EPTIf it is criminal, have the FBI probe it. If it is political, don't expect the other side to lie down and take it.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3494
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gobbledydook
Australia2605 Posts
If it is criminal, have the FBI probe it. If it is political, don't expect the other side to lie down and take it. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27206 Posts
On February 10 2022 15:37 Sermokala wrote: You should be careful when crafting any statement so that people understand what you mean regardless of the audience that it is going out to. This isn't small town council shit this is major leagues. There's no excuse for making mistakes like that when you have people arguing about it and voting on it. They knew what the words meant. They kept the words. They decided to change their words after the fact when they realized how poorly they were being taken by everyone. Trying to rewrite history after you've been caught endorseing a coup doesn't change that history. One would have thought that January 6th would have been something of a wake up call as to the pot they are stirring, but apparently not. You don’t get to peek into Pandora’s box and then cram everything by back in there, it’s not how it works. ‘Hang Mike Pence’ and all that. I hesitate to use the word mainstream in referencing them, perhaps moderate or, ideological conservative is a more apt descriptor. However one describes it, they seem, along with the RNC in general to consistently underestimate the people that are under the umbrella and allowed to ferment and influence the direction of things. These people aren’t your friends, they’re a populist mob with a tenuous grip on reality, no real consistent ideology and who’ll throw you to the lions as well if you transgress their sensibilities. All the while bemoaning partisanship ad nausea, perhaps people would be inclined to engage in more fruitful dialogue if some of this was disavowed more strongly and frequently. | ||
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smille
Germany30 Posts
On February 10 2022 17:47 Silvanel wrote: I wish people would stop comparing minor inconvincies to things done by Nazi/SS/gestapo. FFS noone is rounding up random citizens, putting them against wall and then executing. Those people have no idea what real persecution looks like. To be fair, I wish people could differentiate between comparing and equating things. Although in this context, I guess you are right. Making a comparison without providing any reasoning or highlighting similarities is kind of pointless and dishonest. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27206 Posts
On February 10 2022 18:28 smille wrote: To be fair, I wish people could differentiate between comparing and equating things. Although in this context, I guess you are right. Making a comparison without providing any reasoning or highlighting similarities is kind of pointless and dishonest. I like my analogies as anyone who’s a regular in this thread will know. 9/10 times though invocation of Nazism to compare phenomena is almost invariably way off the mark. And usually rather distasteful to boot. Although yes, you have a good point. Criticism of Trump’s use of the Fascist handbook gets roundly mocked as a ‘hey these idiots are saying Trump is literally Hitler’ when it’s not the claim being made at all. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18366 Posts
On February 10 2022 17:47 Silvanel wrote: I wish people would stop comparing minor inconvincies to things done by Nazi/SS/gestapo. FFS noone is rounding up random citizens, putting them against wall and then executing. Those people have no idea what real persecution looks like. Then it's a good thing she didn't. She compared it to the infamous gazpacho police! She was probably referring to me, I often order the gazpacho in a restaurant, as it is often an easy way to judge the overall quality of the kitchen: it's fairly easy, but making it on the cheap leads to a very inferior flavor, and adding your own flair can be spectacularly good, or just fall really flat. Also, do they serve just a plain gazpacho without any toppings? Do they go all out with the toppings hoping you won't notice the inferior gazpacho under a mountain of toppings? It's great to be the gazpacho police! | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18366 Posts
On February 10 2022 18:20 gobbledydook wrote: It's strange that a political body, using a political investigation to investigate whether criminal activity occurred and to arrest people for not complying is even considered acceptable. If it is criminal, have the FBI probe it. If it is political, don't expect the other side to lie down and take it. Maybe you should learn a bit more about how your own government works before spouting random drivel. https://www.senate.gov/about/powers-procedures/investigations.htm | ||
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EnDeR_
Spain2925 Posts
On February 10 2022 18:44 Acrofales wrote: Maybe you should learn a bit more about how your own government works before spouting random drivel. https://www.senate.gov/about/powers-procedures/investigations.htm The GOP was definitely more into investigations when they were about Benghazi. I think gobbledydook might be Australian, or at least that's what the location shows. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22463 Posts
On February 10 2022 10:07 Doc.Rivers wrote: They don't need to stick to their claim, they made their soundbite for their constituents that Fox can run on repeat. Then issuing a clarification does nothing when I would guess Fox isn't going to run that clarification.I'm not sure that McConnell's statement constitutes "backlash within the GOP," even if it generated a lot of headlines. The RNC immediately clarified what they actually meant after the NYT story, which really should settle things, because if they actually made the claim they would stick to it. Of course these days you have to word things very carefully because otherwise the partisan media will pounce and misrepresent it. They want to be seen defending their 'patriots' to Republican voters. That's how this always works. | ||
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gobbledydook
Australia2605 Posts
On February 10 2022 18:50 EnDeR_ wrote: The GOP was definitely more into investigations when they were about Benghazi. I think gobbledydook might be Australian, or at least that's what the location shows. The fact that this is how the US senate is set up doesn't mean it makes sense... | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Doc.Rivers
United States404 Posts
On February 10 2022 18:38 WombaT wrote: I like my analogies as anyone who’s a regular in this thread will know. 9/10 times though invocation of Nazism to compare phenomena is almost invariably way off the mark. And usually rather distasteful to boot. Although yes, you have a good point. Criticism of Trump’s use of the Fascist handbook gets roundly mocked as a ‘hey these idiots are saying Trump is literally Hitler’ when it’s not the claim being made at all. Well there were plenty of Trump is literally Hitler claims, in addition to the Trump is literally a fascist claims. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Doc.Rivers
United States404 Posts
On February 10 2022 23:08 JimmiC wrote: Question you asked about why people were worked up about Trump and his record keep but not Hilary's email server, and the quick answer is they are very different because the FBI got the server and was able to see exactly what was on it and if there were problems and we have no clue what Trump may have taken or worse destroyed. But even if we pretend they are the same have you considered the other half of your question. Republicans were furious for years, it was their major talking point for years, they are still mad. But not a peep about Trump? His is most certinaly worse and no one has an issue? you can claim partisanship works both ways and it does, but the degree's of ring kissing on the Rep side are crazy. The Dems occasionally boot people when they do shit, the Reps scream left wing conspiracy or completely ignore it. The Reps do not even pretend to hold their own accountable, they only get upset if someone in their party TRIES to hold someone in their party accountable. I think it's quite a stretch to say trumps boxes are much worse than Hillary's emails. Importantly the FBI only got ahold of her server by seizing it from her lawyer, and only after she and her private lawyers double-deleted (to prevent forensic recovery) about half of the emails. Prior to that, they had even tried to prevent full review of the emails they didn't delete, by producing only redacted copies to the State department, in paper form. We all know the purpose of the email server was to dodge open records laws. The same server had previously been used by Bill, who once said publicly that he used it for that purpose. That said I will certainly admit that the epic hypocrisy on this issue is on both sides the aisle. And when it comes to Presidents (as opposed to expendable people), neither party holds their own accountable. It does appear that the story about Trump's handling of documents is being treated as a major story in the dem-allied media sector. I think the reason is that the Presidential Records Act provides that violators can be barred from public office. So this is viewed not only as another avenue to put Trump in jail, but also to keep him from running again. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46212 Posts
On February 10 2022 23:31 Doc.Rivers wrote: It does appear that the story about Trump's handling of documents is being treated as a major story in the dem-allied media sector. I think the reason is that the Presidential Records Act provides that violators can be barred from public office. So this is viewed not only as another avenue to put Trump in jail, but also to keep him from running again. Isn't it a crime to destroy federal documents and records though, even if a president does it? If Trump is committing crimes, especially while in office, then of course it's a "major story". "The bottom line here is simple. Destroying or stealing documents belonging to the United States government is a crime. Destroying or stealing documents to cover up another crime, or activity that may be under investigation, is also a crime. Lying about what happened to missing documents is yet another crime. A departing federal official may take personal property from the office but no more." https://www.justsecurity.org/73265/destroying-federal-documents-during-a-presidential-transition-is-a-federal-crime/ | ||
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Doc.Rivers
United States404 Posts
On February 10 2022 23:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Isn't it a crime to destroy federal documents and records though, even if a president does it? If Trump is committing crimes, especially while in office, then of course it's a "major story". "The bottom line here is simple. Destroying or stealing documents belonging to the United States government is a crime. Destroying or stealing documents to cover up another crime, or activity that may be under investigation, is also a crime. Lying about what happened to missing documents is yet another crime. A departing federal official may take personal property from the office but no more." https://www.justsecurity.org/73265/destroying-federal-documents-during-a-presidential-transition-is-a-federal-crime/ It may be a crime to mishandle and destroy documents, but due to the Hillary's Emails Precedent, it's a minor crime that presidents and presidential candidates should be able to get away with. No one who insisted that Hillary did nothing wrong with her email server can say with a straight face that Trump’s documents are a big deal. It's raw partisanship. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Doc.Rivers
United States404 Posts
On February 11 2022 00:19 JimmiC wrote: So are you and the rest of the Republican base furious about Trump? Because you guys sure were (and are about Hilary). And you would think if this was a huge deal, and one of the main voices for it being a big deal wouldn't do it but worse (or same if you want). Constantly tear up documents, take them away and so on. Trump can plead ignorance a lot because he is very ignorant but on this one how can he? He and his cronies spent years explaining why it was so bad what she did. Then when he goes and does it everyone who wanted her hanged is now not upset at all? If anything the Dems are underplaying this, at least until they know more about the documents, which makes sense given how they reacted to Hilary. The blind partisanship is you. You should be calling for Trumps hanging and calling him out for his treasonous behavior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy There was also president with Hilary, no one had a server before but many had personal email accounts they used. Like I said, "the epic hypocrisy on this issue is on both sides the aisle." You are insisting that Hillary's emails and Trump’s boxes are meaningfully distinguishable, but it's just not the case. Both were attempts to dodge open records laws. By the way, the dems are definitely not underplaying this. Just take a gander on Twitter or cable news. It is the "lock him up" story of the week. The solution here is that Hillary's emails and Trump’s boxes should cancel each other out. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
If you really want this to be even, we'll drop it after about 2 years of news cycles dominated by it. Sound good? There's your "both sides". | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On February 11 2022 00:36 Doc.Rivers wrote: Like I said, "the epic hypocrisy on this issue is on both sides the aisle." You are insisting that Hillary's emails and Trump’s boxes are meaningfully distinguishable, but it's just not the case. Both were attempts to dodge open records laws. By the way, the dems are definitely not underplaying this. Just take a gander on Twitter or cable news. It is the "lock him up" story of the week. The solution here is that Hillary's emails and Trump’s boxes should cancel each other out. That's not how this works. | ||
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