|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On September 20 2025 01:59 decafchicken wrote:Man this onion article is so on the nose for democrats and this thread Show nested quote +Admitting that they had been working for several years without any discernible success, FBI agents confirmed Wednesday that a local left-wing political group was too disorganized to infiltrate. “We’ve had a few guys in there posing as members and trying to manipulate them into committing acts of violence we can arrest them for, but these people don’t ever do anything violent—they don’t ever do anything at all,” an undercover FBI agent told reporters, adding that the agency believed they’d made headway with turning the leader of the Liberation Socialists group into an informant until the guy didn’t show up to a meeting for months.
“These people are incredibly disorganized. We try to attend their meetings to get them to unwittingly work on our behalf, but half the time no one shows up but the undercover agents, and the other half of the time the meetings are so confusing it’s impossible to follow what they’re actually trying to do. We also tried to sow division in their ranks to ensure that they couldn’t become powerful, but that didn’t work because these people already all fucking hate each other. They spend all their time arguing about minutiae, and most of the time when we try to talk them into doing something violent to the communal spaces in their community, they don’t even know where to go. They’re just a mess.” The FBI agent added that he was worried the left-wing organization was on to him, as he’d already aroused suspicion by interrupting a meandering discussion of principles with a straightforward plan of action.
What makes this joke even funnier is that some leftists think it isn't funny or accurate because the people they're feuding with aren't true leftists.
Disco Elysium has a similar joke. There's a sidequest for each ideology the PC can align with (fascism, liberalism [moralism], right-libertarianism [ultraliberalism], communism). The communist sidequest involves going to a book club, you get the best results by outsnobbing the regulars via strong opinions about the assigned literature.
On September 20 2025 02:10 Billyboy wrote:
Remember when GH was genuinely pointing out that the problem with the Dems was that their language was too aggressive. Bad dems Bad is all he's got, trying to reason with him is futile, he's all the way down the rabbit hole.
I strongly suspect they're either a conservative (they said they wanted Obamacare repealed) or a very bored apolitical person. Though on reflection, maybe it's just because I find it too sad to imagine someone that let fascism take over their country so they could have the moral highground in Internet arguments, and still fail at even that.
|
United States42982 Posts
It’s a very old trope. Monty Python’s Life of Brian had ineffectual infighting revolutionary leftists who kept splitting and identified each other as the real enemy while arguing endlessly over messaging as a running joke.
|
Northern Ireland25698 Posts
On September 19 2025 22:56 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 19:12 KT_Elwood wrote:
Fascism needs to antagonize outside groups. It contradicts the narrative that somebody who "has it all" - is white, gunloving and churchgoing - to suddenly take up a gun and shoot somebody who is preaching the fascism.
Meanwhile Wombat has Kirk in top 4 of his celebrated deaths Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 04:43 WombaT wrote:
I’d put Charlie Kirk in my top 4 celebrated deaths.
Jankisa also has him somewhere on his list: Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 05:42 Jankisa wrote:
Personally, for me Kirk doesn't really rank that high, I'd definitely have Rush above him. I dont think they ever even meet the guy. It doesant even matter if guy was leftist (which I would say is 9 out of 10 chance he was). What matter, is that left endorsed it en masse. It doesnt matter what Democrat leading figures did, what matters is that Democrats are party of those people. Show nested quote +On September 18 2025 02:22 Mohdoo wrote:On September 17 2025 22:19 KT_Elwood wrote:I find the sentiment "He can't be right wing, if he was in love with a transperson". hilarious. On September 17 2025 21:50 Magic Powers wrote:
....
That means it was an assassination based on Kirk's expression of political views.
But as you correctly point out that doesn't imply TR was either left or right. He may've chosen Kirk as his target based on the demographics Kirk expressed hatred for, and not based on the ideology Kirk represented.
....
You got it. Expressing hatred based on Religion/Race/Gender/Sexual orientation is not expressing a political view. That's just being a threat to other people's existence. Americans and especially right-wing people in my mind have a rather narrow approach to combat existencial threats. (Hint: It's always involving guns!) I think this conversation is not handled responsibly when its between left/right wing people disagreeing. We all agree there are times when people should die for their political beliefs. We may not agree a specific person had sufficiently wrong beliefs to be killed, but WW2 was totally about "political beliefs". Show nested quote +On September 18 2025 03:57 Phyanketto wrote:On September 18 2025 02:22 Mohdoo wrote:
I think this conversation is not handled responsibly when its between left/right wing people disagreeing. We all agree there are times when people should die for their political beliefs. We may not agree a specific person had sufficiently wrong beliefs to be killed, but WW2 was totally about "political beliefs". Agreed, the vitriol has become too much, but one side is broadly armed and in control of government, and openly flaunting the constitution and established legal precedent. This was released the other day, and while I am loathe to speculate, this would appear to be the exact sort of thing the right is calling for. Attacking someone's beliefs is not the same thing as attacking someone's personhood or safety, which is basically what the more extreme (platformed) arm of the right is doing. The very fact that they can advocate things like that and this should be terrifying to everyone who cares about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I fully realize that those 'rappers' are just individuals, but at the same time, so was Tyler Robinson. The response on the right has not been about individuals, it has been collectivist and identity-based, which is ironically the thing they claim to hate most. They seem to be happy to sacrifice whole groups and their identity as freedom-loving Americans to sate their bloodlust. Seems like people here have 0 self awareness. Show nested quote +On September 18 2025 22:21 Uldridge wrote:
I don't have the brainpower to combat a mentally deranged group of people that deny reality. They stoke the flames while gaslighting at the same time.
You just described this entire thread.
To clarify, I was listing the deaths that in my limited human experience that I observed were the most celebrated, as a counter point to people claiming folks weren’t really celebrating Kirk’s death. Not deaths I celebrated the most
|
We've passed the 40th page of this thread of conservatives still weeping blood because the left have given more respect to Charlie Kirk than he and his fans gave to George Floyd, Trayvon Martin, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Breonna Taylor, school shooting victims, etc.
|
On September 20 2025 01:49 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2025 01:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 01:32 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:51 LightSpectra wrote:On September 20 2025 00:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:49 LightSpectra wrote:
Ah, there's the GH "Dems bad, please bro, do anything but vote Dems bro, I promise bro everything will be okay if we just let Republicans win one more election bro" post. Right on schedule. You guys skip right past expecting your politicians to represent your interests (or you know, not engage in genocide) to "we should let Republicans win". Worse than being pathetic, it's dysfunctional to a democratic society. Kamala Harris did represent my interests when she called for a ceasefire three times over the course of 2024. But Trump won and you got what you wanted, right? Biden called for plenty of ceasefires too right? They were still aiding and abetting genocide though weren't they? It wasn't for votes. It wasn't even a popular position (question 52 pg. 7). Yet Harris made it abundantly clear she was going to ignore her voters and continue aiding and abetting genocide anyway. When you're knowingly/willingly voting for people you know are aiding and abetting genocide (against popular opinion) you've lost the plot on the ostensible point of having a "western democratic society". When you turn and cast aspersions against those that wouldn't support genocide, you've lost the plot on your own humanity. Is that literally your only talking point though? Of course not (you know that). That the ostensible "opposition party" to Trump still can't even unify over opposing genocide aided and abetted by Trump's administration doesn't bode well for trans people (or the procession of people Democrats will feed to the wolves in an ultimately hopeless attempt to keep themselves safe) though. Everyone is aiding and abetting the Trump admin because all the politicians are afraid of the big bad bully and ultimately only serve in their own self interest, until proven otherwise. I'll be extremely eye brow raised and pleasantly surprised if we actually have some real pushback for once, not like some Newsom bloviation with some huffin' and puffin' that they'll gerrymander the fuck out of California.
It's painfully ironic to have someone posting "How the Nazis Targeted Transgender People" while they and others are proudly speedrunning the 21st century US version of the Niemöller quote during an ongoing genocide.
You'll see pushback, but it'll be aimed at anyone that doesn't want to vote for the kind of bloviating assholes that steal/destroy unhoused people's things for a publicity stunt, aid and abet genocide, throw trans people, immigrants, and others to the fascists in the name of being "pragmatic", "civil", "democratic" "lesser evilism", etc. Hell, they'll even try to paint it like they're doing people a favor by only sacrificing some of us in their "compromise" with the fascists.
|
IDK LS, most of the stuff i've seen in here is people trying to deconstruct the problem(s) that led us to this point and where we go from here. Only 1-2 people being performatively aggrieved
|
On September 20 2025 03:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2025 01:49 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 01:32 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:51 LightSpectra wrote:On September 20 2025 00:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:49 LightSpectra wrote:
Ah, there's the GH "Dems bad, please bro, do anything but vote Dems bro, I promise bro everything will be okay if we just let Republicans win one more election bro" post. Right on schedule. You guys skip right past expecting your politicians to represent your interests (or you know, not engage in genocide) to "we should let Republicans win". Worse than being pathetic, it's dysfunctional to a democratic society. Kamala Harris did represent my interests when she called for a ceasefire three times over the course of 2024. But Trump won and you got what you wanted, right? Biden called for plenty of ceasefires too right? They were still aiding and abetting genocide though weren't they? It wasn't for votes. It wasn't even a popular position (question 52 pg. 7). Yet Harris made it abundantly clear she was going to ignore her voters and continue aiding and abetting genocide anyway. When you're knowingly/willingly voting for people you know are aiding and abetting genocide (against popular opinion) you've lost the plot on the ostensible point of having a "western democratic society". When you turn and cast aspersions against those that wouldn't support genocide, you've lost the plot on your own humanity. Is that literally your only talking point though? Of course not (you know that). That the ostensible "opposition party" to Trump still can't even unify over opposing genocide aided and abetted by Trump's administration doesn't bode well for trans people (or the procession of people Democrats will feed to the wolves in an ultimately hopeless attempt to keep themselves safe) though. Everyone is aiding and abetting the Trump admin because all the politicians are afraid of the big bad bully and ultimately only serve in their own self interest, until proven otherwise. I'll be extremely eye brow raised and pleasantly surprised if we actually have some real pushback for once, not like some Newsom bloviation with some huffin' and puffin' that they'll gerrymander the fuck out of California. It's painfully ironic to have someone posting "How the Nazis Targeted Transgender People" while they and others are proudly speedrunning the 21st century US version of the Niemöller quote during an ongoing genocide. You'll see pushback, but it'll be aimed at anyone that doesn't want to vote for the kind of bloviating assholes that steal/destroy unhoused people's things for a publicity stunt, aid and abet genocide, throw trans people, immigrants, and others to the fascists in the name of being "pragmatic", "civil", "democratic" "lesser evilism", etc. Hell, they'll even try to paint it like they're doing people a favor by only sacrificing some of us in their "compromise" with the fascists.
Brother you're the one refusing to come to other peoples aid in the poem. They're telling you a very easy way to do minimal labor to stop this from happening and you expect others to do much more for you.
|
On September 20 2025 03:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2025 01:49 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 01:32 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:51 LightSpectra wrote:On September 20 2025 00:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:49 LightSpectra wrote:
Ah, there's the GH "Dems bad, please bro, do anything but vote Dems bro, I promise bro everything will be okay if we just let Republicans win one more election bro" post. Right on schedule. You guys skip right past expecting your politicians to represent your interests (or you know, not engage in genocide) to "we should let Republicans win". Worse than being pathetic, it's dysfunctional to a democratic society. Kamala Harris did represent my interests when she called for a ceasefire three times over the course of 2024. But Trump won and you got what you wanted, right? Biden called for plenty of ceasefires too right? They were still aiding and abetting genocide though weren't they? It wasn't for votes. It wasn't even a popular position (question 52 pg. 7). Yet Harris made it abundantly clear she was going to ignore her voters and continue aiding and abetting genocide anyway. When you're knowingly/willingly voting for people you know are aiding and abetting genocide (against popular opinion) you've lost the plot on the ostensible point of having a "western democratic society". When you turn and cast aspersions against those that wouldn't support genocide, you've lost the plot on your own humanity. Is that literally your only talking point though? Of course not (you know that). That the ostensible "opposition party" to Trump still can't even unify over opposing genocide aided and abetted by Trump's administration doesn't bode well for trans people (or the procession of people Democrats will feed to the wolves in an ultimately hopeless attempt to keep themselves safe) though. Everyone is aiding and abetting the Trump admin because all the politicians are afraid of the big bad bully and ultimately only serve in their own self interest, until proven otherwise. I'll be extremely eye brow raised and pleasantly surprised if we actually have some real pushback for once, not like some Newsom bloviation with some huffin' and puffin' that they'll gerrymander the fuck out of California. It's painfully ironic to have someone posting "How the Nazis Targeted Transgender People" while they and others are proudly speedrunning the 21st century US version of the Niemöller quote during an ongoing genocide. You'll see pushback, but it'll be aimed at anyone that doesn't want to vote for the kind of bloviating assholes that steal/destroy unhoused people's things for a publicity stunt, aid and abet genocide, throw trans people, immigrants, and others to the fascists in the name of being "pragmatic", "civil", "democratic" "lesser evilism", etc. Hell, they'll even try to paint it like they're doing people a favor by only sacrificing some of us in their "compromise" with the fascists.
Why are you still openly supporting China and denying their ongoing, government document proved, cultural genocide? Not to mention all the slave labour they use to make their elite rich beyond our wildest dreams. If Netanyahu acted the exact same and had the word socialist or communist in its party name you would be calling him comrade and talking about how someone is finally dealing with Fascists the way you want them too. The innocent civilians would magically turn into collaborators.
You have no moral high ground but rather the opposite. You love dictators, killing, genocide or whatever you just want it to be "your team" that is doing it. Cut the bullshit. And if you won't at least try to be a little more original the same post written over 200 times now is exhausting.
|
On September 20 2025 03:22 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2025 03:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 01:49 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 01:32 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:51 LightSpectra wrote:On September 20 2025 00:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:49 LightSpectra wrote:
Ah, there's the GH "Dems bad, please bro, do anything but vote Dems bro, I promise bro everything will be okay if we just let Republicans win one more election bro" post. Right on schedule. You guys skip right past expecting your politicians to represent your interests (or you know, not engage in genocide) to "we should let Republicans win". Worse than being pathetic, it's dysfunctional to a democratic society. Kamala Harris did represent my interests when she called for a ceasefire three times over the course of 2024. But Trump won and you got what you wanted, right? Biden called for plenty of ceasefires too right? They were still aiding and abetting genocide though weren't they? It wasn't for votes. It wasn't even a popular position (question 52 pg. 7). Yet Harris made it abundantly clear she was going to ignore her voters and continue aiding and abetting genocide anyway. When you're knowingly/willingly voting for people you know are aiding and abetting genocide (against popular opinion) you've lost the plot on the ostensible point of having a "western democratic society". When you turn and cast aspersions against those that wouldn't support genocide, you've lost the plot on your own humanity. Is that literally your only talking point though? Of course not (you know that). That the ostensible "opposition party" to Trump still can't even unify over opposing genocide aided and abetted by Trump's administration doesn't bode well for trans people (or the procession of people Democrats will feed to the wolves in an ultimately hopeless attempt to keep themselves safe) though. Everyone is aiding and abetting the Trump admin because all the politicians are afraid of the big bad bully and ultimately only serve in their own self interest, until proven otherwise. I'll be extremely eye brow raised and pleasantly surprised if we actually have some real pushback for once, not like some Newsom bloviation with some huffin' and puffin' that they'll gerrymander the fuck out of California. It's painfully ironic to have someone posting "How the Nazis Targeted Transgender People" while they and others are proudly speedrunning the 21st century US version of the Niemöller quote during an ongoing genocide. You'll see pushback, but it'll be aimed at anyone that doesn't want to vote for the kind of bloviating assholes that steal/destroy unhoused people's things for a publicity stunt, aid and abet genocide, throw trans people, immigrants, and others to the fascists in the name of being "pragmatic", "civil", "democratic" "lesser evilism", etc. Hell, they'll even try to paint it like they're doing people a favor by only sacrificing some of us in their "compromise" with the fascists. Brother you're the one refusing to come to other peoples aid in the poem. They're telling you a very easy way to do minimal labor to stop this from happening and you expect others to do much more for you. Setting aside that isn't how US democracy works and the winner was declared before my vote was even counted...
Even if Kamala Harris won, it literally wouldn't have stopped the US's aiding and abetting genocide.
Her losing has inadvertently pressured Europeans to sorta consider eventually acting since they can't sensibly hide behind following the US's lead anymore though.
|
On September 20 2025 03:49 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2025 03:22 Sermokala wrote:On September 20 2025 03:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 01:49 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 01:32 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:51 LightSpectra wrote:On September 20 2025 00:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:49 LightSpectra wrote:
Ah, there's the GH "Dems bad, please bro, do anything but vote Dems bro, I promise bro everything will be okay if we just let Republicans win one more election bro" post. Right on schedule. You guys skip right past expecting your politicians to represent your interests (or you know, not engage in genocide) to "we should let Republicans win". Worse than being pathetic, it's dysfunctional to a democratic society. Kamala Harris did represent my interests when she called for a ceasefire three times over the course of 2024. But Trump won and you got what you wanted, right? Biden called for plenty of ceasefires too right? They were still aiding and abetting genocide though weren't they? It wasn't for votes. It wasn't even a popular position (question 52 pg. 7). Yet Harris made it abundantly clear she was going to ignore her voters and continue aiding and abetting genocide anyway. When you're knowingly/willingly voting for people you know are aiding and abetting genocide (against popular opinion) you've lost the plot on the ostensible point of having a "western democratic society". When you turn and cast aspersions against those that wouldn't support genocide, you've lost the plot on your own humanity. Is that literally your only talking point though? Of course not (you know that). That the ostensible "opposition party" to Trump still can't even unify over opposing genocide aided and abetted by Trump's administration doesn't bode well for trans people (or the procession of people Democrats will feed to the wolves in an ultimately hopeless attempt to keep themselves safe) though. Everyone is aiding and abetting the Trump admin because all the politicians are afraid of the big bad bully and ultimately only serve in their own self interest, until proven otherwise. I'll be extremely eye brow raised and pleasantly surprised if we actually have some real pushback for once, not like some Newsom bloviation with some huffin' and puffin' that they'll gerrymander the fuck out of California. It's painfully ironic to have someone posting "How the Nazis Targeted Transgender People" while they and others are proudly speedrunning the 21st century US version of the Niemöller quote during an ongoing genocide. You'll see pushback, but it'll be aimed at anyone that doesn't want to vote for the kind of bloviating assholes that steal/destroy unhoused people's things for a publicity stunt, aid and abet genocide, throw trans people, immigrants, and others to the fascists in the name of being "pragmatic", "civil", "democratic" "lesser evilism", etc. Hell, they'll even try to paint it like they're doing people a favor by only sacrificing some of us in their "compromise" with the fascists. Brother you're the one refusing to come to other peoples aid in the poem. They're telling you a very easy way to do minimal labor to stop this from happening and you expect others to do much more for you. Setting aside that isn't how US democracy works and the winner was declared before my vote was even counted... Even if Kamala Harris won, it literally wouldn't have stopped the US's aiding and abetting genocide. Her losing has inadvertently pressured Europeans to sorta consider eventually acting since they can't sensibly hide behind following the US's lead anymore though.
The discourse on israel has changed drastically since then and so could her stance. I can certainly tell you that at least we wouldn't have had a president welcoming a a fucking golden pager as some sort of sick post terrorism celebration gift from Bibi or one talking about how to remove the palestinean people to build a gazan riviera
|
Northern Ireland25698 Posts
On September 20 2025 03:49 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2025 03:22 Sermokala wrote:On September 20 2025 03:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 01:49 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 01:32 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:51 LightSpectra wrote:On September 20 2025 00:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:49 LightSpectra wrote:
Ah, there's the GH "Dems bad, please bro, do anything but vote Dems bro, I promise bro everything will be okay if we just let Republicans win one more election bro" post. Right on schedule. You guys skip right past expecting your politicians to represent your interests (or you know, not engage in genocide) to "we should let Republicans win". Worse than being pathetic, it's dysfunctional to a democratic society. Kamala Harris did represent my interests when she called for a ceasefire three times over the course of 2024. But Trump won and you got what you wanted, right? Biden called for plenty of ceasefires too right? They were still aiding and abetting genocide though weren't they? It wasn't for votes. It wasn't even a popular position (question 52 pg. 7). Yet Harris made it abundantly clear she was going to ignore her voters and continue aiding and abetting genocide anyway. When you're knowingly/willingly voting for people you know are aiding and abetting genocide (against popular opinion) you've lost the plot on the ostensible point of having a "western democratic society". When you turn and cast aspersions against those that wouldn't support genocide, you've lost the plot on your own humanity. Is that literally your only talking point though? Of course not (you know that). That the ostensible "opposition party" to Trump still can't even unify over opposing genocide aided and abetted by Trump's administration doesn't bode well for trans people (or the procession of people Democrats will feed to the wolves in an ultimately hopeless attempt to keep themselves safe) though. Everyone is aiding and abetting the Trump admin because all the politicians are afraid of the big bad bully and ultimately only serve in their own self interest, until proven otherwise. I'll be extremely eye brow raised and pleasantly surprised if we actually have some real pushback for once, not like some Newsom bloviation with some huffin' and puffin' that they'll gerrymander the fuck out of California. It's painfully ironic to have someone posting "How the Nazis Targeted Transgender People" while they and others are proudly speedrunning the 21st century US version of the Niemöller quote during an ongoing genocide. You'll see pushback, but it'll be aimed at anyone that doesn't want to vote for the kind of bloviating assholes that steal/destroy unhoused people's things for a publicity stunt, aid and abet genocide, throw trans people, immigrants, and others to the fascists in the name of being "pragmatic", "civil", "democratic" "lesser evilism", etc. Hell, they'll even try to paint it like they're doing people a favor by only sacrificing some of us in their "compromise" with the fascists. Brother you're the one refusing to come to other peoples aid in the poem. They're telling you a very easy way to do minimal labor to stop this from happening and you expect others to do much more for you. Setting aside that isn't how US democracy works and the winner was declared before my vote was even counted... Even if Kamala Harris won, it literally wouldn't have stopped the US's aiding and abetting genocide. Her losing has inadvertently pressured Europeans to sorta consider eventually acting since they can't sensibly hide behind following the US's lead anymore though.
No it hasn’t, it’s impeded it.
Especially in combination with general US fuckery around NATO, Ukraine and tariffs, and the US being even more thin-skinned and even more belligerently pro-Israel.
Treading on eggshells to avoid the wrath of the Donald hasn’t lead to the kind of inadvertent silver lining you’re claiming here.
As regards Israel/Palestine specifically, the inhibiting effect of such a belligerent administration was right up there as my top reasons for the Harris ticket being meaningfully better, however slight, and I stick by that.
Not being European, you’re likely not as plugged into things over here as some of us are. Keeping the US sweet (or indeed, sometimes literally just Donald Trump personally) to avoid some kind of reprisal has been a huge theme, especially in this second term. Palestine isn’t really an exception to that. Trump just had a state visit here, and that was a huge theme. Starmer got mildly rebuked for symbolically recognising Palestine, but Trump was calmed when Keir made it clear he strongly condemned Hamas
This simply isn’t the modus operandi of the Democrats. They don’t dangle tariffs, or not fulfilling NATO obligations as a threat in the manner this current lot certainly do.
I’ll also add this administration expelled diplomats from, among other places, South Africa, as a South African was one of those who formally tabled for the conflict to be considered a genocide.
This administration also has targeted student activism on the topic, as well publicised.
Two things I simply don’t think the Dems would do.
|
United States42982 Posts
We’ve reached the point that GH is openly admitting that he prefers Trump to Kamala.
|
On September 19 2025 22:56 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 19:12 KT_Elwood wrote:
Fascism needs to antagonize outside groups. It contradicts the narrative that somebody who "has it all" - is white, gunloving and churchgoing - to suddenly take up a gun and shoot somebody who is preaching the fascism.
Meanwhile Wombat has Kirk in top 4 of his celebrated deaths Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 04:43 WombaT wrote:
I’d put Charlie Kirk in my top 4 celebrated deaths.
Jankisa also has him somewhere on his list: Show nested quote +On September 19 2025 05:42 Jankisa wrote:
Personally, for me Kirk doesn't really rank that high, I'd definitely have Rush above him. I dont think they ever even meet the guy. It doesant even matter if guy was leftist (which I would say is 9 out of 10 chance he was). What matter, is that left endorsed it en masse. It doesnt matter what Democrat leading figures did, what matters is that Democrats are party of those people. Show nested quote +On September 18 2025 02:22 Mohdoo wrote:On September 17 2025 22:19 KT_Elwood wrote:I find the sentiment "He can't be right wing, if he was in love with a transperson". hilarious. On September 17 2025 21:50 Magic Powers wrote:
....
That means it was an assassination based on Kirk's expression of political views.
But as you correctly point out that doesn't imply TR was either left or right. He may've chosen Kirk as his target based on the demographics Kirk expressed hatred for, and not based on the ideology Kirk represented.
....
You got it. Expressing hatred based on Religion/Race/Gender/Sexual orientation is not expressing a political view. That's just being a threat to other people's existence. Americans and especially right-wing people in my mind have a rather narrow approach to combat existencial threats. (Hint: It's always involving guns!) I think this conversation is not handled responsibly when its between left/right wing people disagreeing. We all agree there are times when people should die for their political beliefs. We may not agree a specific person had sufficiently wrong beliefs to be killed, but WW2 was totally about "political beliefs". Show nested quote +On September 18 2025 03:57 Phyanketto wrote:On September 18 2025 02:22 Mohdoo wrote:
I think this conversation is not handled responsibly when its between left/right wing people disagreeing. We all agree there are times when people should die for their political beliefs. We may not agree a specific person had sufficiently wrong beliefs to be killed, but WW2 was totally about "political beliefs". Agreed, the vitriol has become too much, but one side is broadly armed and in control of government, and openly flaunting the constitution and established legal precedent. This was released the other day, and while I am loathe to speculate, this would appear to be the exact sort of thing the right is calling for. Attacking someone's beliefs is not the same thing as attacking someone's personhood or safety, which is basically what the more extreme (platformed) arm of the right is doing. The very fact that they can advocate things like that and this should be terrifying to everyone who cares about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I fully realize that those 'rappers' are just individuals, but at the same time, so was Tyler Robinson. The response on the right has not been about individuals, it has been collectivist and identity-based, which is ironically the thing they claim to hate most. They seem to be happy to sacrifice whole groups and their identity as freedom-loving Americans to sate their bloodlust. Seems like people here have 0 self awareness. Show nested quote +On September 18 2025 22:21 Uldridge wrote:
I don't have the brainpower to combat a mentally deranged group of people that deny reality. They stoke the flames while gaslighting at the same time.
You just described this entire thread.
I know what you are but what am i?
|
On September 20 2025 04:15 KwarK wrote:
We’ve reached the point that GH is openly admitting that he prefers Trump to Kamala.
I mean he made the happiest of all posts on election night and loves dictators so it all tracks.
|
Northern Ireland25698 Posts
On September 20 2025 04:13 decafchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2025 03:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 03:22 Sermokala wrote:On September 20 2025 03:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 01:49 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 01:32 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:51 LightSpectra wrote:On September 20 2025 00:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
You guys skip right past expecting your politicians to represent your interests (or you know, not engage in genocide) to "we should let Republicans win".
Worse than being pathetic, it's dysfunctional to a democratic society. Kamala Harris did represent my interests when she called for a ceasefire three times over the course of 2024. But Trump won and you got what you wanted, right? Biden called for plenty of ceasefires too right? They were still aiding and abetting genocide though weren't they? It wasn't for votes. It wasn't even a popular position (question 52 pg. 7). Yet Harris made it abundantly clear she was going to ignore her voters and continue aiding and abetting genocide anyway. When you're knowingly/willingly voting for people you know are aiding and abetting genocide (against popular opinion) you've lost the plot on the ostensible point of having a "western democratic society". When you turn and cast aspersions against those that wouldn't support genocide, you've lost the plot on your own humanity. Is that literally your only talking point though? Of course not (you know that). That the ostensible "opposition party" to Trump still can't even unify over opposing genocide aided and abetted by Trump's administration doesn't bode well for trans people (or the procession of people Democrats will feed to the wolves in an ultimately hopeless attempt to keep themselves safe) though. Everyone is aiding and abetting the Trump admin because all the politicians are afraid of the big bad bully and ultimately only serve in their own self interest, until proven otherwise. I'll be extremely eye brow raised and pleasantly surprised if we actually have some real pushback for once, not like some Newsom bloviation with some huffin' and puffin' that they'll gerrymander the fuck out of California. It's painfully ironic to have someone posting "How the Nazis Targeted Transgender People" while they and others are proudly speedrunning the 21st century US version of the Niemöller quote during an ongoing genocide. You'll see pushback, but it'll be aimed at anyone that doesn't want to vote for the kind of bloviating assholes that steal/destroy unhoused people's things for a publicity stunt, aid and abet genocide, throw trans people, immigrants, and others to the fascists in the name of being "pragmatic", "civil", "democratic" "lesser evilism", etc. Hell, they'll even try to paint it like they're doing people a favor by only sacrificing some of us in their "compromise" with the fascists. Brother you're the one refusing to come to other peoples aid in the poem. They're telling you a very easy way to do minimal labor to stop this from happening and you expect others to do much more for you. Setting aside that isn't how US democracy works and the winner was declared before my vote was even counted... Even if Kamala Harris won, it literally wouldn't have stopped the US's aiding and abetting genocide. Her losing has inadvertently pressured Europeans to sorta consider eventually acting since they can't sensibly hide behind following the US's lead anymore though. The discourse on israel has changed drastically since then and so could her stance. I can certainly tell you that at least we wouldn't have had a president welcoming a a fucking golden pager as some sort of sick post terrorism celebration gift from Bibi or one talking about how to remove the palestinean people to build a gazan riviera
It’s almost like we’re quite a while down the line now ain’t it?
I’m caught between possibly the most consistently pro-Palestine nation in Europe, and a relatively moderate/split one, Ireland and the UK respectively.
In the latter, I’ve definitely observed many drift. That Israel had some legitimate security claims and some mandate to strike back. Not enthusiastically by any means, but ‘fair enough’. Not unlike say, Afghanistan post 9/11.
But over time that’s definitely waned, I mean folks will only support a just war so long as it’s well, just to them. I saw recently that the amount of deaths at Israeli-administered aid points alone is starting to get close to the deaths on October 7th itself. Which is insane
I dunno how things have shifted in the rest of Europe from where we started on that day. Definitely feels like in the UK that support is evaporating, at least from folks around the centre.
|
On September 20 2025 04:28 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2025 04:13 decafchicken wrote:On September 20 2025 03:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 03:22 Sermokala wrote:On September 20 2025 03:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 01:49 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 01:32 Uldridge wrote:On September 20 2025 01:21 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 20 2025 00:51 LightSpectra wrote:
[quote]
Kamala Harris did represent my interests when she called for a ceasefire three times over the course of 2024. But Trump won and you got what you wanted, right? Biden called for plenty of ceasefires too right? They were still aiding and abetting genocide though weren't they? It wasn't for votes. It wasn't even a popular position (question 52 pg. 7). Yet Harris made it abundantly clear she was going to ignore her voters and continue aiding and abetting genocide anyway. When you're knowingly/willingly voting for people you know are aiding and abetting genocide (against popular opinion) you've lost the plot on the ostensible point of having a "western democratic society". When you turn and cast aspersions against those that wouldn't support genocide, you've lost the plot on your own humanity. Is that literally your only talking point though? Of course not (you know that). That the ostensible "opposition party" to Trump still can't even unify over opposing genocide aided and abetted by Trump's administration doesn't bode well for trans people (or the procession of people Democrats will feed to the wolves in an ultimately hopeless attempt to keep themselves safe) though. Everyone is aiding and abetting the Trump admin because all the politicians are afraid of the big bad bully and ultimately only serve in their own self interest, until proven otherwise. I'll be extremely eye brow raised and pleasantly surprised if we actually have some real pushback for once, not like some Newsom bloviation with some huffin' and puffin' that they'll gerrymander the fuck out of California. It's painfully ironic to have someone posting "How the Nazis Targeted Transgender People" while they and others are proudly speedrunning the 21st century US version of the Niemöller quote during an ongoing genocide. You'll see pushback, but it'll be aimed at anyone that doesn't want to vote for the kind of bloviating assholes that steal/destroy unhoused people's things for a publicity stunt, aid and abet genocide, throw trans people, immigrants, and others to the fascists in the name of being "pragmatic", "civil", "democratic" "lesser evilism", etc. Hell, they'll even try to paint it like they're doing people a favor by only sacrificing some of us in their "compromise" with the fascists. Brother you're the one refusing to come to other peoples aid in the poem. They're telling you a very easy way to do minimal labor to stop this from happening and you expect others to do much more for you. Setting aside that isn't how US democracy works and the winner was declared before my vote was even counted... Even if Kamala Harris won, it literally wouldn't have stopped the US's aiding and abetting genocide. Her losing has inadvertently pressured Europeans to sorta consider eventually acting since they can't sensibly hide behind following the US's lead anymore though. The discourse on israel has changed drastically since then and so could her stance. I can certainly tell you that at least we wouldn't have had a president welcoming a a fucking golden pager as some sort of sick post terrorism celebration gift from Bibi or one talking about how to remove the palestinean people to build a gazan riviera It’s almost like we’re quite a while down the line now ain’t it? I’m caught between possibly the most consistently pro-Palestine nation in Europe, and a relatively moderate/split one, Ireland and the UK respectively. In the latter, I’ve definitely observed many drift. That Israel had some legitimate security claims and some mandate to strike back. Not enthusiastically by any means, but ‘fair enough’. Not unlike say, Afghanistan post 9/11. But over time that’s definitely waned, I mean folks will only support a just war so long as it’s well, just to them. I saw recently that the amount of deaths at Israeli-administered aid points alone is starting to get close to the deaths on October 7th itself. Which is insane I dunno how things have shifted in the rest of Europe from where we started on that day. Definitely feels like in the UK that support is evaporating, at least from folks around the centre.
I had a friend around 2010ish tell me the DUP only started caring about Israel because they were retaliating against Sinn Fein HQ flying a Palestine flag, any truth to that?
|
On September 19 2025 12:39 Phyanketto wrote:
So, addressing the root of the problem, how do we eliminate social media? That's honestly what needs to go. I'm not going to pretend that hatred and tribalism weren't always part of the american condition, but socmed (once algorithmic) started platforming ragebait and agitprop, and feeding the feeling of acceptance of people's most destructive opinions. Trump is right that social media needs to go, but obviously he's just going to get rid of left-leaning social media, and force companies to prioritize right-wing, racist, and anti-lgbt voices. How the hell do we get rid of these platforms without pulling a silverhand?
Can‘t speak for how you would do it in the US. Probably by flooding the platforms with absurdity targeting the owners, but then they just censor it.
In the EU you could run separate instances of the media that adhere to local laws.
Long-term only realistic competition that better reflects the values here offers a chance to stop the insanity from spilling over.
More or less a great firewall system like China has. Then you become susceptible to abuse of power though.
Nobody from outside is going to be able to save the US from itself if it becomes a genocidal regime for some reason (Austria is a specialist in that btw)
There‘s also a difference between supporting Israel as a state and condoning everything they do and if you don‘t do that in the US, you become a target.
For your own security always keep a MAGA hat in the drawer.
|
|
|
Oh Hoekstra, no he is just a complete and utter MAGA moron who isn't used to being outside of America.
He was US ambassador to the Netherlands during Trump 1. He claimed there were area's of the Netherlands where police didn't dare come that were rules by radical islam, when confronted by the news about these statements he denied making them and called it fake news.. At which point they promptly played a clip of his exact words, after which he claimed he never called it fake news...
Oh and he broke international law by hosting a fundraiser for a Dutch far-right political party inside the US embassy, a direct case of election interference.
|
On September 20 2025 00:45 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Years from now, they'll have to clarify which country they're referring to... How the German Nazis targeted transgender people vs. How the American Nazis targeted transgender people.
I don't think that this is how this usually works out. My guess is that eventually, Maga will become as bad of a thing to be described as as Nazi already is.
After all, Nazi is what the Nazis called themselves. It just became a bad word because of the stuff the Nazis did. So once the murdering and the camps start from Maga, you no longer need to call them Nazis, you can just call them Maga.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
