EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4634
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3709 Posts
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Ryzel
United States519 Posts
Your correct emotional response to Biden’s pardon is whatever your response would be if Trump did the same thing. For me that’s jaded ambivalence, but YMMV. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35091 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria3709 Posts
On December 02 2024 23:16 Ryzel wrote: This news is disappointing, but not at all shocking. The thing that stands out to me is how salient the cognitive dissonance is in partisans; the Trumpers who are pearl clutching right now are clearly disingenuous when we all know they won’t give a shit when Trump had and will continue to abuse his presidential position in a similar way for personal/nepotistic gains, and anti-Trumpers who are minimizing and whatabouting the pardon are just as disingenuous when we all know the whole reason they’re supposedly anti-Trump is for doing shit just like this. Your correct emotional response to Biden’s pardon is whatever your response would be if Trump did the same thing. For me that’s jaded ambivalence, but YMMV. Hunter's 3 charges are related to guns and drugs and the sentencing would've likely been in the 16 months region. The oft named 25 years are the max sentence which wouldn't have applied to him. Furthermore Hunter would've still been open for state prosecution. Biden could only immunize him from federal charges, nothing beyond that. 34 of Trump's charges led to a conviction. He's president-elect, not just the son of a president. Whataboutism would apply if people minimized Hunter's charges. But the comparison is to a much more severe case with the absolute highest profile person in Trump. People are pointing out that Trump is a hundred times worse than Hunter and therefore it's comparing apples to oranges. That's not whataboutism or any kind of minimization. The claim is that Biden is as bad as Trump based on Hunter's pardon. That's complete nonsense. | ||
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KT_Elwood
700 Posts
Naturalize all Undocumented people and given them false papertrail. Gift an ICBM armed submarine to Selesnkiy (1 Warhead for moscow, 1 wahread for Mar-A-Lago, 1 Warhead for St. Petersburg, 1 Warhead for Trump Tower, 1 Warhead for moscow.. ) Make banks shred documentation of student loan... and medical debt. | ||
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Impervious
Canada4172 Posts
On December 02 2024 23:37 Magic Powers wrote: Hunter's 3 charges are related to guns and drugs and the sentencing would've likely been in the 16 months region. The oft named 25 years are the max sentence which wouldn't have applied to him. Furthermore Hunter would've still been open for state prosecution. Biden could only immunize him from federal charges, nothing beyond that. 34 of Trump's charges led to a conviction. He's president-elect, not just the son of a president. Whataboutism would apply if people minimized Hunter's charges. But the comparison is to a much more severe case with the absolute highest profile person in Trump. People are pointing out that Trump is a hundred times worse than Hunter and therefore it's comparing apples to oranges. That's not whataboutism or any kind of minimization. The claim is that Biden is as bad as Trump based on Hunter's pardon. That's complete nonsense. Regarding Hunter's charges, data shows that the government almost never charges people for these criminal offenses. The amount of times people fraudulently complete the paperwork and get charged for it is a fraction of a percent of the time. And, of those that do get charged for it, the vast majority get dealt with in a plea deal of some kind, and never reach a trial. Even the 16 month sentence is an incredibly rare outcome. His trial was a show. It was a political circus. I'm not surprised that Hunter was pardoned, and I think it was a stupid move politically for Biden to promise that he wouldn't do it. Of course he would. On the other side, Trump may have been convicted of 34 crimes, but it's basically just 34 instances of the same crime. And if he had used personal funds instead of campaign funds it would have been legal. It was incredibly stupid of him, but equally the trial was really overblown. It was also a political circus. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23804 Posts
On December 02 2024 23:16 Ryzel wrote: This news is disappointing, but not at all shocking. The thing that stands out to me is how salient the cognitive dissonance is in partisans; the Trumpers who are pearl clutching right now are clearly disingenuous when we all know they won’t give a shit when Trump had and will continue to abuse his presidential position in a similar way for personal/nepotistic gains, and anti-Trumpers who are minimizing and whatabouting the pardon are just as disingenuous when we all know the whole reason they’re supposedly anti-Trump is for doing shit just like this. Your correct emotional response to Biden’s pardon is whatever your response would be if Trump did the same thing. For me that’s jaded ambivalence, but YMMV. Yeah what can I say, it’s rather disappointing to see. What is the original rationale for such a system even existing in the first place? Is it designed to counteract politically motivated convictions or what is its actual purpose? I understand the reason for various checks and balances and the separation of powers, even if I don’t think they necessarily function as intended today. A unilateral ability to circumvent legal process seems an odd one to be in the Executive’s wheelhouse | ||
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Zambrah
United States7119 Posts
Can't even begin to give a shit about this given the state of US politics over the last ~decade lol | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway613 Posts
I’m ridin with the Biden on this one. | ||
KwarK
United States41980 Posts
On December 02 2024 22:19 oBlade wrote: Hunter has now been pardoned for crimes that Blumpf was impeached for pursuing the investigation of. The wheels of justice seem to have their tires deflate when a Democrat is the passenger. Surely you don’t believe this and don’t think that any of us will believe it. Trump was impeached for taking money that was authorized by Congress for a specific purpose and interfering in its disbursement to demand favours in exchange for releasing the money. Bribing people with taxpayer money. Embezzlement. That kind of shit. | ||
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Azuzu
United States340 Posts
On December 02 2024 22:33 Jockmcplop wrote: Everyone should be hugely against this. Its pure hypocrisy, and its using one's power for personal gain, which is a form of corruption (by my definition of corruption anyway) - although clearly not in law. There's really no defending it. The Democrats just cede more ground to Trump and give him more options to do whatever the hell he wants when in power. Again, Trump has already shown he has no qualms pardoning whoever he fancies, norms be damned. Including family. Hunter was targeted as a sort of boogeyman by Republicans despite committing fairly minor crimes. They would never, ever let him rest and would continue an eternal investigation against him purely because of who he is politically. Nothing would ever be enough until he was convicted of treason. From that perspective, I don't have any problem with the pardon. The fact that our criminal justice system can be weaponized by politicians is absolutely a flaw and it's a shame other people will not get the same respite but the degree of targeting Hunter received is absolutely next level. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22696 Posts
Combine that with the bipartisan disregard for international law and it's abundantly clear the US is not a "Nation of laws" I have 0 confidence Democrats, Republicans, or their supporters will update their worldview accordingly. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9344 Posts
On December 03 2024 03:05 Azuzu wrote: Again, Trump has already shown he has no qualms pardoning whoever he fancies, norms be damned. Including family. Hunter was targeted as a sort of boogeyman by Republicans despite committing fairly minor crimes. They would never, ever let him rest and would continue an eternal investigation against him purely because of who he is politically. Nothing would ever be enough until he was convicted of treason. From that perspective, I don't have any problem with the pardon. The fact that our criminal justice system can be weaponized by politicians is absolutely a flaw and it's a shame other people will not get the same respite but the degree of targeting Hunter received is absolutely next level. I'm not sure "Well Trump did it" is quite the argument ending insight you seem to think it is. We all know Trump did it. We all argued against this behaviour from Trump. I personally argued against Trump doing because I think it is wrong, not because he's on the other team. Its amazing how people's perception allow them to justify things. Let's try out some hypotheticals: Putin pardons his friend who is being accused of corruption by Putin's opposition or whatever's left of it. What is your opinion? Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman has pardoned his son who is accused of killing a journalist with information on him, what is your opinion? Trump pardon's his son after the Dems accuse him of being part of organising Jan. 6. What is your opinion? Is your first instinct to try and justify any of these hypothetical pardons the way you have justified Biden's? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23804 Posts
On December 03 2024 03:26 GreenHorizons wrote: However people want to rationalize supporting Biden or Trump, it's clear now that the notion that "No one is above the law" is patently false. Combine that with the bipartisan disregard for international law and it's abundantly clear the US is not a "Nation of laws" I have 0 confidence Democrats, Republicans, or their supporters will update their worldview accordingly. Here here. | ||
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Introvert
United States4659 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11327 Posts
But actually, yeah. That pardon looks very corrupt and shitty. I am not a fan of that move. Also not a fan of presidential pardons as a concept in general. | ||
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Vivax
21788 Posts
On December 02 2024 23:49 KT_Elwood wrote: Biden needs to absolutely trash the "guardrails". Naturalize all Undocumented people and given them false papertrail. Gift an ICBM armed submarine to Selesnkiy (1 Warhead for moscow, 1 wahread for Mar-A-Lago, 1 Warhead for St. Petersburg, 1 Warhead for Trump Tower, 1 Warhead for moscow.. ) Make banks shred documentation of student loan... and medical debt. You can‘t just erase debt. Someone‘s got to pay for it. If it‘s the tax payer‘s it wouldn‘t be fair to others who also had to pay off loans. Increasing public funding for higher education or lowering its cost works. But that‘s sOciAliSm | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10028 Posts
Really the only major thing about this is that the grift is now complete for Nate Silver. Dude was always starting to push right wing propaganda, he can finally do it out in the open without needing to pretend to be an unbiased source. Fuck him. | ||
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micronesia
United States24574 Posts
On December 03 2024 05:18 Vivax wrote: You can‘t just erase debt. Someone‘s got to pay for it. If it‘s the tax payer‘s it wouldn‘t be fair to others who also had to pay off loans. Increasing public funding for higher education or lowering its cost works. But that‘s sOciAliSm I guess you didn't even dignify the more outrageous suggestions from that post with a response lol. It literally talks about pointing american-made nuclear weapons at New York and Florida. As someone who passed through NYC a few hours ago, I care a bit more about New York, but still. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3709 Posts
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