EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3652
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On May 27 2022 14:56 plasmidghost wrote: It's already begun. This was going to happen and it doesn't make it any scarier. https://twitter.com/Esqueer_/status/1529900378929606657 Jesus Christ... I wish the fucks maliciously broadcasting misinformation could be held responsible. The GOP serves to divide this country and make those they despise feel unsafe and subhuman. Pieces of fucking trash. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7240 Posts
On May 27 2022 13:55 JimmiC wrote: But are there not humans working in HR? And do none of them care? Your outlook is so very black and white. The people who actually run HR don't care, the executives and upper management class, Id argue the vast majority of them don't care. And they're the ones who actually make HR's real decisions and policies. Insurance companies don't give two shits about you, they'd never pay out a single claim no matter how valid and often will fight you and try and trick you about the validity of your claims, thats not because the people youre talking to over the phone in the claims department are evil and hateful, its because the company, the upper management people, the people who actually dictate the company's policy, are concerned with precisely one thing, money. HR is no different. HR is not your friend, don't assume good intentions out of HR because HR as an institution doesn't have good intentions towards anybody but the company. If they think they can get away with screwing an employee to help the company they will, thats the nature of capitalism. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10665 Posts
On May 27 2022 17:09 Zambrah wrote: The people who actually run HR don't care, the executives and upper management class, Id argue the vast majority of them don't care. And they're the ones who actually make HR's real decisions and policies. Insurance companies don't give two shits about you, they'd never pay out a single claim no matter how valid and often will fight you and try and trick you about the validity of your claims, thats not because the people youre talking to over the phone in the claims department are evil and hateful, its because the company, the upper management people, the people who actually dictate the company's policy, are concerned with precisely one thing, money. HR is no different. HR is not your friend, don't assume good intentions out of HR because HR as an institution doesn't have good intentions towards anybody but the company. If they think they can get away with screwing an employee to help the company they will, thats the nature of capitalism. That is just a very bleak and one dimensional perspective. From my experience HR is as good as the higher ups in the company want it to be (or are themselves). I have worked in companies that try everything but fire employees despite all their collegues and their direct superiors wanting their "collegue" gone asap. Others act like total psychopaths that fire people for barely any reason on a whim, despite allready being low on qualified employees (these normaly have no or very weak HR that is basically only there to pay out the salaries on time). The bad ones seem less common from my experience but i have never worked in a true low skill sector/company where you can train someone in a matter of days or a few weeks. The last company i worked and actually had to train (and pick) new employees we were estimating about 6-9 months until someone was truely familiar with the basics and well over a year until he was truely reliable and didn't need much help to do his job anymore. Some were faster, some never managed it and i had to "fire" several new employees in the first 2-3 months because they just weren't picking up the required stuff fast enough and the chances that they would suddenly become able to learn all the necessary stuff were slim to none. I worked there for over 10 years and did all these jobs myself before, we did not expect inhuman skills at all. One thing i learned is that people that are not helping a team are hurting it and need to go asap, else the actually good employees will leave and your left with the "rest". I'm actually now working at a company with a horrible culture kinda tasked with "fixing" it because the brain drain is slowly killing it. It's not easy, some of the team leaders and higher ups just don't understand when they accidentally insult/diminish/exploit their employees and have absolutely no clue or care about employee protection laws. Well... Work in progress but at least its interesting. I actually managed to get the CEO fired because she clearly was a giant problem. HR in this firm was only existing to do the salaries and that was about it. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7240 Posts
From my experience HR is as good as the higher ups in the company want it to be (or are themselves). I have worked in companies that try everything but fire employees despite all their collegues and their direct superiors wanting their "collegue" gone asap. Others act like total psychopaths that fire people for barely any reason on a whim, despite allready being low on qualified employees (these normaly have no or very weak HR that is basically only there to pay out the salaries on time). These are both bad HR, the first one is basically Activision-Blizzard and I think we can both agree their HR was grossly awful. The second one is a typical American business, which is also a grossly awful thing to be. At the end of the day, as you say, HR is as good as the higher ups, and higher ups are such shit at such a high rate that noone should extend the assumption of good will towards them. Companies view you as tools to increase their profit, nothing more, you should never look at an employer as anything other than something you use to your own benefit. Companies will abuse your good faith and exploit you. Even if it doesn't happen in literally every interaction it happens enough to warrant a defensive mindset. I'm actually now working at a company with a horrible culture kinda tasked with "fixing" it because the brain drain is slowly killing it. You see how this serves my point though? Your company wasn't willing to treat people better until it started to literally cause the death of their business, companies in their entirety don't care about people until it effects the bottom line. People should really, really, really stop putting any faith into their institutions to help them. If you have a serious grievance at work you should always consult a lawyer, never presume that HR is going to operate in good faith because HR is not something founded in good faith, it's founded in protecting a business and the second you're looking like you might harm the business HR isn't going to try to do right by you, they're going to do right by the business' bottom line. Just like I dont attribute the failures of the US government to the US populace, I dont attribute the nature of US business to it's rank and file employees. The people who have the power make the policy, make the decisions, and make the money. HR is run by these people and should not have anyone's inherent trust. People need to be significantly more adversarial in protecting themselves from entities whose only incentive is profit. Yes, its unfortunate but thats capitalism, that the working class has let themselves be duped into thinking companies give two shits about them is a tragedy thats helped enable the worst excesses of capitalism. If you want a hopeful note, the increase of unionization will go a long ways towards this, and for anyone who might have as union in the future, whenever you talk to a manager about anything that might be serious, request a union rep. Treat it like they're the cops and your union rep is an attorney. Dont talk to management without your union rep. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10665 Posts
The bottom line is not allways the immediate concern, more often it's just plain incompetent leaders. The issues the brain drain creates aren't on the profit side, they hurt on the quality side and it would probably take several more years until it would actually hurt the feasability of the company. "Employee-turnover" is a number most companies are very much interested in. If it's high, you will run into very serious problems in the mid to long term. I also only ever have heard "companies don't value experience" from former employees that were fired for obvious reasons. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7240 Posts
I work at a non-profit senior home that has these glaring issues. The fromer company was a health insurance company which, according to you, is basically satan that had absolutely none of these problems. Do you work in the United States The bottom line is not allways the immediate concern, more often it's just plain incompetent leaders. The issues the brain drain creates aren't on the profit side, they hurt on the quality side and it would probably take several more years until it would actually hurt the feasability of the company. So brain drain does have an effect on the profits. No company would employ anyone if they could just not and save themselves the payroll. People are hired and retained based on perceived value (aka profit) brought to the company. Quality is a metric that is only given two shits about because quality can be considered additional value that can drive profits. If a company could sell literal garbage to people and make more money than a quality product they would (and often do!) These things are all only cared about by the company because of their relationship to a potential increase in profit. "Employee-turnover" is a number most companies are very much interested in. If it's high, you will run into very serious problems in the mid to long term. I also only ever have heard "companies don't value experience" from former employees that were fired for very good and obvious reasons. Companies care about turnover because they rely on employees to create value which they extract and derive their profits from. A company with no employees to do whatever work they do is not creating profit which obviously doesn't serve their primary motive, profit. I'm sorry, but at the heart of it businesses are about money, capitalism is about money, the more capitalism you have the more intensely about money it all is, capitalism would be 100% fine with slave labor under armed guard if it generated the most profit for the slave owner, the only reason we don't have children losing arms and fingers in factories is because people around the early 20th century (in the US anyways, which is my frame of reference for labor law) learned that being adversarial and demanding that they have rights was the only way they were going to get decent treatment from companies. Companies did not bestow rights upon their workers by their own kindness and generosity, they fought and killed and maimed countless people to prevent those rights from happening and bitched and moaned about things like emancipating the slaves and no child labor as being the death knell of the economy. Companies are not your friend, they would, at large, fuck over any and everyone to squeeze out another ounce of profit and treating them like they are in some way shape or form moral is how you let them extort and abuse those under them. Just like the police, just like Republicans, just like every other major institution of power, they are not your friends, they view you as an adversary to be used to their advantage, just because some people at the lowest rungs of these institutions are good and well meaning does not mean that these institutions are not, at large, entirely indifferent to whats best for you. | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
It's not cynicism. It's not a "narrow" or "black and white" view of the world. It's exactly how things have been (and still are) when there aren't thousands of legal mechanisms and incentive structures in place to prevent excessive exploitation. It's easy to have a nobler view of a wolf when it's chained to a post and knows it needs to impress you to get food. Doesn't mean it wouldn't eat you in a heartbeat if that was what was both possible and beneficial to it. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24796 Posts
On May 27 2022 11:05 JimmiC wrote: Hershal Walker must have missed that his party wants more freedom online, certainly not consequences. But then again who really knows what he is saying herr, he certainly does not. https://ca.yahoo.com/news/gop-senate-candidate-herschel-walker-154936026.html That was breathtakingly bad, he couldn’t even knock out the usual talking points coherently. I see we get the usual ‘why aren’t we talking about mental health?’ angle. Ok, people do talk about this, all the time and not just in relation to school shootings. If your party claim it’s mental health and not guns that is the problem, can you fund improved mental health services then? I don’t even think it is a mental health problem, indeed people with mental health problems tend to be net recipients of violence. Plenty of these shooters aren’t diagnostically mentally ill, they’re quite sane and rational, indicative of a sick culture rather than a sick individual. I’m not sure if it’s copium, deflection or just old fashioned being wrong. That it’s sensible for people to have some of these weapons, and the only time it goes wrong is if an insane person who mental health services misses goes on a rampage. I mean what happens from there? Probably not much, but say does a person who’s had a few bouts of depression in their life not get a gun to defend themselves? | ||
KwarK
United States42421 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7240 Posts
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
On May 28 2022 00:08 Zambrah wrote: If theres one thing US government needs its more people with issues with cognition, definitely need more Dianne Feinsteins and the like to govern us. Remembering what I've read about Strom Thurmond's last years in politics and I can't agree more | ||
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Zambrah
United States7240 Posts
On May 28 2022 00:21 plasmidghost wrote: Remembering what I've read about Strom Thurmond's last years in politics and I can't agree more Strom Thurmond, now theres a vicious awful scumbag. It never ceases to amaze me how little time has actually passed since things like civil rights. Strom Thurmond was anti civil rights, he was also Joe Biden's friend, Joe Biden was alive during Civil Rights, I mean damn Joe Biden was born before WW2 ended. These people are ancient and were alive at times where it was very normal to be uber racist by today's standard and we let them be in charge of government. So much yikes. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7240 Posts
The generation they raised is also definitely full of lunatics, they basically passed on their beliefs but the younger generation realized they no longer needed to pretend to have values, so they just stopped pretending. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7240 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24796 Posts
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
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