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On August 07 2024 00:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: There seems to be less controversy and less in-fighting about Walz, compared to Shapiro. A ton of unifying statements, from both moderate and progressive Democrats. I like this quote, in particular:
"Tim Walz has the courage of a veteran, the compassion of a school teacher, the grit of a football coach, and the experience of both a congressman and governor. He is a fantastic choice for Vice President." ~Keith Ellison
On August 07 2024 00:17 GreenHorizons wrote:
On August 06 2024 23:56 NewSunshine wrote:
On August 06 2024 23:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: One nice perk about Harris picking Walz over Shapiro: Shapiro was more moderate/conservative of a Democrat, including being pro- school vouchers, but not only is Walz more progressive and anti- school vouchers, he was also a teacher himself! Pennsylvania is no longer guaranteed though, so it's a higher-risk, higher-reward move by Harris.
Yeah. I want to see this pay off. In my heart of hearts, I would prefer someone more progressive like him over Shapiro anyway. It's just that old question of how much do you sacrifice for the electability bugbear. Perhaps the criticisms of Shapiro came through, and this was another Biden-stepping-down moment. They seem to be making all the best moves they can.
Think it was the Ellen Greenberg story that did him in. Going to be bad enough for Democrats in PA having it in the background, would be immeasurably worse to have it front and center with Shapiro as VP.
Hey GH, what are your thoughts on Walz being chosen as Harris's runningmate? Reasonable choice or serious misstep?
Certainly haven't heard as many bad things about Walz compared to Shapiro. For Democrats, I'd say he's about the best they could have hoped for. But to characterize him as left is so unreal
Not looking forward to how Democrats are going to respond to the George Floyd uprisings being back in the news in this context.
I appreciate your unique perspective on Walz, given that you're obviously far more on the left than he or other options are.
What's going on with George Floyd uprisings?
The "to characterize him as left is so unreal..." is a quote from Nancy Pelosi shutting down the idea that Walz is a progressive just fyi.
As for the George Floyd uprisings, they are going to be rehashed (Walz was Gov.) and Democrats are leaning hard into a "cop vs criminals" framing for this election. So we can expect doubling down on cop cities, and rhetoric in favor of more authoritarian crackdowns on protesters. Basically sets Democrats up to do more of the laying the foundations for fascism thing I've mentioned before.
I said before if this was a choice between a rock and Trump, I’d still vote for the rock, because Trump can’t even clear that bare minimum bar for me. Why can’t Republicans run somebody like John McCain, or even Mitt fucking Romney? Why is the current orange alternative much, much worse than electing a fucking rock? Are maga that offended that their chosen god and savior could be worse than an inanimate object? Seems to be more of a problem with their own candidate or themselves, rather than zombie Biden, no?
Besides, I rather take part in and witness the historical milestone of a rock getting elected into office, while at the same time also witnessing the equally significant historical milestone of a billionaire going to prison for once and getting his just deserts, because I’m petty. Well, can’t be more petty than the maga crowd, right? lol
But holy fuck, I severely underestimated Kamala. I thought she was going for the easy and obvious choice of Josh Shapiro to lock in purple Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes. Until this guy's skeletons started coming out of the closet (like ruling a case where the victim with multiple stab wounds was a suicide, Republicans can just use that and say he covered up a murder). If Republicans know about his skeletons, then pretty sure Kamala and her advisors do too, and good on them for staying a step ahead on that front. Plus, having two DAs on the same ticket doesn't strike a good balance.
I didn't really know who Tim Walz was before yesterday. Then when I read about him, I thought, "Wait, this is the same guy who passed free school lunches in Minnesota? Sign me up!" If free school lunches were a thing back in my day, I wouldn't have starved myself to save my lunch money to buy video games (but then again, that also means I wouldn't have gotten lunch money in the first place, so...). The more I read about this dude, the more he sounds like Bernie. So wait, isn't he just a plumper Bernie Sanders? Wow, now Kamala's campaign has even more momentum and excitement (if it hasn't already)!
My predictions in this thread have been ass so far. First, I thought DPB was going to win his bet with his friend, then failed to see Biden drop out. Then I was cocksure about Josh Shapiro being the VP pick because PA, then Kamala one-ups me and picks Bernie Sanders, err, Tim Walz. You know what, third time's the charm, right? I'll do you guys and America a favor and predict Trump to win this November, because why not. If I have to become an Inverse Cramer meme for the greater good, then so be it, you guys can thank me in November.
One thing I can say for sure is that GH still won't vote for Kamala because he's GH, and nothing will ever be good enough for him to vote for someone due to ever-shifting goalposts, that are by this point too far up in the sky (or up his ***) for any realistic candidate to reach. + Show Spoiler +
That's not to say idealists like him are useless, they have their place and purpose in reminding what humanity can do better and strive for. But it gets tiring putting up with their smugness just from opting out of the trolley problems forced upon the rest of us, while doing nothing themselves (or making things worse). Those trolleys are going to keep coming whether you like them or not. The moral horse is all they have, and when the solutions they offer is either have nothing to do with the switch, or sometimes even pulling the switch on the trolley making it goes faster to the rest of the victims farther down the rails, I don't think it helps. They could do a better job of inspiring people to be better, but wind up doing the opposite instead with non-solutions like these and grandstanding about it. America isn’t so lost and irredeemable to warrant speeding up the trolley as a solution, have you seen the other fascist and shithole countries? This place is heaven comparatively, and people understandably want to keep things that way.
All Kamala has to do is not have any major fuckups in the next three months. Can she do it? I wouldn’t hold my breath. Putin and the Russian propaganda machine will be working overtime to secure a Trump presidency. Bibi, Hamas, and all the other Mid East shit-stirrers beginning with the letter H will definitely muck everything up, if they haven’t already for Biden. Who knows what winnie the xi and ccp got planned. At this point, Kamala and her advisors better be up to par with the Ubuyashiki clan and their predictive ability to read the future in order to avoid calamity and disaster, if Trump isn’t hanging himself with his own rope already.
On August 07 2024 02:38 riotjune wrote: I said before if this was a choice between a rock and Trump, I’d still vote for the rock, because Trump can’t even clear that bare minimum bar for me. Why can’t Republicans run somebody like John McCain, or even Mitt fucking Romney? Why is the current orange alternative much, much worse than electing a fucking rock? Are maga that offended that their chosen god and savior could be worse than an inanimate object? Seems to be more of a problem with their own candidate or themselves, rather than zombie Biden, no?
Besides, I rather take part in and witness the historical milestone of a rock getting elected into office, while at the same time also witnessing the equally significant historical milestone of a billionaire going to prison for once and getting his just deserts, because I’m petty. Well, can’t be more petty than the maga crowd, right? lol
But holy fuck, I severely underestimated Kamala. I thought she was going for the easy and obvious choice of Josh Shapiro to lock in purple Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes. Until this guy's skeletons started coming out of the closet (like ruling a case where the victim with multiple stab wounds was a suicide, Republicans can just use that and say he covered up a murder). If Republicans know about his skeletons, then pretty sure Kamala and her advisors do too, and good on them for staying a step ahead on that front. Plus, having two DAs on the same ticket doesn't strike a good balance.
I didn't really know who Tim Walz was before yesterday. Then when I read about him, I thought, "Wait, this is the same guy who passed free school lunches in Minnesota? Sign me up!" If free school lunches were a thing back in my day, I wouldn't have starved myself to save my lunch money to buy video games (but then again, that also means I wouldn't have gotten lunch money in the first place, so...). The more I read about this dude, the more he sounds like Bernie. So wait, isn't he just a plumper Bernie Sanders? Wow, now Kamala's campaign has even more momentum and excitement (if it hasn't already)!
My predictions in this thread have been ass so far. First, I thought DPB was going to win his bet with his friend, then failed to see Biden drop out. Then I was cocksure about Josh Shapiro being the VP pick because PA, then Kamala one-ups me and picks Bernie Sanders, err, Tim Walz. You know what, third time's the charm, right? I'll do you guys and America a favor and predict Trump to win this November, because why not. If I have to become an Inverse Cramer meme for the greater good, then so be it, you guys can thank me in November.
One thing I can say for sure is that GH still won't vote for Kamala because he's GH, and nothing will ever be good enough for him to vote for someone due to ever-shifting goalposts, that are by this point too far up in the sky (or up his ***) for any realistic candidate to reach. + Show Spoiler +
That's not to say idealists like him are useless, they have their place and purpose in reminding what humanity can do better and strive for. But it gets tiring putting up with their smugness just from opting out of the trolley problems forced upon the rest of us, while doing nothing themselves (or making things worse). Those trolleys are going to keep coming whether you like them or not. The moral horse is all they have, and when the solutions they offer is either have nothing to do with the switch, or sometimes even pulling the switch on the trolley making it goes faster to the rest of the victims farther down the rails, I don't think it helps. They could do a better job of inspiring people to be better, but wind up doing the opposite instead with non-solutions like these and grandstanding about it. America isn’t so lost and irredeemable to warrant speeding up the trolley as a solution, have you seen the other fascist and shithole countries? This place is heaven comparatively, and people understandably want to keep things that way.
All Kamala has to do is not have any major fuckups in the next three months. Can she do it? I wouldn’t hold my breath. Putin and the Russian propaganda machine will be working overtime to secure a Trump presidency. Bibi, Hamas, and all the other Mid East shit-stirrers beginning with the letter H will definitely muck everything up, if they haven’t already for Biden. Who knows what winnie the xi and ccp got planned. At this point, Kamala and her advisors better be up to par with the Ubuyashiki clan and their predictive ability to read the future in order to avoid calamity and disaster, if Trump isn’t hanging himself with his own rope already.
I'm still going to We readjusted the bet for Trump vs. Harris.
Holy Shit the dems did the smart thing and picked the best choice available. I was rock bottem jaded over my personal health tanking and disillusion with politics but I'm ballz to the walz.
This guy is the real deal. He won 5 congressional elections in a red district, in 2016 it went 16 points to trump and he won anyway. Hes got the best social media game in the business, you'll see a ton of gold mineing into his history. One day his dog locked himself in the bathroom and he live tweeted because people saw police and a cherry picker at the governors mansion, they didn't want to break down the historic door. Hes got a real sweet relationship to his daughter hope, who was born through IVF, from his time doing stuff in public with her. I saw them in the cheap seats at an MLS game, they had to leave because it fills up every game but they got to at least see the view. He is the highest ranked enlisted solider in congressional history, he won Mankado wests first state title (after going down by 20 some points in the final), he didn't just support gay people when it became popular he was there to support the creation of the gay-straight alliance chapter of mankado west. He goes hunting every year, he goes fishing every year, he goes to the state fair every year.
This dude is the fighter thats pursuing progressive policies like GH says he wants in America but I'm not surprised that hes not going to support him. Coastal progressives have always shit on the Midwest socialists that actually got things done, that actually help people in the real world. You're really going to see the difference between performative progressives and legitimate socialists in the coming months and hopefully years.
The thing you need to understand about walz is that its not just him that explains what happened in Minnesota but is running mate Peggy Flanigan. Shes quietly talked about as the power behind the throne. They ran as a unit to become governor and work excellently togeather. Shes had the backing of the Tribes in Minnesota and they've done a lot of work to support and build a better relationship with the tribes. A native restaurant in Minnesota won the james beard award for best restaurant in America and they've done work to really improve native food access in the state. Shes not just going to become the first non white dude to be governor, shes going to become the first female native governor in america if kamala/walz wins.
As for the floyd protests it could have been handled a lot worse, the National Guard wasn't called out until day 3 and didn't show up until day 4. Little Mekong (for the Hmong population in Minnesota) was hit hard by it but has rebuilt and thrived in the years since. Minnesota has taken in more refugees than any other state per capita and has been working through the issues that has caused but hasn't had the right wing tilt that other cases has seen with the embrace of migrants. This year there was a very real fight on behalf of ride share drivers that got messy but in the end won huge concessions for the vulnerable. Undocumented immigrants now get Drivers licences in a huge positive shift for everyone.
On August 07 2024 02:38 riotjune wrote: All Kamala has to do is not have any major fuckups in the next three months.
What if the American public learn something disqualifying about her like the colour of her skin or her inverted penis? She’s already made critical mistakes.
On August 07 2024 02:38 riotjune wrote: I said before if this was a choice between a rock and Trump, I’d still vote for the rock, because Trump can’t even clear that bare minimum bar for me. Why can’t Republicans run somebody like John McCain, or even Mitt fucking Romney? Why is the current orange alternative much, much worse than electing a fucking rock? Are maga that offended that their chosen god and savior could be worse than an inanimate object? Seems to be more of a problem with their own candidate or themselves, rather than zombie Biden, no?
"MAGA" are not trying to win your vote any more than the Democrats are, because neither side needs to bother.
The Republicans ran those candidates before, they were called racist and sexist warmongers and portrayed as a decrepit old retard until they lost.
On August 07 2024 02:38 riotjune wrote:Until this guy's skeletons started coming out of the closet (like ruling a case where the victim with multiple stab wounds was a suicide, Republicans can just use that and say he covered up a murder). If Republicans know about his skeletons, then pretty sure Kamala and her advisors do too, and good on them for staying a step ahead on that front. Plus, having two DAs on the same ticket doesn't strike a good balance.
Yeah my biggest fear is the Democrats nominating some kind of power hungry psycho who has some kind of history of corruption, pay to play, crime, cronyism, or worse - because if the Republicans figured it out, they might exploit said information to sway voters away from the obviously superior Democrat.
On August 07 2024 02:38 riotjune wrote: All Kamala has to do is not have any major fuckups in the next three months.
What if the American public learn something disqualifying about her like the colour of her skin or her inverted penis? She’s already made critical mistakes.
Apparently she made the choice to fuck up the color of her skin somewhat recently, too, so that's a real skeleton in her closet.
I said before if this was a choice between a rock and Trump, I’d still vote for the rock, because Trump can’t even clear that bare minimum bar for me. Why can’t Republicans run somebody like John McCain, or even Mitt fucking Romney? Why is the current orange alternative much, much worse than electing a fucking rock? Are maga that offended that their chosen god and savior could be worse than an inanimate object? Seems to be more of a problem with their own candidate or themselves, rather than zombie Biden, no?
Besides, I rather take part in and witness the historical milestone of a rock getting elected into office, while at the same time also witnessing the equally significant historical milestone of a billionaire going to prison for once and getting his just deserts, because I’m petty. Well, can’t be more petty than the maga crowd, right? lol
But holy fuck, I severely underestimated Kamala. I thought she was going for the easy and obvious choice of Josh Shapiro to lock in purple Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes. Until this guy's skeletons started coming out of the closet (like ruling a case where the victim with multiple stab wounds was a suicide, Republicans can just use that and say he covered up a murder). If Republicans know about his skeletons, then pretty sure Kamala and her advisors do too, and good on them for staying a step ahead on that front. Plus, having two DAs on the same ticket doesn't strike a good balance.
I didn't really know who Tim Walz was before yesterday. Then when I read about him, I thought, "Wait, this is the same guy who passed free school lunches in Minnesota? Sign me up!" If free school lunches were a thing back in my day, I wouldn't have starved myself to save my lunch money to buy video games (but then again, that also means I wouldn't have gotten lunch money in the first place, so...). The more I read about this dude, the more he sounds like Bernie. So wait, isn't he just a plumper Bernie Sanders? Wow, now Kamala's campaign has even more momentum and excitement (if it hasn't already)!
My predictions in this thread have been ass so far. First, I thought DPB was going to win his bet with his friend, then failed to see Biden drop out. Then I was cocksure about Josh Shapiro being the VP pick because PA, then Kamala one-ups me and picks Bernie Sanders, err, Tim Walz. You know what, third time's the charm, right? I'll do you guys and America a favor and predict Trump to win this November, because why not. If I have to become an Inverse Cramer meme for the greater good, then so be it, you guys can thank me in November.
One thing I can say for sure is that GH still won't vote for Kamala because he's GH, and nothing will ever be good enough for him to vote for someone due to ever-shifting goalposts, that are by this point too far up in the sky (or up his ***) for any realistic candidate to reach.
That's not to say idealists like him are useless, they have their place and purpose in reminding what humanity can do better and strive for. But it gets tiring putting up with their smugness just from opting out of the trolley problems forced upon the rest of us, while doing nothing themselves (or making things worse). Those trolleys are going to keep coming whether you like them or not. The moral horse is all they have, and when the solutions they offer is either have nothing to do with the switch, or sometimes even pulling the switch on the trolley making it goes faster to the rest of the victims farther down the rails, I don't think it helps. They could do a better job of inspiring people to be better, but wind up doing the opposite instead with non-solutions like these and grandstanding about it. America isn’t so lost and irredeemable to warrant speeding up the trolley as a solution, have you seen the other fascist and shithole countries? This place is heaven comparatively, and people understandably want to keep things that way.
All Kamala has to do is not have any major fuckups in the next three months. Can she do it? I wouldn’t hold my breath. Putin and the Russian propaganda machine will be working overtime to secure a Trump presidency. Bibi, Hamas, and all the other Mid East shit-stirrers beginning with the letter H will definitely muck everything up, if they haven’t already for Biden. Who knows what winnie the xi and ccp got planned. At this point, Kamala and her advisors better be up to par with the Ubuyashiki clan and their predictive ability to read the future in order to avoid calamity and disaster, if Trump isn’t hanging himself with his own rope already.
I'm not going to vote for Kamala because my vote is obviated by the US's decrepit "democracy". Doing so despite that, would be unhinged, and make me complicit in genocide (among plenty of other problematic stuff) for no material benefit to anyone.
Ethics aside, there's still no functional reason for me to vote for Harris.
EDIT: I'd just add that if Walz was actually a progressive champion or like Bernie Sanders he wouldn't be getting called a centrist by Nancy Pelosi.
I said before if this was a choice between a rock and Trump, I’d still vote for the rock, because Trump can’t even clear that bare minimum bar for me. Why can’t Republicans run somebody like John McCain, or even Mitt fucking Romney? Why is the current orange alternative much, much worse than electing a fucking rock? Are maga that offended that their chosen god and savior could be worse than an inanimate object? Seems to be more of a problem with their own candidate or themselves, rather than zombie Biden, no?
Besides, I rather take part in and witness the historical milestone of a rock getting elected into office, while at the same time also witnessing the equally significant historical milestone of a billionaire going to prison for once and getting his just deserts, because I’m petty. Well, can’t be more petty than the maga crowd, right? lol
But holy fuck, I severely underestimated Kamala. I thought she was going for the easy and obvious choice of Josh Shapiro to lock in purple Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes. Until this guy's skeletons started coming out of the closet (like ruling a case where the victim with multiple stab wounds was a suicide, Republicans can just use that and say he covered up a murder). If Republicans know about his skeletons, then pretty sure Kamala and her advisors do too, and good on them for staying a step ahead on that front. Plus, having two DAs on the same ticket doesn't strike a good balance.
I didn't really know who Tim Walz was before yesterday. Then when I read about him, I thought, "Wait, this is the same guy who passed free school lunches in Minnesota? Sign me up!" If free school lunches were a thing back in my day, I wouldn't have starved myself to save my lunch money to buy video games (but then again, that also means I wouldn't have gotten lunch money in the first place, so...). The more I read about this dude, the more he sounds like Bernie. So wait, isn't he just a plumper Bernie Sanders? Wow, now Kamala's campaign has even more momentum and excitement (if it hasn't already)!
My predictions in this thread have been ass so far. First, I thought DPB was going to win his bet with his friend, then failed to see Biden drop out. Then I was cocksure about Josh Shapiro being the VP pick because PA, then Kamala one-ups me and picks Bernie Sanders, err, Tim Walz. You know what, third time's the charm, right? I'll do you guys and America a favor and predict Trump to win this November, because why not. If I have to become an Inverse Cramer meme for the greater good, then so be it, you guys can thank me in November.
One thing I can say for sure is that GH still won't vote for Kamala because he's GH, and nothing will ever be good enough for him to vote for someone due to ever-shifting goalposts, that are by this point too far up in the sky (or up his ***) for any realistic candidate to reach.
That's not to say idealists like him are useless, they have their place and purpose in reminding what humanity can do better and strive for. But it gets tiring putting up with their smugness just from opting out of the trolley problems forced upon the rest of us, while doing nothing themselves (or making things worse). Those trolleys are going to keep coming whether you like them or not. The moral horse is all they have, and when the solutions they offer is either have nothing to do with the switch, or sometimes even pulling the switch on the trolley making it goes faster to the rest of the victims farther down the rails, I don't think it helps. They could do a better job of inspiring people to be better, but wind up doing the opposite instead with non-solutions like these and grandstanding about it. America isn’t so lost and irredeemable to warrant speeding up the trolley as a solution, have you seen the other fascist and shithole countries? This place is heaven comparatively, and people understandably want to keep things that way.
All Kamala has to do is not have any major fuckups in the next three months. Can she do it? I wouldn’t hold my breath. Putin and the Russian propaganda machine will be working overtime to secure a Trump presidency. Bibi, Hamas, and all the other Mid East shit-stirrers beginning with the letter H will definitely muck everything up, if they haven’t already for Biden. Who knows what winnie the xi and ccp got planned. At this point, Kamala and her advisors better be up to par with the Ubuyashiki clan and their predictive ability to read the future in order to avoid calamity and disaster, if Trump isn’t hanging himself with his own rope already.
I'm not going to vote for Kamala because my vote is obviated by the US's decrepit "democracy". Doing so despite that, would be unhinged, and make me complicit in genocide (among plenty of other problematic stuff) for no material benefit to anyone.
Ethics aside, there's still no functional reason for me to vote for Harris.
EDIT: I'd just add that if Walz was actually a progressive champion or like Bernie Sanders he wouldn't be getting called a centrist by Nancy Pelosi.
From a current US political point of view when you have a right wing and a centrist party he is on the left hand side of this mostly shortened scale. Walz seems to be to the left of the median when it comes to US politics. Even far to the left of it. If the full scale was in use he would still probably be center left.
At least that is how I understand his politics.
Walz would like to see an increase on one stream of income, however: capital gains. He proposes a 1.5% surcharge on capital gains and dividends
I said before if this was a choice between a rock and Trump, I’d still vote for the rock, because Trump can’t even clear that bare minimum bar for me. Why can’t Republicans run somebody like John McCain, or even Mitt fucking Romney? Why is the current orange alternative much, much worse than electing a fucking rock? Are maga that offended that their chosen god and savior could be worse than an inanimate object? Seems to be more of a problem with their own candidate or themselves, rather than zombie Biden, no?
Besides, I rather take part in and witness the historical milestone of a rock getting elected into office, while at the same time also witnessing the equally significant historical milestone of a billionaire going to prison for once and getting his just deserts, because I’m petty. Well, can’t be more petty than the maga crowd, right? lol
But holy fuck, I severely underestimated Kamala. I thought she was going for the easy and obvious choice of Josh Shapiro to lock in purple Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes. Until this guy's skeletons started coming out of the closet (like ruling a case where the victim with multiple stab wounds was a suicide, Republicans can just use that and say he covered up a murder). If Republicans know about his skeletons, then pretty sure Kamala and her advisors do too, and good on them for staying a step ahead on that front. Plus, having two DAs on the same ticket doesn't strike a good balance.
I didn't really know who Tim Walz was before yesterday. Then when I read about him, I thought, "Wait, this is the same guy who passed free school lunches in Minnesota? Sign me up!" If free school lunches were a thing back in my day, I wouldn't have starved myself to save my lunch money to buy video games (but then again, that also means I wouldn't have gotten lunch money in the first place, so...). The more I read about this dude, the more he sounds like Bernie. So wait, isn't he just a plumper Bernie Sanders? Wow, now Kamala's campaign has even more momentum and excitement (if it hasn't already)!
My predictions in this thread have been ass so far. First, I thought DPB was going to win his bet with his friend, then failed to see Biden drop out. Then I was cocksure about Josh Shapiro being the VP pick because PA, then Kamala one-ups me and picks Bernie Sanders, err, Tim Walz. You know what, third time's the charm, right? I'll do you guys and America a favor and predict Trump to win this November, because why not. If I have to become an Inverse Cramer meme for the greater good, then so be it, you guys can thank me in November.
One thing I can say for sure is that GH still won't vote for Kamala because he's GH, and nothing will ever be good enough for him to vote for someone due to ever-shifting goalposts, that are by this point too far up in the sky (or up his ***) for any realistic candidate to reach.
That's not to say idealists like him are useless, they have their place and purpose in reminding what humanity can do better and strive for. But it gets tiring putting up with their smugness just from opting out of the trolley problems forced upon the rest of us, while doing nothing themselves (or making things worse). Those trolleys are going to keep coming whether you like them or not. The moral horse is all they have, and when the solutions they offer is either have nothing to do with the switch, or sometimes even pulling the switch on the trolley making it goes faster to the rest of the victims farther down the rails, I don't think it helps. They could do a better job of inspiring people to be better, but wind up doing the opposite instead with non-solutions like these and grandstanding about it. America isn’t so lost and irredeemable to warrant speeding up the trolley as a solution, have you seen the other fascist and shithole countries? This place is heaven comparatively, and people understandably want to keep things that way.
All Kamala has to do is not have any major fuckups in the next three months. Can she do it? I wouldn’t hold my breath. Putin and the Russian propaganda machine will be working overtime to secure a Trump presidency. Bibi, Hamas, and all the other Mid East shit-stirrers beginning with the letter H will definitely muck everything up, if they haven’t already for Biden. Who knows what winnie the xi and ccp got planned. At this point, Kamala and her advisors better be up to par with the Ubuyashiki clan and their predictive ability to read the future in order to avoid calamity and disaster, if Trump isn’t hanging himself with his own rope already.
I'm not going to vote for Kamala because my vote is obviated by the US's decrepit "democracy". Doing so despite that, would be unhinged, and make me complicit in genocide (among plenty of other problematic stuff) for no material benefit to anyone.
Ethics aside, there's still no functional reason for me to vote for Harris.
EDIT: I'd just add that if Walz was actually a progressive champion or like Bernie Sanders he wouldn't be getting called a centrist by Nancy Pelosi.
From a current US political point of view when you have a right wing and a centrist party he is on the left hand side of this mostly shortened scale. Walz seems to be to the left of the median when it comes to US politics. Even far to the left of it. If the full scale was in use he would still probably be center left.
Basically suggesting spending on schools etc instead of cutting taxes. Even suggesting increases to fund more programs instead of cutting back.
There's reminding everyone that we should aspire to do better, but then there's also letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I enjoy GH's posting when it's the former but it's been a lot of the latter as well.
When you set your standard so high, that the real world fails to match it, and your response is to throw your hands up and say it's pointless to interact with what we have now, you have to wonder if it's not cynical. It's like talking about the journey of a thousand miles, and saying well, we can't get there in one shot, so fuck it, it's not worth taking that first step.
Do I wish this country had its act properly together? Yes. Do I think we should be shaping up faster than we do? Yes. Do I think there's any chance in hell we get where we need to be if we let the Trumpers win? Hell no. There's no acknowledging the world we're in for him, there's just hoping it happens all of a sudden. I get and appreciate the discussions GH has had with basically all of us to elucidate the goals we can set as a country, but the posts that are basically him chiding us and everyone else for not being on his level are exhausting to keep reading.
I said before if this was a choice between a rock and Trump, I’d still vote for the rock, because Trump can’t even clear that bare minimum bar for me. Why can’t Republicans run somebody like John McCain, or even Mitt fucking Romney? Why is the current orange alternative much, much worse than electing a fucking rock? Are maga that offended that their chosen god and savior could be worse than an inanimate object? Seems to be more of a problem with their own candidate or themselves, rather than zombie Biden, no?
Besides, I rather take part in and witness the historical milestone of a rock getting elected into office, while at the same time also witnessing the equally significant historical milestone of a billionaire going to prison for once and getting his just deserts, because I’m petty. Well, can’t be more petty than the maga crowd, right? lol
But holy fuck, I severely underestimated Kamala. I thought she was going for the easy and obvious choice of Josh Shapiro to lock in purple Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes. Until this guy's skeletons started coming out of the closet (like ruling a case where the victim with multiple stab wounds was a suicide, Republicans can just use that and say he covered up a murder). If Republicans know about his skeletons, then pretty sure Kamala and her advisors do too, and good on them for staying a step ahead on that front. Plus, having two DAs on the same ticket doesn't strike a good balance.
I didn't really know who Tim Walz was before yesterday. Then when I read about him, I thought, "Wait, this is the same guy who passed free school lunches in Minnesota? Sign me up!" If free school lunches were a thing back in my day, I wouldn't have starved myself to save my lunch money to buy video games (but then again, that also means I wouldn't have gotten lunch money in the first place, so...). The more I read about this dude, the more he sounds like Bernie. So wait, isn't he just a plumper Bernie Sanders? Wow, now Kamala's campaign has even more momentum and excitement (if it hasn't already)!
My predictions in this thread have been ass so far. First, I thought DPB was going to win his bet with his friend, then failed to see Biden drop out. Then I was cocksure about Josh Shapiro being the VP pick because PA, then Kamala one-ups me and picks Bernie Sanders, err, Tim Walz. You know what, third time's the charm, right? I'll do you guys and America a favor and predict Trump to win this November, because why not. If I have to become an Inverse Cramer meme for the greater good, then so be it, you guys can thank me in November.
One thing I can say for sure is that GH still won't vote for Kamala because he's GH, and nothing will ever be good enough for him to vote for someone due to ever-shifting goalposts, that are by this point too far up in the sky (or up his ***) for any realistic candidate to reach.
That's not to say idealists like him are useless, they have their place and purpose in reminding what humanity can do better and strive for. But it gets tiring putting up with their smugness just from opting out of the trolley problems forced upon the rest of us, while doing nothing themselves (or making things worse). Those trolleys are going to keep coming whether you like them or not. The moral horse is all they have, and when the solutions they offer is either have nothing to do with the switch, or sometimes even pulling the switch on the trolley making it goes faster to the rest of the victims farther down the rails, I don't think it helps. They could do a better job of inspiring people to be better, but wind up doing the opposite instead with non-solutions like these and grandstanding about it. America isn’t so lost and irredeemable to warrant speeding up the trolley as a solution, have you seen the other fascist and shithole countries? This place is heaven comparatively, and people understandably want to keep things that way.
All Kamala has to do is not have any major fuckups in the next three months. Can she do it? I wouldn’t hold my breath. Putin and the Russian propaganda machine will be working overtime to secure a Trump presidency. Bibi, Hamas, and all the other Mid East shit-stirrers beginning with the letter H will definitely muck everything up, if they haven’t already for Biden. Who knows what winnie the xi and ccp got planned. At this point, Kamala and her advisors better be up to par with the Ubuyashiki clan and their predictive ability to read the future in order to avoid calamity and disaster, if Trump isn’t hanging himself with his own rope already.
I'm not going to vote for Kamala because my vote is obviated by the US's decrepit "democracy". Doing so despite that, would be unhinged, and make me complicit in genocide (among plenty of other problematic stuff) for no material benefit to anyone.
Ethics aside, there's still no functional reason for me to vote for Harris.
EDIT: I'd just add that if Walz was actually a progressive champion or like Bernie Sanders he wouldn't be getting called a centrist by Nancy Pelosi.
From a current US political point of view when you have a right wing and a centrist party he is on the left hand side of this mostly shortened scale. Walz seems to be to the left of the median when it comes to US politics. Even far to the left of it. If the full scale was in use he would still probably be center left.
At least that is how I understand his politics.
Walz would like to see an increase on one stream of income, however: capital gains. He proposes a 1.5% surcharge on capital gains and dividends
Basically suggesting spending on schools etc instead of cutting taxes. Even suggesting increases to fund more programs instead of cutting back.
There's reminding everyone that we should aspire to do better, but then there's also letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I enjoy GH's posting when it's the former but it's been a lot of the latter as well.
When you set your standard so high, that the real world fails to match it, and your response is to throw your hands up and say it's pointless to interact with what we have now, you have to wonder if it's not cynical. It's like talking about the journey of a thousand miles, and saying well, we can't get there in one shot, so fuck it, it's not worth taking that first step.
Do I wish this country had its act properly together? Yes. Do I think we should be shaping up faster than we do? Yes. Do I think there's any chance in hell we get where we need to be if we let the Trumpers win? Hell no. There's no acknowledging the world we're in for him, there's just hoping it happens all of a sudden. I get and appreciate the discussions GH has had with basically all of us to elucidate the goals we can set as a country, but the posts that are basically him chiding us and everyone else for not being on his level are exhausting to keep reading.
This sort of mentality is why ending constitutionally legal slavery in the US is still a goal in the US and not an accomplishment imo
I said before if this was a choice between a rock and Trump, I’d still vote for the rock, because Trump can’t even clear that bare minimum bar for me. Why can’t Republicans run somebody like John McCain, or even Mitt fucking Romney? Why is the current orange alternative much, much worse than electing a fucking rock? Are maga that offended that their chosen god and savior could be worse than an inanimate object? Seems to be more of a problem with their own candidate or themselves, rather than zombie Biden, no?
Besides, I rather take part in and witness the historical milestone of a rock getting elected into office, while at the same time also witnessing the equally significant historical milestone of a billionaire going to prison for once and getting his just deserts, because I’m petty. Well, can’t be more petty than the maga crowd, right? lol
But holy fuck, I severely underestimated Kamala. I thought she was going for the easy and obvious choice of Josh Shapiro to lock in purple Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes. Until this guy's skeletons started coming out of the closet (like ruling a case where the victim with multiple stab wounds was a suicide, Republicans can just use that and say he covered up a murder). If Republicans know about his skeletons, then pretty sure Kamala and her advisors do too, and good on them for staying a step ahead on that front. Plus, having two DAs on the same ticket doesn't strike a good balance.
I didn't really know who Tim Walz was before yesterday. Then when I read about him, I thought, "Wait, this is the same guy who passed free school lunches in Minnesota? Sign me up!" If free school lunches were a thing back in my day, I wouldn't have starved myself to save my lunch money to buy video games (but then again, that also means I wouldn't have gotten lunch money in the first place, so...). The more I read about this dude, the more he sounds like Bernie. So wait, isn't he just a plumper Bernie Sanders? Wow, now Kamala's campaign has even more momentum and excitement (if it hasn't already)!
My predictions in this thread have been ass so far. First, I thought DPB was going to win his bet with his friend, then failed to see Biden drop out. Then I was cocksure about Josh Shapiro being the VP pick because PA, then Kamala one-ups me and picks Bernie Sanders, err, Tim Walz. You know what, third time's the charm, right? I'll do you guys and America a favor and predict Trump to win this November, because why not. If I have to become an Inverse Cramer meme for the greater good, then so be it, you guys can thank me in November.
One thing I can say for sure is that GH still won't vote for Kamala because he's GH, and nothing will ever be good enough for him to vote for someone due to ever-shifting goalposts, that are by this point too far up in the sky (or up his ***) for any realistic candidate to reach.
That's not to say idealists like him are useless, they have their place and purpose in reminding what humanity can do better and strive for. But it gets tiring putting up with their smugness just from opting out of the trolley problems forced upon the rest of us, while doing nothing themselves (or making things worse). Those trolleys are going to keep coming whether you like them or not. The moral horse is all they have, and when the solutions they offer is either have nothing to do with the switch, or sometimes even pulling the switch on the trolley making it goes faster to the rest of the victims farther down the rails, I don't think it helps. They could do a better job of inspiring people to be better, but wind up doing the opposite instead with non-solutions like these and grandstanding about it. America isn’t so lost and irredeemable to warrant speeding up the trolley as a solution, have you seen the other fascist and shithole countries? This place is heaven comparatively, and people understandably want to keep things that way.
All Kamala has to do is not have any major fuckups in the next three months. Can she do it? I wouldn’t hold my breath. Putin and the Russian propaganda machine will be working overtime to secure a Trump presidency. Bibi, Hamas, and all the other Mid East shit-stirrers beginning with the letter H will definitely muck everything up, if they haven’t already for Biden. Who knows what winnie the xi and ccp got planned. At this point, Kamala and her advisors better be up to par with the Ubuyashiki clan and their predictive ability to read the future in order to avoid calamity and disaster, if Trump isn’t hanging himself with his own rope already.
I'm not going to vote for Kamala because my vote is obviated by the US's decrepit "democracy". Doing so despite that, would be unhinged, and make me complicit in genocide (among plenty of other problematic stuff) for no material benefit to anyone.
Ethics aside, there's still no functional reason for me to vote for Harris.
EDIT: I'd just add that if Walz was actually a progressive champion or like Bernie Sanders he wouldn't be getting called a centrist by Nancy Pelosi.
From a current US political point of view when you have a right wing and a centrist party he is on the left hand side of this mostly shortened scale. Walz seems to be to the left of the median when it comes to US politics. Even far to the left of it. If the full scale was in use he would still probably be center left.
At least that is how I understand his politics.
Walz would like to see an increase on one stream of income, however: capital gains. He proposes a 1.5% surcharge on capital gains and dividends
Basically suggesting spending on schools etc instead of cutting taxes. Even suggesting increases to fund more programs instead of cutting back.
There's reminding everyone that we should aspire to do better, but then there's also letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I enjoy GH's posting when it's the former but it's been a lot of the latter as well.
When you set your standard so high, that the real world fails to match it, and your response is to throw your hands up and say it's pointless to interact with what we have now, you have to wonder if it's not cynical. It's like talking about the journey of a thousand miles, and saying well, we can't get there in one shot, so fuck it, it's not worth taking that first step.
Do I wish this country had its act properly together? Yes. Do I think we should be shaping up faster than we do? Yes. Do I think there's any chance in hell we get where we need to be if we let the Trumpers win? Hell no. There's no acknowledging the world we're in for him, there's just hoping it happens all of a sudden. I get and appreciate the discussions GH has had with basically all of us to elucidate the goals we can set as a country, but the posts that are basically him chiding us and everyone else for not being on his level are exhausting to keep reading.
This sort of mentality is why ending constitutionally legal slavery in the US is still a goal in the US and not an accomplishment imo
Yeah, it's my mentality, and not the electoral college. It's not the Senate. It's not the process for making constitutional amendments. It's not the 2/3 majority required to pass new laws. It's not the filibuster. It's not the superconservative court made with lifetime appointments. It's not any of that pesky technical mumbo jumbo that stops us from making progress. No. It's little old me, thinking things should be better and that those things shouldn't exist. I'm in the way of it all. Fuck, it's so simple now. At least you make my point.
I said before if this was a choice between a rock and Trump, I’d still vote for the rock, because Trump can’t even clear that bare minimum bar for me. Why can’t Republicans run somebody like John McCain, or even Mitt fucking Romney? Why is the current orange alternative much, much worse than electing a fucking rock? Are maga that offended that their chosen god and savior could be worse than an inanimate object? Seems to be more of a problem with their own candidate or themselves, rather than zombie Biden, no?
Besides, I rather take part in and witness the historical milestone of a rock getting elected into office, while at the same time also witnessing the equally significant historical milestone of a billionaire going to prison for once and getting his just deserts, because I’m petty. Well, can’t be more petty than the maga crowd, right? lol
But holy fuck, I severely underestimated Kamala. I thought she was going for the easy and obvious choice of Josh Shapiro to lock in purple Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes. Until this guy's skeletons started coming out of the closet (like ruling a case where the victim with multiple stab wounds was a suicide, Republicans can just use that and say he covered up a murder). If Republicans know about his skeletons, then pretty sure Kamala and her advisors do too, and good on them for staying a step ahead on that front. Plus, having two DAs on the same ticket doesn't strike a good balance.
I didn't really know who Tim Walz was before yesterday. Then when I read about him, I thought, "Wait, this is the same guy who passed free school lunches in Minnesota? Sign me up!" If free school lunches were a thing back in my day, I wouldn't have starved myself to save my lunch money to buy video games (but then again, that also means I wouldn't have gotten lunch money in the first place, so...). The more I read about this dude, the more he sounds like Bernie. So wait, isn't he just a plumper Bernie Sanders? Wow, now Kamala's campaign has even more momentum and excitement (if it hasn't already)!
My predictions in this thread have been ass so far. First, I thought DPB was going to win his bet with his friend, then failed to see Biden drop out. Then I was cocksure about Josh Shapiro being the VP pick because PA, then Kamala one-ups me and picks Bernie Sanders, err, Tim Walz. You know what, third time's the charm, right? I'll do you guys and America a favor and predict Trump to win this November, because why not. If I have to become an Inverse Cramer meme for the greater good, then so be it, you guys can thank me in November.
One thing I can say for sure is that GH still won't vote for Kamala because he's GH, and nothing will ever be good enough for him to vote for someone due to ever-shifting goalposts, that are by this point too far up in the sky (or up his ***) for any realistic candidate to reach.
That's not to say idealists like him are useless, they have their place and purpose in reminding what humanity can do better and strive for. But it gets tiring putting up with their smugness just from opting out of the trolley problems forced upon the rest of us, while doing nothing themselves (or making things worse). Those trolleys are going to keep coming whether you like them or not. The moral horse is all they have, and when the solutions they offer is either have nothing to do with the switch, or sometimes even pulling the switch on the trolley making it goes faster to the rest of the victims farther down the rails, I don't think it helps. They could do a better job of inspiring people to be better, but wind up doing the opposite instead with non-solutions like these and grandstanding about it. America isn’t so lost and irredeemable to warrant speeding up the trolley as a solution, have you seen the other fascist and shithole countries? This place is heaven comparatively, and people understandably want to keep things that way.
All Kamala has to do is not have any major fuckups in the next three months. Can she do it? I wouldn’t hold my breath. Putin and the Russian propaganda machine will be working overtime to secure a Trump presidency. Bibi, Hamas, and all the other Mid East shit-stirrers beginning with the letter H will definitely muck everything up, if they haven’t already for Biden. Who knows what winnie the xi and ccp got planned. At this point, Kamala and her advisors better be up to par with the Ubuyashiki clan and their predictive ability to read the future in order to avoid calamity and disaster, if Trump isn’t hanging himself with his own rope already.
I'm not going to vote for Kamala because my vote is obviated by the US's decrepit "democracy". Doing so despite that, would be unhinged, and make me complicit in genocide (among plenty of other problematic stuff) for no material benefit to anyone.
Ethics aside, there's still no functional reason for me to vote for Harris.
EDIT: I'd just add that if Walz was actually a progressive champion or like Bernie Sanders he wouldn't be getting called a centrist by Nancy Pelosi.
From a current US political point of view when you have a right wing and a centrist party he is on the left hand side of this mostly shortened scale. Walz seems to be to the left of the median when it comes to US politics. Even far to the left of it. If the full scale was in use he would still probably be center left.
At least that is how I understand his politics.
Walz would like to see an increase on one stream of income, however: capital gains. He proposes a 1.5% surcharge on capital gains and dividends
Basically suggesting spending on schools etc instead of cutting taxes. Even suggesting increases to fund more programs instead of cutting back.
There's reminding everyone that we should aspire to do better, but then there's also letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I enjoy GH's posting when it's the former but it's been a lot of the latter as well.
When you set your standard so high, that the real world fails to match it, and your response is to throw your hands up and say it's pointless to interact with what we have now, you have to wonder if it's not cynical. It's like talking about the journey of a thousand miles, and saying well, we can't get there in one shot, so fuck it, it's not worth taking that first step.
Do I wish this country had its act properly together? Yes. Do I think we should be shaping up faster than we do? Yes. Do I think there's any chance in hell we get where we need to be if we let the Trumpers win? Hell no. There's no acknowledging the world we're in for him, there's just hoping it happens all of a sudden. I get and appreciate the discussions GH has had with basically all of us to elucidate the goals we can set as a country, but the posts that are basically him chiding us and everyone else for not being on his level are exhausting to keep reading.
This sort of mentality is why ending constitutionally legal slavery in the US is still a goal in the US and not an accomplishment imo
Yeah, it's my mentality, and not the electoral college. It's not the Senate. It's not the process for making constitutional amendments. It's not the 2/3 majority required to pass new laws. It's not the filibuster. It's not the superconservative court made with lifetime appointments. It's not any of that pesky technical mumbo jumbo that stops us from making progress. No. It's little old me, thinking things should be better and that those things shouldn't exist. I'm in the way of it all. Fuck, it's so simple now.
It's all of that. Though it's not really "little old [you]" so much as the general malaise and the learned helplessness that comes with the Hamster Wheel mentality generally that you happened to exemplify in that previous post .
I said before if this was a choice between a rock and Trump, I’d still vote for the rock, because Trump can’t even clear that bare minimum bar for me. Why can’t Republicans run somebody like John McCain, or even Mitt fucking Romney? Why is the current orange alternative much, much worse than electing a fucking rock? Are maga that offended that their chosen god and savior could be worse than an inanimate object? Seems to be more of a problem with their own candidate or themselves, rather than zombie Biden, no?
Besides, I rather take part in and witness the historical milestone of a rock getting elected into office, while at the same time also witnessing the equally significant historical milestone of a billionaire going to prison for once and getting his just deserts, because I’m petty. Well, can’t be more petty than the maga crowd, right? lol
But holy fuck, I severely underestimated Kamala. I thought she was going for the easy and obvious choice of Josh Shapiro to lock in purple Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes. Until this guy's skeletons started coming out of the closet (like ruling a case where the victim with multiple stab wounds was a suicide, Republicans can just use that and say he covered up a murder). If Republicans know about his skeletons, then pretty sure Kamala and her advisors do too, and good on them for staying a step ahead on that front. Plus, having two DAs on the same ticket doesn't strike a good balance.
I didn't really know who Tim Walz was before yesterday. Then when I read about him, I thought, "Wait, this is the same guy who passed free school lunches in Minnesota? Sign me up!" If free school lunches were a thing back in my day, I wouldn't have starved myself to save my lunch money to buy video games (but then again, that also means I wouldn't have gotten lunch money in the first place, so...). The more I read about this dude, the more he sounds like Bernie. So wait, isn't he just a plumper Bernie Sanders? Wow, now Kamala's campaign has even more momentum and excitement (if it hasn't already)!
My predictions in this thread have been ass so far. First, I thought DPB was going to win his bet with his friend, then failed to see Biden drop out. Then I was cocksure about Josh Shapiro being the VP pick because PA, then Kamala one-ups me and picks Bernie Sanders, err, Tim Walz. You know what, third time's the charm, right? I'll do you guys and America a favor and predict Trump to win this November, because why not. If I have to become an Inverse Cramer meme for the greater good, then so be it, you guys can thank me in November.
One thing I can say for sure is that GH still won't vote for Kamala because he's GH, and nothing will ever be good enough for him to vote for someone due to ever-shifting goalposts, that are by this point too far up in the sky (or up his ***) for any realistic candidate to reach.
That's not to say idealists like him are useless, they have their place and purpose in reminding what humanity can do better and strive for. But it gets tiring putting up with their smugness just from opting out of the trolley problems forced upon the rest of us, while doing nothing themselves (or making things worse). Those trolleys are going to keep coming whether you like them or not. The moral horse is all they have, and when the solutions they offer is either have nothing to do with the switch, or sometimes even pulling the switch on the trolley making it goes faster to the rest of the victims farther down the rails, I don't think it helps. They could do a better job of inspiring people to be better, but wind up doing the opposite instead with non-solutions like these and grandstanding about it. America isn’t so lost and irredeemable to warrant speeding up the trolley as a solution, have you seen the other fascist and shithole countries? This place is heaven comparatively, and people understandably want to keep things that way.
All Kamala has to do is not have any major fuckups in the next three months. Can she do it? I wouldn’t hold my breath. Putin and the Russian propaganda machine will be working overtime to secure a Trump presidency. Bibi, Hamas, and all the other Mid East shit-stirrers beginning with the letter H will definitely muck everything up, if they haven’t already for Biden. Who knows what winnie the xi and ccp got planned. At this point, Kamala and her advisors better be up to par with the Ubuyashiki clan and their predictive ability to read the future in order to avoid calamity and disaster, if Trump isn’t hanging himself with his own rope already.
I'm not going to vote for Kamala because my vote is obviated by the US's decrepit "democracy". Doing so despite that, would be unhinged, and make me complicit in genocide (among plenty of other problematic stuff) for no material benefit to anyone.
Ethics aside, there's still no functional reason for me to vote for Harris.
EDIT: I'd just add that if Walz was actually a progressive champion or like Bernie Sanders he wouldn't be getting called a centrist by Nancy Pelosi.
From a current US political point of view when you have a right wing and a centrist party he is on the left hand side of this mostly shortened scale. Walz seems to be to the left of the median when it comes to US politics. Even far to the left of it. If the full scale was in use he would still probably be center left.
At least that is how I understand his politics.
Walz would like to see an increase on one stream of income, however: capital gains. He proposes a 1.5% surcharge on capital gains and dividends
Basically suggesting spending on schools etc instead of cutting taxes. Even suggesting increases to fund more programs instead of cutting back.
There's reminding everyone that we should aspire to do better, but then there's also letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I enjoy GH's posting when it's the former but it's been a lot of the latter as well.
When you set your standard so high, that the real world fails to match it, and your response is to throw your hands up and say it's pointless to interact with what we have now, you have to wonder if it's not cynical. It's like talking about the journey of a thousand miles, and saying well, we can't get there in one shot, so fuck it, it's not worth taking that first step.
Do I wish this country had its act properly together? Yes. Do I think we should be shaping up faster than we do? Yes. Do I think there's any chance in hell we get where we need to be if we let the Trumpers win? Hell no. There's no acknowledging the world we're in for him, there's just hoping it happens all of a sudden. I get and appreciate the discussions GH has had with basically all of us to elucidate the goals we can set as a country, but the posts that are basically him chiding us and everyone else for not being on his level are exhausting to keep reading.
This sort of mentality is why ending constitutionally legal slavery in the US is still a goal in the US and not an accomplishment imo
Yeah, it's my mentality, and not the electoral college. It's not the Senate. It's not the process for making constitutional amendments. It's not the 2/3 majority required to pass new laws. It's not the filibuster. It's not the superconservative court made with lifetime appointments. It's not any of that pesky technical mumbo jumbo that stops us from making progress. No. It's little old me, thinking things should be better and that those things shouldn't exist. I'm in the way of it all. Fuck, it's so simple now.
It's all of that. Though it's not really "little old [you]" so much as the general malaise and the learned helplessness that comes with the Hamster Wheel mentality generally that you happened to exemplify in that previous post .
It's not so much learned helplessness as it is an understanding that the alternative of revolution is chaos and you have no way to guarantee it yields the result you want. Anything that can overturn all those structural dampers I just listed off will almost necessarily burn the entire basis of the US to the ground. While I see the implications of that statement as much as you, I can't agree that setting everything on fire will ensure that the right trees grow from the ashes. It's too complicated for me to say that.
I said before if this was a choice between a rock and Trump, I’d still vote for the rock, because Trump can’t even clear that bare minimum bar for me. Why can’t Republicans run somebody like John McCain, or even Mitt fucking Romney? Why is the current orange alternative much, much worse than electing a fucking rock? Are maga that offended that their chosen god and savior could be worse than an inanimate object? Seems to be more of a problem with their own candidate or themselves, rather than zombie Biden, no?
Besides, I rather take part in and witness the historical milestone of a rock getting elected into office, while at the same time also witnessing the equally significant historical milestone of a billionaire going to prison for once and getting his just deserts, because I’m petty. Well, can’t be more petty than the maga crowd, right? lol
But holy fuck, I severely underestimated Kamala. I thought she was going for the easy and obvious choice of Josh Shapiro to lock in purple Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes. Until this guy's skeletons started coming out of the closet (like ruling a case where the victim with multiple stab wounds was a suicide, Republicans can just use that and say he covered up a murder). If Republicans know about his skeletons, then pretty sure Kamala and her advisors do too, and good on them for staying a step ahead on that front. Plus, having two DAs on the same ticket doesn't strike a good balance.
I didn't really know who Tim Walz was before yesterday. Then when I read about him, I thought, "Wait, this is the same guy who passed free school lunches in Minnesota? Sign me up!" If free school lunches were a thing back in my day, I wouldn't have starved myself to save my lunch money to buy video games (but then again, that also means I wouldn't have gotten lunch money in the first place, so...). The more I read about this dude, the more he sounds like Bernie. So wait, isn't he just a plumper Bernie Sanders? Wow, now Kamala's campaign has even more momentum and excitement (if it hasn't already)!
My predictions in this thread have been ass so far. First, I thought DPB was going to win his bet with his friend, then failed to see Biden drop out. Then I was cocksure about Josh Shapiro being the VP pick because PA, then Kamala one-ups me and picks Bernie Sanders, err, Tim Walz. You know what, third time's the charm, right? I'll do you guys and America a favor and predict Trump to win this November, because why not. If I have to become an Inverse Cramer meme for the greater good, then so be it, you guys can thank me in November.
One thing I can say for sure is that GH still won't vote for Kamala because he's GH, and nothing will ever be good enough for him to vote for someone due to ever-shifting goalposts, that are by this point too far up in the sky (or up his ***) for any realistic candidate to reach.
That's not to say idealists like him are useless, they have their place and purpose in reminding what humanity can do better and strive for. But it gets tiring putting up with their smugness just from opting out of the trolley problems forced upon the rest of us, while doing nothing themselves (or making things worse). Those trolleys are going to keep coming whether you like them or not. The moral horse is all they have, and when the solutions they offer is either have nothing to do with the switch, or sometimes even pulling the switch on the trolley making it goes faster to the rest of the victims farther down the rails, I don't think it helps. They could do a better job of inspiring people to be better, but wind up doing the opposite instead with non-solutions like these and grandstanding about it. America isn’t so lost and irredeemable to warrant speeding up the trolley as a solution, have you seen the other fascist and shithole countries? This place is heaven comparatively, and people understandably want to keep things that way.
All Kamala has to do is not have any major fuckups in the next three months. Can she do it? I wouldn’t hold my breath. Putin and the Russian propaganda machine will be working overtime to secure a Trump presidency. Bibi, Hamas, and all the other Mid East shit-stirrers beginning with the letter H will definitely muck everything up, if they haven’t already for Biden. Who knows what winnie the xi and ccp got planned. At this point, Kamala and her advisors better be up to par with the Ubuyashiki clan and their predictive ability to read the future in order to avoid calamity and disaster, if Trump isn’t hanging himself with his own rope already.
I'm not going to vote for Kamala because my vote is obviated by the US's decrepit "democracy". Doing so despite that, would be unhinged, and make me complicit in genocide (among plenty of other problematic stuff) for no material benefit to anyone.
Ethics aside, there's still no functional reason for me to vote for Harris.
EDIT: I'd just add that if Walz was actually a progressive champion or like Bernie Sanders he wouldn't be getting called a centrist by Nancy Pelosi.
From a current US political point of view when you have a right wing and a centrist party he is on the left hand side of this mostly shortened scale. Walz seems to be to the left of the median when it comes to US politics. Even far to the left of it. If the full scale was in use he would still probably be center left.
At least that is how I understand his politics.
Walz would like to see an increase on one stream of income, however: capital gains. He proposes a 1.5% surcharge on capital gains and dividends
Basically suggesting spending on schools etc instead of cutting taxes. Even suggesting increases to fund more programs instead of cutting back.
There's reminding everyone that we should aspire to do better, but then there's also letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I enjoy GH's posting when it's the former but it's been a lot of the latter as well.
When you set your standard so high, that the real world fails to match it, and your response is to throw your hands up and say it's pointless to interact with what we have now, you have to wonder if it's not cynical. It's like talking about the journey of a thousand miles, and saying well, we can't get there in one shot, so fuck it, it's not worth taking that first step.
Do I wish this country had its act properly together? Yes. Do I think we should be shaping up faster than we do? Yes. Do I think there's any chance in hell we get where we need to be if we let the Trumpers win? Hell no. There's no acknowledging the world we're in for him, there's just hoping it happens all of a sudden. I get and appreciate the discussions GH has had with basically all of us to elucidate the goals we can set as a country, but the posts that are basically him chiding us and everyone else for not being on his level are exhausting to keep reading.
This sort of mentality is why ending constitutionally legal slavery in the US is still a goal in the US and not an accomplishment imo
Yeah, it's my mentality, and not the electoral college. It's not the Senate. It's not the process for making constitutional amendments. It's not the 2/3 majority required to pass new laws. It's not the filibuster. It's not the superconservative court made with lifetime appointments. It's not any of that pesky technical mumbo jumbo that stops us from making progress. No. It's little old me, thinking things should be better and that those things shouldn't exist. I'm in the way of it all. Fuck, it's so simple now.
It's all of that. Though it's not really "little old [you]" so much as the general malaise and the learned helplessness that comes with the Hamster Wheel mentality generally that you happened to exemplify in that previous post .
It's not so much learned helplessness as it is an understanding that the alternative of revolution is chaos and you have no way to guarantee it yields the result you want. Anything that can overturn all those structural dampers I just listed off will almost necessarily burn the entire basis of the US to the ground. While I see the implications of that statement as much as you, I can't agree that setting everything on fire will ensure that the right trees grow from the ashes. It's too complicated for me to say that.
That's part of why socialist study and praxis is so crucial.
I appreciate people's concerns/objections. While I try to maintain my revolutionary optimism the best I can, my position has never been that "setting everything on fire will ensure that the right trees grow from the ashes".
I said before if this was a choice between a rock and Trump, I’d still vote for the rock, because Trump can’t even clear that bare minimum bar for me. Why can’t Republicans run somebody like John McCain, or even Mitt fucking Romney? Why is the current orange alternative much, much worse than electing a fucking rock? Are maga that offended that their chosen god and savior could be worse than an inanimate object? Seems to be more of a problem with their own candidate or themselves, rather than zombie Biden, no?
Besides, I rather take part in and witness the historical milestone of a rock getting elected into office, while at the same time also witnessing the equally significant historical milestone of a billionaire going to prison for once and getting his just deserts, because I’m petty. Well, can’t be more petty than the maga crowd, right? lol
But holy fuck, I severely underestimated Kamala. I thought she was going for the easy and obvious choice of Josh Shapiro to lock in purple Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes. Until this guy's skeletons started coming out of the closet (like ruling a case where the victim with multiple stab wounds was a suicide, Republicans can just use that and say he covered up a murder). If Republicans know about his skeletons, then pretty sure Kamala and her advisors do too, and good on them for staying a step ahead on that front. Plus, having two DAs on the same ticket doesn't strike a good balance.
I didn't really know who Tim Walz was before yesterday. Then when I read about him, I thought, "Wait, this is the same guy who passed free school lunches in Minnesota? Sign me up!" If free school lunches were a thing back in my day, I wouldn't have starved myself to save my lunch money to buy video games (but then again, that also means I wouldn't have gotten lunch money in the first place, so...). The more I read about this dude, the more he sounds like Bernie. So wait, isn't he just a plumper Bernie Sanders? Wow, now Kamala's campaign has even more momentum and excitement (if it hasn't already)!
My predictions in this thread have been ass so far. First, I thought DPB was going to win his bet with his friend, then failed to see Biden drop out. Then I was cocksure about Josh Shapiro being the VP pick because PA, then Kamala one-ups me and picks Bernie Sanders, err, Tim Walz. You know what, third time's the charm, right? I'll do you guys and America a favor and predict Trump to win this November, because why not. If I have to become an Inverse Cramer meme for the greater good, then so be it, you guys can thank me in November.
One thing I can say for sure is that GH still won't vote for Kamala because he's GH, and nothing will ever be good enough for him to vote for someone due to ever-shifting goalposts, that are by this point too far up in the sky (or up his ***) for any realistic candidate to reach.
That's not to say idealists like him are useless, they have their place and purpose in reminding what humanity can do better and strive for. But it gets tiring putting up with their smugness just from opting out of the trolley problems forced upon the rest of us, while doing nothing themselves (or making things worse). Those trolleys are going to keep coming whether you like them or not. The moral horse is all they have, and when the solutions they offer is either have nothing to do with the switch, or sometimes even pulling the switch on the trolley making it goes faster to the rest of the victims farther down the rails, I don't think it helps. They could do a better job of inspiring people to be better, but wind up doing the opposite instead with non-solutions like these and grandstanding about it. America isn’t so lost and irredeemable to warrant speeding up the trolley as a solution, have you seen the other fascist and shithole countries? This place is heaven comparatively, and people understandably want to keep things that way.
All Kamala has to do is not have any major fuckups in the next three months. Can she do it? I wouldn’t hold my breath. Putin and the Russian propaganda machine will be working overtime to secure a Trump presidency. Bibi, Hamas, and all the other Mid East shit-stirrers beginning with the letter H will definitely muck everything up, if they haven’t already for Biden. Who knows what winnie the xi and ccp got planned. At this point, Kamala and her advisors better be up to par with the Ubuyashiki clan and their predictive ability to read the future in order to avoid calamity and disaster, if Trump isn’t hanging himself with his own rope already.
I'm not going to vote for Kamala because my vote is obviated by the US's decrepit "democracy". Doing so despite that, would be unhinged, and make me complicit in genocide (among plenty of other problematic stuff) for no material benefit to anyone.
Ethics aside, there's still no functional reason for me to vote for Harris.
EDIT: I'd just add that if Walz was actually a progressive champion or like Bernie Sanders he wouldn't be getting called a centrist by Nancy Pelosi.
From a current US political point of view when you have a right wing and a centrist party he is on the left hand side of this mostly shortened scale. Walz seems to be to the left of the median when it comes to US politics. Even far to the left of it. If the full scale was in use he would still probably be center left.
At least that is how I understand his politics.
Walz would like to see an increase on one stream of income, however: capital gains. He proposes a 1.5% surcharge on capital gains and dividends
Basically suggesting spending on schools etc instead of cutting taxes. Even suggesting increases to fund more programs instead of cutting back.
There's reminding everyone that we should aspire to do better, but then there's also letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. I enjoy GH's posting when it's the former but it's been a lot of the latter as well.
When you set your standard so high, that the real world fails to match it, and your response is to throw your hands up and say it's pointless to interact with what we have now, you have to wonder if it's not cynical. It's like talking about the journey of a thousand miles, and saying well, we can't get there in one shot, so fuck it, it's not worth taking that first step.
Do I wish this country had its act properly together? Yes. Do I think we should be shaping up faster than we do? Yes. Do I think there's any chance in hell we get where we need to be if we let the Trumpers win? Hell no. There's no acknowledging the world we're in for him, there's just hoping it happens all of a sudden. I get and appreciate the discussions GH has had with basically all of us to elucidate the goals we can set as a country, but the posts that are basically him chiding us and everyone else for not being on his level are exhausting to keep reading.
This sort of mentality is why ending constitutionally legal slavery in the US is still a goal in the US and not an accomplishment imo
Yeah, it's my mentality, and not the electoral college. It's not the Senate. It's not the process for making constitutional amendments. It's not the 2/3 majority required to pass new laws. It's not the filibuster. It's not the superconservative court made with lifetime appointments. It's not any of that pesky technical mumbo jumbo that stops us from making progress. No. It's little old me, thinking things should be better and that those things shouldn't exist. I'm in the way of it all. Fuck, it's so simple now. At least you make my point.
Should have joined the imaginary revolution. All revolutionaries are exempt from this lecture because they imagine they’re doing their part. Can I enlist you now comrade?
On August 07 2024 06:39 Uldridge wrote: Have you ever outlined how you think the social revolution should be enacted? If you have, I've missed it, so apologies for that.
Nope. They insist you have to reject the status quo and commit to the revolution before the details will be shared. So far Kwark and I have both signed on but so far no details are forthcoming. Perhaps we just need a few more people. Will you join us, comrade?
While it makes perfect sense to mitigate harm in the short term and vote for Kamala - which is a perfectly valid counter to GH's position - if there is no plan for the long term then GH's point is at least half valid. The mockery GH has received without any propositions for improvement to balance out that mockery is quite the display of high horse riding. Some people here need to ask themselves how useful they are on the path out of oppression when compared to GH. If their plan requires infinite steps towards their goal, then each single step is merely a ghost of a vision. That is GH's argument, and that is the reason why he quite rightfully holds on to his views.
EPT
