Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On June 30 2018 04:04 xDaunt wrote: Let's be perfectly clear on what happened in Venezuela under Chavez. He seized all of the foreign-owned oil assets like a good commie and then promptly ran them all into the ground as commies tend to do. The fact that a country as oil rich as Venezuela failed as badly as it has is about as damning of an indictment as you can make on radical socialist policies such as those implemented by Chavez and Maduro.
And the fact that people still revere Chavez is proof enough for me that are certain peoples that we just don't want coming to the US. Anyone who thinks that what Chavez did is a good idea is not compatible with a modern Western state like the US. Property rights matter when it comes to sustained economic success. The unfortunate reality is that Latin American states have a rather poor track record of understanding this. Like I mentioned earlier, I worry that we may see this continue when Obrador takes over Mexico. So yeah, build that wall.
You do understand that poor people in South America have absolutely no obligation to run their lives according to the American values that would see them live their whole lives with nothing, right?
I really don't care what the people in South America do. It's not my problem. But if they go and fuck up their country as bad as they fucked up Venezuela, I don't want them coming to the US to start over.
On June 30 2018 04:04 xDaunt wrote: Let's be perfectly clear on what happened in Venezuela under Chavez. He seized all of the foreign-owned oil assets like a good commie and then promptly ran them all into the ground as commies tend to do. The fact that a country as oil rich as Venezuela failed as badly as it has is about as damning of an indictment as you can make on radical socialist policies such as those implemented by Chavez and Maduro.
And the fact that people still revere Chavez is proof enough for me that are certain peoples that we just don't want coming to the US. Anyone who thinks that what Chavez did is a good idea is not compatible with a modern Western state like the US. Property rights matter when it comes to sustained economic success. The unfortunate reality is that Latin American states have a rather poor track record of understanding this. Like I mentioned earlier, I worry that we may see this continue when Obrador takes over Mexico. So yeah, build that wall.
You do understand that poor people in South America have absolutely no obligation to run their lives according to the American values that would see them live their whole lives with nothing, right?
I really don't care what the people in South America do. It's not my problem. But if they go and fuck up their country as bad as they fucked up Venezuela, I don't want them coming to the US to start over.
Venezuela was already fucked up. That's what I'm trying to say. The only difference is that in its previous iteration, America's friends in the country weren't suffering, it was only the poor.
On June 30 2018 04:04 xDaunt wrote: Let's be perfectly clear on what happened in Venezuela under Chavez. He seized all of the foreign-owned oil assets like a good commie and then promptly ran them all into the ground as commies tend to do. The fact that a country as oil rich as Venezuela failed as badly as it has is about as damning of an indictment as you can make on radical socialist policies such as those implemented by Chavez and Maduro.
And the fact that people still revere Chavez is proof enough for me that are certain peoples that we just don't want coming to the US. Anyone who thinks that what Chavez did is a good idea is not compatible with a modern Western state like the US. Property rights matter when it comes to sustained economic success. The unfortunate reality is that Latin American states have a rather poor track record of understanding this. Like I mentioned earlier, I worry that we may see this continue when Obrador takes over Mexico. So yeah, build that wall.
You do understand that poor people in South America have absolutely no obligation to run their lives according to the American values that would see them live their whole lives with nothing, right?
I really don't care what the people in South America do. It's not my problem. But if they go and fuck up their country as bad as they fucked up Venezuela, I don't want them coming to the US to start over.
THE US ADMITTED TO TRYING TO ASSASSINATE HIM!?
what the hell do you mean "IF" your country fucked it up? The US TRAINED torturers and death squads IN THE US then sent them to South America.
I honestly don't know if you really are this oblivious to US history or you just have a warped view in which assasinating democratically elected leaders is "helping".
On June 30 2018 04:04 xDaunt wrote: Let's be perfectly clear on what happened in Venezuela under Chavez. He seized all of the foreign-owned oil assets like a good commie and then promptly ran them all into the ground as commies tend to do. The fact that a country as oil rich as Venezuela failed as badly as it has is about as damning of an indictment as you can make on radical socialist policies such as those implemented by Chavez and Maduro.
And the fact that people still revere Chavez is proof enough for me that are certain peoples that we just don't want coming to the US. Anyone who thinks that what Chavez did is a good idea is not compatible with a modern Western state like the US. Property rights matter when it comes to sustained economic success. The unfortunate reality is that Latin American states have a rather poor track record of understanding this. Like I mentioned earlier, I worry that we may see this continue when Obrador takes over Mexico. So yeah, build that wall.
You do understand that poor people in South America have absolutely no obligation to run their lives according to the American values that would see them live their whole lives with nothing, right?
I really don't care what the people in South America do. It's not my problem. But if they go and fuck up their country as bad as they fucked up Venezuela, I don't want them coming to the US to start over.
Venezuela was already fucked up. That's what I'm trying to say. The only difference is that in its previous iteration, America's friends in the country weren't suffering, it was only the poor.
Venezuela, like many of the Latin American countries, has been suffering precisely because it has been run like a banana republic rather than as a proper capitalist society that respects property rights and rule of law. And the bitch of it is that Latin Americans seem to be quite fond of electing the very types of socialist leaders that won't allow those types of capitalist institutions to emerge.
On June 29 2018 22:28 xDaunt wrote: Let’s just presume that we abolish ICE. What next? What do we put in its place, if anything?
Go back to not having it. Immigration isn't a big problem. If anything we have a refugee issue at the border. ICE doesn't really do much for that in the first place. The little it does can be put back under control of the Customs and Border Protection. It a wasteful and redundant organization you should probably be in favor of abolishing anyway.
Of course I would go further, but it would be no big deal at all if they ceased existing tomorrow (other than people lost in their system perhaps).
Refugees are a problem. Illegal immigration is a problem. And if Obrador becomes the next Chavez, we are going to be fucked if we don’t lock down the southern border.
What is the data that shows we have a problem? Everything I've seen is that migration comes in waves throughout US history. The from South America wave looks done - most new immigrants are from Asia now, right?
What, are you not paying to attention to the mess over in Europe? Yeah, the Europeans are clearly having a great time with the massive influx of refugees and migrants arriving at their shores.
Also, Trump is clearly the 'next Chavez'.
I expect better than this from you. Chavez murdered his country and Maduro is putting the final nails in the coffin. Comparing Trump to Chavez is simply retarded.
Didn't Chavez completely turn Venezuala around and make it an incredibly successful country during almost his entire tenure? I mean... that's why he became famous, wasn't it? Because he made socialism work for a bit?
Found this from a basic article about Maduro, discussing his predecessor: "Under his rule, Venezuela’s unemployment rate halved, income per capita more than doubled, the poverty rate fell by more than half, education improved, and infant mortality rates declined"
Doesn't sound like 'murdering his country' to me.
If your argument is going to be about short-sighted, short term economic policy that wasn't sustainable... well... I'm not sure that's the path to take, given that's all the US has done recently.
My boss is from Venezuala, he came because of the violence, corruption and he will never go go back even to visit. I think you can reasonably say leadership there has done a terrible job and the country is in a much worse state then it was before them. They also slowly changed a democracy into a dictatorship.
Anything about Trump is this line is impossible to know because he hasn't been around long enough. The comparison is not a good one.
GH lets go back to my first point. I am talking about the country now, I have been since the start, you putting this Chavez killed the country thing is you not me.
Second my links did not disprove my point, they show how shitty it is there. And there is no way they are ranked 6th when they are not in the top 50. As for all the other "facts" it spouts it does not provide sources.
Now you're doubling down instead of accepting that you're wrong.
On June 30 2018 03:03 GreenHorizons wrote: [quote]
You seem to be talking about Maduro and taking no consideration for the economic or global conditions. So I don't see how we can continue.
You are using quotes from one dictator on the performance of his predecessor to make your argument. Then now you are dismissing the actions of the person who's quote you are trusting. Perhaps it is time to do some basic research on your own.
You :"found this from a basic article about Maduro, discussing his predecessor: "Under his rule, Venezuela’s unemployment rate halved, income per capita more than doubled, the poverty rate fell by more than half, education improved, and infant mortality rates declined" "
Yes while oil was super high there was some trickle down to the poor. There is no way of saying that wouldn't be true with a different form of government. What is clear is that without that cash cow it is failing miserably and the poor are the ones suffering not the rich. Way to be socialists!
If it's true that the poor are suffering and not the rich, and that the rich aren't rich people who with the support of the US prevented the nationalization/appropriation to the people of their resources and instead are allies of the Maduro, and the current economic decisions are the fault of a dead man then it's not socialism that's the culprit.
The argument people are making isn't even against socialism (as an economic system), it's the belief that it's impossible to have better checks and balances on corrupt humans in a socialist system than a capitalist one. I think Trump's fucking that illusion up for everyone.
I'm not against socialism, I'm against totalitarian dictators. I'm also against shitty ran countries who make it worse for their citizens.
I'm in the middle of watching your video and it is the same bullshit you would see from a far right person saying that putin is doing great for Russia.
I mean at 12:45 he talks about the human develpment Index and how well Maduro is doing. This is not even true. I'm not sure I'll have time to fact check this whole video but I hope you are not watching this thinking it is true.
I'm not sure you're listening close enough (could be partly my fault if you're not used to listening at 2x speed), but those don't refute the claims in the video. I mean they don't present the information in an easily accessible way for the purposes of fact checking the specific statements, but they don't conflict, they confirm.
It is very funny to me that you spend so much time talking about the "right and there propaganda" and blah blah.
And you can't see that this video is clearly blatant left wing propaganda. Please find some actual people from Venezuela and talk to them about Maduro then come back on here and let me know what you think. Please talk to them outside of the country so they don't have to worry about their personal safety.
Yes the Right wing dictator there was horrible. Guess what so is the left wing one. In the end they all only care about themselves their power and influence they just package it different.
Even better, please immigrate there, live for a year or two and tell me how wonderful it is!
Did you go back and realize that the parts you thought were wrong were actually true? Is that why we've shifted back to anecdotal stories from expats?
Nope I realized you were so deluded that any fact that I show you, you would say is untrue or from the "right wing" media. So I thought if you left your home and talked to a bunch of people who have real life experience living their it might open your mind to the FACT that it is not a right wing conspiracy to say that Maduro is a bad person ruining the country, that is actually what is happening.
I don't know much at all about the current situation so for the sake of argument I'm going to assume that you're right. Can I ask at what point Venezuela was anything but ruined?
This is a fairly good point the poor country has been through a lot of shittyness. The leader before Chavez was worse then him. And the USA has a bad history of supporting really bad people as long as it doesn't hurt them economically. That doesn't mean that all Leftists are therefore good. When Chavez first took over I think he was legitimately trying to do the best for the country, and with the help of high oil prices and taking over companies we was able to improve things short term. And he died before things got super messy, but Maduro is following his model and trying to keep up his policies.
More on how it is going now.
"Venezuelans are suffering privation previously unheard of in what was once South America’s richest country. According to a study by three universities, 82% of households now live in poverty. That compares with 48% in 1998, when Chávez came to power. The rise in poverty follows Venezuela’s biggest-ever oil windfall. Of the $1trn the regime received in oil revenue, perhaps a quarter was stolen by insiders, according to the International Crisis Group, a think-tank. Infant mortality is rising, and Venezuelans are needlessly dying because of the shortage of medicines. Those who can, leave; perhaps 2m Venezuelans now live abroad.
To remain in power, Mr Maduro’s state-socialist regime is extinguishing democracy. The opposition won a big majority in a legislative election in 2015. Since then, the government has used its hand-picked supreme court to nullify parliament. The similarly tame electoral authority blocked the opposition’s drive for a recall referendum. It failed to call an election for mayors and regional governors, due last year. The authority is now requiring the re-registration of opposition parties, a process whose rules are so impractical that it appears designed to abolish many of them."
I can certainly see how things have gone wrong. I'm very skeptical about reports of Venezuela mostly because of historical propaganda campaigns that the US have launched against South American countries. I should do the research because I'm sure the internet has helped and I haven't really looked into it..
I've only seen leftwing videos about Chavez, so I have a one sided view (although leftwing is my preferable viewpoint).
I've seen interviews with people in the Barios talking about how their lives improved under Chavez. Middle aged poor people going to school or seeing a doctor for the first time in their lives.
I think the problem you tend to find with socialist states in countries with less developed political safeguards is that they tend to become corrupt. If what you are saying about Maduro is true, then this is clearly the biggest problem, rather than being an inherent problem with socialism, its a problem of poor constitutional safeguards and constant political strife, which allows corrupt people to get into positions of power.
On June 30 2018 04:04 xDaunt wrote: Let's be perfectly clear on what happened in Venezuela under Chavez. He seized all of the foreign-owned oil assets like a good commie and then promptly ran them all into the ground as commies tend to do. The fact that a country as oil rich as Venezuela failed as badly as it has is about as damning of an indictment as you can make on radical socialist policies such as those implemented by Chavez and Maduro.
And the fact that people still revere Chavez is proof enough for me that are certain peoples that we just don't want coming to the US. Anyone who thinks that what Chavez did is a good idea is not compatible with a modern Western state like the US. Property rights matter when it comes to sustained economic success. The unfortunate reality is that Latin American states have a rather poor track record of understanding this. Like I mentioned earlier, I worry that we may see this continue when Obrador takes over Mexico. So yeah, build that wall.
You do understand that poor people in South America have absolutely no obligation to run their lives according to the American values that would see them live their whole lives with nothing, right?
I really don't care what the people in South America do. It's not my problem. But if they go and fuck up their country as bad as they fucked up Venezuela, I don't want them coming to the US to start over.
Venezuela was already fucked up. That's what I'm trying to say. The only difference is that in its previous iteration, America's friends in the country weren't suffering, it was only the poor.
Venezuela, like many of the Latin American countries, has been suffering precisely because it has been run like a banana republic rather than as a proper capitalist society that respects property rights and rule of law. And the bitch of it is that Latin Americans seem to be quite fond of electing the very types of socialist leaders that won't allow those types of capitalist institutions to emerge.
I disagree. Capitalism has a home, and all its proceeds find their way to that home eventually, it sucks countries dry.
I'm not saying that socialism is better, and yes when countries are run badly it is worse than capitalism. See my point above.
On June 30 2018 04:04 xDaunt wrote: Let's be perfectly clear on what happened in Venezuela under Chavez. He seized all of the foreign-owned oil assets like a good commie and then promptly ran them all into the ground as commies tend to do. The fact that a country as oil rich as Venezuela failed as badly as it has is about as damning of an indictment as you can make on radical socialist policies such as those implemented by Chavez and Maduro.
And the fact that people still revere Chavez is proof enough for me that are certain peoples that we just don't want coming to the US. Anyone who thinks that what Chavez did is a good idea is not compatible with a modern Western state like the US. Property rights matter when it comes to sustained economic success. The unfortunate reality is that Latin American states have a rather poor track record of understanding this. Like I mentioned earlier, I worry that we may see this continue when Obrador takes over Mexico. So yeah, build that wall.
You do understand that poor people in South America have absolutely no obligation to run their lives according to the American values that would see them live their whole lives with nothing, right?
I really don't care what the people in South America do. It's not my problem. But if they go and fuck up their country as bad as they fucked up Venezuela, I don't want them coming to the US to start over.
Considering how little say the average individual has in the direction of a nation, this is a strange view to hold. The folks seeking asylum status in the US often have relatives in the US that they are fleeing too. Or they are fleeing to community groups that are willing to support refugees. There are not a lot of stats out there, but most asylum seekers are trying to get to some place in the US that is willing to help them.
On June 30 2018 04:04 xDaunt wrote: Let's be perfectly clear on what happened in Venezuela under Chavez. He seized all of the foreign-owned oil assets like a good commie and then promptly ran them all into the ground as commies tend to do. The fact that a country as oil rich as Venezuela failed as badly as it has is about as damning of an indictment as you can make on radical socialist policies such as those implemented by Chavez and Maduro.
And the fact that people still revere Chavez is proof enough for me that are certain peoples that we just don't want coming to the US. Anyone who thinks that what Chavez did is a good idea is not compatible with a modern Western state like the US. Property rights matter when it comes to sustained economic success. The unfortunate reality is that Latin American states have a rather poor track record of understanding this. Like I mentioned earlier, I worry that we may see this continue when Obrador takes over Mexico. So yeah, build that wall.
You do understand that poor people in South America have absolutely no obligation to run their lives according to the American values that would see them live their whole lives with nothing, right?
I really don't care what the people in South America do. It's not my problem. But if they go and fuck up their country as bad as they fucked up Venezuela, I don't want them coming to the US to start over.
THE US ADMITTED TO TRYING TO ASSASSINATE HIM!?
what the hell do you mean "IF" your country fucked it up? The US TRAINED torturers and death squads IN THE US then sent them to South America.
I honestly don't know if you really are this oblivious to US history or you just have a warped view in which assasinating democratically elected leaders is "helping".
I'm well aware of US intervention down there, and I'm not condoning it. But let's get real about precisely what the US was doing. It was trying to prevent people like Chavez and Maduro from taking power in Latin America. And if you look at what has happened to Venezuela under their rule -- namely the impoverishing of the country and the resulting refugee crisis in which millions of Venezuelans are fleeing the country -- it begs the question of whether Venezuela would be better off had Chavez been removed during the Bush administration.
On June 30 2018 04:18 Jockmcplop wrote: I disagree. Capitalism has a home, and all its proceeds find their way to that home eventually, it sucks countries dry.
I'm not saying that socialism is better, and yes when countries are run badly it is worse than capitalism. See my point above.
No country succeeds economically without having minimal capitalist institutions in place -- namely the protection of property rights and the rule of law.
On June 30 2018 04:04 xDaunt wrote: Let's be perfectly clear on what happened in Venezuela under Chavez. He seized all of the foreign-owned oil assets like a good commie and then promptly ran them all into the ground as commies tend to do. The fact that a country as oil rich as Venezuela failed as badly as it has is about as damning of an indictment as you can make on radical socialist policies such as those implemented by Chavez and Maduro.
And the fact that people still revere Chavez is proof enough for me that are certain peoples that we just don't want coming to the US. Anyone who thinks that what Chavez did is a good idea is not compatible with a modern Western state like the US. Property rights matter when it comes to sustained economic success. The unfortunate reality is that Latin American states have a rather poor track record of understanding this. Like I mentioned earlier, I worry that we may see this continue when Obrador takes over Mexico. So yeah, build that wall.
You do understand that poor people in South America have absolutely no obligation to run their lives according to the American values that would see them live their whole lives with nothing, right?
I really don't care what the people in South America do. It's not my problem. But if they go and fuck up their country as bad as they fucked up Venezuela, I don't want them coming to the US to start over.
Considering how little say the average individual has in the direction of a nation, this is a strange view to hold. The folks seeking asylum status in the US often have relatives in the US that they are fleeing too. Or they are fleeing to community groups that are willing to support refugees. There are not a lot of stats out there, but most asylum seekers are trying to get to some place in the US that is willing to help them.
Importing millions of people into the US with ass backwards views of modern society creates voting blocks that are incompatible with the larger American society. That's a problem.
On June 30 2018 04:04 xDaunt wrote: Let's be perfectly clear on what happened in Venezuela under Chavez. He seized all of the foreign-owned oil assets like a good commie and then promptly ran them all into the ground as commies tend to do. The fact that a country as oil rich as Venezuela failed as badly as it has is about as damning of an indictment as you can make on radical socialist policies such as those implemented by Chavez and Maduro.
And the fact that people still revere Chavez is proof enough for me that are certain peoples that we just don't want coming to the US. Anyone who thinks that what Chavez did is a good idea is not compatible with a modern Western state like the US. Property rights matter when it comes to sustained economic success. The unfortunate reality is that Latin American states have a rather poor track record of understanding this. Like I mentioned earlier, I worry that we may see this continue when Obrador takes over Mexico. So yeah, build that wall.
You do understand that poor people in South America have absolutely no obligation to run their lives according to the American values that would see them live their whole lives with nothing, right?
I really don't care what the people in South America do. It's not my problem. But if they go and fuck up their country as bad as they fucked up Venezuela, I don't want them coming to the US to start over.
THE US ADMITTED TO TRYING TO ASSASSINATE HIM!?
what the hell do you mean "IF" your country fucked it up? The US TRAINED torturers and death squads IN THE US then sent them to South America.
I honestly don't know if you really are this oblivious to US history or you just have a warped view in which assasinating democratically elected leaders is "helping".
I'm well aware of US intervention down there, and I'm not condoning it. But let's get real about precisely what the US was doing. It was trying to prevent people like Chavez and Maduro from taking power in Latin America. And if you look at what has happened to Venezuela under their rule -- namely the impoverishing of the country and the resulting refugee crisis in which millions of Venezuelans are fleeing the country -- it begs the question of whether Venezuela would be better off had Chavez been removed during the Bush administration.
You mean stop the US from exploiting their natural resources and people? I'm sure US oil companies would be a lot better off. The people they paid off, and at least some of the military that would be used to keep the people in abject poverty so that US companies could continue to own their land and exploit their nation would probably do okay.
But no the people that Chavez social programs help, the ones continuing instead of austerity so the wealthiest could keep even more than corruption allows after the oil prices, no. They would not be better off.
On June 30 2018 04:04 xDaunt wrote: Let's be perfectly clear on what happened in Venezuela under Chavez. He seized all of the foreign-owned oil assets like a good commie and then promptly ran them all into the ground as commies tend to do. The fact that a country as oil rich as Venezuela failed as badly as it has is about as damning of an indictment as you can make on radical socialist policies such as those implemented by Chavez and Maduro.
And the fact that people still revere Chavez is proof enough for me that are certain peoples that we just don't want coming to the US. Anyone who thinks that what Chavez did is a good idea is not compatible with a modern Western state like the US. Property rights matter when it comes to sustained economic success. The unfortunate reality is that Latin American states have a rather poor track record of understanding this. Like I mentioned earlier, I worry that we may see this continue when Obrador takes over Mexico. So yeah, build that wall.
You do understand that poor people in South America have absolutely no obligation to run their lives according to the American values that would see them live their whole lives with nothing, right?
I really don't care what the people in South America do. It's not my problem. But if they go and fuck up their country as bad as they fucked up Venezuela, I don't want them coming to the US to start over.
THE US ADMITTED TO TRYING TO ASSASSINATE HIM!?
what the hell do you mean "IF" your country fucked it up? The US TRAINED torturers and death squads IN THE US then sent them to South America.
I honestly don't know if you really are this oblivious to US history or you just have a warped view in which assasinating democratically elected leaders is "helping".
I'm well aware of US intervention down there, and I'm not condoning it. But let's get real about precisely what the US was doing. It was trying to prevent people like Chavez and Maduro from taking power in Latin America. And if you look at what has happened to Venezuela under their rule -- namely the impoverishing of the country and the resulting refugee crisis in which millions of Venezuelans are fleeing the country -- it begs the question of whether Venezuela would be better off had Chavez been removed during the Bush administration.
You mean stop the US from exploiting their natural resources and people? I'm sure US oil companies would be a lot better off. The people they paid off, and at least some of the military that would be used to keep the people in abject poverty so that US companies could continue to own their land and exploit their nation would probably do okay.
But no the people that Chavez social programs help, the ones continuing instead of austerity so the wealthiest could keep even more than corruption allows after the oil prices, no. They would not be better off.
Oh please. Hold the Venezuelan people accountable for their own fuckups for once. They own all of the oil assets. What Chavez could have done was partner with US companies for further natural resource development on equitable terms that benefit the people (like most every other petroleum state does) rather than just seize everything and run the oil industry into the ground.
I think the issue facing Venezuela right now is a very complex one, and I think that trying to suggest that the population which lives there now is directly responsible for things being the way they are, and that they chose for the country they're living in to be this way, is disingenuous to say the least. What's more, then saying that they deserve to rot in destitution for the rest of their life as a result is just aggressive, bordering on hateful. Nah fuck it, it's outright hateful.
On June 30 2018 04:04 xDaunt wrote: Let's be perfectly clear on what happened in Venezuela under Chavez. He seized all of the foreign-owned oil assets like a good commie and then promptly ran them all into the ground as commies tend to do. The fact that a country as oil rich as Venezuela failed as badly as it has is about as damning of an indictment as you can make on radical socialist policies such as those implemented by Chavez and Maduro.
And the fact that people still revere Chavez is proof enough for me that are certain peoples that we just don't want coming to the US. Anyone who thinks that what Chavez did is a good idea is not compatible with a modern Western state like the US. Property rights matter when it comes to sustained economic success. The unfortunate reality is that Latin American states have a rather poor track record of understanding this. Like I mentioned earlier, I worry that we may see this continue when Obrador takes over Mexico. So yeah, build that wall.
You do understand that poor people in South America have absolutely no obligation to run their lives according to the American values that would see them live their whole lives with nothing, right?
I really don't care what the people in South America do. It's not my problem. But if they go and fuck up their country as bad as they fucked up Venezuela, I don't want them coming to the US to start over.
Considering how little say the average individual has in the direction of a nation, this is a strange view to hold. The folks seeking asylum status in the US often have relatives in the US that they are fleeing too. Or they are fleeing to community groups that are willing to support refugees. There are not a lot of stats out there, but most asylum seekers are trying to get to some place in the US that is willing to help them.
Importing millions of people into the US with ass backwards views of modern society creates voting blocks that are incompatible with the larger American society. That's a problem.
We accept a fixed number of asylum seekers a year, which is less than 100,000 people yearly. It would take over 10 years to increase the population by a million. And that is spread across our 326 million people that live in the US. 235 of those are registered voters.
I think your fears might be a bit overblown given the realities of the situation. Especially given how long it takes to get naturalized.
EPT
