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On March 18 2022 05:39 lestye wrote:
Unfortunately MTG has done so much outrageous shit. Shes kinda like Trump where its so dense where people cant bother to care, and Republicans don't want to hold her accountable because that makes them a woke mob.
It's not that they don't care, it's that they like having representatives who are willing to call anyone who doesn't kiss the ring a fat keyboard warrior. It's what they feel deep inside anytime someone insults their intelligence by actually having it.
Yes, it's appalling. But all the right people are jeering her stupid ass on.
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On March 18 2022 09:32 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2022 05:39 lestye wrote:
Unfortunately MTG has done so much outrageous shit. Shes kinda like Trump where its so dense where people cant bother to care, and Republicans don't want to hold her accountable because that makes them a woke mob. It's not that they don't care, it's that they like having representatives who are willing to call anyone who doesn't kiss the ring a fat keyboard warrior. It's what they feel deep inside anytime someone insults their intelligence by actually having it. Yes, it's appalling. But all the right people are jeering her stupid ass on.
That's how democracy works unfortunately, if enough idiots vote for an idiot, the idiot gets in and does idiotic things and no one can really do anything about it because their voter base is idiots!
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On March 18 2022 03:52 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2022 02:52 Doc.Rivers wrote:On March 17 2022 21:39 EnDeR_ wrote:On March 17 2022 21:26 JimmiC wrote:On March 17 2022 15:14 gobbledydook wrote:On March 17 2022 13:57 WombaT wrote:On March 17 2022 11:37 Doc.Rivers wrote:On March 17 2022 10:32 JimmiC wrote:On March 17 2022 10:23 Doc.Rivers wrote:On March 17 2022 07:30 NewSunshine wrote:
[quote]
It's absolutely relevant if you're trying to use it as whataboutism for the Tucker-Russia stuff. You're trying to take the criticism of Tucker the Perpetually Perplexed 'Premacist of the Pasty 'Plexion and paint it as unfounded, on the basis that the criticism of Trump's idiotic trade war was just partisan hysteria. You couldn't be further off the mark.
Or as you like to say, just a partisan exaggeration. Regardless of whether I agree with trumps trade war, it's still true that the things said by liberal pundits aligned with the interests of China. So it's not relevant at all. Like most partisan digs on tucker/Republicans, the exact same argument can be turned around on liberal pundits & democrats. No they can not, which is why you keep stating it without any sourcing. This is not the alternative facts thread, put up or shut up. Show us the Chinese governmemt airing liberal pundits, or memos saying to air more, preferably with subtitles unedited, just like Tucker. I don't think it is very important to show that Chinese state media actually aired liberal pundits, because Tucker should not be faulted for what Russian media chooses to do. The point is that the commentary of US pundits sometimes align with the interests of foreign countries, making those pundits "useful idiots" for the foreign countries. For example you are not refuting that liberal pundits' commentary on the trade war aligned with the interests of China. They were useful idiots for China. It may be relevant though to note WaPo's acceptance of Chinese state media advertising dollars. Sounds like WaPo is a useful idiot of an organization if it is actually disseminating Chinese propaganda. Recently the Washington Post has started carrying China Daily's US edition as a physically separate advertising supplement to the printed paper, as described here. Fine: it's clearly labeled, and we've all gotta stay in business. But now the Post is doing the same thing on its website. Look at this part of the "Washington Post"'s site as it appears just now, and tell me how obvious it is that you're seeing a paid presentation of official Chinese government propaganda perspective. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/02/official-chinese-propaganda-now-online-from-the-wapo/70690/ That’s from 2011, is it still the case? Anyway that aside, Tucker Carlson isn’t engaging in nuanced, informative or indeed at times remotely true analyses of foreign policy that has crossover that happens to have some occasional intersection with broad Russian goals. The crossover is with Russian propaganda and their talking points in that domain The left media equivalent over China would be something more akin to a pundit saying shut up about the Uighurs it’s a myth propagated by Western imperialists. Which hey, I don’t recall running into. Note the rather specific charge of Tucker Carlson doing this. One dude, not conservatives as a wider collective. I’ve read many cogent analyses from across the spectrum on foreign policy as it pertains to Russia, with differing conclusions that don’t neatly break down into straight left/right divisions of opinion. I don’t get why the natural retort is always some form of whataboutery rather than just ‘Hm, maybe this guy’s judgement, ethics, or both are bloody awful’. Counterargument: When Trump first raised the idea that maybe the virus came from a lab in China, he was ridiculed. The idea was dismissed as another of Trump's irrational thoughts and an attempt to blame China for his own faults. No respectable media organisation went and did any investigation on the lab leak theory. After Biden was elected, Biden and his advisers were now saying there was a possibility that the virus did leak from a lab in China. The point was still the same. The evidence was just the same as before. Suddenly the left-leaning media were reporting on it, when a year ago they had dismissed it out of hand, just because Trump said it, not Biden. All during this time, China claimed that the virus lab leak idea was a fabricated, baseless attack. That completely matched with the left-leaning / Democrat opinion that the lab leak idea was a fabricated, baseless attack. Can we then say that the media were useful idiots for the Chinese Communist Party? The Liberal media was reporting what the doctors were saying. Whether you agree with their choices and reasons is separate from this discussion as it was not their opinion. Also the last two big studies on the animal are coming back as way more likely from animal. https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-lab-leak-theory-undermined-new-research-points-wet-market-1683005https://fortune.com/2022/02/28/covid-wuhan-trump-lab-leak-study-market-animal-human-transmission/https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-lab-leak-hypothesis-made-it-harder-for-scientists-to-seek-the-truth/https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2022/03/14/covid-19-may-not-have-leaked-from-a-lab-its-still-a-problem-for-china/?sh=767eb54702c6The first paper, by George Gao et al., is a summary of extensive virus testing at the Huanan Seafood Market, on samples collected in early 2020. They found SARS-CoV-2 in 73 environmental samples (collected from locations in the market but not in people or animals), and yet “no virus was detected in the animal swabs covering 18 species of animals in the market.” In other words, the virus was found at the marketplace, but not in any of the animals, suggesting that infected people walking through the market were the source of those positive samples. Where did those people get the virus? This paper doesn’t answer that question.
The paper by Michael Worobey et al. shows more, however: not only do they show that all of the early cases were clustered in or very near the Huanan Seafood Market, but also that “positive environmental samples were strongly associated with vendors selling live animals.” In other words, even though we haven’t found the original animal source of the virus, the locations are all centered on live animal vendors. They conclude that the Huanan market was “the unambiguous epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic.”
The third paper, by Jonathan Pekar et al., reports that there were actually two distinct events where the original SARS-CoV-2 virus jumped from animals to humans, both at the very beginning of the pandemic, probably in late November 2019. These authors also point the finger at the Huanan Seafood Market, and they implicate another animal, raccoon dogs, as a likely source. Raccoon dogs are closely related to foxes (not raccoons, despite the name), and were being sold as food in the Huanan market. Scientists have known since at least 2003 that raccoon dogs can carry SARS coronaviruses. This paper illustrates yet again why live-animal markets represent a threat to human health. I would add that dismissing what sounded like another one of Trump's conspiracy theories out of hand is justifiable, considering at the time he uttered those comments, the only known facts were that covid started in/near Wuhan and that there was a lab doing research on viruses in Wuhan. The only known facts were precisely what made what Trump was saying possible. At a basic common sense level, it was possible. Meaning, it was not justified to dismiss it out of hand. It was just knee jerk partisanship. Yes ban travel from China for a virus so serious that wearing a mask is too much of an imposition. It’s entirely justifiable to dismiss Trump out of hand. The anti-China guy proposing anti-China measures on an issue he subsequently largely botched in many areas? Partisanship in and of itself doesn’t exist, it’s framed by the partisans themselves. Continually moaning about partisanship in a group that actually weren’t even 100% against a China travel ban, or wider coordinated international response is silly. This general framing is silly. As someone who, subject to 100% disproval thought the lab leak theory and international travel bans were reasonable positions to hold. Which I don’t think I’m remotely alone in. It’s breathtakingly hubristic to complain about partisanship while every time you engage all your energy is put into defending your guy, or trying to catch others being supposedly hypocritical. To my knowledge you’ve never once said ‘yeah I outright disagree and disavow with what that member of my political clan did’, in a group that routinely does so and want to complain about partisanship? It’s preposterous.
I usually concede points about whatever person I am defending (for example, "Trump's political career should be over") while defending that person from the more extreme political attacks. In this example, even though trump did often tell lies, he said something that was demonstrably plausible, and people reflexively said he's lying even though the plausibility was right in front of their nose.
On March 18 2022 08:43 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2022 02:52 Doc.Rivers wrote:On March 17 2022 21:39 EnDeR_ wrote:On March 17 2022 21:26 JimmiC wrote:On March 17 2022 15:14 gobbledydook wrote:On March 17 2022 13:57 WombaT wrote:On March 17 2022 11:37 Doc.Rivers wrote:On March 17 2022 10:32 JimmiC wrote:On March 17 2022 10:23 Doc.Rivers wrote:On March 17 2022 07:30 NewSunshine wrote:
[quote]
It's absolutely relevant if you're trying to use it as whataboutism for the Tucker-Russia stuff. You're trying to take the criticism of Tucker the Perpetually Perplexed 'Premacist of the Pasty 'Plexion and paint it as unfounded, on the basis that the criticism of Trump's idiotic trade war was just partisan hysteria. You couldn't be further off the mark.
Or as you like to say, just a partisan exaggeration. Regardless of whether I agree with trumps trade war, it's still true that the things said by liberal pundits aligned with the interests of China. So it's not relevant at all. Like most partisan digs on tucker/Republicans, the exact same argument can be turned around on liberal pundits & democrats. No they can not, which is why you keep stating it without any sourcing. This is not the alternative facts thread, put up or shut up. Show us the Chinese governmemt airing liberal pundits, or memos saying to air more, preferably with subtitles unedited, just like Tucker. I don't think it is very important to show that Chinese state media actually aired liberal pundits, because Tucker should not be faulted for what Russian media chooses to do. The point is that the commentary of US pundits sometimes align with the interests of foreign countries, making those pundits "useful idiots" for the foreign countries. For example you are not refuting that liberal pundits' commentary on the trade war aligned with the interests of China. They were useful idiots for China. It may be relevant though to note WaPo's acceptance of Chinese state media advertising dollars. Sounds like WaPo is a useful idiot of an organization if it is actually disseminating Chinese propaganda. Recently the Washington Post has started carrying China Daily's US edition as a physically separate advertising supplement to the printed paper, as described here. Fine: it's clearly labeled, and we've all gotta stay in business. But now the Post is doing the same thing on its website. Look at this part of the "Washington Post"'s site as it appears just now, and tell me how obvious it is that you're seeing a paid presentation of official Chinese government propaganda perspective. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/02/official-chinese-propaganda-now-online-from-the-wapo/70690/ That’s from 2011, is it still the case? Anyway that aside, Tucker Carlson isn’t engaging in nuanced, informative or indeed at times remotely true analyses of foreign policy that has crossover that happens to have some occasional intersection with broad Russian goals. The crossover is with Russian propaganda and their talking points in that domain The left media equivalent over China would be something more akin to a pundit saying shut up about the Uighurs it’s a myth propagated by Western imperialists. Which hey, I don’t recall running into. Note the rather specific charge of Tucker Carlson doing this. One dude, not conservatives as a wider collective. I’ve read many cogent analyses from across the spectrum on foreign policy as it pertains to Russia, with differing conclusions that don’t neatly break down into straight left/right divisions of opinion. I don’t get why the natural retort is always some form of whataboutery rather than just ‘Hm, maybe this guy’s judgement, ethics, or both are bloody awful’. Counterargument: When Trump first raised the idea that maybe the virus came from a lab in China, he was ridiculed. The idea was dismissed as another of Trump's irrational thoughts and an attempt to blame China for his own faults. No respectable media organisation went and did any investigation on the lab leak theory. After Biden was elected, Biden and his advisers were now saying there was a possibility that the virus did leak from a lab in China. The point was still the same. The evidence was just the same as before. Suddenly the left-leaning media were reporting on it, when a year ago they had dismissed it out of hand, just because Trump said it, not Biden. All during this time, China claimed that the virus lab leak idea was a fabricated, baseless attack. That completely matched with the left-leaning / Democrat opinion that the lab leak idea was a fabricated, baseless attack. Can we then say that the media were useful idiots for the Chinese Communist Party? The Liberal media was reporting what the doctors were saying. Whether you agree with their choices and reasons is separate from this discussion as it was not their opinion. Also the last two big studies on the animal are coming back as way more likely from animal. https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-lab-leak-theory-undermined-new-research-points-wet-market-1683005https://fortune.com/2022/02/28/covid-wuhan-trump-lab-leak-study-market-animal-human-transmission/https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-lab-leak-hypothesis-made-it-harder-for-scientists-to-seek-the-truth/https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2022/03/14/covid-19-may-not-have-leaked-from-a-lab-its-still-a-problem-for-china/?sh=767eb54702c6The first paper, by George Gao et al., is a summary of extensive virus testing at the Huanan Seafood Market, on samples collected in early 2020. They found SARS-CoV-2 in 73 environmental samples (collected from locations in the market but not in people or animals), and yet “no virus was detected in the animal swabs covering 18 species of animals in the market.” In other words, the virus was found at the marketplace, but not in any of the animals, suggesting that infected people walking through the market were the source of those positive samples. Where did those people get the virus? This paper doesn’t answer that question.
The paper by Michael Worobey et al. shows more, however: not only do they show that all of the early cases were clustered in or very near the Huanan Seafood Market, but also that “positive environmental samples were strongly associated with vendors selling live animals.” In other words, even though we haven’t found the original animal source of the virus, the locations are all centered on live animal vendors. They conclude that the Huanan market was “the unambiguous epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic.”
The third paper, by Jonathan Pekar et al., reports that there were actually two distinct events where the original SARS-CoV-2 virus jumped from animals to humans, both at the very beginning of the pandemic, probably in late November 2019. These authors also point the finger at the Huanan Seafood Market, and they implicate another animal, raccoon dogs, as a likely source. Raccoon dogs are closely related to foxes (not raccoons, despite the name), and were being sold as food in the Huanan market. Scientists have known since at least 2003 that raccoon dogs can carry SARS coronaviruses. This paper illustrates yet again why live-animal markets represent a threat to human health. I would add that dismissing what sounded like another one of Trump's conspiracy theories out of hand is justifiable, considering at the time he uttered those comments, the only known facts were that covid started in/near Wuhan and that there was a lab doing research on viruses in Wuhan. The only known facts were precisely what made what Trump was saying possible. At a basic common sense level, it was possible. Meaning, it was not justified to dismiss it out of hand. It was just knee jerk partisanship. Correlation does not imply causation. Surely you can make a better argument?
I said only that the lab leak theory was possible, not that it was definitely true. So I did not say that correlation equals causation.
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The NYT reports today that the emails from the infamous Hunter Biden laptop have been "authenticated." In those emails Hunter never referred to Joe by name, but instead referred to him as Hunter's "guy." In one email the "big guy" is referred to as being entitled to a 10% cut of Hunter's Chinese dealings. It appears that some political grifting may have been going on within the Biden family, such that Joe profited in ways he shouldn't have. Many are calling for a special counsel, given that it is Biden's DOJ investigating the matter.
People familiar with the investigation said prosecutors had examined emails between Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer and others about Burisma and other foreign business activity. Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.
...
In one email to Mr. Archer in April 2014, Mr. Biden outlined his vision for working with Burisma. In the email, Hunter Biden indicated that the forthcoming announcement of a trip to Ukraine by Vice President Biden — who is referred to in the email as “my guy,” but not by name — should “be characterized as part of our advice and thinking — but what he will say and do is out of our hands.”
Hunter Biden Paid Tax Bill, but Federal Investigation Goes On https://nyti.ms/3wd3MNf
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I like how you completely omitted the part where he told them to temper their expectations and they’d have to go through proper channels:
“ The announcement"could be a really good thing or it could end up creating too great an expectation. We need to temper expectations regarding that visit," Hunter Biden wrote. Vice President Biden traveled to Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital, about a week after the email. In the same April 2014 email, Hunter Biden indicated that Burisma's officials "need to know in no uncertain terms that we will not and cannot intervene directly with domestic policymakers,
and that we need to abide by FARA and any other U.S. laws in the strictest sense across the
board."
He suggested enlisting the law firm where he worked at the time, Boies Schiller Flexner, to help Burisma through "direct discussions at state, energy and NSC, energy and NSC." referring to two cabinet departments and the National Security Council at the White House.”
One issue I will have to eat crow over is the laptop confirmation, because thats still the dumbest story I’ve ever heard in my life and I am in denial right now.
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On March 18 2022 13:53 Doc.Rivers wrote:The NYT reports today that the emails from the infamous Hunter Biden laptop have been "authenticated." In those emails Hunter never referred to Joe by name, but instead referred to him as Hunter's "guy." In one email the "big guy" is referred to as being entitled to a 10% cut of Hunter's Chinese dealings. It appears that some political grifting may have been going on within the Biden family, such that Joe profited in ways he shouldn't have. Many are calling for a special counsel, given that it is Biden's DOJ investigating the matter. https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1504247204357316611Show nested quote +People familiar with the investigation said prosecutors had examined emails between Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer and others about Burisma and other foreign business activity. Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.
...
In one email to Mr. Archer in April 2014, Mr. Biden outlined his vision for working with Burisma. In the email, Hunter Biden indicated that the forthcoming announcement of a trip to Ukraine by Vice President Biden — who is referred to in the email as “my guy,” but not by name — should “be characterized as part of our advice and thinking — but what he will say and do is out of our hands.” Hunter Biden Paid Tax Bill, but Federal Investigation Goes On https://nyti.ms/3wd3MNf
We should really be careful with the accusations here. As long as there is no conviction we should really shut up about this as nothing is proven yet.
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On March 18 2022 13:23 Doc.Rivers wrote:
The only known facts were precisely what made what Trump was saying possible. At a basic common sense level, it was possible. Meaning, it was not justified to dismiss it out of hand. It was just knee jerk partisanship.
Correlation does not imply causation. Surely you can make a better argument?
I said only that the lab leak theory was possible, not that it was definitely true. So I did not say that correlation equals causation.
[/QUOTE]
Just because there was a lab in Wuhan studying viruses (city population 11M) did not imply that the virus originated from that lab. Trump was making a correlation and implying causation. It is scientifically valid to dismiss that out of hand without additional facts - it's a classic layman error, partisanship does not come into it.
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On March 18 2022 17:08 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2022 13:53 Doc.Rivers wrote:The NYT reports today that the emails from the infamous Hunter Biden laptop have been "authenticated." In those emails Hunter never referred to Joe by name, but instead referred to him as Hunter's "guy." In one email the "big guy" is referred to as being entitled to a 10% cut of Hunter's Chinese dealings. It appears that some political grifting may have been going on within the Biden family, such that Joe profited in ways he shouldn't have. Many are calling for a special counsel, given that it is Biden's DOJ investigating the matter. https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1504247204357316611People familiar with the investigation said prosecutors had examined emails between Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer and others about Burisma and other foreign business activity. Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.
...
In one email to Mr. Archer in April 2014, Mr. Biden outlined his vision for working with Burisma. In the email, Hunter Biden indicated that the forthcoming announcement of a trip to Ukraine by Vice President Biden — who is referred to in the email as “my guy,” but not by name — should “be characterized as part of our advice and thinking — but what he will say and do is out of our hands.” Hunter Biden Paid Tax Bill, but Federal Investigation Goes On https://nyti.ms/3wd3MNf We should really be careful with the accusations here. As long as there is no conviction we should really shut up about this as nothing is proven yet.
One part of the story is the alleged corruption of the Bidens, which as you correctly point out is still under investigation and is not proven.
The other part concerns the 180 degree turn that the New York Times has made regarding the authenticity of the infamous laptop and the emails on it. Today they finally described it as real.
Yes, the New York Post is not a very reputable news organisation, as a tabloid paper. Still, why were those claims dismissed as Russian propaganda without any investigation until now? All the major news organizations had received a copy of the files on that laptop. Any one of them could have done this investigation a long time ago.
This reeks of the mainstream media covering up an unfavorable story for the Democrats before the election and they should be called out for it.
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On March 18 2022 17:47 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2022 17:08 Artisreal wrote:On March 18 2022 13:53 Doc.Rivers wrote:The NYT reports today that the emails from the infamous Hunter Biden laptop have been "authenticated." In those emails Hunter never referred to Joe by name, but instead referred to him as Hunter's "guy." In one email the "big guy" is referred to as being entitled to a 10% cut of Hunter's Chinese dealings. It appears that some political grifting may have been going on within the Biden family, such that Joe profited in ways he shouldn't have. Many are calling for a special counsel, given that it is Biden's DOJ investigating the matter. https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1504247204357316611People familiar with the investigation said prosecutors had examined emails between Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer and others about Burisma and other foreign business activity. Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.
...
In one email to Mr. Archer in April 2014, Mr. Biden outlined his vision for working with Burisma. In the email, Hunter Biden indicated that the forthcoming announcement of a trip to Ukraine by Vice President Biden — who is referred to in the email as “my guy,” but not by name — should “be characterized as part of our advice and thinking — but what he will say and do is out of our hands.” Hunter Biden Paid Tax Bill, but Federal Investigation Goes On https://nyti.ms/3wd3MNf We should really be careful with the accusations here. As long as there is no conviction we should really shut up about this as nothing is proven yet. One part of the story is the alleged corruption of the Bidens, which as you correctly point out is still under investigation and is not proven. The other part concerns the 180 degree turn that the New York Times has made regarding the authenticity of the infamous laptop and the emails on it. Today they finally described it as real. Yes, the New York Post is not a very reputable news organisation, as a tabloid paper. Still, why were those claims dismissed as Russian propaganda without any investigation until now? All the major news organizations had received a copy of the files on that laptop. Any one of them could have done this investigation a long time ago. This reeks of the mainstream media covering up an unfavorable story for the Democrats before the election and they should be called out for it.
In fairness to reputable journalists, the story sounded too dumb to be true -- I'm sure they're kicking themselves now!
Edit: with regards to the bidens, I'm inclined to believe that Joe did whatever he could to help out his son, and that could definitely include doing something borderline illegal.
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On March 18 2022 18:24 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2022 17:47 gobbledydook wrote:On March 18 2022 17:08 Artisreal wrote:On March 18 2022 13:53 Doc.Rivers wrote:The NYT reports today that the emails from the infamous Hunter Biden laptop have been "authenticated." In those emails Hunter never referred to Joe by name, but instead referred to him as Hunter's "guy." In one email the "big guy" is referred to as being entitled to a 10% cut of Hunter's Chinese dealings. It appears that some political grifting may have been going on within the Biden family, such that Joe profited in ways he shouldn't have. Many are calling for a special counsel, given that it is Biden's DOJ investigating the matter. https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1504247204357316611People familiar with the investigation said prosecutors had examined emails between Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer and others about Burisma and other foreign business activity. Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.
...
In one email to Mr. Archer in April 2014, Mr. Biden outlined his vision for working with Burisma. In the email, Hunter Biden indicated that the forthcoming announcement of a trip to Ukraine by Vice President Biden — who is referred to in the email as “my guy,” but not by name — should “be characterized as part of our advice and thinking — but what he will say and do is out of our hands.” Hunter Biden Paid Tax Bill, but Federal Investigation Goes On https://nyti.ms/3wd3MNf We should really be careful with the accusations here. As long as there is no conviction we should really shut up about this as nothing is proven yet. One part of the story is the alleged corruption of the Bidens, which as you correctly point out is still under investigation and is not proven. The other part concerns the 180 degree turn that the New York Times has made regarding the authenticity of the infamous laptop and the emails on it. Today they finally described it as real. Yes, the New York Post is not a very reputable news organisation, as a tabloid paper. Still, why were those claims dismissed as Russian propaganda without any investigation until now? All the major news organizations had received a copy of the files on that laptop. Any one of them could have done this investigation a long time ago. This reeks of the mainstream media covering up an unfavorable story for the Democrats before the election and they should be called out for it. In fairness to reputable journalists, the story sounded too dumb to be true -- I'm sure they're kicking themselves now! Edit: with regards to the bidens, I'm inclined to believe that Joe did whatever he could to help out his son, and that could definitely include doing something borderline illegal.
The Steele dossier was also reported as fact by the mainstream media, until it was discovered that it was completely fabricated and now the author is getting prosecuted.
Why was that not given the same skeptical treatment?
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On March 18 2022 20:09 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2022 18:24 EnDeR_ wrote:On March 18 2022 17:47 gobbledydook wrote:On March 18 2022 17:08 Artisreal wrote:On March 18 2022 13:53 Doc.Rivers wrote:The NYT reports today that the emails from the infamous Hunter Biden laptop have been "authenticated." In those emails Hunter never referred to Joe by name, but instead referred to him as Hunter's "guy." In one email the "big guy" is referred to as being entitled to a 10% cut of Hunter's Chinese dealings. It appears that some political grifting may have been going on within the Biden family, such that Joe profited in ways he shouldn't have. Many are calling for a special counsel, given that it is Biden's DOJ investigating the matter. https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1504247204357316611People familiar with the investigation said prosecutors had examined emails between Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer and others about Burisma and other foreign business activity. Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.
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In one email to Mr. Archer in April 2014, Mr. Biden outlined his vision for working with Burisma. In the email, Hunter Biden indicated that the forthcoming announcement of a trip to Ukraine by Vice President Biden — who is referred to in the email as “my guy,” but not by name — should “be characterized as part of our advice and thinking — but what he will say and do is out of our hands.” Hunter Biden Paid Tax Bill, but Federal Investigation Goes On https://nyti.ms/3wd3MNf We should really be careful with the accusations here. As long as there is no conviction we should really shut up about this as nothing is proven yet. One part of the story is the alleged corruption of the Bidens, which as you correctly point out is still under investigation and is not proven. The other part concerns the 180 degree turn that the New York Times has made regarding the authenticity of the infamous laptop and the emails on it. Today they finally described it as real. Yes, the New York Post is not a very reputable news organisation, as a tabloid paper. Still, why were those claims dismissed as Russian propaganda without any investigation until now? All the major news organizations had received a copy of the files on that laptop. Any one of them could have done this investigation a long time ago. This reeks of the mainstream media covering up an unfavorable story for the Democrats before the election and they should be called out for it. In fairness to reputable journalists, the story sounded too dumb to be true -- I'm sure they're kicking themselves now! Edit: with regards to the bidens, I'm inclined to believe that Joe did whatever he could to help out his son, and that could definitely include doing something borderline illegal. The Steele dossier was also reported as fact by the mainstream media, until it was discovered that it was completely fabricated and now the author is getting prosecuted. Why was that not given the same skeptical treatment?
That's a bold claim. Can you cite any sources that agree that everything in it was fabricated?
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Seems like big nothingburger. "The big guy" lol.
Meanwhile theres outright flouting of norms by an entire party and we worry about things like this.
Clearly a distraction and a rehash to take peoples attention away from more important things. Republicans love ground hog day.
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On March 18 2022 20:09 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2022 18:24 EnDeR_ wrote:On March 18 2022 17:47 gobbledydook wrote:On March 18 2022 17:08 Artisreal wrote:On March 18 2022 13:53 Doc.Rivers wrote:The NYT reports today that the emails from the infamous Hunter Biden laptop have been "authenticated." In those emails Hunter never referred to Joe by name, but instead referred to him as Hunter's "guy." In one email the "big guy" is referred to as being entitled to a 10% cut of Hunter's Chinese dealings. It appears that some political grifting may have been going on within the Biden family, such that Joe profited in ways he shouldn't have. Many are calling for a special counsel, given that it is Biden's DOJ investigating the matter. https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1504247204357316611People familiar with the investigation said prosecutors had examined emails between Mr. Biden, Mr. Archer and others about Burisma and other foreign business activity. Those emails were obtained by The New York Times from a cache of files that appears to have come from a laptop abandoned by Mr. Biden in a Delaware repair shop. The email and others in the cache were authenticated by people familiar with them and with the investigation.
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In one email to Mr. Archer in April 2014, Mr. Biden outlined his vision for working with Burisma. In the email, Hunter Biden indicated that the forthcoming announcement of a trip to Ukraine by Vice President Biden — who is referred to in the email as “my guy,” but not by name — should “be characterized as part of our advice and thinking — but what he will say and do is out of our hands.” Hunter Biden Paid Tax Bill, but Federal Investigation Goes On https://nyti.ms/3wd3MNf We should really be careful with the accusations here. As long as there is no conviction we should really shut up about this as nothing is proven yet. One part of the story is the alleged corruption of the Bidens, which as you correctly point out is still under investigation and is not proven. The other part concerns the 180 degree turn that the New York Times has made regarding the authenticity of the infamous laptop and the emails on it. Today they finally described it as real. Yes, the New York Post is not a very reputable news organisation, as a tabloid paper. Still, why were those claims dismissed as Russian propaganda without any investigation until now? All the major news organizations had received a copy of the files on that laptop. Any one of them could have done this investigation a long time ago. This reeks of the mainstream media covering up an unfavorable story for the Democrats before the election and they should be called out for it. In fairness to reputable journalists, the story sounded too dumb to be true -- I'm sure they're kicking themselves now! Edit: with regards to the bidens, I'm inclined to believe that Joe did whatever he could to help out his son, and that could definitely include doing something borderline illegal. The Steele dossier was also reported as fact by the mainstream media, until it was discovered that it was completely fabricated and now the author is getting prosecuted. Why was that not given the same skeptical treatment?
My recollection is that most reputable outlets (or at least the ones I follow) treated the Steele dossier with a very healthy degree of scepticism. For instance, the first article on the guardian about it www.theguardian.com, was written 9 months after the appearance of the dossier and only after a few of the claims had been confirmed.
That article even has an 'unsubstantiated claims' section:
The startling claim that Trump was filmed with prostitutes while staying at a Moscow hotel in November 2013, when he was staging the Miss Universe contest there, has not been substantiated in any way.
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On March 18 2022 21:33 Sadist wrote:
Seems like big nothingburger. "The big guy" lol.
Meanwhile theres outright flouting of norms by an entire party and we worry about things like this.
Clearly a distraction and a rehash to take peoples attention away from more important things. Republicans love ground hog day.
I feel like the laptop is only "infamous" if you gave a shit about it in the first place. What is the purpose of this, exactly? Republicans are going fucking ham on Hunter's laptop, is this some Qanon level shit where they think it's going to come back and sink Joe Biden somehow?
I mean, sure, there could be something here, but I feel like there's a very specific reason Republicans have been so myopic about the fucking laptop. Didn't seem to have similar feelings about Trump's kids. I guess even they are getting tired of repeating "but her emails". Helps to switch it up. "But HIS emails".
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Any and all ammo will probably help increase their margin of victory come midterms
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Since the laptop has a broken chain of custody, isn't all the information on it inadmissible anyway?
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United States43971 Posts
I’m somewhat surprised there even is a laptop after all this time.
My recollection is that this hardcore Trumper in a ridiculous olive green military beret (I accidentally caught some more Fox News and he showed up looking like he wanted to cosplay special forces but only had half the costume) claimed to have a secret laptop that confirmed everything QAnon said (fentanyl dealing, child sex trafficking, JFK Jr etc.) but that he would only show it to Rudy. Rudy confirmed he’d seen the laptop but apparently it went to school in Canada so you wouldn’t know it. It was a great laptop and confirmed everything they said but unfortunately it was very shy so it wasn’t possible to put the emails on a USB stick and send them to the NYT for verification.
I still don’t think the mainstream media were wrong to go with “this is what they claim but it’s obviously ridiculous” because it’s still obviously ridiculous. The fact that the laptop part turned out to be true is just reality being stranger than fiction from time to time. I don’t think it changes anything because I don’t think anyone doesn’t know the core story.
Biden’s son getting a job in part due to his relationship with Biden, obviously true without the laptop. Falls under the legal bribery we call lobbying. Not great but as I said, nobody thought it was a pure merit hire.
All the other crazy claims, still not true.
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Question is whether Joe got a cut. That question is newly raised by the NYT story (although the NYT ignored that lede). Even back before the election, one of Hunter's business partners was doing interviews on Fox saying the "big guy" was Joe. So that is a level of corroboration that the media has chosen to ignore.
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EPT
