EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3553
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On March 19 2022 04:16 KwarK wrote: The story was known, we all heard it at the time. It was very public and very discussed. The problem the laptop people had was that they were a bunch of clowns who couldn’t produce a laptop or emails or anything else but kept insisting that they would any day now. They were the same group of people who kept saying that a kraken would reveal that the Arizona ballots contained trace evidence of micropandas. The laptop was variously reported to show links to every conspiracy theory imaginable and their excuses for not being able to produce the laptop got steadily more ridiculous. The media got it right. You can’t complain that they got treated like clowns when they were all wearing clown makeup and throwing buckets of water over each other. They ruined their own credibility. I think it's really worth emphasizing the selective memory of the political world with this post. People talked about this laptop thing constantly back when it first surfaced. To act like "the mainstream media" actively suppressed it is a damn joke. The entire concept of the "mainstream media" is a conservative boogeyman used to cry victimhood when many of the largest and most successful media entities are staunchly conservative. | ||
|
farvacola
United States18826 Posts
On March 19 2022 07:01 Stratos_speAr wrote: I think it's really worth emphasizing the selective memory of the political world with this post. People talked about this laptop thing constantly back when it first surfaced. To act like "the mainstream media" actively suppressed it is a damn joke. The entire concept of the "mainstream media" is a conservative boogeyman used to cry victimhood when many of the largest and most successful media entities are staunchly conservative. Indeed, those recollections of how things went down say more about the storyteller than the truth of the story being told. | ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States23221 Posts
On March 19 2022 03:59 NewSunshine wrote: I think that's reasonable. To me that's its own ball of wax, and I agree 100%, I also have a strong reaction when I learn that someone makes a shitload of money while providing no real value, compared to how it is for me and everyone I know. But, again, that's kind of the system we have. I would prefer a system where everything was being scrutinized a little harder, but I have a particular problem that this is being presented as some political showstopper, by the same people who didn't give a shit about the issue 2 years ago. It's the bad faith thing for me, more than I think Joe Biden is great. Before Trump became Democrats decency bar it might have been. | ||
|
Doc.Rivers
United States404 Posts
| ||
|
Introvert
United States4748 Posts
On March 19 2022 04:16 KwarK wrote: The story was known, we all heard it at the time. It was very public and very discussed. The problem the laptop people had was that they were a bunch of clowns who couldn’t produce a laptop or emails or anything else but kept insisting that they would any day now. They were the same group of people who kept saying that a kraken would reveal that the Arizona ballots contained trace evidence of micropandas. The laptop was variously reported to show links to every conspiracy theory imaginable and their excuses for not being able to produce the laptop got steadily more ridiculous. The media got it right. You can’t complain that they got treated like clowns when they were all wearing clown makeup and throwing buckets of water over each other. They ruined their own credibility. As a general reply: They said it was misinformation, but it wasn't, and yet they got it right? OK. Clowns latched onto it... so what? They always were going to, and that happens on every side where the partisan hacks take everything to 11. But twitter suspended the NYP account and blocked people from sharing the link and were cheered on by journalists. That's not "getting it right." I'm not the one retconning what happened. The Biden camp didn't even directly deny the story, and not long after hunter admitted it could be his (nice hedge). But now in March 2022 we get around to it... There was suppression, FB and twitter even admitted it without using the words. The media only covered it to the extent that the "Hunter Biden laptop story" was almost certainly Russian disinformation and that it should be dismissed as quackery. That doesn't count as "reporting." | ||
|
Sermokala
United States13925 Posts
On March 19 2022 07:50 Doc.Rivers wrote: It may be more accurate to say that only big tech, not the media, actively suppressed the laptop story. Though the media did try to paint the story as Russian disinformation. Regardless we know now that the laptop was very real and I hope we get more details on the financial relationship between Joe and his son. Always good to know what sort of corruption is going on. According to the Daily Mail, which has been reporting on the contents of the laptop, the two shared bank accounts. Who is this "Big tech" that you've been told exists and was somehow able to stop them from releasing the data on the laptop to anyone at any time in the past year or more? Do you really think a bunch of private companies were able to coordinate in lockstep to prevent him from just walking the thing to any newspaper or using any of a dozen different ways to spread the contents of the laptop? Why do you think that only now more than a year after it was first spoken up it is finally getting out in the public enough and that they have now foiled this massive conspiracy of giant public companies from supressing it? You do realize they're just doing this now to influence the midterms because they know videos of republicans supporting putin is going to be pretty damaging to anyone who wants to run for republican primaries supporting trump and then try to sell the public on them not being supporters of trump? | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands21667 Posts
On March 19 2022 07:50 Doc.Rivers wrote: really? big tech?It may be more accurate to say that only big tech, not the media, actively suppressed the laptop story. Though the media did try to paint the story as Russian disinformation. Regardless we know now that the laptop was very real and I hope we get more details on the financial relationship between Joe and his son. Always good to know what sort of corruption is going on. According to the Daily Mail, which has been reporting on the contents of the laptop, the two shared bank accounts. Yes the media thought it was Russian disinformation because the entire situation around it was a clown fiesta of people mysteriously 'losing' damning evidence and not showing a damn thing. If you refuse to show your homework to the teacher and say you lost it on the way to school you don't get to blame the teacher for thinking you didn't do it. | ||
|
Sermokala
United States13925 Posts
On March 19 2022 07:57 Introvert wrote: As a general reply: They said it was misinformation, but it wasn't, and yet they got it right? OK. Clowns latched onto it... so what? They always were going to, and that happens on every side where the partisan hacks take everything to 11. But twitter suspended the NYP account and blocked people from sharing the link and were cheered on by journalists. That's not "getting it right." I'm not the one retconning what happened. The Biden camp didn't even directly deny the story, and not long after hunter admitted it could be his (nice hedge). But now in March 2022 we get around to it... There was suppression, FB and twitter even admitted it without using the words. The media only covered it to the extent that the "Hunter Biden laptop story" was almost certainly Russian disinformation and that it should be dismissed as quackery. That doesn't count as "reporting." Its still going to be used as russian disinformation and the stories fox will run endlessly on it should be dismissed as quackery. If they were perfectly fine with much more blatant, much more clear, much more admitted, much more money being shuttled into Trumps pocket. And that they're going to use this as justification to return to a guy openly and constantly doing what they accuse joe biden of doing but on steriods. | ||
|
Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
I'm genuinely curious. | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
KwarK
United States42654 Posts
On March 19 2022 07:57 Introvert wrote: As a general reply: They said it was misinformation, but it wasn't, and yet they got it right? OK. Clowns latched onto it... so what? They always were going to, and that happens on every side where the partisan hacks take everything to 11. But twitter suspended the NYP account and blocked people from sharing the link and were cheered on by journalists. That's not "getting it right." I'm not the one retconning what happened. The Biden camp didn't even directly deny the story, and not long after hunter admitted it could be his (nice hedge). But now in March 2022 we get around to it... There was suppression, FB and twitter even admitted it without using the words. The media only covered it to the extent that the "Hunter Biden laptop story" was almost certainly Russian disinformation and that it should be dismissed as quackery. That doesn't count as "reporting." Nobody on TL is going “what laptop?” because we all heard the story at the time. Everyone heard the story at the time. We all heard the story of a secret laptop that contained the evidence that would finally X. It was big news. It was talked about non stop for a few weeks on conservative media which is mainstream media and therefore it was brought up by secondary media reporting on the reporting. If you’re alleging that the story was suppressed I have to wonder who you think it was suppressed from. Certainly none of us. The problem was that nobody would tell anyone what was on the laptop and most of the conservative world was making up shit that they hoped might be on the laptop. The people who claimed to have it couldn’t produce it, the people who claimed to have been shown it couldn’t say what they saw, a dog ate someone’s homework and the someone’s Canadian girlfriend goes to a different school so you wouldn’t know her but she’s super hot. This is a 100% self inflicted wound. You can’t have fucking Giuliani be your spokesperson and complain when nobody takes your allegations seriously without proof. Trump has subjected conservatives to an escalating series of insane purity tests that have left most sane conservatives outsiders. You can’t be a conservative spokesperson anymore unless you’re willing to stand in front of a camera and say that Hillary helped Biden steal the election with the use of bamboo, a kraken, and a xerox machine. Reasonable conservatives have failed these purity tests and been exiled as RINOs while the rest of you watch and stay silent. So when there actually is a laptop and they give it to an established liar who promptly loses it but makes a series of wild claims about the contents conservatives really have nobody to blame but themselves. Mueller is a conservative, they could have given it to him and people would have listened. 100% self inflicted. No sympathy from me, most of the wild allegations are still untrue, the bizarre excuses for why they couldn’t show anyone the emails are still bizarre, Giuliani is still a proven liar. You can’t play the victim when 1% of what Rudy said was true but nobody believed him. If you want trust get a trustworthy spokesperson. | ||
|
Introvert
United States4748 Posts
On March 19 2022 08:29 KwarK wrote: Nobody on TL is going “what laptop?” because we all heard the story at the time. Everyone heard the story at the time. We all heard the story of a secret laptop that contained the evidence that would finally X. It was big news. It was talked about non stop for a few weeks on conservative media which is mainstream media and therefore it was brought up by secondary media reporting on the reporting. If you’re alleging that the story was suppressed I have to wonder who you think it was suppressed from. Certainly none of us. The problem was that nobody would tell anyone what was on the laptop and most of the conservative world was making up shit that they hoped might be on the laptop. The people who claimed to have it couldn’t produce it, the people who claimed to have been shown it couldn’t say what they saw, a dog ate someone’s homework and the someone’s Canadian girlfriend goes to a different school so you wouldn’t know her but she’s super hot. This is a 100% self inflicted wound. You can’t have fucking Giuliani be your spokesperson and complain when nobody takes your allegations seriously without proof. Trump has subjected conservatives to an escalating series of insane purity tests that have left most sane conservatives outsiders. You can’t be a conservative spokesperson anymore unless you’re willing to stand in front of a camera and say that Hillary helped Biden steal the election with the use of bamboo, a kraken, and a xerox machine. Reasonable conservatives have failed these purity tests and been exiled as RINOs while the rest of you watch and stay silent. So when there actually is a laptop and they give it to an established liar who promptly loses it but makes a series of wild claims about the contents conservatives really have nobody to blame but themselves. Mueller is a conservative, they could have given it to him and people would have listened. 100% self inflicted. No sympathy from me, most of the wild allegations are still untrue, the bizarre excuses for why they couldn’t show anyone the emails are still bizarre, Giuliani is still a proven liar. You can’t play the victim when 1% of what Rudy said was true but nobody believed him. If you want trust get a trustworthy spokesperson. I'm not basing it on Rudy, he acted like a clown. He did, however provide a copy to the Post, who admitted where they got it and that it was a copy. It appeared legit (because, as we now know, it was), but it was dismissed out of hand. Any "reporting" on the topic assumed it was false. And again, they showed pictures and emails that were there and the Biden's wouldn't even deny they were actually real. Now the younger Biden is a serial liar like his father, so I have no idea if he actually did 10% of things he claims he did, but he did say them. And it was suppressed, linked the article where FB and twitter admitted as much. You quite literally couldn't send it anywhere on twitter and mainstream organizations wouldn't even link it. It doesn't have to be a government enforced black out ala Putin with the war in Ukraine for it to count. NPR called the story a waste of time regardless of the veracity. But yes, people still had the ability to email it to each other I suppose! This should cause a moment of media self-reflection where they apply appreciate levels of scrutiny and approach things with some integrity and journalistic curiosity, but that's not what we got. On March 19 2022 08:19 Artisreal wrote: What relevance does the laptop story have regarding which specific topics, in your personal opinions @introvert @doc? I'm genuinely curious. We'll see what the investigators find, like I said above I don't know that any of his claims are true because Hunter is a liar and deeply troubled individual. (Except i believe the story about Joe meeting someone at an event set up by Hunter has been independently verified.) | ||
|
Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On March 19 2022 08:29 KwarK wrote: Nobody on TL is going “what laptop?” because we all heard the story at the time. Everyone heard the story at the time. We all heard the story of a secret laptop that contained the evidence that would finally X. It was big news. It was talked about non stop for a few weeks on conservative media which is mainstream media and therefore it was brought up by secondary media reporting on the reporting. If you’re alleging that the story was suppressed I have to wonder who you think it was suppressed from. Certainly none of us. The problem was that nobody would tell anyone what was on the laptop and most of the conservative world was making up shit that they hoped might be on the laptop. The people who claimed to have it couldn’t produce it, the people who claimed to have been shown it couldn’t say what they saw, a dog ate someone’s homework and the someone’s Canadian girlfriend goes to a different school so you wouldn’t know her but she’s super hot. This is a 100% self inflicted wound. You can’t have fucking Giuliani be your spokesperson and complain when nobody takes your allegations seriously without proof. Trump has subjected conservatives to an escalating series of insane purity tests that have left most sane conservatives outsiders. You can’t be a conservative spokesperson anymore unless you’re willing to stand in front of a camera and say that Hillary helped Biden steal the election with the use of bamboo, a kraken, and a xerox machine. Reasonable conservatives have failed these purity tests and been exiled as RINOs while the rest of you watch and stay silent. So when there actually is a laptop and they give it to an established liar who promptly loses it but makes a series of wild claims about the contents conservatives really have nobody to blame but themselves. Mueller is a conservative, they could have given it to him and people would have listened. 100% self inflicted. No sympathy from me, most of the wild allegations are still untrue, the bizarre excuses for why they couldn’t show anyone the emails are still bizarre, Giuliani is still a proven liar. You can’t play the victim when 1% of what Rudy said was true but nobody believed him. If you want trust get a trustworthy spokesperson. It's almost as if Crying Wolf all the time loses you credibility. | ||
|
Severedevil
United States4838 Posts
| ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
KwarK
United States42654 Posts
| ||
|
Belisarius
Australia6230 Posts
On March 19 2022 11:31 Introvert wrote: This should cause a moment of media self-reflection where they apply appreciate levels of scrutiny and approach things with some integrity and journalistic curiosity, but that's not what we got. No it shouldn't. The only thing it should cause people to reflect on is how Guiliani could possibly have had physical evidence to show, yet still managed that evidence so badly that its existence is only coming out now. Assertions require evidence to be taken seriously. If I have evidence but inexplicably fail to provide it, I will not be taken seriously. This was true before Guiliani stood in front of a microphone with an invisible laptop and it is certainly still true after. | ||
|
Introvert
United States4748 Posts
On March 19 2022 12:42 KwarK wrote: I still don’t get how we all heard about the suppressed story at the time. I forgot we're doing the thing where we assume only the narrowest, most convenient definition. I am curious what word you would use to describe what the likes of FB and twitter did. Censor, perhaps? But you're going to tell me they aren't the government so that's not right. Maybe you can use an artful term like the NPR article i linked. "Limit the distribution of." World of difference there. On March 19 2022 12:54 Belisarius wrote: No it shouldn't. The only thing it should cause people to reflect on is how Guiliani could possibly have had physical evidence to show, yet still managed that evidence so badly that its existence is only coming out now. Assertions require evidence to be taken seriously. If I have evidence but inexplicably fail to provide it, I will not be taken seriously. This was true before Guiliani stood in front of a microphone with an invisible laptop and it is certainly still true after. They did have evidence, they had a copy of the drive. They didn't have the computer itself because, at least according the person who had possession of it, he turned it over the federal authorities. Now obviously having the computer itself would have been better, but the reason for not having it was plausible and, as it turns out, true. edit: re-reading the story, best i can tell the owner actually still had the laptop until December, when the feds took it. So that part is wrong, I think. | ||
|
Gahlo
United States35143 Posts
On March 19 2022 11:31 Introvert wrote: I'm not basing it on Rudy, he acted like a clown. He did, however provide a copy to the Post, who admitted where they got it and that it was a copy. It appeared legit (because, as we now know, it was), but it was dismissed out of hand. Any "reporting" on the topic assumed it was false. And again, they showed pictures and emails that were there and the Biden's wouldn't even deny they were actually real. Now the younger Biden is a serial liar like his father, so I have no idea if he actually did 10% of things he claims he did, but he did say them. And it was suppressed, linked the article where FB and twitter admitted as much. You quite literally couldn't send it anywhere on twitter and mainstream organizations wouldn't even link it. It doesn't have to be a government enforced black out ala Putin with the war in Ukraine for it to count. NPR called the story a waste of time regardless of the veracity. But yes, people still had the ability to email it to each other I suppose! This should cause a moment of media self-reflection where they apply appreciate levels of scrutiny and approach things with some integrity and journalistic curiosity, but that's not what we got. We'll see what the investigators find, like I said above I don't know that any of his claims are true because Hunter is a liar and deeply troubled individual. (Except i believe the story about Joe meeting someone at an event set up by Hunter has been independently verified.) There is 0 forensic way to ensure that. By the process of how it was procured, all that data is tainted - be it in its original state or otherwise. | ||
| ||
