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I think Bernie Sanders very often accurately diagnoses problems in the USA. It is his treatment protocols with which I disagree.
Overall, I think Sanders is great. For a theory guy his view of the streets is very good.
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Northern Ireland26795 Posts
On November 07 2024 03:44 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2024 02:43 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2024 02:42 RvB wrote:On November 07 2024 02:02 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2024 01:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On November 07 2024 01:18 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 01:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On November 07 2024 01:13 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 01:03 Uldridge wrote:
What is the average knowledge gap between economic experts and your average working man?
I fear the gap is so large that whatever they may say just doesn't matter. Trump is "getting stuff done".
Forget macro economic cycles that take 20 years to play out or whatever the fuck, they want stuff done NOW. And he did that and Biden didn't. That's how you lose I guess. The knowledge gap seems to be entirety of the experts knowledge. As in the average working man has absolutely 0 clue how anything economic works. And yet it's those working men you need to convince to vote for your economic plan, or else win their vote some other way. How's the old saying go? The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter? This is how it works. It doesnt have to make sense. But it's the reality of the system we've chosen for ourselves. That's why the guy who just lies and shouts bullshit won. You don't need to explain it to them, in fact explaining it just makes them more confused. Just lie, its easier and you don't get punished for it. No see this is the part the Democrats don't understand. Republicans already have a lock on the party of liars. They're in bed with the Christian Right. They will NEVER lose that block of voters ever as long as they continue to promise to promote conservative judges. That's the only thing the Christian Right needs to keep voting for them forever. Democrats need to be the party that explains things, that makes them make sense. If they are just the guys shouting bullshit to counter the Republicans' bullshit then that causes voter turn out among moderates and more educated liberals to crater. Democrats need to win the game correctly. It's difficult but it's the only way they will ever win. Getting into mud throwing contests with the Republicans benefits them and ONLY them. On November 07 2024 01:27 NewSunshine wrote:On November 07 2024 01:17 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 01:14 EnDeR_ wrote:On November 07 2024 00:56 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 00:44 EnDeR_ wrote:
I wonder if Trump's base enthusiasm will be dented when the Trump tax cuts expire in the middle of his new term. I'm sure they will find a way to push that back But wouldn't that massively increase the deficit? Isn't that supposed to be bad for the economy? Republicans only care about the deficit when a Democrat is in the White House. See the deficit under Trump increasing every year. Democrats need to 1000% embrace the Republican tactic of using whatever you can find to bludgeon the other party over the head at all times, regardless of the hypocrisy or the facts. Don't give them room to breathe. The only reason R's get any airtime when they bang on about hypocrisy is because we let them. Jump down their throats and don't let them breathe in the rhetorical space. Democrats have policy that makes things better and they know it. But people don't give a shit about policy, they respond to charisma and "fight". Democrats have been so scared of looking like they might be fighting back that they left the floor open to Trump. They should be rallying and holding addresses to the nation on a weekly basis. Call Republicans out for the fucking spineless cowards they are and stand up on their own two feet as a party. But also, they should've been doing this since January 2021. If we forget about January 6th it's because the Democrats decided it wasn't that big of a deal. Fuck. I’m with Vindicare here. Trump’s own party can’t replicate his shtick, hence him trouncing primaries, the Dems have even less chance. As you all know I rarely use analogies, but I’m quite a reserved, deadpan, sarcastic kinda guy. One of my best friends is Mr Extrovert, could arrange a date in the 5 minutes he meets some girl at a bus stop etc etc. He may have had more luck with the ladies, and a totally different kind than kinda my type, but hey I have a niche and did alright. If I had started emulating him, it would have been a disaster as it’s not my manner, and the kinda girls I like also don’t really like the whole ‘alpha male’ shtick either. I think you can go on the attack, but in a different style. We need Bernie Sanders to run again. That’s my plan. Not Bernard Sandals specifically, I kid but that for me is the vague model. 1) He didn’t pull punches 2) He attacked the problems that many people suffer from, but crucially in a more systemic, non-personal fashion 3) He directly linked his critiques with easy to understand solutions 4) Not 100% effectively, but he largely sidestepped too much ‘culture war’ stuff 5) People liked him, or, at least considered him a decent or principled bloke You can still maintain a passion, some moral outrage that resonates while not diving headfirst into the same sty as a Donald Trump. Bernie Sanders could not even win the Democratic primary. If the Democratic party wants that type of candidate they're truly out of ideas. Ah yes, Kamala Harris noted Democratic primary winner lmao I doubt Harris was anyone's preferred candidate. There really was not much of a choice because Biden dropped out way too late. Show nested quote +On November 07 2024 02:51 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2024 02:42 RvB wrote:On November 07 2024 02:02 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2024 01:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On November 07 2024 01:18 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 01:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On November 07 2024 01:13 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 01:03 Uldridge wrote:
What is the average knowledge gap between economic experts and your average working man?
I fear the gap is so large that whatever they may say just doesn't matter. Trump is "getting stuff done".
Forget macro economic cycles that take 20 years to play out or whatever the fuck, they want stuff done NOW. And he did that and Biden didn't. That's how you lose I guess. The knowledge gap seems to be entirety of the experts knowledge. As in the average working man has absolutely 0 clue how anything economic works. And yet it's those working men you need to convince to vote for your economic plan, or else win their vote some other way. How's the old saying go? The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter? This is how it works. It doesnt have to make sense. But it's the reality of the system we've chosen for ourselves. That's why the guy who just lies and shouts bullshit won. You don't need to explain it to them, in fact explaining it just makes them more confused. Just lie, its easier and you don't get punished for it. No see this is the part the Democrats don't understand. Republicans already have a lock on the party of liars. They're in bed with the Christian Right. They will NEVER lose that block of voters ever as long as they continue to promise to promote conservative judges. That's the only thing the Christian Right needs to keep voting for them forever. Democrats need to be the party that explains things, that makes them make sense. If they are just the guys shouting bullshit to counter the Republicans' bullshit then that causes voter turn out among moderates and more educated liberals to crater. Democrats need to win the game correctly. It's difficult but it's the only way they will ever win. Getting into mud throwing contests with the Republicans benefits them and ONLY them. On November 07 2024 01:27 NewSunshine wrote:On November 07 2024 01:17 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 01:14 EnDeR_ wrote:On November 07 2024 00:56 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 00:44 EnDeR_ wrote:
I wonder if Trump's base enthusiasm will be dented when the Trump tax cuts expire in the middle of his new term. I'm sure they will find a way to push that back But wouldn't that massively increase the deficit? Isn't that supposed to be bad for the economy? Republicans only care about the deficit when a Democrat is in the White House. See the deficit under Trump increasing every year. Democrats need to 1000% embrace the Republican tactic of using whatever you can find to bludgeon the other party over the head at all times, regardless of the hypocrisy or the facts. Don't give them room to breathe. The only reason R's get any airtime when they bang on about hypocrisy is because we let them. Jump down their throats and don't let them breathe in the rhetorical space. Democrats have policy that makes things better and they know it. But people don't give a shit about policy, they respond to charisma and "fight". Democrats have been so scared of looking like they might be fighting back that they left the floor open to Trump. They should be rallying and holding addresses to the nation on a weekly basis. Call Republicans out for the fucking spineless cowards they are and stand up on their own two feet as a party. But also, they should've been doing this since January 2021. If we forget about January 6th it's because the Democrats decided it wasn't that big of a deal. Fuck. I’m with Vindicare here. Trump’s own party can’t replicate his shtick, hence him trouncing primaries, the Dems have even less chance. As you all know I rarely use analogies, but I’m quite a reserved, deadpan, sarcastic kinda guy. One of my best friends is Mr Extrovert, could arrange a date in the 5 minutes he meets some girl at a bus stop etc etc. He may have had more luck with the ladies, and a totally different kind than kinda my type, but hey I have a niche and did alright. If I had started emulating him, it would have been a disaster as it’s not my manner, and the kinda girls I like also don’t really like the whole ‘alpha male’ shtick either. I think you can go on the attack, but in a different style. We need Bernie Sanders to run again. That’s my plan. Not Bernard Sandals specifically, I kid but that for me is the vague model. 1) He didn’t pull punches 2) He attacked the problems that many people suffer from, but crucially in a more systemic, non-personal fashion 3) He directly linked his critiques with easy to understand solutions 4) Not 100% effectively, but he largely sidestepped too much ‘culture war’ stuff 5) People liked him, or, at least considered him a decent or principled bloke You can still maintain a passion, some moral outrage that resonates while not diving headfirst into the same sty as a Donald Trump. Bernie Sanders could not even win the Democratic primary. If the Democratic party wants that type of candidate they're truly out of ideas. He could still win… I did throw the caveat in that I’m not talking Sanders specifically as a person, but his general approach to campaigning being something I’d emulate, versus emulating Trump or the approach of recent Democratic nominees My preference is also for his politics, but to clarify I’m also not advocating for that kind of platform to be fully adopted either. Would like it, dunno if it’s too much for the US to stomach. Trump himself overshadows this quite considerably, and for reasonable enough reasons. I think people forget that Sanders was the most successful, radical non-establishment candidate in the country for quite some time. Probably since Ross Perot maybe? You can’t learn anything from the guy with a platform I myself would have considered too left to be even competitive, and his grass roots enthusiasm and financial support? Trump is the most successful radical non establishment candidate in the country in recent times. I'm sure there's things to learn from Sanders campaigning. That does not make him, or someone like him, a good candidate for the presidential election. It's similar to Corbyn in the UK, popular with the grassroots but a poor candidate in the general elections.
To quote myself ‘Trump himself overshadows this quite considerably, and for reasonable enough reasons. Right before I said about Sanders being the most successful radical candidate since Perot
In my original post, and in this follow-up I literally said and clarified that I was not talking about Sanders as a candidate, nor necessarily a similar platform.
To which you’ve twice replied as if I had said that.
In an ideal world people would agree with me all the time, I can live with that not being the case but it’s actively frustrating if people are replying to things I didn’t say, and indeed stressed I was not saying
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On November 07 2024 02:52 oBlade wrote:
I cannot wait until 2036 when Drumpf endorses the Democratic candidate Chelsea Clinton after Ron Desantis steals the primary nomination from Eric Trump and then I get to hear how that proves Ron Desantis was the real Hitler all along because even Drumpf breaks from him.
i think clinton is probably off the mark here but replace her with whatever centrist old man you can find and i would not bet against this for 2028
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On November 07 2024 02:59 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2024 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:This should end Democrats insistence on trying to appeal to Republicans rather than motivating/engaging the 10's of millions of people that mostly agree with them (at least their ostensible views) but don't typically vote for a variety of reasons. For all their appeals to Republicans, supporting a immigration crackdown, backing genocide, and palling around with Cheney on stage, they made negative progress https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1854089215585239376 Oooooof I wonder what the numbers for self-described independents are? + Show Spoiler +On November 07 2024 02:44 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2024 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
This should end Democrats insistence on trying to appeal to Republicans rather than motivating/engaging the 10's of millions of people that mostly agree with them (at least their ostensible views) but don't typically vote for a variety of reasons.
For all their appeals to Republicans, supporting a immigration crackdown, backing genocide, and palling around with Cheney on stage, they made negative progress
I think this is a too-hard-learned lesson. While I don't think there was anything wrong with building a coalition that incidentally includes prominent Republicans as a show of how repugnant the other side is, going out of your way to court a base that has been highly radicalized and insulated from reality is a fools errand... Who’s doing this strategising? I don’t understand how you can have smart, savvy political strategists poring over all the numbers going, funded to the teeth and you do this again. Something some hobbyist discussors on a StarCraft forum largely (from memory) agreed was a fucking daft strategy? Certainly GH and I I remember, I’m pretty sure quite a few more The mind fucking boggles, it really does. It was pretty damn clear from almost the off that this was going to be an election about galvanising your bases and driving out turnout. Argh
WORSE! *sigh* SOOooo much worse... This is net 2020 vs 2024
Independents (or something else): +8 R
Conservatives: +9 R
Moderates: + 11 R
I can't emphasise enough how much the "we need to be more centrist" Democrats need to just be driven out of the party entirely if they can't shut the fuck up and fall in line behind the people that were shouted down by the people that backed Hillary and Biden to appeal to these mythical people that struggle choosing between Democrats and Trump.
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Nah, you just dont get it you dumb leftist, why cant you understand that they just didnt appeal to Republicans hard enough?
They definitely would have swung all those Republicans if they could've gotten George Bush on board!
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On November 07 2024 03:59 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2024 03:44 RvB wrote:On November 07 2024 02:43 Zambrah wrote:On November 07 2024 02:42 RvB wrote:On November 07 2024 02:02 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2024 01:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On November 07 2024 01:18 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 01:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On November 07 2024 01:13 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 01:03 Uldridge wrote:
What is the average knowledge gap between economic experts and your average working man?
I fear the gap is so large that whatever they may say just doesn't matter. Trump is "getting stuff done".
Forget macro economic cycles that take 20 years to play out or whatever the fuck, they want stuff done NOW. And he did that and Biden didn't. That's how you lose I guess. The knowledge gap seems to be entirety of the experts knowledge. As in the average working man has absolutely 0 clue how anything economic works. And yet it's those working men you need to convince to vote for your economic plan, or else win their vote some other way. How's the old saying go? The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter? This is how it works. It doesnt have to make sense. But it's the reality of the system we've chosen for ourselves. That's why the guy who just lies and shouts bullshit won. You don't need to explain it to them, in fact explaining it just makes them more confused. Just lie, its easier and you don't get punished for it. No see this is the part the Democrats don't understand. Republicans already have a lock on the party of liars. They're in bed with the Christian Right. They will NEVER lose that block of voters ever as long as they continue to promise to promote conservative judges. That's the only thing the Christian Right needs to keep voting for them forever. Democrats need to be the party that explains things, that makes them make sense. If they are just the guys shouting bullshit to counter the Republicans' bullshit then that causes voter turn out among moderates and more educated liberals to crater. Democrats need to win the game correctly. It's difficult but it's the only way they will ever win. Getting into mud throwing contests with the Republicans benefits them and ONLY them. On November 07 2024 01:27 NewSunshine wrote:On November 07 2024 01:17 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 01:14 EnDeR_ wrote:On November 07 2024 00:56 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 00:44 EnDeR_ wrote:
I wonder if Trump's base enthusiasm will be dented when the Trump tax cuts expire in the middle of his new term. I'm sure they will find a way to push that back But wouldn't that massively increase the deficit? Isn't that supposed to be bad for the economy? Republicans only care about the deficit when a Democrat is in the White House. See the deficit under Trump increasing every year. Democrats need to 1000% embrace the Republican tactic of using whatever you can find to bludgeon the other party over the head at all times, regardless of the hypocrisy or the facts. Don't give them room to breathe. The only reason R's get any airtime when they bang on about hypocrisy is because we let them. Jump down their throats and don't let them breathe in the rhetorical space. Democrats have policy that makes things better and they know it. But people don't give a shit about policy, they respond to charisma and "fight". Democrats have been so scared of looking like they might be fighting back that they left the floor open to Trump. They should be rallying and holding addresses to the nation on a weekly basis. Call Republicans out for the fucking spineless cowards they are and stand up on their own two feet as a party. But also, they should've been doing this since January 2021. If we forget about January 6th it's because the Democrats decided it wasn't that big of a deal. Fuck. I’m with Vindicare here. Trump’s own party can’t replicate his shtick, hence him trouncing primaries, the Dems have even less chance. As you all know I rarely use analogies, but I’m quite a reserved, deadpan, sarcastic kinda guy. One of my best friends is Mr Extrovert, could arrange a date in the 5 minutes he meets some girl at a bus stop etc etc. He may have had more luck with the ladies, and a totally different kind than kinda my type, but hey I have a niche and did alright. If I had started emulating him, it would have been a disaster as it’s not my manner, and the kinda girls I like also don’t really like the whole ‘alpha male’ shtick either. I think you can go on the attack, but in a different style. We need Bernie Sanders to run again. That’s my plan. Not Bernard Sandals specifically, I kid but that for me is the vague model. 1) He didn’t pull punches 2) He attacked the problems that many people suffer from, but crucially in a more systemic, non-personal fashion 3) He directly linked his critiques with easy to understand solutions 4) Not 100% effectively, but he largely sidestepped too much ‘culture war’ stuff 5) People liked him, or, at least considered him a decent or principled bloke You can still maintain a passion, some moral outrage that resonates while not diving headfirst into the same sty as a Donald Trump. Bernie Sanders could not even win the Democratic primary. If the Democratic party wants that type of candidate they're truly out of ideas. Ah yes, Kamala Harris noted Democratic primary winner lmao I doubt Harris was anyone's preferred candidate. There really was not much of a choice because Biden dropped out way too late. On November 07 2024 02:51 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2024 02:42 RvB wrote:On November 07 2024 02:02 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2024 01:23 Vindicare605 wrote:On November 07 2024 01:18 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 01:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On November 07 2024 01:13 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 01:03 Uldridge wrote:
What is the average knowledge gap between economic experts and your average working man?
I fear the gap is so large that whatever they may say just doesn't matter. Trump is "getting stuff done".
Forget macro economic cycles that take 20 years to play out or whatever the fuck, they want stuff done NOW. And he did that and Biden didn't. That's how you lose I guess. The knowledge gap seems to be entirety of the experts knowledge. As in the average working man has absolutely 0 clue how anything economic works. And yet it's those working men you need to convince to vote for your economic plan, or else win their vote some other way. How's the old saying go? The best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with the average voter? This is how it works. It doesnt have to make sense. But it's the reality of the system we've chosen for ourselves. That's why the guy who just lies and shouts bullshit won. You don't need to explain it to them, in fact explaining it just makes them more confused. Just lie, its easier and you don't get punished for it. No see this is the part the Democrats don't understand. Republicans already have a lock on the party of liars. They're in bed with the Christian Right. They will NEVER lose that block of voters ever as long as they continue to promise to promote conservative judges. That's the only thing the Christian Right needs to keep voting for them forever. Democrats need to be the party that explains things, that makes them make sense. If they are just the guys shouting bullshit to counter the Republicans' bullshit then that causes voter turn out among moderates and more educated liberals to crater. Democrats need to win the game correctly. It's difficult but it's the only way they will ever win. Getting into mud throwing contests with the Republicans benefits them and ONLY them. On November 07 2024 01:27 NewSunshine wrote:On November 07 2024 01:17 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 01:14 EnDeR_ wrote:On November 07 2024 00:56 Gorsameth wrote:On November 07 2024 00:44 EnDeR_ wrote:
I wonder if Trump's base enthusiasm will be dented when the Trump tax cuts expire in the middle of his new term. I'm sure they will find a way to push that back But wouldn't that massively increase the deficit? Isn't that supposed to be bad for the economy? Republicans only care about the deficit when a Democrat is in the White House. See the deficit under Trump increasing every year. Democrats need to 1000% embrace the Republican tactic of using whatever you can find to bludgeon the other party over the head at all times, regardless of the hypocrisy or the facts. Don't give them room to breathe. The only reason R's get any airtime when they bang on about hypocrisy is because we let them. Jump down their throats and don't let them breathe in the rhetorical space. Democrats have policy that makes things better and they know it. But people don't give a shit about policy, they respond to charisma and "fight". Democrats have been so scared of looking like they might be fighting back that they left the floor open to Trump. They should be rallying and holding addresses to the nation on a weekly basis. Call Republicans out for the fucking spineless cowards they are and stand up on their own two feet as a party. But also, they should've been doing this since January 2021. If we forget about January 6th it's because the Democrats decided it wasn't that big of a deal. Fuck. I’m with Vindicare here. Trump’s own party can’t replicate his shtick, hence him trouncing primaries, the Dems have even less chance. As you all know I rarely use analogies, but I’m quite a reserved, deadpan, sarcastic kinda guy. One of my best friends is Mr Extrovert, could arrange a date in the 5 minutes he meets some girl at a bus stop etc etc. He may have had more luck with the ladies, and a totally different kind than kinda my type, but hey I have a niche and did alright. If I had started emulating him, it would have been a disaster as it’s not my manner, and the kinda girls I like also don’t really like the whole ‘alpha male’ shtick either. I think you can go on the attack, but in a different style. We need Bernie Sanders to run again. That’s my plan. Not Bernard Sandals specifically, I kid but that for me is the vague model. 1) He didn’t pull punches 2) He attacked the problems that many people suffer from, but crucially in a more systemic, non-personal fashion 3) He directly linked his critiques with easy to understand solutions 4) Not 100% effectively, but he largely sidestepped too much ‘culture war’ stuff 5) People liked him, or, at least considered him a decent or principled bloke You can still maintain a passion, some moral outrage that resonates while not diving headfirst into the same sty as a Donald Trump. Bernie Sanders could not even win the Democratic primary. If the Democratic party wants that type of candidate they're truly out of ideas. He could still win… I did throw the caveat in that I’m not talking Sanders specifically as a person, but his general approach to campaigning being something I’d emulate, versus emulating Trump or the approach of recent Democratic nominees My preference is also for his politics, but to clarify I’m also not advocating for that kind of platform to be fully adopted either. Would like it, dunno if it’s too much for the US to stomach. Trump himself overshadows this quite considerably, and for reasonable enough reasons. I think people forget that Sanders was the most successful, radical non-establishment candidate in the country for quite some time. Probably since Ross Perot maybe? You can’t learn anything from the guy with a platform I myself would have considered too left to be even competitive, and his grass roots enthusiasm and financial support? Trump is the most successful radical non establishment candidate in the country in recent times. I'm sure there's things to learn from Sanders campaigning. That does not make him, or someone like him, a good candidate for the presidential election. It's similar to Corbyn in the UK, popular with the grassroots but a poor candidate in the general elections. To quote myself ‘ Trump himself overshadows this quite considerably, and for reasonable enough reasons. Right before I said about Sanders being the most successful radical candidate since Perot In my original post, and in this follow-up I literally said and clarified that I was not talking about Sanders as a candidate, nor necessarily a similar platform. To which you’ve twice replied as if I had said that. In an ideal world people would agree with me all the time, I can live with that not being the case but it’s actively frustrating if people are replying to things I didn’t say, and indeed stressed I was not saying
Okay, I misunderstood then my bad.
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On November 07 2024 04:08 Zambrah wrote:
Nah, you just dont get it you dumb leftist, why cant you understand that they just didnt appeal to Republicans hard enough?
They definitely would have swung all those Republicans if they could've gotten George Bush on board!
You can swing Republicans.
However, you can't do it with George Bush.
Because Republicans don't want George Bush on board to begin with.
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Wow so Trump won? Oh well, better luck next time (lol)
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On November 07 2024 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:This should end Democrats insistence on trying to appeal to Republicans rather than motivating/engaging the 10's of millions of people that mostly agree with them (at least their ostensible views) but don't typically vote for a variety of reasons. For all their appeals to Republicans, supporting a immigration crackdown, backing genocide, and palling around with Cheney on stage, they made negative progress https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1854089215585239376
Their strategy for getting Republicans to break ranks was so retarded too.
Break ranks because it's the right thing to do?! SERIOUSLY?! You seriously think that's going to fucking work?
You need to offer them a better alternative. You need to sell them a message that Trump can't.
You spend all that time just throwing names at Trump and you give them no reason to budge from their sunk cost fallacy. The Democrats didn't offer a message for people to vote for. All they promised was that they weren't Donald Trump.
It didn't work in 2016, and it didn't work in 2024.
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On November 07 2024 04:08 Zambrah wrote:
Nah, you just dont get it you dumb leftist, why cant you understand that they just didnt appeal to Republicans hard enough?
They definitely would have swung all those Republicans if they could've gotten George Bush on board!
I love that they were pushing to get his endorsement only for him to be one of the first people to glazingly congratulate Trump for winning and adding:
“The strong turnout in this election is a sign of the health of our republic and the strength of our democratic institutions,”
Just some straight up gaslighting lol
Heads need to roll in the Democrat party for this and it's either going to be Democrats or Trump doing the chopping. Democrats don't want to wait for Trump to do the chopping
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Harris has phoned Drumpf according to sources, which is a normal and fine timeframe, not in the realm of election denying as some naysayers have heckled. She is supposed to speak sometime today which is more important especially for her supporters and for national unity.
One of the topics was a peaceful transfer of power, which doesn't make any sense because Harris is the one that needs to peacefully transfer power away from herself, unless she is worried about Summer of Love 2020 style violence again.
Kamala Harris called President-elect Donald Trump on Wednesday to concede the election and congratulate him on his victory, according to a senior adviser to the vice president.
The aide, who declined to be identified discussing a private conversation, said Harris talked about the need for a peaceful transfer of power.
https://fortune.com/2024/11/06/kamala-harris-concedes-2024-election-donald-trump/
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
People talking about Dems trying to appeal to republicans must be living in a very different echo chamber from my own.
I have spent entire day's off-time reading HN/Reddit and the like busy calling 50% of USA fascists, nazis and mentally impaired. If that's how you guys appeal to Republicans, no wonder Dems thought campaigning with Liz Cheney was a good idea (though i find it funny that in return Tulsi Gabbard went to Reps, talk about actual crossover appeal): they also thought 50% of USA are mentally impaired.
On another hand, in hindsight people already nailed down why this election went down as it did and frankly, it's a little boring, but hey, Dems should have a really good 2026 at this rate. Because economy won't get better for average Joe, tariffs or not, and hence midterms will switch parties as usual.
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On November 07 2024 04:05 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2024 02:59 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2024 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:This should end Democrats insistence on trying to appeal to Republicans rather than motivating/engaging the 10's of millions of people that mostly agree with them (at least their ostensible views) but don't typically vote for a variety of reasons. For all their appeals to Republicans, supporting a immigration crackdown, backing genocide, and palling around with Cheney on stage, they made negative progress https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1854089215585239376 Oooooof I wonder what the numbers for self-described independents are? + Show Spoiler +On November 07 2024 02:44 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2024 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:This should end Democrats insistence on trying to appeal to Republicans rather than motivating/engaging the 10's of millions of people that mostly agree with them (at least their ostensible views) but don't typically vote for a variety of reasons. For all their appeals to Republicans, supporting a immigration crackdown, backing genocide, and palling around with Cheney on stage, they made negative progress https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1854089215585239376 I think this is a too-hard-learned lesson. While I don't think there was anything wrong with building a coalition that incidentally includes prominent Republicans as a show of how repugnant the other side is, going out of your way to court a base that has been highly radicalized and insulated from reality is a fools errand... Who’s doing this strategising? I don’t understand how you can have smart, savvy political strategists poring over all the numbers going, funded to the teeth and you do this again. Something some hobbyist discussors on a StarCraft forum largely (from memory) agreed was a fucking daft strategy? Certainly GH and I I remember, I’m pretty sure quite a few more The mind fucking boggles, it really does. It was pretty damn clear from almost the off that this was going to be an election about galvanising your bases and driving out turnout. Argh WORSE! *sigh* SOOooo much worse... This is net 2020 vs 2024Independents (or something else): +8 R Conservatives: +9 R Moderates: + 11 R I can't emphasise enough how much the "we need to be more centrist" Democrats need to just be driven out of the party entirely if they can't shut the fuck up and fall in line behind the people that were shouted down by the people that backed Hillary and Biden to appeal to these mythical people that struggle choosing between Democrats and Trump. This implies there are people to the left to pick up who are willing to vote.
Which might be right, but boy do they do a good job of hiding because I don't think we ever see them.
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Peace out USPol. US appears to be irredeemable. Hopefully EU weens itself off your tit and you can go and be a regional power bullying Mexico, and leaving the rest of the world the fuck alone. I know, the chance of that is less than zero, but at the very least I hope this means everyone stops actually listening to you.
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On November 07 2024 04:05 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2024 02:59 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2024 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:This should end Democrats insistence on trying to appeal to Republicans rather than motivating/engaging the 10's of millions of people that mostly agree with them (at least their ostensible views) but don't typically vote for a variety of reasons. For all their appeals to Republicans, supporting a immigration crackdown, backing genocide, and palling around with Cheney on stage, they made negative progress https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1854089215585239376 Oooooof I wonder what the numbers for self-described independents are? + Show Spoiler +On November 07 2024 02:44 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2024 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:This should end Democrats insistence on trying to appeal to Republicans rather than motivating/engaging the 10's of millions of people that mostly agree with them (at least their ostensible views) but don't typically vote for a variety of reasons. For all their appeals to Republicans, supporting a immigration crackdown, backing genocide, and palling around with Cheney on stage, they made negative progress https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1854089215585239376 I think this is a too-hard-learned lesson. While I don't think there was anything wrong with building a coalition that incidentally includes prominent Republicans as a show of how repugnant the other side is, going out of your way to court a base that has been highly radicalized and insulated from reality is a fools errand... Who’s doing this strategising? I don’t understand how you can have smart, savvy political strategists poring over all the numbers going, funded to the teeth and you do this again. Something some hobbyist discussors on a StarCraft forum largely (from memory) agreed was a fucking daft strategy? Certainly GH and I I remember, I’m pretty sure quite a few more The mind fucking boggles, it really does. It was pretty damn clear from almost the off that this was going to be an election about galvanising your bases and driving out turnout. Argh WORSE! *sigh* SOOooo much worse... This is net 2020 vs 2024Independents (or something else): +8 R Conservatives: +9 R Moderates: + 11 R I can't emphasise enough how much the "we need to be more centrist" Democrats need to just be driven out of the party entirely if they can't shut the fuck up and fall in line behind the people that were shouted down by the people that backed Hillary and Biden to appeal to these mythical people that struggle choosing between Democrats and Trump.
You're a socialist stuck in a fascist country. Might I suggest emigration. Hopefully the nukes stay in their silos and the worst we have to deal with is 3 degrees of global warming.
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On November 07 2024 04:24 lolfail9001 wrote:People talking about Dems trying to appeal to republicans must be living in a very different echo chamber from my own. + Show Spoiler +I have spent entire day's off-time reading HN/Reddit and the like busy calling 50% of USA fascists, nazis and mentally impaired. If that's how you guys appeal to Republicans, no wonder Dems thought campaigning with Liz Cheney was a good idea (though i find it funny that in return Tulsi Gabbard went to Reps, talk about actual crossover appeal): they also thought 50% of USA are mentally impaired.
On another hand, in hindsight people already nailed down why this election went down as it did and frankly, it's a little boring, but hey, Dems should have a really good 2026 at this rate. Because economy won't get better for average Joe, tariffs or not, and hence midterms will switch parties as usual .
Part of the problem is that "trying to appeal to/compromise with Republicans" has always just been rhetorical cover for "doing what our owners donors tell us to".
For a long time they were able to obscure that fact, but it's pretty nakedly apparent Democrats shitty right-wing policy isn't actually aimed at winning over moderate/right-wing voters and even if it was, it doesn't work.
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I'm reading the exit polls right now. It's hard to overstate just how badly the Democrats lost this. This is a complete and total defeat.
Like there's not even a single shred of doubt here for anyone to cry foul on. It's a complete landslide.
I would expect every single ranking member of the DNC to tender their resignations from professional politics, but knowing the Democratic party that will never happen. They'll just try and run it back in another 4 years doing the same shit. They never learn.
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On November 07 2024 04:29 pmh wrote:
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I'm glad i read it before you deleted it, T'was a good point, take care.
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On November 07 2024 04:28 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2024 04:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 07 2024 02:59 WombaT wrote:On November 07 2024 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:This should end Democrats insistence on trying to appeal to Republicans rather than motivating/engaging the 10's of millions of people that mostly agree with them (at least their ostensible views) but don't typically vote for a variety of reasons. For all their appeals to Republicans, supporting a immigration crackdown, backing genocide, and palling around with Cheney on stage, they made negative progress https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1854089215585239376 Oooooof I wonder what the numbers for self-described independents are? + Show Spoiler +On November 07 2024 02:44 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2024 02:38 GreenHorizons wrote:This should end Democrats insistence on trying to appeal to Republicans rather than motivating/engaging the 10's of millions of people that mostly agree with them (at least their ostensible views) but don't typically vote for a variety of reasons. For all their appeals to Republicans, supporting a immigration crackdown, backing genocide, and palling around with Cheney on stage, they made negative progress https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1854089215585239376 I think this is a too-hard-learned lesson. While I don't think there was anything wrong with building a coalition that incidentally includes prominent Republicans as a show of how repugnant the other side is, going out of your way to court a base that has been highly radicalized and insulated from reality is a fools errand... Who’s doing this strategising? I don’t understand how you can have smart, savvy political strategists poring over all the numbers going, funded to the teeth and you do this again. Something some hobbyist discussors on a StarCraft forum largely (from memory) agreed was a fucking daft strategy? Certainly GH and I I remember, I’m pretty sure quite a few more The mind fucking boggles, it really does. It was pretty damn clear from almost the off that this was going to be an election about galvanising your bases and driving out turnout. Argh WORSE! *sigh* SOOooo much worse... This is net 2020 vs 2024Independents (or something else): +8 R Conservatives: +9 R Moderates: + 11 R I can't emphasise enough how much the "we need to be more centrist" Democrats need to just be driven out of the party entirely if they can't shut the fuck up and fall in line behind the people that were shouted down by the people that backed Hillary and Biden to appeal to these mythical people that struggle choosing between Democrats and Trump. This implies there are people to the left to pick up who are willing to vote. Which might be right, but boy do they do a good job of hiding because I don't think we ever see them.
How can you expect to see them when Democrats exclusively try to pull Republicans, the people who are diametrically opposed to leftists in basically all ways?
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EPT
