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On March 19 2022 14:17 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2022 11:31 Introvert wrote:On March 19 2022 08:29 KwarK wrote:On March 19 2022 07:57 Introvert wrote:On March 19 2022 04:16 KwarK wrote:On March 19 2022 03:45 Introvert wrote:
Aside from the content of the emails, the big story here is how weeks before the election social media, and the media generally, decided that the story was Russian misinformation and actively suppressed it and delegitimized it without even checking on all to help a political candidate. Amusing we were just talking about the trustworthiness of the mainstream media last week and had people defending them and whining about "misinformation" only for this to come out. Egg on face moment for sure. It takes a year and a half just for the legacy media to admit the email were even real. What a joke they are. The story was known, we all heard it at the time. It was very public and very discussed. The problem the laptop people had was that they were a bunch of clowns who couldn’t produce a laptop or emails or anything else but kept insisting that they would any day now. They were the same group of people who kept saying that a kraken would reveal that the Arizona ballots contained trace evidence of micropandas. The laptop was variously reported to show links to every conspiracy theory imaginable and their excuses for not being able to produce the laptop got steadily more ridiculous. The media got it right. You can’t complain that they got treated like clowns when they were all wearing clown makeup and throwing buckets of water over each other. They ruined their own credibility. As a general reply: They said it was misinformation, but it wasn't, and yet they got it right? OK. Clowns latched onto it... so what? They always were going to, and that happens on every side where the partisan hacks take everything to 11. But twitter suspended the NYP account and blocked people from sharing the link and were cheered on by journalists. That's not "getting it right." I'm not the one retconning what happened. The Biden camp didn't even directly deny the story, and not long after hunter admitted it could be his (nice hedge). But now in March 2022 we get around to it... There was suppression, FB and twitter even admitted it without using the words. The media only covered it to the extent that the "Hunter Biden laptop story" was almost certainly Russian disinformation and that it should be dismissed as quackery. That doesn't count as "reporting." Nobody on TL is going “what laptop?” because we all heard the story at the time. Everyone heard the story at the time. We all heard the story of a secret laptop that contained the evidence that would finally X. It was big news. It was talked about non stop for a few weeks on conservative media which is mainstream media and therefore it was brought up by secondary media reporting on the reporting. If you’re alleging that the story was suppressed I have to wonder who you think it was suppressed from. Certainly none of us. The problem was that nobody would tell anyone what was on the laptop and most of the conservative world was making up shit that they hoped might be on the laptop. The people who claimed to have it couldn’t produce it, the people who claimed to have been shown it couldn’t say what they saw, a dog ate someone’s homework and the someone’s Canadian girlfriend goes to a different school so you wouldn’t know her but she’s super hot. This is a 100% self inflicted wound. You can’t have fucking Giuliani be your spokesperson and complain when nobody takes your allegations seriously without proof. Trump has subjected conservatives to an escalating series of insane purity tests that have left most sane conservatives outsiders. You can’t be a conservative spokesperson anymore unless you’re willing to stand in front of a camera and say that Hillary helped Biden steal the election with the use of bamboo, a kraken, and a xerox machine. Reasonable conservatives have failed these purity tests and been exiled as RINOs while the rest of you watch and stay silent. So when there actually is a laptop and they give it to an established liar who promptly loses it but makes a series of wild claims about the contents conservatives really have nobody to blame but themselves. Mueller is a conservative, they could have given it to him and people would have listened. 100% self inflicted. No sympathy from me, most of the wild allegations are still untrue, the bizarre excuses for why they couldn’t show anyone the emails are still bizarre, Giuliani is still a proven liar. You can’t play the victim when 1% of what Rudy said was true but nobody believed him. If you want trust get a trustworthy spokesperson. I'm not basing it on Rudy, he acted like a clown. He did, however provide a copy to the Post, who admitted where they got it and that it was a copy. It appeared legit (because, as we now know, it was), but it was dismissed out of hand. Any "reporting" on the topic assumed it was false. And again, they showed pictures and emails that were there and the Biden's wouldn't even deny they were actually real. Now the younger Biden is a serial liar like his father, so I have no idea if he actually did 10% of things he claims he did, but he did say them. And it was suppressed, linked the article where FB and twitter admitted as much. You quite literally couldn't send it anywhere on twitter and mainstream organizations wouldn't even link it. It doesn't have to be a government enforced black out ala Putin with the war in Ukraine for it to count. NPR called the story a waste of time regardless of the veracity. But yes, people still had the ability to email it to each other I suppose! This should cause a moment of media self-reflection where they apply appreciate levels of scrutiny and approach things with some integrity and journalistic curiosity, but that's not what we got. On March 19 2022 08:19 Artisreal wrote:
What relevance does the laptop story have regarding which specific topics, in your personal opinions @introvert @doc?
I'm genuinely curious. We'll see what the investigators find, like I said above I don't know that any of his claims are true because Hunter is a liar and deeply troubled individual. (Except i believe the story about Joe meeting someone at an event set up by Hunter has been independently verified.) There is 0 forensic way to ensure that. By the process of how it was procured, all that data is tainted - be it in its original state or otherwise.
as i noted in my edit above, made after this post, the repair shop actually had the laptop into december. I don't know that it changes that much, but he did have it, and the copy he made was legit it appears. So i was wrong about that part. I'm not sure how a copy is tainting it, but I can also understand not giving the actual device to Giuliani, or anyone else. and at least one person came out saying the emails with his name on them were legit, though he was dismissed as a clout-seeker or some such as I remember. But those emails were, in fact, real.
edit to below: it's good thing I'm not relying on him for anything, it came from the repair shop guy via Giuliani. Not the way I would have done it, but it's not his material.
edit again: you may be referring to the repair shop guy himself, in which I agree. but that's not the reason this was story was treated with such contempt.
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United States43620 Posts
Maybe there’s some kind of lesson in this about not having Giuliani as your spokesperson. If he told me water was wet I’d go check.
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On March 19 2022 14:28 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2022 14:17 Gahlo wrote:On March 19 2022 11:31 Introvert wrote:On March 19 2022 08:29 KwarK wrote:On March 19 2022 07:57 Introvert wrote:On March 19 2022 04:16 KwarK wrote:On March 19 2022 03:45 Introvert wrote:
Aside from the content of the emails, the big story here is how weeks before the election social media, and the media generally, decided that the story was Russian misinformation and actively suppressed it and delegitimized it without even checking on all to help a political candidate. Amusing we were just talking about the trustworthiness of the mainstream media last week and had people defending them and whining about "misinformation" only for this to come out. Egg on face moment for sure. It takes a year and a half just for the legacy media to admit the email were even real. What a joke they are. The story was known, we all heard it at the time. It was very public and very discussed. The problem the laptop people had was that they were a bunch of clowns who couldn’t produce a laptop or emails or anything else but kept insisting that they would any day now. They were the same group of people who kept saying that a kraken would reveal that the Arizona ballots contained trace evidence of micropandas. The laptop was variously reported to show links to every conspiracy theory imaginable and their excuses for not being able to produce the laptop got steadily more ridiculous. The media got it right. You can’t complain that they got treated like clowns when they were all wearing clown makeup and throwing buckets of water over each other. They ruined their own credibility. As a general reply: They said it was misinformation, but it wasn't, and yet they got it right? OK. Clowns latched onto it... so what? They always were going to, and that happens on every side where the partisan hacks take everything to 11. But twitter suspended the NYP account and blocked people from sharing the link and were cheered on by journalists. That's not "getting it right." I'm not the one retconning what happened. The Biden camp didn't even directly deny the story, and not long after hunter admitted it could be his (nice hedge). But now in March 2022 we get around to it... There was suppression, FB and twitter even admitted it without using the words. The media only covered it to the extent that the "Hunter Biden laptop story" was almost certainly Russian disinformation and that it should be dismissed as quackery. That doesn't count as "reporting." Nobody on TL is going “what laptop?” because we all heard the story at the time. Everyone heard the story at the time. We all heard the story of a secret laptop that contained the evidence that would finally X. It was big news. It was talked about non stop for a few weeks on conservative media which is mainstream media and therefore it was brought up by secondary media reporting on the reporting. If you’re alleging that the story was suppressed I have to wonder who you think it was suppressed from. Certainly none of us. The problem was that nobody would tell anyone what was on the laptop and most of the conservative world was making up shit that they hoped might be on the laptop. The people who claimed to have it couldn’t produce it, the people who claimed to have been shown it couldn’t say what they saw, a dog ate someone’s homework and the someone’s Canadian girlfriend goes to a different school so you wouldn’t know her but she’s super hot. This is a 100% self inflicted wound. You can’t have fucking Giuliani be your spokesperson and complain when nobody takes your allegations seriously without proof. Trump has subjected conservatives to an escalating series of insane purity tests that have left most sane conservatives outsiders. You can’t be a conservative spokesperson anymore unless you’re willing to stand in front of a camera and say that Hillary helped Biden steal the election with the use of bamboo, a kraken, and a xerox machine. Reasonable conservatives have failed these purity tests and been exiled as RINOs while the rest of you watch and stay silent. So when there actually is a laptop and they give it to an established liar who promptly loses it but makes a series of wild claims about the contents conservatives really have nobody to blame but themselves. Mueller is a conservative, they could have given it to him and people would have listened. 100% self inflicted. No sympathy from me, most of the wild allegations are still untrue, the bizarre excuses for why they couldn’t show anyone the emails are still bizarre, Giuliani is still a proven liar. You can’t play the victim when 1% of what Rudy said was true but nobody believed him. If you want trust get a trustworthy spokesperson. I'm not basing it on Rudy, he acted like a clown. He did, however provide a copy to the Post, who admitted where they got it and that it was a copy. It appeared legit (because, as we now know, it was), but it was dismissed out of hand. Any "reporting" on the topic assumed it was false. And again, they showed pictures and emails that were there and the Biden's wouldn't even deny they were actually real. Now the younger Biden is a serial liar like his father, so I have no idea if he actually did 10% of things he claims he did, but he did say them. And it was suppressed, linked the article where FB and twitter admitted as much. You quite literally couldn't send it anywhere on twitter and mainstream organizations wouldn't even link it. It doesn't have to be a government enforced black out ala Putin with the war in Ukraine for it to count. NPR called the story a waste of time regardless of the veracity. But yes, people still had the ability to email it to each other I suppose! This should cause a moment of media self-reflection where they apply appreciate levels of scrutiny and approach things with some integrity and journalistic curiosity, but that's not what we got. On March 19 2022 08:19 Artisreal wrote:
What relevance does the laptop story have regarding which specific topics, in your personal opinions @introvert @doc?
I'm genuinely curious. We'll see what the investigators find, like I said above I don't know that any of his claims are true because Hunter is a liar and deeply troubled individual. (Except i believe the story about Joe meeting someone at an event set up by Hunter has been independently verified.) There is 0 forensic way to ensure that. By the process of how it was procured, all that data is tainted - be it in its original state or otherwise. as i noted in my edit above, made after this post, the repair shop actually had the laptop into december. I don't know that it changes that much, but he did have it, and the copy he made was legit it appears. So i was wrong about that part. I'm not sure how a copy is tainting it, but I can also understand not giving the actual device to Giuliani, or anyone else. and at least one person came out saying the emails with his name on them were legit, though he was dismissed as a clout-seeker or some such as I remember. But those emails were, in fact, real. edit to below: it's good thing I'm not relying on him for anything, it came from the repair shop guy via Giuliani. Not the way I would have done it, but it's not his material. edit again: you may be referring to the repair shop guy himself, in which I agree. but that's not the reason this was story was treated with such contempt.
The repair shop guy in himself is suspect, but I'm not even discussing him.
Just mounting a drive to copy another drive in most operating systems changes the overall data on the drive. So unless he used a write-blocker, which stops that from happening, then the copy is forensically tainted even if the only change to the drive was from the act of copying it. The same can be said about turning off a computer and booting onto that drive. Digital forensics is very particular about things like that.
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On March 19 2022 14:39 KwarK wrote:
Maybe there’s some kind of lesson in this about not having Giuliani as your spokesperson. If he told me water was wet I’d go check.
at least you'd go check if water was wet. The media by and large didn't even bother to check.
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On March 19 2022 16:11 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2022 14:39 KwarK wrote:
Maybe there’s some kind of lesson in this about not having Giuliani as your spokesperson. If he told me water was wet I’d go check. at least you'd go check if water was wet. The media by and large didn't even bother to check.
When you consistently have a side of the aisle that operates in bad faith you at some point have to take that into consideration. Republicans and conservative media are absolutely exhausting with the amount of bullshit they peddle. Investigating all of their outright lies and at best half truths is a full time job. Theyve lost the benefit of the doubt a long time ago. Its going to take some conscious effort on their part and a long fucking time to prove that they arent operating in exclusively bad faith.
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On March 19 2022 16:11 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2022 14:39 KwarK wrote:
Maybe there’s some kind of lesson in this about not having Giuliani as your spokesperson. If he told me water was wet I’d go check. at least you'd go check if water was wet. The media by and large didn't even bother to check.
I don't know about you but if I was a serious journalist and my source said they'd only send me the data in a usb stick, but it got lost in the mail, I'd have little motivation to take it seriously.
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Well, you can argue that the media didn’t think anything the Republicans said was trustworthy but then don’t be surprised when half the country believes the media is biased and out to get them.
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On March 19 2022 19:43 gobbledydook wrote:
Well, you can argue that the media didn’t think anything the Republicans said was trustworthy but then don’t be surprised when half the country believes the media is biased and out to get them. "We know we regularly lie about everything and we admit this looks extremely shady with how we refuse to show anything and lose the important evidence in the mail but your biased for deciding that this means you shouldn't take us seriously".
No, bullshit. The boy who cried wolf doesn't get to complain the town is biased and out to get him when an actual wolf showed up for once.
If Republicans want to be taken seriously they should consider starting to act like it first.
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On March 19 2022 16:11 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2022 14:39 KwarK wrote:
Maybe there’s some kind of lesson in this about not having Giuliani as your spokesperson. If he told me water was wet I’d go check. at least you'd go check if water was wet. The media by and large didn't even bother to check.
How do you want people to check on something that couldn't be produced ?
Want to report on my cat that poops gold ? I can't show you the cat or the gold but you better have a full day about that or i'm crying partisanship.
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United States43620 Posts
On March 19 2022 19:43 gobbledydook wrote:
Well, you can argue that the media didn’t think anything the Republicans said was trustworthy but then don’t be surprised when half the country believes the media is biased and out to get them.
Anything that Giuliani said was trustworthy. They could have given Mueller the laptop, he’s a Republican. They decided that the guy most well known for lying about everything was the guy.
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Not to continue on the topic of Guliani, because it wasn't his claims thr media decided to "limit the distribution of" it was the NYP stories. And most importantly the idea these companies and reporters are so sure of themselves that preemptively squash potentially true stories about people they support is what is concerning here..
But thinking about it some more, it makes some sort of sense to give the copy to Giuliani first. Recall he was the guy Trump set to root around and find stuff about the Bidens ans Ukraine. He, uh, didn't do a good job from our perspective but then again not everyone pays super close attention. From the perspective of the repair shop guy, he had a device with potentially important and damning information about the bidens weeks before the election. Law enforcement would be too slow, and Guliani was already on the case if you will. And he's someone that, for better or for worse, can get the media attention. The existence of the laptop and the contents on it would boost Guliani rep with guy even if he WAS skeptical before.
So there is at least some logic to it.
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On March 20 2022 00:02 JimmiC wrote:
So is the big news that the laptop was real? That really is not much news unless there is something on it that mattes is it not? That Hunter sent some emails saying that "the big guy" gets 10% is great for tabloids I guess? Its nothing compared to what Trump does openly, or what a bunch of other politicians and Conservative supreme court justices do.
I noticed NPRs actual retraction was not as you said but rather on a book review where they said US intelligence had said it was not real, that the intelligence had not said that.
What is taking so long for the real juicy proof? Or was the reason they hid it because it was real, but there was nothing good on it? Maybe they thought the claims were better then the Truth and by waiting they can pretend like it proves all their made claims when it does not? Like how they ignore the entire Mueller report and pretend like it made Trump look good.
Ok I'll reply for the sake of clarification.. What NPR story? I didn't say anything about an NPR retraction, I referred to a statement by them saying it wasn't a worthy story, and I linked the NPR article about how big tech handled it.
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On March 19 2022 19:35 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2022 16:11 gobbledydook wrote:On March 19 2022 14:39 KwarK wrote:
Maybe there’s some kind of lesson in this about not having Giuliani as your spokesperson. If he told me water was wet I’d go check. at least you'd go check if water was wet. The media by and large didn't even bother to check. I don't know about you but if I was a serious journalist and my source said they'd only send me the data in a usb stick, but it got lost in the mail, I'd have little motivation to take it seriously.
"But now we found a laptop, we swear it's the real thing. Or was, at least. Chrome ate the files."
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On March 20 2022 00:02 JimmiC wrote:
So is the big news that the laptop was real? That really is not much news unless there is something on it that mattes is it not? That Hunter sent some emails saying that "the big guy" gets 10% is great for tabloids I guess? Its nothing compared to what Trump does openly, or what a bunch of other politicians and Conservative supreme court justices do.
I noticed NPRs actual retraction was not as you said but rather on a book review where they said US intelligence had said it was not real, that the intelligence had not said that.
What is taking so long for the real juicy proof? Or was the reason they hid it because it was real, but there was nothing good on it? Maybe they thought the claims were better then the Truth and by waiting they can pretend like it proves all their made claims when it does not? Like how they ignore the entire Mueller report and pretend like it made Trump look good.
You're dismissing the big guy's 10% by pointing to trump and Clarence Thomas, but wouldn't you consider that to be whataboutism? I'd like to know all about that 10%. Maybe we should even have a special counsel slamming hunter with fara charges unless he cooperates by talking about his father.
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I think we're dismissing the big guy's 10% because the USB stick containing the only copy of the emails got lost in the mail.
Just understand how stupid that sentence feels. Sit with it.
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I find it amazing that we're still talking about this, honestly. I'm trying to rack my brain to figure out what the goal is, but the only thing I can come up with is what's happening right now. We haven't been talking about anything else for several pages now, only about how a bunch of Trumpers made up a bunch of bullshit just so they could fabricate headlines about shit that's a drop in the bucket that their guys filled with piss. And we're in the wrong for thinking something doesn't smell right. Seems legit.
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The whole laptop thing is a nothingburger, and will continue to be until something actually gets confirmed. Nearly every single politician uses their role for monetary or political gain, why care unless someone gets caught and its egregious. Politicians employ nepotism, the horror
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EPT
