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On December 23 2021 02:54 Gorsameth wrote:
The election is in November right? So any short extension is just going to make it fresher in peoples minds that the Democrats are waffling on the issue. Which is a bad thing.
Why on earth would you not push this past the election right away.
It’s just not happening this year. Your comment regarding November is exactly right. Biden has a 33% approval rating among young people. That means losing both senate and house without question. He likely won’t win in 2024.
As it stands, if child tax credit goes away and student loans come back, Trump was 100% better for the lower and middle class. And by a long shot, not even close.
That being said, student loans simply aren’t coming back. I dunno who on Biden’s team legitimately wants them back, but that person apparently has a lot of power. It took an enormous amount of backlash to get them extended again. May? People down like $3000 going into midterms? It’s laughable. It won’t start before November
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On December 23 2021 04:05 JimmiC wrote:
They never will because it benefits them, but it would be great if there was limits or if it was not tax deductible. Also the pacs and super pacs need to go. There is so much obvious toxic shit that is normalized in the US. This the "news", healthcare, pharma, guns, death penalty, abortion, so on. It is pretty crazy. Once you let money in the system, its extremely difficulty to get it back out.
America can't even muster the collective force to stop children from being shot in school. How on earth are they going to band together to get money out of politics?
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On December 23 2021 04:43 Mohdoo wrote:
That being said, student loans simply aren’t coming back. I dunno who on Biden’s team legitimately wants them back, but that person apparently has a lot of power. It took an enormous amount of backlash to get them extended again. May? People down like $3000 going into midterms? It’s laughable. It won’t start before November
I suppose it's $100 (?) billion dollars a year in the government budget they have to pull out of somewhere else. But that's a smaller sum of money than the major Boomer Enrichment Funds that the government is losing money on (e.g. Medicare and Social Security), so it's strange that this becomes "a priority." Maybe it's just an easy target or loan forgiveness is unpalatable to the kind of people who are likely to be in office?
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On December 23 2021 05:56 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2021 04:43 Mohdoo wrote:
That being said, student loans simply aren’t coming back. I dunno who on Biden’s team legitimately wants them back, but that person apparently has a lot of power. It took an enormous amount of backlash to get them extended again. May? People down like $3000 going into midterms? It’s laughable. It won’t start before November I suppose it's $100 (?) billion dollars a year in the government budget they have to pull out of somewhere else. But that's a smaller sum of money than the major Boomer Enrichment Funds that the government is losing money on (e.g. Medicare and Social Security), so it's strange that this becomes "a priority." Maybe it's just an easy target or loan forgiveness is unpalatable to the kind of people who are likely to be in office?
I think they are just really bummed about the fact that Trump created an enormous entitlement that they are having to manage and justify now. But it is really funny because, just like social security, there is now an enormous population of people who will stay home if their entitlement is touched.
I am definitely not the only one who will immediately shred my ballot if student loans turn back on. This is way too much money for some people. 6 years ago, my student loan payments were basically crippling when I first graduated and got my out of school job. They are desperately trying to find a way to have this not just be another entitlement. I think they are out of touch and it is way too late.
IMO the fact remains May is an even worse situation than February. Imagine 6 months of losing $400 per month and then being asked to vote for that party. Absolutely hilarious. They already have polls showing 33% approval among young folks.
This is becoming a matter of simple math.They can't win if student loans resume. That is why they are trying to somehow convince people student loans turning back on is ok. That's why we were getting multiple emails per week. They are trying to convince us they don't owe it to us and it isn't working.
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Its going to become a serious campaign point for all the representatives to throw around on the election trail. I'm not ashamed to admit if they dangle the carrot in front of me of forgiving student loans that I'll go running after it like I'm in the peanuts.
Republicans are going to have to tell a lot of young professionals and middle class people with young families that they want them to pay an extra few hundred a month. Hell I'd be shocked if some democrats don't turn student loan pausing into a "tax cut for the middle class".
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On December 23 2021 07:01 Sermokala wrote:
Its going to become a serious campaign point for all the representatives to throw around on the election trail. I'm not ashamed to admit if they dangle the carrot in front of me of forgiving student loans that I'll go running after it like I'm in the peanuts.
Republicans are going to have to tell a lot of young professionals and middle class people with young families that they want them to pay an extra few hundred a month. Hell I'd be shocked if some democrats don't turn student loan pausing into a "tax cut for the middle class".
It really is just a middle class tax cut. No upper class people have student loans. I have a few friends who are upper middle class. Their parents made them take student loans as a boot strap thing, then once they graduated, they just paid the entire balance. Most upper class families aren't even bothering with the theater. This whole idea of "student loan forgiveness is just free money for rich people" is insanely stupid and not real. The real issue is that while college graduates, on average, make more than non-college educated folks, its more like "decent rather than shitty". It isn't that non college educated people are doing ok and the college people are doing great. Everyone is suffering compared to 30 years ago.
For a 2 parent household, assuming just 1 baby, assuming $200 per month loans, we are talking a difference of $700 per month between Trump/Biden May 1. I'm not a big history buff, but was there ever a time that happened? Families actually being down $700 per month is just laughably bad policy. Imagine getting to the end of a year and realizing you would have had another $8400 in your checking account if Trump was president.
That's part of why this all feels like a silly topic. Its not happening. Loans aren't coming back. Child tax credit is coming back, somehow, some way. Democrats cease to be a party if either of these things go away. Student loans most extremely, but both would likely be the death of democrats in 2022.
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The irony of setting the presumption that student loans will need to be repaid starting may day is pretty funny in it's own right no matter what you think.
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Here's what Biden should do: "Student loan payments are hereby frozen until May 1, 2800". Yes, 700 years. Biden can extend it, the question is how long. Just make it an incredibly long time.
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I would think that a lot fiscal responsibility boomers actually want loan payments to resume, and they are quite a big voting bloc aren't they?
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On December 23 2021 08:36 Starlightsun wrote:
I would think that a lot fiscal responsibility boomers actually want loan payments to resume, and they are quite a big voting bloc aren't they?
It is kind of moot. Biden has a 33% approval rating with young people. That is a full stop end to the party. Selling "stimulus/tax cut" to boomers is easier than losing young voters. It truly is the death of the party if Biden can't improve 33%.
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On December 23 2021 08:36 Starlightsun wrote:
I would think that a lot fiscal responsibility boomers actually want loan payments to resume, and they are quite a big voting bloc aren't they? Fiscal responsibility is a joke that doesn't exist in US politics. its something you shout at the other side when they are in charge and ignore when you make the rules.
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On December 23 2021 08:57 JimmiC wrote:
They will likely push it just past the election with the promise of further delays after or passing the got potato. This still screms political theater to me. What is gained by keeping this in peoples mind that you waited last minute and have to have this annoying stress and uncertainty again in May compared to saying "extended until 2023" and having it out of the public conscience?
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On December 23 2021 08:48 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2021 08:36 Starlightsun wrote:
I would think that a lot fiscal responsibility boomers actually want loan payments to resume, and they are quite a big voting bloc aren't they? Fiscal responsibility is a joke that doesn't exist in US politics. its something you shout at the other side when they are in charge and ignore when you make the rules.
Nevertheless it is a big talking point, popular among older voters especially. Details, reality do not matter so much as what can fit into 10 seconds of ad slogan. A lot of people will be alienated by resuming loan payments, but how many might view it positively if you spin it as, "The debt is too big, people should pay what they owe. You hardworking boomers did it, why can't this generation?"
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On December 23 2021 04:43 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2021 02:54 Gorsameth wrote:
The election is in November right? So any short extension is just going to make it fresher in peoples minds that the Democrats are waffling on the issue. Which is a bad thing.
Why on earth would you not push this past the election right away. It’s just not happening this year. Your comment regarding November is exactly right. Biden has a 33% approval rating among young people. That means losing both senate and house without question. He likely won’t win in 2024. As it stands, if child tax credit goes away and student loans come back, Trump was 100% better for the lower and middle class. And by a long shot, not even close. That being said, student loans simply aren’t coming back. I dunno who on Biden’s team legitimately wants them back, but that person apparently has a lot of power. It took an enormous amount of backlash to get them extended again. May? People down like $3000 going into midterms? It’s laughable. It won’t start before November
Id wager Joe "I have no empathy for the plight of younger people" Biden himself is the one keen on actually restarting the loans. Id imagine its advisors around him telling him its political suicide that are trying to get him to cut that shit out.
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Northern Ireland26760 Posts
Older folks might be annoyed by a student loan amnesty, or a freeze. Younger folks will be personally fucked and impacted by a resumption.
The former category are much more likely to get over it than the latter, one is an ideological/principled gripe, the other is a ‘paying my bills’ gripe.
I still think some joined up thinking on proper reform of the sector is needed in conjunction with lowering loan burdens, and in many other ways.
But I mean nobody is proposing that either, To my knowledge there’s nothing considered and interesting in that domain on the table .
In the absence of a sensible root and branch education reform, the fuck do Dems think is going to happen here?
You need to go to college for, some reason for all sorts of jobs, but the payoff often isn’t great and the college bar to simple jobs is silly, and also we’ll leave you liable for huge loans for wanting to get the college thing to do jobs that don’t need it.
We won’t tackle either the wonkiness in that, but also we won’t do the simple thing in freezing loans for the forseeable
If they actually do go down that route, it’s absolute political suicide
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It does seem like a grenade that they're willing to hold onto until the republicans can be blamed for it.
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On December 23 2021 08:44 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2021 08:36 Starlightsun wrote:
I would think that a lot fiscal responsibility boomers actually want loan payments to resume, and they are quite a big voting bloc aren't they? It is kind of moot. Biden has a 33% approval rating with young people. That is a full stop end to the party. Selling "stimulus/tax cut" to boomers is easier than losing young voters. It truly is the death of the party if Biden can't improve 33%.
Biden isn't going to meaningfully improve his terrible outlook with young voters.
The best plan dems could go with is for Biden to rip the bandaid off (if they have to, after 2022), and prepare to put forward a non-Biden (and non-Harris) candidate for 2024.
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On December 23 2021 13:54 Dromar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2021 08:44 Mohdoo wrote:On December 23 2021 08:36 Starlightsun wrote:
I would think that a lot fiscal responsibility boomers actually want loan payments to resume, and they are quite a big voting bloc aren't they? It is kind of moot. Biden has a 33% approval rating with young people. That is a full stop end to the party. Selling "stimulus/tax cut" to boomers is easier than losing young voters. It truly is the death of the party if Biden can't improve 33%. Biden isn't going to meaningfully improve his terrible outlook with young voters. The best plan dems could go with is for Biden to rip the bandaid off (if they have to, after 2022), and prepare to put forward a non-Biden (and non-Harris) candidate for 2024.
That plan sounds like taking the L for 2022 and 2024 with extra steps.
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