually fighting capitalists from his billion dollar palace. Start actually trying to make the Dem party better. Hasn't "primary the bad dems" been said to him 1000 times. There is no irony, just logical consistency. You might not be used to that given that what Trump tells you is good changes by the week. edit: Also to your comment to wombat. How often were people called fascists before Trump? Could it not be possible (even likely) that people do not think that conservatives are fascists, but rather they the think Trump and his group are fascists? Have you even bothered to read what a fascist is and does? It is Trump, he hits like almost every point. + Show Spoiler + 1. Powerful, often exclusionary, populist nationalism centered on cult of a redemptive, “infallible” leader who never admits mistakes. 2. Political power derived from questioning reality, endorsing myth and rage, and promoting lies. 3. Fixation with perceived national decline, humiliation, or victimhood. 4. White Replacement “Theory” used to show that democratic ideals of freedom and equality are a threat. Oppose any initiatives or institutions that are racially, ethnically, or religiously harmonious. 5. Disdain for human rights while seeking purity and cleansing for those they define as part of the nation. 6. Identification of “enemies”/scapegoats as a unifying cause. Imprison and/or murder opposition and minority group leaders. 7. Supremacy of the military and embrace of paramilitarism in an uneasy, but effective collaboration with traditional elites. Fascists arm people and justify and glorify violence as “redemptive”. 8. Rampant sexism. 9. Control of mass media and undermining “truth”. 10. Obsession with national security, crime and punishment, and fostering a sense of the nation under attack. 11. Religion and government are intertwined. 12. Corporate power is protected and labor power is suppressed. 13. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts not aligned with the fascist narrative. 14. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Loyalty to the leader is paramount and often more important than competence. 15. Fraudulent elections and creation of a one-party state. 16. Often seeking to expand territory through armed conflict. Well I didn't vote for him so I did my part to "get him off the ticket" if that's what you want. Again, you have no idea what is said elsewhere. I have repeatedly said the tariffs are bad, I think they are actually his biggest mistake so far. They a counter-productive at home and they make rallying our allies against adversaries that much more difficult. I wouldn't even tarriff the Europeans! There are other ways of getting them to pay for their own defense. What's happening with immigration is the natural counter reaction. You have to have rules, and Biden spent four years ignoring them, and now enforcing them is going to hurt. It's always a tough question of how strictly to you start enforcing rules once a pattern of breaking them has emerged. and now some people who previously wouldn't have been deported now will be. probably should have considered that when dems spent years denying there was even anything wrong. Of course Trump shouldn't accept the plane. I don't mind helping Argentina. Trump's foreign policy has been his best aspect so far (tariffs excluded). Dem weak FP as usual is awful. You seem to be attributing to me a lot of positions I have never offered about Trump? Like again, no Trump doesn't care about a balanced budget, but if dems got their way they'd blow everything out as their projected tax revenue never lived up to expectations, and it would be used to support tons of government growth that I fundamentally disagree with. Again, and I know you have a special hatred for GH, but you have to realize I am thinking in similar terms. Yes, Trump sucks. Yes, I wish it were a different Republican. No, banging on about it here does nothing. Which leads to... On November 05 2025 10:46 WombaT wrote: So what? Why does any of that matter? Trump being a complete disgrace of a President can co-exist with those criticisms of other actors. One can also be a conservative while not supporting Trump, it’s emminently possible, indeed I’d argue that Trump is that divorced from general conservative principles that it should be the default. You’re supposed to have principles. Me not giving much of a shit that Charlie Kirk got shot shouldn’t upset the applecart too much. But your cohort evidently doesn’t, so who cares? It’s a battle now, and next time it swings the other way your lot is fucked. Nobody is going to care about catering to the desires of decent conservatives if they’ve spent a cumulative 8 years sucking Donald Trump off and hand waving everything. You used to say that I should criticize Trump more because it would show that I was being serious and arguing in good faith (paraphrase). Why I am supposed to assume good faith on the part of people who support all the things I mentioned above. Why am I supposed to assume good faith on your part when you are more harsh on me for not criticizing Trump than you are yourself in criticizing those on the left who expound awful views? Is that not what you requested of me? Are you getting the point yet? In a thread where the median opinion is that Donald Trump is a fascist who will try to serve a third term as president I'm supposed to take the same or more time criticizing him instead of that nutty belief itself. It's a silly thing to ask for from the one conservative in the thread. I have criticized him a lot over the years, all it got was demands that I do it more. meanwhile, people here have lost their minds. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8744 Posts
woke is so back. Election Day live updates: Spanberger is elected Va. governor and Sherrill is elected N.J. governor, NBC News projects + Mamdani sweeped it. | ||
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