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On July 17 2025 04:41 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 04:14 KwarK wrote:On July 17 2025 03:55 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 02:31 Jankisa wrote:
But if Trump was on it, why didn't the democrats release it. No one has an answer to this. Literally everyone has an answer to this. It's been answered a million times. Clinton. If you want to make that work so it rests just on Clinton and not an Illuminati level total conspiracy, you patch the boat and make a bunch more leaks: 1) The FBI didn't notice Clinton in their investigations of Epstein under GWB, or found it and covered it up to protect him because Clinton being involved in a sexual scandal would be too much for the nation to endure 2) Epstein, famous blackmailer of rich powerful people around the world by selling them kids to rape, when under investigation chose not to flip against one of them to save his ass by giving Clinton up to the GWB FBI in exchange for immunity Now what kind of deep state must there be that has collected child rape proof of all sides of the political aisle, and sides of the pond, and doesn't act on it. And hasn't let anyone leak it. That's possibly the most successful federal operation in history. The mafia don't have that level of loyalty.
The nature of the evidence likely makes it impossible to only unmask certain people without it being obvious someone else is being protected. I think that’s the whole point of how this was all designed.
Allowing for someone to go rogue and expose individuals would make the whole thing implode and would destroy the extremely critical security they needed. The whole thing being a giant suicide pact where 1 person going down means someone else goes down, which means someone else goes down, means everyone involved is highly incentivized to use the influence and power they have to keep it under wraps forever.
Think of it like crowd sourced conspiracy by making sure everyone involved is selfishly motivated to protect others. No one goes down without a cascade, meaning the world’s most powerful people are able to keep it under wraps. There are probably republicans behind the scenes who have taken action to protect Clinton purely out of their own self interests. Trump has likely been covered for by democrats for the same reason.
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Honestly I don't think it would even matter if they released the files and Trump was on it. Who's going to do anything about it? Department of Justice and FBI have been gutted and filled with loyalist, Trump has consolidated pretty much all power to the executive branch, the Supreme Court are actively enabling him, Congress won't impeach him, he has personal army that operates outside of the military branches with a new $150B budget, etc.
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On July 17 2025 04:51 Velr wrote:
Btw: What I don't get about this outrage... Trump has done comparably bad stuff and was actually convicted for it. I don't get why so many people suddenly decided to find their moral compass right here.
Because they believed right-wing media when they said Democrats were all over the Epstein list and if Trump just won the 2024 election, they'd all go down in flames. Finding out they were the ones defending a child rapist the whole time has been upsetting. There is absolutely no good explanation whatseover for Bondi saying the list was ready to release in February and now they're saying it's fake, but also Comey and Biden made it up. Even the dumbest members of the cult can see that.
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On July 17 2025 04:57 decafchicken wrote:
Honestly I don't think it would even matter if they released the files and Trump was on it. Who's going to do anything about it? Department of Justice and FBI have been gutted and filled with loyalist, Trump has consolidated pretty much all power to the executive branch, the Supreme Court are actively enabling him, Congress won't impeach him, he has personal army that operates outside of the military branches with a new $150B budget, etc.
This is what makes republican voters such spineless little cowards. The ones who are letting Trump tell them to move on are pretending they didn't know this was a major, important topic a year ago.
And look at the state of democrats, lol. Even if Trump was in directly proven to have been a pedo, he'd still win the next election against democrats. Democrats aren't retaking the house in 2026 regardless of what is in those files. Republicans should be screaming for this ACTUAL deep state bullshit to get exposed and punished, because as much as I hate to admit it, its not like it would actually harm their power or influence.
Democrats aren't getting shit in the next 4 years anyway. Letting Trump tell them to protect him, and them nodding in reply, is really detestable. Literally deep state pedo ring they screamed about a year ago, now hushing people by Trump's command.
Trump and Republican control of our government are *not* vulnerable to these Epstein files. Only wealth donors and their relationships with their families are vulnerable here.
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On July 17 2025 05:06 Mohdoo wrote:
Democrats aren't retaking the house in 2026 regardless of what is in those files.
Nah, no reason to think that. Presidents have historically lost the House in midterms, and Trump's popularity is even lower than it was during his first term now.
True, confidence in Democrats is also much worse, but I think more Republicans are going to stay home than Democrats at this point.
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On July 17 2025 04:53 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 04:41 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 04:14 KwarK wrote:On July 17 2025 03:55 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 02:31 Jankisa wrote:
But if Trump was on it, why didn't the democrats release it. No one has an answer to this. Literally everyone has an answer to this. It's been answered a million times. Clinton. If you want to make that work so it rests just on Clinton and not an Illuminati level total conspiracy, you patch the boat and make a bunch more leaks: 1) The FBI didn't notice Clinton in their investigations of Epstein under GWB, or found it and covered it up to protect him because Clinton being involved in a sexual scandal would be too much for the nation to endure 2) Epstein, famous blackmailer of rich powerful people around the world by selling them kids to rape, when under investigation chose not to flip against one of them to save his ass by giving Clinton up to the GWB FBI in exchange for immunity Now what kind of deep state must there be that has collected child rape proof of all sides of the political aisle, and sides of the pond, and doesn't act on it. And hasn't let anyone leak it. That's possibly the most successful federal operation in history. The mafia don't have that level of loyalty. The nature of the evidence likely makes it impossible to only unmask certain people without it being obvious someone else is being protected. I think that’s the whole point of how this was all designed. Allowing for someone to go rogue and expose individuals would make the whole thing implode and would destroy the extremely critical security they needed. The whole thing being a giant suicide pact where 1 person going down means someone else goes down, which means someone else goes down, means everyone involved is highly incentivized to use the influence and power they have to keep it under wraps forever. Think of it like crowd sourced conspiracy by making sure everyone involved is selfishly motivated to protect others. No one goes down without a cascade, meaning the world’s most powerful people are able to keep it under wraps. There are probably republicans behind the scenes who have taken action to protect Clinton purely out of their own self interests. Trump has likely been covered for by democrats for the same reason.
It's not simply "Democrats" and "Republicans." These are FBI agents, attorneys, offices full of people and investigators, including career, and nonpartisan. Even if it were a partisan conspiracy.
I understand we have a circular justification for the conspiracy. And that it's so big and perfect, that what other argument can we be expected to make?
And that's partially true in nature, that things just exist without regard to how easy or difficult they are to prove. But some of them are quite difficult, and do exist anyways. Like a pile of a few rocks just collapses. But a lot more rocks, perfectly balanced, make an arch.
My problem is the supposed keystone in this. He got investigated twice, convicted, sued a bunch of times, and suicided. But it seems he forgot the "giant" part of the "giant suicide pact." He was going and went down. Why didn't he take anybody with him? Was he not the Machiavelli? Whose master plan was it? What the hell happened?
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On July 17 2025 05:12 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 04:53 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2025 04:41 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 04:14 KwarK wrote:On July 17 2025 03:55 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 02:31 Jankisa wrote:
But if Trump was on it, why didn't the democrats release it. No one has an answer to this. Literally everyone has an answer to this. It's been answered a million times. Clinton. If you want to make that work so it rests just on Clinton and not an Illuminati level total conspiracy, you patch the boat and make a bunch more leaks: 1) The FBI didn't notice Clinton in their investigations of Epstein under GWB, or found it and covered it up to protect him because Clinton being involved in a sexual scandal would be too much for the nation to endure 2) Epstein, famous blackmailer of rich powerful people around the world by selling them kids to rape, when under investigation chose not to flip against one of them to save his ass by giving Clinton up to the GWB FBI in exchange for immunity Now what kind of deep state must there be that has collected child rape proof of all sides of the political aisle, and sides of the pond, and doesn't act on it. And hasn't let anyone leak it. That's possibly the most successful federal operation in history. The mafia don't have that level of loyalty. The nature of the evidence likely makes it impossible to only unmask certain people without it being obvious someone else is being protected. I think that’s the whole point of how this was all designed. Allowing for someone to go rogue and expose individuals would make the whole thing implode and would destroy the extremely critical security they needed. The whole thing being a giant suicide pact where 1 person going down means someone else goes down, which means someone else goes down, means everyone involved is highly incentivized to use the influence and power they have to keep it under wraps forever. Think of it like crowd sourced conspiracy by making sure everyone involved is selfishly motivated to protect others. No one goes down without a cascade, meaning the world’s most powerful people are able to keep it under wraps. There are probably republicans behind the scenes who have taken action to protect Clinton purely out of their own self interests. Trump has likely been covered for by democrats for the same reason. It's not simply "Democrats" and "Republicans." These are FBI agents, attorneys, offices full of people and investigators, including career, and nonpartisan. Even if it were a partisan conspiracy. I understand we have a circular justification for the conspiracy. And that it's so big and perfect, that what other argument can we be expected to make? And that's partially true in nature, that things just exist without regard to how easy or difficult they are to prove. But some of them are quite difficult, and do exist anyways. Like a pile of a few rocks just collapses. But a lot more rocks, perfectly balanced, make an arch. My problem is the supposed keystone in this. He got investigated twice, convicted, sued a bunch of times, and suicided. But it seems he forgot the "giant" part of the "giant suicide pact." He was going and went down. Why didn't he take anybody with him? Was he not the Machiavelli? Whose master plan was it? What the hell happened?
Its not clear to me what your point is. You're saying there were no pedo parties or pedo trafficking? It was just Epstein and Maxwell?
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On July 17 2025 05:15 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 05:12 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 04:53 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2025 04:41 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 04:14 KwarK wrote:On July 17 2025 03:55 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 02:31 Jankisa wrote:
But if Trump was on it, why didn't the democrats release it. No one has an answer to this. Literally everyone has an answer to this. It's been answered a million times. Clinton. If you want to make that work so it rests just on Clinton and not an Illuminati level total conspiracy, you patch the boat and make a bunch more leaks: 1) The FBI didn't notice Clinton in their investigations of Epstein under GWB, or found it and covered it up to protect him because Clinton being involved in a sexual scandal would be too much for the nation to endure 2) Epstein, famous blackmailer of rich powerful people around the world by selling them kids to rape, when under investigation chose not to flip against one of them to save his ass by giving Clinton up to the GWB FBI in exchange for immunity Now what kind of deep state must there be that has collected child rape proof of all sides of the political aisle, and sides of the pond, and doesn't act on it. And hasn't let anyone leak it. That's possibly the most successful federal operation in history. The mafia don't have that level of loyalty. The nature of the evidence likely makes it impossible to only unmask certain people without it being obvious someone else is being protected. I think that’s the whole point of how this was all designed. Allowing for someone to go rogue and expose individuals would make the whole thing implode and would destroy the extremely critical security they needed. The whole thing being a giant suicide pact where 1 person going down means someone else goes down, which means someone else goes down, means everyone involved is highly incentivized to use the influence and power they have to keep it under wraps forever. Think of it like crowd sourced conspiracy by making sure everyone involved is selfishly motivated to protect others. No one goes down without a cascade, meaning the world’s most powerful people are able to keep it under wraps. There are probably republicans behind the scenes who have taken action to protect Clinton purely out of their own self interests. Trump has likely been covered for by democrats for the same reason. It's not simply "Democrats" and "Republicans." These are FBI agents, attorneys, offices full of people and investigators, including career, and nonpartisan. Even if it were a partisan conspiracy. I understand we have a circular justification for the conspiracy. And that it's so big and perfect, that what other argument can we be expected to make? And that's partially true in nature, that things just exist without regard to how easy or difficult they are to prove. But some of them are quite difficult, and do exist anyways. Like a pile of a few rocks just collapses. But a lot more rocks, perfectly balanced, make an arch. My problem is the supposed keystone in this. He got investigated twice, convicted, sued a bunch of times, and suicided. But it seems he forgot the "giant" part of the "giant suicide pact." He was going and went down. Why didn't he take anybody with him? Was he not the Machiavelli? Whose master plan was it? What the hell happened? Its not clear to me what your point is. You're saying there were no pedo parties or pedo trafficking? It was just Epstein and Maxwell?
Okay firstly, Epstein is trafficking already. The two of them, that's trafficking. + Show Spoiler +Telling Ghislaine "Get a minor for me" and then paying them for sex, and then paying the minor to recruit someone else and pay both minors including a recruiting bonus to the minor who found the other minor, which is what he did, repeatedly, is trafficking. By itself. Even if another perpetrator is never charged, that's already trafficking. The way you phrase the question just makes it seem like it's so taken for granted that Epstein is a pedo that the girls belonged to him in some way so when he abused them it wasn't trafficking. It's all trafficking already. If you abuse your own child, you can be a rapist, but not a trafficker. If you attack someone on the street, you aren't a trafficker. If you now are abusing some minor paying them for sex acts, and then say hey Mr. Clinton how about I give you this minor in the back of the plane, and you get the FBI off my back, or Mr. Trump how about I give you this minor and you get me a sweet penthouse deal, or Mr. Derschowitz I don't have enough millions of dollars to pay your defense fee against my sex trafficking charge, how about I pay you with this minor child instead - this is all trafficking too but he's trafficking whether he perpetrates the abuse or whether he gets the benefit in exchange, it's all trafficking, because he's the cause.
*Before someone might misunderstand, I don't buy the allegations that he trafficked minors to his defense lawyer in his sex abuse case, Alan Derschowitz, or to Stephen Hawking or Noam Chomsky or Courtney Love, it's just making fun of the idea everyone ever on his plane or in his contacts is a pedorapist. Not that anyone specifically asserted that now.
You said the point of how it was designed is to be a giant suicide pact. I get it, those things exist. MAD. It's basic game theory. Okay, suppose that's right.
I'm saying, it didn't design itself. Who put it together? Epstein seems like the obvious answer. The rich guy with a plane, island, and too much free time that wanted to abuse hundreds of girls and have a breeding farm for himself.
However, in that case, the suicide pact as you say, the house of cards if you will, doesn't seem to have fucking worked very well for him, does it? How do we explain that, or don't we need to? Does that not affect our assumptions at all, or it still fits perfectly?
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On July 17 2025 05:55 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 05:15 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2025 05:12 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 04:53 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2025 04:41 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 04:14 KwarK wrote:On July 17 2025 03:55 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 02:31 Jankisa wrote:
But if Trump was on it, why didn't the democrats release it. No one has an answer to this. Literally everyone has an answer to this. It's been answered a million times. Clinton. If you want to make that work so it rests just on Clinton and not an Illuminati level total conspiracy, you patch the boat and make a bunch more leaks: 1) The FBI didn't notice Clinton in their investigations of Epstein under GWB, or found it and covered it up to protect him because Clinton being involved in a sexual scandal would be too much for the nation to endure 2) Epstein, famous blackmailer of rich powerful people around the world by selling them kids to rape, when under investigation chose not to flip against one of them to save his ass by giving Clinton up to the GWB FBI in exchange for immunity Now what kind of deep state must there be that has collected child rape proof of all sides of the political aisle, and sides of the pond, and doesn't act on it. And hasn't let anyone leak it. That's possibly the most successful federal operation in history. The mafia don't have that level of loyalty. The nature of the evidence likely makes it impossible to only unmask certain people without it being obvious someone else is being protected. I think that’s the whole point of how this was all designed. Allowing for someone to go rogue and expose individuals would make the whole thing implode and would destroy the extremely critical security they needed. The whole thing being a giant suicide pact where 1 person going down means someone else goes down, which means someone else goes down, means everyone involved is highly incentivized to use the influence and power they have to keep it under wraps forever. Think of it like crowd sourced conspiracy by making sure everyone involved is selfishly motivated to protect others. No one goes down without a cascade, meaning the world’s most powerful people are able to keep it under wraps. There are probably republicans behind the scenes who have taken action to protect Clinton purely out of their own self interests. Trump has likely been covered for by democrats for the same reason. It's not simply "Democrats" and "Republicans." These are FBI agents, attorneys, offices full of people and investigators, including career, and nonpartisan. Even if it were a partisan conspiracy. I understand we have a circular justification for the conspiracy. And that it's so big and perfect, that what other argument can we be expected to make? And that's partially true in nature, that things just exist without regard to how easy or difficult they are to prove. But some of them are quite difficult, and do exist anyways. Like a pile of a few rocks just collapses. But a lot more rocks, perfectly balanced, make an arch. My problem is the supposed keystone in this. He got investigated twice, convicted, sued a bunch of times, and suicided. But it seems he forgot the "giant" part of the "giant suicide pact." He was going and went down. Why didn't he take anybody with him? Was he not the Machiavelli? Whose master plan was it? What the hell happened? Its not clear to me what your point is. You're saying there were no pedo parties or pedo trafficking? It was just Epstein and Maxwell? Okay firstly, Epstein is trafficking already. The two of them, that's trafficking. + Show Spoiler +Telling Ghislaine "Get a minor for me" and then paying them for sex, and then paying the minor to recruit someone else and pay both minors including a recruiting bonus to the minor who found the other minor, which is what he did, repeatedly, is trafficking. By itself. Even if another perpetrator is never charged, that's already trafficking. The way you phrase the question just makes it seem like it's so taken for granted that Epstein is a pedo that the girls belonged to him in some way so when he abused them it wasn't trafficking. It's all trafficking already. If you abuse your own child, you can be a rapist, but not a trafficker. If you attack someone on the street, you aren't a trafficker. If you now are abusing some minor paying them for sex acts, and then say hey Mr. Clinton how about I give you this minor in the back of the plane, and you get the FBI off my back, or Mr. Trump how about I give you this minor and you get me a sweet penthouse deal, or Mr. Derschowitz I don't have enough millions of dollars to pay your defense fee against my sex trafficking charge, how about I pay you with this minor child instead - this is all trafficking too but he's trafficking whether he perpetrates the abuse or whether he gets the benefit in exchange, it's all trafficking, because he's the cause.
*Before someone might misunderstand, I don't buy the allegations that he trafficked minors to his defense lawyer in his sex abuse case, Alan Derschowitz, or to Stephen Hawking or Noam Chomsky or Courtney Love, it's just making fun of the idea everyone ever on his plane or in his contacts is a pedorapist. Not that anyone specifically asserted that now.
You said the point of how it was designed is to be a giant suicide pact. I get it, those things exist. MAD. It's basic game theory. Okay, suppose that's right. I'm saying, it didn't design itself. Who put it together? Epstein seems like the obvious answer. The rich guy with a plane, island, and too much free time that wanted to abuse hundreds of girls and have a breeding farm for himself. However, in that case, the suicide pact as you say, the house of cards if you will, doesn't seem to have fucking worked very well for him, does it? How do we explain that, or don't we need to? Does that not affect our assumptions at all, or it still fits perfectly?
I don't claim to have a specific mechanism of how/why he was killed. But I think even if he was the ringleader, it was still clearly something people signed up for knowing the risks and the need to remain secret. This network of parties existing at all is an enormous security risk to anyone who attends. What is to stop Bill Clinton from sneaking a picture of a political rival during one of these parties? I don't think Epstein was some kinda puppet master entangling a bunch of unwitting bears reaching their hand into a pot of honey. People knew what he provided and knew they were not the only customers.
I honestly think Epstein's whole operation could be better compared to a depraved country club rather than a honeypot operation. I think he provided a despicable pleasure for egomaniacs who only had depravity as an unexplored thrill. And I think it was more than that, becoming something of a community of connected people who participated, empowered, and secured the operation as a whole.
Trump talks about Epstein liking girls on the younger side in 2002. People knew what they were getting into with Epstein. It really does not seem like it was just some incredibly obvious blackmail scam. It would not have been such a giant empire for so long if it was. It wasn't blackmail.
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On July 16 2025 20:44 Velr wrote:
The american fascination with paedophile cults/conspiracies is really something. Reddit has rarely been this entertaining.
Ye they are completely hysterical. They think they live in some True Detective episode.
That being said, it’s nothing new. Again, I think a lot of the Salem trials when i see those reactions. That’s the XVIIth century version of all of that.
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United States43253 Posts
On July 17 2025 05:55 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 05:15 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2025 05:12 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 04:53 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2025 04:41 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 04:14 KwarK wrote:On July 17 2025 03:55 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 02:31 Jankisa wrote:
But if Trump was on it, why didn't the democrats release it. No one has an answer to this. Literally everyone has an answer to this. It's been answered a million times. Clinton. If you want to make that work so it rests just on Clinton and not an Illuminati level total conspiracy, you patch the boat and make a bunch more leaks: 1) The FBI didn't notice Clinton in their investigations of Epstein under GWB, or found it and covered it up to protect him because Clinton being involved in a sexual scandal would be too much for the nation to endure 2) Epstein, famous blackmailer of rich powerful people around the world by selling them kids to rape, when under investigation chose not to flip against one of them to save his ass by giving Clinton up to the GWB FBI in exchange for immunity Now what kind of deep state must there be that has collected child rape proof of all sides of the political aisle, and sides of the pond, and doesn't act on it. And hasn't let anyone leak it. That's possibly the most successful federal operation in history. The mafia don't have that level of loyalty. The nature of the evidence likely makes it impossible to only unmask certain people without it being obvious someone else is being protected. I think that’s the whole point of how this was all designed. Allowing for someone to go rogue and expose individuals would make the whole thing implode and would destroy the extremely critical security they needed. The whole thing being a giant suicide pact where 1 person going down means someone else goes down, which means someone else goes down, means everyone involved is highly incentivized to use the influence and power they have to keep it under wraps forever. Think of it like crowd sourced conspiracy by making sure everyone involved is selfishly motivated to protect others. No one goes down without a cascade, meaning the world’s most powerful people are able to keep it under wraps. There are probably republicans behind the scenes who have taken action to protect Clinton purely out of their own self interests. Trump has likely been covered for by democrats for the same reason. It's not simply "Democrats" and "Republicans." These are FBI agents, attorneys, offices full of people and investigators, including career, and nonpartisan. Even if it were a partisan conspiracy. I understand we have a circular justification for the conspiracy. And that it's so big and perfect, that what other argument can we be expected to make? And that's partially true in nature, that things just exist without regard to how easy or difficult they are to prove. But some of them are quite difficult, and do exist anyways. Like a pile of a few rocks just collapses. But a lot more rocks, perfectly balanced, make an arch. My problem is the supposed keystone in this. He got investigated twice, convicted, sued a bunch of times, and suicided. But it seems he forgot the "giant" part of the "giant suicide pact." He was going and went down. Why didn't he take anybody with him? Was he not the Machiavelli? Whose master plan was it? What the hell happened? Its not clear to me what your point is. You're saying there were no pedo parties or pedo trafficking? It was just Epstein and Maxwell? Okay firstly, Epstein is trafficking already. The two of them, that's trafficking. + Show Spoiler +Telling Ghislaine "Get a minor for me" and then paying them for sex, and then paying the minor to recruit someone else and pay both minors including a recruiting bonus to the minor who found the other minor, which is what he did, repeatedly, is trafficking. By itself. Even if another perpetrator is never charged, that's already trafficking. The way you phrase the question just makes it seem like it's so taken for granted that Epstein is a pedo that the girls belonged to him in some way so when he abused them it wasn't trafficking. It's all trafficking already. If you abuse your own child, you can be a rapist, but not a trafficker. If you attack someone on the street, you aren't a trafficker. If you now are abusing some minor paying them for sex acts, and then say hey Mr. Clinton how about I give you this minor in the back of the plane, and you get the FBI off my back, or Mr. Trump how about I give you this minor and you get me a sweet penthouse deal, or Mr. Derschowitz I don't have enough millions of dollars to pay your defense fee against my sex trafficking charge, how about I pay you with this minor child instead - this is all trafficking too but he's trafficking whether he perpetrates the abuse or whether he gets the benefit in exchange, it's all trafficking, because he's the cause.
*Before someone might misunderstand, I don't buy the allegations that he trafficked minors to his defense lawyer in his sex abuse case, Alan Derschowitz, or to Stephen Hawking or Noam Chomsky or Courtney Love, it's just making fun of the idea everyone ever on his plane or in his contacts is a pedorapist. Not that anyone specifically asserted that now.
You said the point of how it was designed is to be a giant suicide pact. I get it, those things exist. MAD. It's basic game theory. Okay, suppose that's right. I'm saying, it didn't design itself. Who put it together? Epstein seems like the obvious answer. The rich guy with a plane, island, and too much free time that wanted to abuse hundreds of girls and have a breeding farm for himself. However, in that case, the suicide pact as you say, the house of cards if you will, doesn't seem to have fucking worked very well for him, does it? How do we explain that, or don't we need to? Does that not affect our assumptions at all, or it still fits perfectly?
What do you mean it didn't work well for him? He's not in prison.
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United States43253 Posts
On July 17 2025 06:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2025 20:44 Velr wrote:
The american fascination with paedophile cults/conspiracies is really something. Reddit has rarely been this entertaining. Ye they are completely hysterical. They think they live in some True Detective episode. That being said, it’s nothing new. Again, I think a lot of the Salem trials when i see those reactions. That’s the XVIIth century version of all of that.
FYI Ghislaine's father, Robert Maxwell, was a literal Bond villain. The guy in Tomorrow Never Dies was based on him.
If some of this seems like it could be straight out of a tv show or movie then it's because they based movies on the shady shit he did.
I don’t want to believe in secret billionaire pedophile island. My natural inclination is to doubt it. But that becomes a little harder when there is a literal secret billionaire pedophile island.
If the Pope starts turning water into wine then I have to start reconsidering atheism. When the billionaire pedophile is caught in 2005 and then a bunch of things go wrong with the prosecution and he’s released back to his island and goes straight back to it then I have to start reconsidering whether someone has their hands on the scales of justice.
I also don’t want to believe that the world’s richest man is a secret Nazi who buys media companies to push great replacement conspiracy theories but then all that also happened and so here we are.
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On July 17 2025 05:55 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 05:15 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2025 05:12 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 04:53 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2025 04:41 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 04:14 KwarK wrote:On July 17 2025 03:55 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 02:31 Jankisa wrote:
But if Trump was on it, why didn't the democrats release it. No one has an answer to this. Literally everyone has an answer to this. It's been answered a million times. Clinton. If you want to make that work so it rests just on Clinton and not an Illuminati level total conspiracy, you patch the boat and make a bunch more leaks: 1) The FBI didn't notice Clinton in their investigations of Epstein under GWB, or found it and covered it up to protect him because Clinton being involved in a sexual scandal would be too much for the nation to endure 2) Epstein, famous blackmailer of rich powerful people around the world by selling them kids to rape, when under investigation chose not to flip against one of them to save his ass by giving Clinton up to the GWB FBI in exchange for immunity Now what kind of deep state must there be that has collected child rape proof of all sides of the political aisle, and sides of the pond, and doesn't act on it. And hasn't let anyone leak it. That's possibly the most successful federal operation in history. The mafia don't have that level of loyalty. The nature of the evidence likely makes it impossible to only unmask certain people without it being obvious someone else is being protected. I think that’s the whole point of how this was all designed. Allowing for someone to go rogue and expose individuals would make the whole thing implode and would destroy the extremely critical security they needed. The whole thing being a giant suicide pact where 1 person going down means someone else goes down, which means someone else goes down, means everyone involved is highly incentivized to use the influence and power they have to keep it under wraps forever. Think of it like crowd sourced conspiracy by making sure everyone involved is selfishly motivated to protect others. No one goes down without a cascade, meaning the world’s most powerful people are able to keep it under wraps. There are probably republicans behind the scenes who have taken action to protect Clinton purely out of their own self interests. Trump has likely been covered for by democrats for the same reason. It's not simply "Democrats" and "Republicans." These are FBI agents, attorneys, offices full of people and investigators, including career, and nonpartisan. Even if it were a partisan conspiracy. I understand we have a circular justification for the conspiracy. And that it's so big and perfect, that what other argument can we be expected to make? And that's partially true in nature, that things just exist without regard to how easy or difficult they are to prove. But some of them are quite difficult, and do exist anyways. Like a pile of a few rocks just collapses. But a lot more rocks, perfectly balanced, make an arch. My problem is the supposed keystone in this. He got investigated twice, convicted, sued a bunch of times, and suicided. But it seems he forgot the "giant" part of the "giant suicide pact." He was going and went down. Why didn't he take anybody with him? Was he not the Machiavelli? Whose master plan was it? What the hell happened? Its not clear to me what your point is. You're saying there were no pedo parties or pedo trafficking? It was just Epstein and Maxwell? Okay firstly, Epstein is trafficking already. The two of them, that's trafficking. + Show Spoiler +Telling Ghislaine "Get a minor for me" and then paying them for sex, and then paying the minor to recruit someone else and pay both minors including a recruiting bonus to the minor who found the other minor, which is what he did, repeatedly, is trafficking. By itself. Even if another perpetrator is never charged, that's already trafficking. The way you phrase the question just makes it seem like it's so taken for granted that Epstein is a pedo that the girls belonged to him in some way so when he abused them it wasn't trafficking. It's all trafficking already. If you abuse your own child, you can be a rapist, but not a trafficker. If you attack someone on the street, you aren't a trafficker. If you now are abusing some minor paying them for sex acts, and then say hey Mr. Clinton how about I give you this minor in the back of the plane, and you get the FBI off my back, or Mr. Trump how about I give you this minor and you get me a sweet penthouse deal, or Mr. Derschowitz I don't have enough millions of dollars to pay your defense fee against my sex trafficking charge, how about I pay you with this minor child instead - this is all trafficking too but he's trafficking whether he perpetrates the abuse or whether he gets the benefit in exchange, it's all trafficking, because he's the cause.
*Before someone might misunderstand, I don't buy the allegations that he trafficked minors to his defense lawyer in his sex abuse case, Alan Derschowitz, or to Stephen Hawking or Noam Chomsky or Courtney Love, it's just making fun of the idea everyone ever on his plane or in his contacts is a pedorapist. Not that anyone specifically asserted that now.
You said the point of how it was designed is to be a giant suicide pact. I get it, those things exist. MAD. It's basic game theory. Okay, suppose that's right.
I'm saying, it didn't design itself. Who put it together? Epstein seems like the obvious answer. The rich guy with a plane, island, and too much free time that wanted to abuse hundreds of girls and have a breeding farm for himself.
However, in that case, the suicide pact as you say, the house of cards if you will, doesn't seem to have fucking worked very well for him, does it? How do we explain that, or don't we need to? Does that not affect our assumptions at all, or it still fits perfectly?
I'm no writer, but if I was watching the episode, I'd probably presume that whatever "dead man switch" Epstein had set up was coopted in some capacity by Ghislaine. Then I'd expect Trump to pardon her and say anyone that says there's anything sus about that is a woman hating victim blamer.
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United States43253 Posts
On July 17 2025 06:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 05:55 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 05:15 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2025 05:12 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 04:53 Mohdoo wrote:On July 17 2025 04:41 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 04:14 KwarK wrote:On July 17 2025 03:55 oBlade wrote:On July 17 2025 02:31 Jankisa wrote:
But if Trump was on it, why didn't the democrats release it. No one has an answer to this. Literally everyone has an answer to this. It's been answered a million times. Clinton. If you want to make that work so it rests just on Clinton and not an Illuminati level total conspiracy, you patch the boat and make a bunch more leaks: 1) The FBI didn't notice Clinton in their investigations of Epstein under GWB, or found it and covered it up to protect him because Clinton being involved in a sexual scandal would be too much for the nation to endure 2) Epstein, famous blackmailer of rich powerful people around the world by selling them kids to rape, when under investigation chose not to flip against one of them to save his ass by giving Clinton up to the GWB FBI in exchange for immunity Now what kind of deep state must there be that has collected child rape proof of all sides of the political aisle, and sides of the pond, and doesn't act on it. And hasn't let anyone leak it. That's possibly the most successful federal operation in history. The mafia don't have that level of loyalty. The nature of the evidence likely makes it impossible to only unmask certain people without it being obvious someone else is being protected. I think that’s the whole point of how this was all designed. Allowing for someone to go rogue and expose individuals would make the whole thing implode and would destroy the extremely critical security they needed. The whole thing being a giant suicide pact where 1 person going down means someone else goes down, which means someone else goes down, means everyone involved is highly incentivized to use the influence and power they have to keep it under wraps forever. Think of it like crowd sourced conspiracy by making sure everyone involved is selfishly motivated to protect others. No one goes down without a cascade, meaning the world’s most powerful people are able to keep it under wraps. There are probably republicans behind the scenes who have taken action to protect Clinton purely out of their own self interests. Trump has likely been covered for by democrats for the same reason. It's not simply "Democrats" and "Republicans." These are FBI agents, attorneys, offices full of people and investigators, including career, and nonpartisan. Even if it were a partisan conspiracy. I understand we have a circular justification for the conspiracy. And that it's so big and perfect, that what other argument can we be expected to make? And that's partially true in nature, that things just exist without regard to how easy or difficult they are to prove. But some of them are quite difficult, and do exist anyways. Like a pile of a few rocks just collapses. But a lot more rocks, perfectly balanced, make an arch. My problem is the supposed keystone in this. He got investigated twice, convicted, sued a bunch of times, and suicided. But it seems he forgot the "giant" part of the "giant suicide pact." He was going and went down. Why didn't he take anybody with him? Was he not the Machiavelli? Whose master plan was it? What the hell happened? Its not clear to me what your point is. You're saying there were no pedo parties or pedo trafficking? It was just Epstein and Maxwell? Okay firstly, Epstein is trafficking already. The two of them, that's trafficking. + Show Spoiler +Telling Ghislaine "Get a minor for me" and then paying them for sex, and then paying the minor to recruit someone else and pay both minors including a recruiting bonus to the minor who found the other minor, which is what he did, repeatedly, is trafficking. By itself. Even if another perpetrator is never charged, that's already trafficking. The way you phrase the question just makes it seem like it's so taken for granted that Epstein is a pedo that the girls belonged to him in some way so when he abused them it wasn't trafficking. It's all trafficking already. If you abuse your own child, you can be a rapist, but not a trafficker. If you attack someone on the street, you aren't a trafficker. If you now are abusing some minor paying them for sex acts, and then say hey Mr. Clinton how about I give you this minor in the back of the plane, and you get the FBI off my back, or Mr. Trump how about I give you this minor and you get me a sweet penthouse deal, or Mr. Derschowitz I don't have enough millions of dollars to pay your defense fee against my sex trafficking charge, how about I pay you with this minor child instead - this is all trafficking too but he's trafficking whether he perpetrates the abuse or whether he gets the benefit in exchange, it's all trafficking, because he's the cause.
*Before someone might misunderstand, I don't buy the allegations that he trafficked minors to his defense lawyer in his sex abuse case, Alan Derschowitz, or to Stephen Hawking or Noam Chomsky or Courtney Love, it's just making fun of the idea everyone ever on his plane or in his contacts is a pedorapist. Not that anyone specifically asserted that now.
You said the point of how it was designed is to be a giant suicide pact. I get it, those things exist. MAD. It's basic game theory. Okay, suppose that's right.
I'm saying, it didn't design itself. Who put it together? Epstein seems like the obvious answer. The rich guy with a plane, island, and too much free time that wanted to abuse hundreds of girls and have a breeding farm for himself.
However, in that case, the suicide pact as you say, the house of cards if you will, doesn't seem to have fucking worked very well for him, does it? How do we explain that, or don't we need to? Does that not affect our assumptions at all, or it still fits perfectly? I'm no writer, but if I was watching the episode, I'd probably presume that whatever "dead man switch" Epstein had set up was coopted in some capacity by Ghislaine. Then I'd expect Trump to pardon her and say anyone that says there's anything sus about that is a woman hating victim blamer.
If you had a dead man’s switch as Epstein and you didn’t want to go to prison and they didn’t want all the evidence to come out in a trial but they couldn’t exactly just let you go then what would that look like? How would they avoid holding a trial while also avoiding releasing you without charge?
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United States24741 Posts
On July 17 2025 04:29 KwarK wrote:
Sure, not just Clinton. But like Trump, if you tell me Clinton got on the Lolita Express to the underage sex island where their friend, the host of the underage sex parties, was holding underage sex parties for his friends, and then you tell me he was just there for their D&D campaign or whatever then I'm not going to buy it. If he wants the benefit of the doubt then he should have fewer credible accusers and no history of sexual misconduct.
I once made a prostitute my 2:2 partner in broodwar for a match against two of my college roommates on bloodbath. Would you believe it if I told you I didn't pay her, we didn't have sex, she did it out of the goodness of her heart, and we won?
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On July 17 2025 08:16 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 04:29 KwarK wrote:
Sure, not just Clinton. But like Trump, if you tell me Clinton got on the Lolita Express to the underage sex island where their friend, the host of the underage sex parties, was holding underage sex parties for his friends, and then you tell me he was just there for their D&D campaign or whatever then I'm not going to buy it. If he wants the benefit of the doubt then he should have fewer credible accusers and no history of sexual misconduct. I once made a prostitute my 2:2 partner in broodwar for a match against two of my college roommates on bloodbath. Would you believe it if I told you I didn't pay her, we didn't have sex, she did it out of the goodness of her heart, and we won?
This sounds like a Rekrul story
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On July 17 2025 08:16 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 04:29 KwarK wrote:
Sure, not just Clinton. But like Trump, if you tell me Clinton got on the Lolita Express to the underage sex island where their friend, the host of the underage sex parties, was holding underage sex parties for his friends, and then you tell me he was just there for their D&D campaign or whatever then I'm not going to buy it. If he wants the benefit of the doubt then he should have fewer credible accusers and no history of sexual misconduct. I once made a prostitute my 2:2 partner in broodwar for a match against two of my college roommates on bloodbath. Would you believe it if I told you I didn't pay her, we didn't have sex, she did it out of the goodness of her heart, and we won?
Its not clear what you are alluding to here, or the point you are making.
However, I do think your story is believable. Sex workers aren't a huge outlier within the gaming world. Having a friend who is a sex worker and playing 2v2 with them is reasonable. But I don't think I understand your point.
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The MAGA world is so wild right now, and oBlade does not seem like a good representative of it right now for people who do not have actual MAGA people in their lives. The MAGA folk are turning on the Donald pretty hard. For example the babylon bee posted a picture of Trump with the caption "Man Who Vowed to Release Epstein Files Berates Idiots for Believing There Are Epstein Files." They are posting the clips of him saying he might not release it from a while ago, pictures of Trump with Epstein, Pictures of Trump with young girls. Well it is True that Trump probably could have shot someone in the middle of 5th ave and not lose voters. It turns out that this is many of their red lines. Calling his people stupid and idiots for believing the list is not helping him.
Going to be interesting to see how many of the self interested congress people who have a election approaching quickly are going to react. More scared of Trumps retribution or the fall out from Epstein situation. Some hard decisions coming! And it is likely going to matter at the polls. I do not think a bunch of these people will be swapping their votes to Democrats, but not showing up is a real possibility. A lot of republicans were already worried about turnout with Trump not being on a ticket, now that they are pissed at Trump it will be a huge issue.
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United States43253 Posts
On July 17 2025 08:16 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 04:29 KwarK wrote:
Sure, not just Clinton. But like Trump, if you tell me Clinton got on the Lolita Express to the underage sex island where their friend, the host of the underage sex parties, was holding underage sex parties for his friends, and then you tell me he was just there for their D&D campaign or whatever then I'm not going to buy it. If he wants the benefit of the doubt then he should have fewer credible accusers and no history of sexual misconduct. I once made a prostitute my 2:2 partner in broodwar for a match against two of my college roommates on bloodbath. Would you believe it if I told you I didn't pay her, we didn't have sex, she did it out of the goodness of her heart, and we won?
Are you Bill Clinton?
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United States24741 Posts
On July 17 2025 09:10 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2025 08:16 micronesia wrote:On July 17 2025 04:29 KwarK wrote:
Sure, not just Clinton. But like Trump, if you tell me Clinton got on the Lolita Express to the underage sex island where their friend, the host of the underage sex parties, was holding underage sex parties for his friends, and then you tell me he was just there for their D&D campaign or whatever then I'm not going to buy it. If he wants the benefit of the doubt then he should have fewer credible accusers and no history of sexual misconduct. I once made a prostitute my 2:2 partner in broodwar for a match against two of my college roommates on bloodbath. Would you believe it if I told you I didn't pay her, we didn't have sex, she did it out of the goodness of her heart, and we won? Are you Bill Clinton?
If I was, do you really think I would have won the 2:2!?
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EPT
