EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4846
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43830 Posts
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Impervious
Canada4177 Posts
And I'm saying this as someone who visited Kentucky within the last year. I was there for work. While I was there, I was treated very well by everyone I met. I had the best fried chicken I've ever had while I was there. I tried a number of different bourbons, and I absolutely love the stuff from Woodford Reserve. I brought a specialty bottle home with me, as well as some of their bourbon chocolates for my girlfriend. I enjoyed it so much that I bought multiple bottles of theirs as gifts for friends and family. I was in Texas a week ago for another work trip. Normally I'd go out to some nicer restaurants, maybe bring something home with me to signify my trip. Not this time. I'm intentionally going to spend less in any future trip. I do a lot of work for USA customers, and I'm going to be going back multiple times in the near future, and while I'm going to do the work I was hired to do, I'm going to be spending as little as possible while I'm there. Even if Ford put the booze back on the shelves, I'm not going to buy it any time soon. I'll buy more booze from Europe or Australia instead. Same with every other product I can possibly buy from elsewhere. That bridge has been burned, and it's going to take a while to rebuild any kind of trust I have with the USA, even if it's possible anymore. And I know I'm not the only Canadian with this view. Trump showed that we can't rely on the USA as a trading partner anymore. Our industries will adjust eventually to be more self-sufficient and we'll trade more with Europe and Asia to make up the shortfalls. It'll be a rough few years, I'm sure, but we'll manage. Trump campaigned on doing stuff like these tariffs. The USA voted for him as their president. They voted a majority in congress. They voted a majority in the senate. They gave him a mandate to do exactly this kind of thing, so it really shouldn't surprise people that he's doing this kind of thing. And it really shouldn't surprise you that people are going to fight back against it. You guys voted in someone who would intentionally do economic harm to my country. I can't forgive that. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23943 Posts
On March 12 2025 08:45 BlackJack wrote: Flip the script and let’s pretend that the US passed a law or constitutional amendment giving Trumps Supreme Court authority to demand posts be deleted and users be banned. Let’s imagine John Robert’s first order of business is to demand Nazgûl ban Gorsameth and arrest any TL.net representatives in the US if they fail to do so because Gorsameth is a danger to the union. Does anyone believe Gorsameth would be saying “This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. This has to do with Nazgûl failing to comply with lawful court orders to ban me.” Does anyone think we’d have posts like Nazgûl needs to understand that Dutch interpretation of freedom of speech doesn’t apply universally? Right… I’m sure there would be no mention of fascism… or freedom of speech… That’s a lot of what-ifs. If I decided to form a company called the ‘Freedom Loving, Needlessly Gigantic Gas-Guzzling All-American No Safety Features Automobile Concern’ and my products did exactly what they said on that tin, I’m not going to be able to export to Europe with their regulatory standards. I can’t really complain about that if I flout every regulatory standard going. Twitter is a US company, it is not ‘free speech, the entity’. If it wants to do business in certain locales it has the option of playing ball, or it has the option of not playing ball and not doing that business. One can discuss the wisdom of those particular laws and frameworks, 100%. Just not from a starting point of ‘Twitter can do whatever it wants, wherever it wants because free speech’. I know for a fact UK regulators aren’t happy with them, although it’s not especially regarding freedom of speech in many cases. However, on the flip side, and almost forgotten these days since it’s become a cesspit of mis/disinformation, Twitter used to be the platform to agitate and organise a fair fucking few protest movements the world over, some more successful than others. So I don’t think necessarily kowtowing to every government demand is ideal either. It’s a complicated balancing act of factors. It’s precisely why I think there should be some kind of basic, standardised framework on how such companies operate, with both protections as well as obligations. GDPR isn’t perfect by any means, but it’s protected some consumers in a way that never would have been voluntarily done, and is backed by enough weight by number of nations it kinda forces others into line. I think there’s absolutely censorship zealots out there, I think more broadly outside of perhaps the US (in the West) the general appetite is to keep freedom of speech, but there are associated issues there. Issues people are sick of fucking dealing with while people who advocate that ‘the free marketplace of ideas will filter the truth out’ are continually proven wrong. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16466 Posts
On March 12 2025 09:40 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Half the DoE has been removed: https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/department-education-faces-50-layoffs-after-closure-notice/story?id=119690524 Some added context here... Linda McMahon is Vince McMahon's wife. Vince owned the WWF/WWE from 1984 to around 2021. Linda was a big part of the WWE's success. She is super smart. She is the education secretary. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43830 Posts
On March 12 2025 09:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Some added context here... Linda McMahon is Vince McMahon's wife. Vince owned the WWF/WWE from 1984 to around 2021. Linda was a big part of the WWE's success. She is super smart. She is the education secretary. Being smart when it comes to one thing does NOT necessarily translate into being smart with another thing. Betsy DeVos was probably good at *something*, but she had no expertise when it came to the DoE. Same with Linda McMahon. I know you like wrestling, but she's not running the Department of Wrestling. She's running the Department of Education. Into the ground. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16466 Posts
On March 12 2025 09:55 Impervious wrote: Trump campaigned on doing stuff like these tariffs. The USA voted for him as their president. They voted a majority in congress. They voted a majority in the senate. They gave him a mandate to do exactly this kind of thing, so it really shouldn't surprise people that he's doing this kind of thing. And it really shouldn't surprise you that people are going to fight back against it. You guys voted in someone who would intentionally do economic harm to my country. I can't forgive that. Not forgiving ... weighs on you man. And the tariffs in place currently do economic harm to Americans. And Canada constantly assuming the USA will protect all of NA does economic harm to the US taxpayer who must fund a military that defends the continent alone. If Parliament ever opens again... Canada needs to make a deal. It is crazy how long Parliament has been prorogued. Huge malpractice by the governing party... | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23943 Posts
On March 12 2025 09:30 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Sorry for changing the subject to something way off topic here guys... Trump said he respected Doug Ford's decision to back off of 25% export tariffs on electricity. Some nice diplomacy on Trump's part. Ford should direct the LCBO to put American alcohol back on its shelves. The people of Kentucky and Tennessee should not be collateral damage in this trade dispute. The reality is Jews have to weigh the probability of being killed any place they go. Always been that way and it will never change. People saying "well it shouldn't be that way" are not helping. The imperfect solution is to find the best, yet imperfect locale and go and live there. It is fascinating how foreign this approach is to many posters on here. Jimmy, in the politest way possible, fuck up. You can’t simultaneously shout down anyone critical of the US by stating ‘actually it’s a great place to live, you’re being myopic and detached from reality’ and claiming Jews are risking life and limb every day no matter where they go. It’s completely, utterly ridiculous. Man Mel Brooks sure as fuck has done well to last as long as he has with all these pogroms about! Meanwhile in the UK in the recent past we had nationwide riots sparked against Muslims based on bollocks on Twitter. And not just Muslims, ya look brown? Good luck. Serious assaults, businesses burned down, all that ‘good stuff’. I do think that anti-Semitism is rearing its ugly head more and more in recent years, on both sides of the political spectrum, and that it’s something to be concerned about. But you’re less over-egging it as making a dish with nothing but eggs here. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23943 Posts
On March 12 2025 10:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Not forgiving ... weighs on you man. And the tariffs in place currently do economic harm to Americans. And Canada constantly assuming the USA will protect all of NA does economic harm to the US taxpayer who must fund a military that defends the continent alone. If Parliament ever opens again... Canada needs to make a deal. It is crazy how long Parliament has been prorogued. Huge malpractice by the governing party... Protect North America from what? | ||
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Impervious
Canada4177 Posts
On March 12 2025 10:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Not forgiving ... weighs on you man. And the tariffs in place currently do economic harm to Americans. And Canada constantly assuming the USA will protect all of NA does economic harm to the US taxpayer who must fund a military that defends the continent alone. It doesn't weigh on me. It disappoints me. You're right about the military thing. We used to do a lot of good in the world with our peacekeeping efforts because we had a decent military up until the Harper years, where it all fell apart. That was one of the reasons Harper got the boot, only for Trudeau to not bother picking up the pieces. I've wanted to see us build up our military back to what it was for many years now. Maybe this is the wake-up call our country needed. It's not that I want to see us use it in a war, but it is definitely a deterrent to enemies, and we were able to use it for a lot of good around the world too. On the same note though, the USA has received a lot of both military and non-military help from Canada too, especially in the last couple of decades. Remember 9/11 and the aftermath? I have a family member who used to work in one of those towers, who thankfully wasn't working that day. We provided a lot of support that day, and in the coming years in Afghanistan. How about the rise in natural disasters like wildfires and hurricanes, where we send people and equipment to help? These are happening at both higher rates and higher intensities, and with population growth, are more likely to impact more people each time. While the USA spends way more on military than we do, they also seem to spend less than enough on the equipment and workers needed to deal with natural disasters. We've been providing a lot of support for the USA in these times of need too. I guess we should reconsider our assistance here, as it costs our taxpayers? We've been there in times of need. Because we've been good neighbors, relatively speaking. We're also lucky in that we have vast natural, mineral, and energy resources. We've been selling them, sometimes below international market rates, to the USA because it's been easier. You could easily argue that we are subsidizing the USA by selling them for below market rates, which the USA processes and turns around to sell some of it back to us, but until now, it's been beneficial to both parties. | ||
micronesia
United States24581 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23943 Posts
On March 12 2025 09:10 Introvert wrote: I haven't looked into this guy's case in particular but since we are posting about laws now and their intersection with free speech I would point out that the power to deport someone is quite strong. If this guy was *merely* saying Israel was a genocidal state than I would wish he was never allowed here but would probably be against deporting him. Again though, don't know what he actually did. Students who do break the law, by either taking over buildings or harassing Jewish students should probably be deported though. I'm not a 60s leftist. But you are right, there is a huge double standard here. I won't weep if any of these people are deported the only reason I worry precisely because the shoe is often on the other foot. A lesson many on the left are incapable of learning. I think it must be a core, if unstated and subliminal, part of that worldview. It’s not really a matter of principle if the worry is ‘if the shoe is on the other foot’ though. Although, the rest of your post reads otherwise, but plenty do think like that. On harassment, if that happened, then sure. I personally think anti-abortion folks have all the right in the world to protest, outside of harassing women in and around abortion clinics. That’s my personal line there. If bystanding Jewish students were targeted, including perhaps also those who aren’t even pro-Israel, then yeah. Not cool. To put it mildly. I dislike the state of Israel’s actions in certain domains pretty intensely myself, but for one, this is a shitty thing to do. Two, opponents of Israeli policy have to fight to separate that from accusations of anti-Semitism, all the time. If protestors are actively behaving in a way that conjoins them again, it makes it that much harder for the likes of myself. So fuck that. It’s my understanding the wheels were already turning, at least in terms of college disciplinary proceedings, and perhaps legal ones (unsure on that), already. I did a bit of scanning, I haven’t deep-dived. It’s really the difference between that process occurring, and perhaps criminal transgressions being found, and this individual being deported, versus someone in the State department unilaterally demanding they be deported. For whatever reason that may be, and I think many have probably accurately figured that out via speculation, although lack any smoking gun of evidence in that regard. I’m unsure what the double standard here really is. It’s oft-invoked, and I think oft-wrongly. Not always, but often. Are there really that many direct left analogues from the past few years for what we’re seeing in the first few months with Trump? I’d argue not really. In spirit perhaps, but not from individuals with comparable power. I’ll grant the Hunter Biden suppression/interference in that domain, incidentally I was personally against that, and vocalised it at the time. But I would implore those on the centre thru right, yanno what I think some on the left got some of these questions wrong. Some, malicious but the majority are at least trying to do right, even if misjudged. For some elusive greater good or whatever. Don’t cut your collective noses off to spite us lefties, if these are things you care about. Forget about us entirely, and look at the Orange King and what he’s getting up to, and judge according to your own sensibilities. There’s not even the vaguest pretence that he’s behaving for some greater good or collective principle. Immaterial in actuality, but unbelievably instructive of this regime, removing outlets from the intimate press corps (can’t remember the actual name) because they didn’t go with ‘Gulf of America’. It’s so thin-skinned, petty and pointlessly vindictive, so contemptuous of the whole role of the Fourth Estate, and over something so asinine. The fuck is he going to do with any actual serious threat to him and his power? I’ll also add that if Biden had renamed it something ‘woke’ and wrote an Executive Order to that effect. And got salty with the press for not playing ball, people would have lambasted him. And they should | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23943 Posts
On March 12 2025 10:52 micronesia wrote: So do we think the government is going to shut down? It looks like it's up to the senate democrats to decide whether to keep the government open. Is there going to be anyone left to even run the government? Joking aside, hm. I’ve zero idea I gotta say. The Dems don’t exactly hold many cards at the minute. When that particular shoe has been on the other foot, we’ve seen it, or the threat of it being leveraged. On the other hand, it doesn’t feel as impactful a trump card as it might otherwise be, given this regime seem to want to gut big chunks of the government anyway. How much is ‘the government’ here as per ‘government shutdown’, I’m actually not 100% sure? The Dems have done the square root of fuck all thus far to really oppose this agenda. I’m torn between almost thing they have to do so at some point, while being cognisant that it may backfire at this particular juncture and they end up with even less momentum. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7130 Posts
Three cheers for Cyberpunk dystopia, where all of the worst parts are real but noone gets cool cyber implants and probably noone will be allowed to dye their hair cool colors. https://gizmodo.com/tech-execs-are-pushing-trump-to-build-freedom-cities-run-by-corporations-2000574510 A new lobbying group, dubbed the Freedom Cities Coalition, wants to convince President Trump and Congress to authorize the creation of new special development zones within the U.S. These zones would allow wealthy investors to write their own laws and set up their own governance structures which would be corporately controlled and wouldn’t involve a traditional bureaucracy. The new zones could also serve as a testbed for weird new technologies without the need for government oversight. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23943 Posts
On March 12 2025 11:21 Zambrah wrote: The Curtis Yarvin playbook shit trying to get its gears to grinding. Company towns but probably worse, would not be surprised to see this actually exist during the next few years, lmao. Three cheers for Cyberpunk dystopia, where all of the worst parts are real but noone gets cool cyber implants and probably noone will be allowed to dye their hair cool colors. https://gizmodo.com/tech-execs-are-pushing-trump-to-build-freedom-cities-run-by-corporations-2000574510 Can there at least be a cool noir vibe? | ||
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Zambrah
United States7130 Posts
The noirest vibe allowed will be whatever Elon Musk is putting off | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22739 Posts
On March 12 2025 11:21 Zambrah wrote: The Curtis Yarvin playbook shit trying to get its gears to grinding. Company towns but probably worse, would not be surprised to see this actually exist during the next few years, lmao. Three cheers for Cyberpunk dystopia, where all of the worst parts are real but noone gets cool cyber implants and probably noone will be allowed to dye their hair cool colors. https://gizmodo.com/tech-execs-are-pushing-trump-to-build-freedom-cities-run-by-corporations-2000574510 GH: They will be the nicest places in the country, if not the world to live too, at first. Sorta like a city sized version of the fancy tech workplaces that are full of amenities. Capitalists know the US desperately needs new infrastructure. It makes a lot more sense from their perspective for them to build it and own it privately than to pay taxes to rebuild the US's existing infrastructure and have to share it with the rest of society. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7130 Posts
On March 12 2025 12:15 GreenHorizons wrote: GH: They will be the nicest places in the country, if not the world to live too, at first. Sorta like a city sized version of the fancy tech workplaces that are full of amenities. Capitalists know the US desperately needs new infrastructure. It makes a lot more sense from their perspective for them to build it and own it privately than to pay taxes to rebuild the US's existing infrastructure and have to share it with the rest of society. I dunno, I think itll be like that for the corporate overlord, but I think whatever workers they attract will have the "luxury building!" vibe where its all stick construction, most basic possible granite countertops, cheap to build, not genuinely nice, but looks nice enough that they feel good charging 3000 dollars a month for a two bed one bath if youre lucky. They're too incompetent to get anything truly nice done. Too cheap and greedy for it, too. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22739 Posts
On March 12 2025 13:02 Zambrah wrote: I dunno, I think itll be like that for the corporate overlord, but I think whatever workers they attract will have the "luxury building!" vibe where its all stick construction, most basic possible granite countertops, cheap to build, not genuinely nice, but looks nice enough that they feel good charging 3000 dollars a month for a two bed one bath if youre lucky. They're too incompetent to get anything truly nice done. Too cheap and greedy for it, too. GH: You're not wrong, it just has to be less bad than what is available elsewhere. Without these capitalists paying taxes, what's left of the US's infrastructure will crumble pretty quickly, except insofar as it serves these technofuedalist fiefdoms. These fiefdoms will also be heavily subsidized/luxurified to lure people in like an Uber service. Once they've destroyed the competition (where the rest of us live), they'll exploit their monopoly control over functioning infrastructure to extract maximum rent until they finally go too far and are removed from power against their will and/or it all implodes. There isn't a functional opposing party to this agenda in the US so people will mostly just distract themselves with the "pwn the lib/MAGA" game and watch it happen it seems. | ||
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Husyelt
United States815 Posts
On March 10 2025 05:18 GreenHorizons wrote: ThirdHorizons: Disagree with what exactly? Are Bernie's vanity rallies going to get anyone elected? Are they going pass any legislation? No. It's exactly the kind of "optics" focused tactic Legan was accusing us Third Way Democrats of. Jeffries and Schumer have been the ones getting everything done. Democrats haven't done anything for years without the indispensable contributions of Jeffries and more so Schumer. Bernie and his supporters have been like the annoying younger sibling you hand the unplugged controller to so you two can hang out together and not get in trouble. But they had to pick a fight about which game we were playing (Palestine+). Now we're both in trouble, the game got thrown out the window, and neither of us will get to play anything again unless our petulant progressive/green/socialist/etc siblings stop crying, suck it up, and fall in line behind the only real strategy for winning in 2026 and 2028. You mistake end results with the slow burn embers my friend. Bernie is doing more than any democrat atm (AOC close behind). Jeffries and Schumer are corporate fuck heads who would gladly accept the new status quo of being tiny little finger muscles in the arm of a congress that flexes to grant Elon and Trump whatever part of the purse that should be Congress's. I thought you were better than this? I'm doing my part, where is the Left SR faction when you need them? | ||
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decafchicken
United States19938 Posts
On March 12 2025 14:10 GreenHorizons wrote: GH: You're not wrong, it just has to be less bad than what is available elsewhere. Without these capitalists paying taxes, what's left of the US's infrastructure will crumble pretty quickly, except insofar as it serves these technofuedalist fiefdoms. These fiefdoms will also be heavily subsidized/luxurified to lure people in like an Uber service. Once they've destroyed the competition (where the rest of us live), they'll exploit their monopoly control over functioning infrastructure to extract maximum rent until they finally go too far and are removed from power against their will and/or it all implodes. There isn't a functional opposing party to this agenda in the US so people will mostly just distract themselves with the "pwn the lib/MAGA" game and watch it happen it seems. You're really selling them short. They will have taxpayers fund it and corporations control it, like how Chicago parking is controlled by Morgan Stanley and the UAE 🥲 | ||
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