EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4068
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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lestye
United States4182 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23446 Posts
On September 20 2023 02:53 lestye wrote: Some might consider that a negative, but I think it might be one of his saving graces. I wish we could kill the idea that Trump is rich. He's especially vulnerable to bribes because his entire enterprise bleeds money and he had take out insane loans from sketchier and sketchier institutions. Saudi Arabia convincing Trump to go over and put a branded hotel/casino in their "Line" and live in it (/one of their other prestige projects) might be our best hope to avoid all hell breaking loose in the US after 2024. Unfortunately, the real consequence of being sentenced to prison in Georgia is probably the only thing that could motivate him and that's increasingly looking like it won't even be a possibility until after the 2024 election. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
I think formal attire fundamentally changes the way people operate, view themselves, and various other social/psychological dynamics. I think all of these dynamics make a politician a worse version of what I want them to be. I want them to be as informal, feeling like themselves, as a person, as often as possible. Especially when deciding on policy. Here’s what I want Fetterman to do: get his team to determine the cost of suits being worn by other senators. Compile that list, attach names and pictures to it and start asking people how many every day citizens could imagine themselves buying that suit. Why would a senator buy a $5000 suit? What does that do? Why are they living like that and why so they want to spend that much money on clothes? IMO it’s a symptom of a major cultural issue that needs to be eliminates and Fetterman is putting it on display | ||
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Simberto
Germany11616 Posts
On September 21 2023 01:02 Mohdoo wrote: Very interesting seeing the actual outrage over fetterman attire. Conservatives enthusiasm for authority and hierarchy seems to inch out the win against anti elite populism. Let's be fair here. There was no principle inching out a win against anything. Fetterman has a D next to his name. So what he does is bad for the country, and the second it is even slightly out of the norm, it is horrible and must be attacked to the absolute maximum possible. Us regressives work off of exactly one principle: Everyone who is not one of them is bad, and anything those people do is the work of satan. They would hold the exact opposite stance if it was one of their guys. In fact, they will still hold the exact opposite stance if it is one of their guys next week, and feel absolutely no hypocrisy in doing so, because they will find some small detail that makes this new situation totally different. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
On September 21 2023 02:32 Simberto wrote: Let's be fair here. There was no principle inching out a win against anything. Fetterman has a D next to his name. So what he does is bad for the country, and the second it is even slightly out of the norm, it is horrible and must be attacked to the absolute maximum possible. Us regressives work off of exactly one principle: Everyone who is not one of them is bad, and anything those people do is the work of satan. They would hold the exact opposite stance if it was one of their guys. In fact, they will still hold the exact opposite stance if it is one of their guys next week, and feel absolutely no hypocrisy in doing so, because they will find some small detail that makes this new situation totally different. This is mostly true, but I am reading between the lines here by reading reactions within conservative communities. There is a difference between the general partisan dissing and stuff that they legitimately believe in. They'll try to cheer for some kinda perceived optics win and condemn dems every time. But there is a different dynamic and general tone to reactions when it is something they actually hate. They actually hate the idea of Fetterman shattering this silly little performance art with ties and suits. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
On September 21 2023 03:00 JimmiC wrote: If they actually cared about decorum people like MTG (showing video of penis) Boebert (getting kicked out of a musical theatre production for vaping, groping, flash photos) amongst many other actions, would pariahs not media stars. Sims right, everything right now is just for show. R = good no matter what and D = bad no matter what. I think there is a big difference between decorum and stature/status. The suits represent a lot more than "being formal". It is about status, their position in society, the power they have, and the decisions they are asked to make. My impression is that conservatives think its very important for their leaders to have respected, elevated, and similar things. I've talked about this dynamic before, but it is common within rural communities for other positions of authority to be handled differently as well. Its legitimately weird the way football coaches are handled. This feels like harming society to them. In short: conservatives are generally a lot more ceremonial and generally like traditions. The position of leaders in society is a big part of that. They want them to feel elevated as a fundamental part of how they define leaders. They are leaders for a *reason* and they should be presented as such. That's my impression at least. Any conservatives please feel free to correct me. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25970 Posts
On September 21 2023 03:13 Mohdoo wrote: I think there is a big difference between decorum and stature/status. The suits represent a lot more than "being formal". It is about status, their position in society, the power they have, and the decisions they are asked to make. My impression is that conservatives think its very important for their leaders to have respected, elevated, and similar things. I've talked about this dynamic before, but it is common within rural communities for other positions of authority to be handled differently as well. Its legitimately weird the way football coaches are handled. This feels like harming society to them. In short: conservatives are generally a lot more ceremonial and generally like traditions. The position of leaders in society is a big part of that. They want them to feel elevated as a fundamental part of how they define leaders. They are leaders for a *reason* and they should be presented as such. That's my impression at least. Any conservatives please feel free to correct me. It’s an interesting angle to consider aye, and I think it definitely does reveal rather a lot about the underlying world view. Although how they may articulate it may be completely different, fundamentally they believe in hierarchy and for our betters to call the shots. In my country this extends as far to supporting institutions like Monarchy Even something like favourability towards working from home arrangements, and it doesn’t always come from a place of bitterness or hypocrisy. Not saying it neatly splits this way 100%, but it does to a noticeable degree, at least on my travels. Something just feels ‘off’ to such folks, to not be doing the rituals, putting on that uniform and working under one roof where all the hierarchies, formal and informal are very present and visible. That Protestant work ethic is pretty heavily cultural ingrained! | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
On September 21 2023 05:30 WombaT wrote: It’s an interesting angle to consider aye, and I think it definitely does reveal rather a lot about the underlying world view. Although how they may articulate it may be completely different, fundamentally they believe in hierarchy and for our betters to call the shots. In my country this extends as far to supporting institutions like Monarchy Even something like favourability towards working from home arrangements, and it doesn’t always come from a place of bitterness or hypocrisy. Not saying it neatly splits this way 100%, but it does to a noticeable degree, at least on my travels. Something just feels ‘off’ to such folks, to not be doing the rituals, putting on that uniform and working under one roof where all the hierarchies, formal and informal are very present and visible. That Protestant work ethic is pretty heavily cultural ingrained! Yup, I agree with your analysis. Another dynamic that shows this is the tendency for conservatives to focus a lot on issues that pertain to "society as a whole" without impacting folks in a noticeable way. Gay marriage is the most prominent example. A great number of conservatives absolutely couldn't stand the idea of gay marriage being federally legal. A lot of the arguments against it related to just the general rule list for the group they participate in. It was important to them for the country as a whole to be in line with what they consider ethical. Abortion is a different story, since I think it is fair to care about children you don't know personally. If they consider the unborn fetus a baby/kid/person, it is totally reasonable to not want our country to kill those. But topics like gay marriage are a lot more plainly, simply, a matter of group identity. | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
On September 21 2023 09:01 Mohdoo wrote: Yup, I agree with your analysis. Another dynamic that shows this is the tendency for conservatives to focus a lot on issues that pertain to "society as a whole" without impacting folks in a noticeable way. Gay marriage is the most prominent example. A great number of conservatives absolutely couldn't stand the idea of gay marriage being federally legal. A lot of the arguments against it related to just the general rule list for the group they participate in. It was important to them for the country as a whole to be in line with what they consider ethical. Abortion is a different story, since I think it is fair to care about children you don't know personally. If they consider the unborn fetus a baby/kid/person, it is totally reasonable to not want our country to kill those. But topics like gay marriage are a lot more plainly, simply, a matter of group identity. I'd believe em if they cared about kids after they are born. I think comparing it to Gay marriage is good enough. It doesn't impact them in any noticeable way., | ||
micronesia
United States24731 Posts
Once the shutdown (likely) starts, I'm essential (an 'excepted' employee) and will need to work without option for leave or any pay (until well-later). Meanwhile, the company will be doing major work on my property, and while I don't need to be home for all of it, I need to be there to monitor the critical tasks and make sure they're done right, among other reasons. I have enough emergency funds that I'm not worried about financially getting through the shutdown + work, but not being able to take time off to oversee the work is a problem. In theory, there's a way to get put in temporary furlough if your agency agrees, but I don't think they normally do that so it might be a struggle. It would be nice if the government just stayed open so life didn't need to get disrupted for such stupid reasons. Or, I guess, if I was non-essential then I'd have all day every day during the shutdown to monitor the work on my property since I'd just get sent home. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11616 Posts
On September 22 2023 21:32 micronesia wrote: The looming government shutdown is going to screw me over from the looks of it. I signed up for major paving work (replace driveway and walkways, some other demolition work, some brick work) on my property in the middle of the summer thinking it would be done by now, but due to a variety of factors that didn't happen. Weather is looking bad for next week, exacerbating the delays. Once the shutdown (likely) starts, I'm essential (an 'excepted' employee) and will need to work without option for leave or any pay (until well-later). Meanwhile, the company will be doing major work on my property, and while I don't need to be home for all of it, I need to be there to monitor the critical tasks and make sure they're done right, among other reasons. I have enough emergency funds that I'm not worried about financially getting through the shutdown + work, but not being able to take time off to oversee the work is a problem. In theory, there's a way to get put in temporary furlough if your agency agrees, but I don't think they normally do that so it might be a struggle. It would be nice if the government just stayed open so life didn't need to get disrupted for such stupid reasons. Or, I guess, if I was non-essential then I'd have all day every day during the shutdown to monitor the work on my property since I'd just get sent home. Wait, there is a shutdown again? Why does that happen every few months? Also, you get turned into a slave when the government shuts down? Having to work for no pay, and with no time off that you would usually have? That sounds fucking insane. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On September 22 2023 21:45 Simberto wrote: Wait, there is a shutdown again? Why does that happen every few months? The United States makes a budget to spend money, but has a separate mechanism for raising the debt ceiling on how much money they can borrow. Since we run a deficit the debt ceiling must be raised constantly, but it becomes a political issue every time it happens. We have a Republican congress that does the legislation and a Democrat president who signs it so they must have a general agreement on spending. On September 22 2023 21:45 Simberto wrote: Also, you get turned into a slave when the government shuts down? Having to work for no pay, and with no time off that you would usually have? That sounds fucking insane. You're still getting paid for working technically. Your check just doesn't arrive until after they approve the budget. This happens in the private sector as well and is only a problem if you don't trust the person who is going to pay you. When I was a contractor we would work "at risk" because our contracts for the year hadn't been approved yet but we would still work in January without them. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11616 Posts
Because it looks pretty silly and emberassing when it constantly happens. Doesn't really give the impression of a well-run country. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21944 Posts
On September 22 2023 22:16 Simberto wrote: This happening every few months is entirely on purpose.But can't you at least raise the debt ceiling in a way that doesn't make this happen every few month? Because it looks pretty silly and emberassing when it constantly happens. Doesn't really give the impression of a well-run country. The whole point of (some) the Republicans is that they want this circus so they can portrait how strong they are against government spending and force concessions for whatever dumb thing they want. They could just raise it enough for a whole year, they could scrap it entirely but they don't want to. The Tea Party, because I think that is where most of the 'Freedom Caucus' originates from(?) want temporary measures to keep the government open for a few months at a time so that they have this as a pressure measure every few months. Heck I think the initial compromise the GOP reached within itself was to extend the debt for only a single months (from end of Sept to end of Oct) and if that had passed it would have meant the circus basically never stopped. This entire thing exists by design. And yes its stupid and not how a government should operate that we can say that about almost everything involving US congress. | ||
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micronesia
United States24731 Posts
On September 22 2023 22:10 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: You're still getting paid for working technically. Your check just doesn't arrive until after they approve the budget. Interestingly, this was not assured until 2019 when the law was changed. During the 2019 and earlier shutdowns, I was required to come into work with no guarantee that I would get back-pay once the government reopened. The difference between me and a slave in that particular situation is I still have the option to quit my job at any time. If I didn't quit and congress chose not to authorize back-pay, there would probably be a civil suit among government employees, but that never happened. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21944 Posts
On September 22 2023 22:53 JimmiC wrote: really?One of the few things I agree with Gaetz on I agree you can't blame all the other factors but McCarthy? What miracle was he supposed to perform? It took 15 tries just to agree on the guy for Speaker. No one can bring the varies fractured parts of the GOP together if they are hell bent on causing hell. Because they are not there to govern. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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