EPTOn June 08 2025 23:10 KT_Elwood wrote:
Good citizens behave like this
![[image loading]](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/01/13/video/11vid-cvr/11vid-cvr-superJumbo-v2.png?quality=75&auto=webp)
Good citizens behave like this
You nailed the key word.
Citizens.
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oBlade
United States5689 Posts
You nailed the key word. Citizens. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1789 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8576 Posts
On June 08 2025 22:57 oBlade wrote: I don't know what you're talking about. You want federal law enforcement officers in my country not to carry scary equipment and drive scary vehicles because it makes criminals feel nervous. They have that because people have attacked and will attack them. I want shit for brains extremists to stop attacking them, and elected rubes to stop enabling that behavior and stop impeding them. Maybe a result of that would be less scary equipment. Before that, they are not going to adopt a "style" that makes them vulnerable for no reason. The law doesn't say "you can execute warrants and detain people, but you can't look scary while doing it, because leftists need to be able to resist you more easily if they really think you're doing something poopy." For good reason. As for which came first. ICE is a government organization under DHS that used to be part of INS. INS goes back to before the INA of 1952 that most current federal immigration law revolves around. The DHS specifically came out of Bush reorganizing/modernizing federal departments for the war on terror/age of terror, that's where ICE came from. Revolutionary leftists goes back to the Weather Underground in the 60s, and before that the 30s and 40s which was the only time in history they were actually justified in calling themselves antifascists. Even before the US entrance into WW2 people were in tune with global political shifts and US leftists used the Spanish Civil War the way people use Ukraine/Russia now to roleplay a part in a historic struggle. In other words, the violent mob came first, ICE came second, and only the latter has any statutory justification for its existence. I see. and well I am well aware ICE is part of the whole War on Terror infrastructure after 9/11. I think extremists have been around for way longer but sure, why not. you gotta start somewhere. my point was rather do you think the ICE actions - lawful or not (just for now and the sake of argument) provoked the "mob" to come out? was it a mob? did you read the New York Times piece? Antifa is obsolete you think? ties nice into my question from before, you think today's Democrats are more likely to go the "Red Summer" route or today's Republicans? you cannot have it both ways. point to Democrats going full mob/lawless defending minorities today AND racist at Red Summer like events from around 100 years ago. that's quite the stretch to make an argument from. as there was, for instance, a constitutional crisis with Nixon exposed as a crook in between, a crisis making today's lawlessness coming from the White House look like child's play. oh and that whole southern strategy thing where the bigots swapped parties. //edit: not all racists are Republican of course. but if you are a racist, there's a better chance today that he is in the R party than in the D. except when you are into anti-white racism in the US. in that case you are all racist AF I guess. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://img.ifunny.co/images/93b7426d5beaa849d75d680f8787dec079bf647c695f0712b0679a4eab2a134d_1.jpg) | ||
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KT_Elwood
Germany1020 Posts
If you are a citizen and kill a cop tonight, you get a pardon.. and maybe even money should you face ILLEGAL POLITICAL procecution? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23332 Posts
EDIT: I should mention they are threatening to send active duty Marines (after already deploying the National Guard) into California, (both) against the wishes of the democratically elected leaders of California. Earlier Pete Hegseth, Donald Trump’s controversial and hardline defense secretary, had raised the possibility of deploying US marines onto the streets of the Democrat-run state amid the protests that had erupted in the wake of Ice raids in the state. “Under President Trump, violence & destruction against federal agents & federal facilities will NOT be tolerated. It’s COMMON SENSE,” Hegseth wrote on X, the social media platform formerly known as Twitter. “If violence continues, active duty Marines at Camp Pendleton will also be mobilized – they are on high alert,” Hegseth said. Camp Pendleton is a large military base south of Los Angeles and north of San Diego. www.theguardian.com | ||
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Vivax
22057 Posts
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oBlade
United States5689 Posts
On June 09 2025 00:07 KT_Elwood wrote: If you are a citizen and kill a cop tonight, you get a pardon.. and maybe even money should you face ILLEGAL POLITICAL procecution? If you kill a police officer, you should be apprehended if possible and shot if not. On June 09 2025 01:24 GreenHorizons wrote: Let's hope the next parts of Trump's crackdown aren't comparably more extreme than this juxtaposition between "tank man" and ICE running over a protester. Here's another damning visual. Reminds me of Imperial troops in Star Wars. The Empire were the bad guys, right? | ||
KwarK
United States43006 Posts
On June 09 2025 02:08 oBlade wrote: If you kill a police officer, you should be apprehended if possible and shot if not. Eh, if you have a reasonable fear for your life then it's fine to shoot people. Pretty sure that's been established in the US. | ||
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oBlade
United States5689 Posts
On June 09 2025 02:15 KwarK wrote: Eh, if you have a reasonable fear for your life then it's fine to shoot people. Pretty sure that's been established in the US. Let us know when you schedule a test of that hypothesis. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On June 09 2025 02:15 KwarK wrote: Eh, if you have a reasonable fear for your life then it's fine to shoot people. Pretty sure that's been established in the US. Unfortunately "reasonable fear for your life" probably doesn't extend to people whose online echo chambers have convinced them that immigration detention facilities are death camps and ICE are the gestapo rounding people up to the slaughter. | ||
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micronesia
United States24701 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11564 Posts
And of course, they just don't get it, or don't want to get it. Imagine if under Biden, some government agency had started rounding up some of the more insane christian conservative people (who are often quite close to domestic terrorist on the best of days). The same people who are now so happy about goverment agencies using military equipment to suppress people would have decried the whole thing as some horrific attack on their rights (or, they might say something like "let them try" with implied violence should they do so). But suddenly once it is their own guy, and he is hurting mostly leftists and brown people with government oppression, everything is okay. If you have any ounce of reflection left, really consider how you would have viewed a similar but reversed scenario 5 years ago. But of course, that doesn't work, because politics is wrestling and winning is all that counts, having any principles is for suckers because they might make you lose if you try to actually hold yourself to them. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1789 Posts
If I were the person being threatened with the abduction, it would at least cross my mind to shoot first and ask questions later. On June 09 2025 02:49 Simberto wrote: Imagine if under Biden, some government agency had started rounding up some of the more insane christian conservative people (who are often quite close to domestic terrorist on the best of days). The same people who are now so happy about goverment agencies using military equipment to suppress people would have decried the whole thing as some horrific attack on their rights (or, they might say something like "let them try" with implied violence should they do so). But suddenly once it is their own guy, and he is hurting mostly leftists and brown people with government oppression, everything is okay. Far-righters don't care about their blatant hypocrisy. Most of them would laugh in your face for asking this question because they think their spot in the social hierarchy gives them the privilege to be hypocritical with no remorse. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On June 09 2025 02:36 micronesia wrote: That seems like an obvious strawman regarding prevailing concerns with ICE activities. We're not talking about "prevailing concerns with ICE activities." We're talking about killing police officers. In that context I think my inference of Kwark's position is fairly accurate although I'm willing to hear his clarification on the circumstances for when it's reasonable to kill police officers. | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia793 Posts
There are so many examples of obvious fucked up decision making form US police that was approved by their unions, courts and prosecutors that the thing that I'd personally fear the most if I ever visited would be the cops. And before the thin blue line guys come explaining that this is a product of an echo chamber, I'll just plop my favorite recent example here: | ||
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micronesia
United States24701 Posts
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oBlade
United States5689 Posts
On June 09 2025 02:49 Simberto wrote: I gotta say that it is kind of scary how the opinion on government shifts by 180° for some people once the government starts hurting the right people. And of course, they just don't get it, or don't want to get it. Imagine if under Biden, some government agency had started rounding up some of the more insane christian conservative people (who are often quite close to domestic terrorist on the best of days). The same people who are now so happy about goverment agencies using military equipment to suppress people would have decried the whole thing as some horrific attack on their rights (or, they might say something like "let them try" with implied violence should they do so). But suddenly once it is their own guy, and he is hurting mostly leftists and brown people with government oppression, everything is okay. If you have any ounce of reflection left, really consider how you would have viewed a similar but reversed scenario 5 years ago. But of course, that doesn't work, because politics is wrestling and winning is all that counts, having any principles is for suckers because they might make you lose if you try to actually hold yourself to them. Equating "illegal immigrants" to "political opponents" is not a trick that works anymore. Or it's an admission of belief in the invalidity of sovereignty. Detaining people who break the law is different than oppressing people you don't like. Blocking federal agents is not political speech. Neither is it some kind of beautiful Ghandi nonviolent resistance, nor glorious antifa revolution. It's just bored unhinged people, paid stooges, and probably also many sympathetic people with good hearts who are duped but let their good intentions get swept away by forces of anarchy. Leaders should know better - they either don't or are malicious. Anyone who wants to protest for real can get their NGO to pay a flight to DC and they can stage another Million Whatevers March. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21824 Posts
On June 09 2025 02:55 Jankisa wrote: My personal favourite is that a soldier patrolling the streets of Iraq had a higher threshold for the use of lethal force then a police officer in US.Standard for "reasonable fear for your life" has become so warped in the US that it's laughable. There are so many examples of obvious fucked up decision making form US police that was approved by their unions, courts and prosecutors that the thing that I'd personally fear the most if I ever visited would be the cops. And before the thin blue line guys come explaining that this is a product of an echo chamber, I'll just plop my favorite recent example here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKmnJgXyZpU | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On June 09 2025 02:49 Simberto wrote: I gotta say that it is kind of scary how the opinion on government shifts by 180° for some people once the government starts hurting the right people. And of course, they just don't get it, or don't want to get it. Imagine if under Biden, some government agency had started rounding up some of the more insane christian conservative people (who are often quite close to domestic terrorist on the best of days). The same people who are now so happy about goverment agencies using military equipment to suppress people would have decried the whole thing as some horrific attack on their rights (or, they might say something like "let them try" with implied violence should they do so). But suddenly once it is their own guy, and he is hurting mostly leftists and brown people with government oppression, everything is okay. If you have any ounce of reflection left, really consider how you would have viewed a similar but reversed scenario 5 years ago. But of course, that doesn't work, because politics is wrestling and winning is all that counts, having any principles is for suckers because they might make you lose if you try to actually hold yourself to them. There's a lot of really good "What would Republicans response be if Democrats had done this..." to highlight their hypocrisy but this is a rather nonsensical one. You're comparing arresting illegal immigrants for deportation to arresting Christian conservative people for... what exactly? You don't even need to make a ridiculous apples to oranges comparison here because it's not like deporting illegal immigrants is some novel Trump thing (Obama has the high score) and suppressing riots is not new either. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1789 Posts
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