Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On November 04 2021 13:21 LegalLord wrote: This whole situation reminds me a lot of the intelligent design controversy in the early 2000s with a very similar set of conditions - politically motivated changes to the school curriculum, and parents similarly up in arms about it. I suspect a lot of the people talking about how dumb parents are would be on the other side of that argument when the addition of interest is different. Parents don't like schools propagandizing, I don't see why that's surprising or even a bad thing.
Kind of related, do people see the whole thing about removing gifted & talented programs due to racial imbalance a part of the CRT debate, or just vaguely related? It came up from the same people in the same races, and has a real "what the hfil" vibe to it. Seems a real dumb hill to die on.
Public (and private) school is largely propaganda. Parents absolutely want schools propagandizing their children, they just want the propaganda they like. This is typically white supremacist, capitalist, and imperialist propaganda.
Columbus has been a popular example of this (EDIT: Thanksgiving is a big and timely one). Washington's "I cannot tell a lie" myth is still wedged in the US psyche as another. US history, economics, civics, etc. All propaganda literally intended to enroll the populace into an existing political framework.
One that starts to fall apart rather quickly upon sincere examination of the white supremacist, capitalist, imperialist underpinnings imo.
On November 04 2021 13:35 GreenHorizons wrote: Parents absolutely want schools propagandizing their children, they just want the propaganda they like.
Yeah, I realized after I wrote it that it would have been more fair to say "parents don't want schools propagandizing their children with a belief system they don't agree with."
On November 04 2021 13:21 LegalLord wrote: This whole situation reminds me a lot of the intelligent design controversy in the early 2000s with a very similar set of conditions - politically motivated changes to the school curriculum, and parents similarly up in arms about it. I suspect a lot of the people talking about how dumb parents are would be on the other side of that argument when the addition of interest is different. Parents don't like schools propagandizing, I don't see why that's surprising or even a bad thing.
Kind of related, do people see the whole thing about removing gifted & talented programs due to racial imbalance a part of the CRT debate, or just vaguely related? It came up from the same people in the same races, and has a real "what the hfil" vibe to it. Seems a real dumb hill to die on.
Public (and private) school is largely propaganda. Parents absolutely want schools propagandizing their children, they just want the propaganda they like. This is typically white supremacist, capitalist, and imperialist propaganda.
Columbus has been a popular example of this. Washington's "I cannot tell a lie" myth is still wedged in the US psyche as another. US history, economics, civics, etc. All propaganda literally intended to enroll the populace into an existing political framework.
One that starts to fall apart rather quickly upon sincere examination of the white supremacist, capitalist, imperialist underpinnings imo.
Everything is propaganda if its being forced upon the schools to some extent.
It would be great if US schools taught colonization and the civil war from an objective view of things. But unfortunately people like simpler answers like, "Colonization bad. Natives good." or "Manifest Destiny good, Natives bad and uncivilized."
On November 04 2021 13:51 Mohdoo wrote: Progressives getting dumpstered in mayor races. Even Seattle. And yet Reddit is like “see this is all Manchin’s fault”.
Hopefully Progressives can escape the delusion that all their woes are due to the orange boogeyman and white supremacy and accept the reality that even liberals are starting to realize that some of their ideas suck. I moved to the San Francisco Bay Area a couple years ago and the SF school board members and DA are also facing recall elections. It's not because there are so many MAGA rednecks in San Francisco, it's because they are turning San Francisco into a shithole.
The SF DA is so woke that his solution to mass incarceration and racial inequities is to just stop prosecuting people. He prosecutes a fraction of the cases brought to him compared to DAs in neighboring counties. As a result crime is basically legal in SF. Thieves smash car windows in broad daylight to steal from tourists. I've had my car broken into twice since moving here. People go into stores and fill up garbage bags worth of stuff and just walk out the door. Walgreens closed down several of its stores due to shoplifting. Safeway and Target reduce its store hours due to shoplifting. There's a shortage of autoglass to replace all the smashed car windows.
Meanwhile the mayor and those on the left try to gaslight everyone with their propaganda. Insisting that Walgreens are only closing stores because the city is oversaturated with them and not because of shoplifting. When anti-asian Hate crimes surged they blamed it on white supremacy. Because there are just soooo many white supremacists in SF and Oakland... /sarcasm.
Homelessness is rampant, drug abuse is rampant. Income inequality is rampant. People are fleeing the city in record numbers. Don't even get me started on some of the ridiculous shit the SF school board was doing during the pandemic instead of trying to figure out how to get kids back into classrooms.
The left needs to stop trying to please the loud twitter crowd that doesn't even represent the electorate. Wokeism, critical race theory, defund the police, etc. These ideas are not popular and for good reason.
On November 04 2021 13:51 Mohdoo wrote: Progressives getting dumpstered in mayor races. Even Seattle. And yet Reddit is like “see this is all Manchin’s fault”.
Hopefully Progressives can escape the delusion that all their woes are due to the orange boogeyman and white supremacy and accept the reality that even liberals are starting to realize that some of their ideas suck. I moved to the San Francisco Bay Area a couple years ago and the SF school board members and DA are also facing recall elections. It's not because there are so many MAGA rednecks in San Francisco, it's because they are turning San Francisco into a shithole.
The SF DA is so woke that his solution to mass incarceration and racial inequities is to just stop prosecuting people. He prosecutes a fraction of the cases brought to him compared to DAs in neighboring counties. As a result crime is basically legal in SF. Thieves smash car windows in broad daylight to steal from tourists. I've had my car broken into twice since moving here. People go into stores and fill up garbage bags worth of stuff and just walk out the door. Walgreens closed down several of its stores due to shoplifting. Safeway and Target reduce its store hours due to shoplifting. There's a shortage of autoglass to replace all the smashed car windows.
Meanwhile the mayor and those on the left try to gaslight everyone with their propaganda. Insisting that Walgreens are only closing stores because the city is oversaturated with them and not because of shoplifting. When anti-asian Hate crimes surged they blamed it on white supremacy. Because there are just soooo many white supremacists in SF and Oakland... /sarcasm.
Homelessness is rampant, drug abuse is rampant. Income inequality is rampant. People are fleeing the city in record numbers. Don't even get me started on some of the ridiculous shit the SF school board was doing during the pandemic instead of trying to figure out how to get kids back into classrooms.
The left needs to stop trying to please the loud twitter crowd that doesn't even represent the electorate. Wokeism, critical race theory, defund the police, etc. These ideas are not popular and for good reason.
What is your theory on the anti-asian hate crime? Also any sources?
One of the SF school board members facing recall referred to Asian-Americans as house-n****rs that use white supremacist thinking to assimilate and get ahead.
Also what specifically do you want a source for? Everything I posted can be easily found with simple Google searches but I am happy to provide sources if needed
On November 04 2021 13:48 Husyelt wrote: Everything is propaganda if its being forced upon the schools to some extent.
Disagreed. To be propaganda requires it be false, or at the very least misleading.
It can be true, but only show one perspective. You can teach children all of the great WW2 battles Americans fought, and not show the war crimes, or vice versa. The same for any point in history.
On November 04 2021 13:51 Mohdoo wrote: Progressives getting dumpstered in mayor races. Even Seattle. And yet Reddit is like “see this is all Manchin’s fault”.
Hopefully Progressives can escape the delusion that all their woes are due to the orange boogeyman and white supremacy and accept the reality that even liberals are starting to realize that some of their ideas suck. I moved to the San Francisco Bay Area a couple years ago and the SF school board members and DA are also facing recall elections. It's not because there are so many MAGA rednecks in San Francisco, it's because they are turning San Francisco into a shithole.
The SF DA is so woke that his solution to mass incarceration and racial inequities is to just stop prosecuting people. He prosecutes a fraction of the cases brought to him compared to DAs in neighboring counties. As a result crime is basically legal in SF. Thieves smash car windows in broad daylight to steal from tourists. I've had my car broken into twice since moving here. People go into stores and fill up garbage bags worth of stuff and just walk out the door. Walgreens closed down several of its stores due to shoplifting. Safeway and Target reduce its store hours due to shoplifting. There's a shortage of autoglass to replace all the smashed car windows.
Meanwhile the mayor and those on the left try to gaslight everyone with their propaganda. Insisting that Walgreens are only closing stores because the city is oversaturated with them and not because of shoplifting. When anti-asian Hate crimes surged they blamed it on white supremacy. Because there are just soooo many white supremacists in SF and Oakland... /sarcasm.
Homelessness is rampant, drug abuse is rampant. Income inequality is rampant. People are fleeing the city in record numbers. Don't even get me started on some of the ridiculous shit the SF school board was doing during the pandemic instead of trying to figure out how to get kids back into classrooms.
The left needs to stop trying to please the loud twitter crowd that doesn't even represent the electorate. Wokeism, critical race theory, defund the police, etc. These ideas are not popular and for good reason.
I cant speak for San Francisco but I am starting to agree with this idea that we are playing to too many Niche issues that only impact small amounts of the population. Everyone should be treated equally, not have to worry about losing their housing due to being lgbtq etc but theres way too much focus on some of this stuff when we have much bigger problems to tackle (climate change, infastructure, healthcare, etc)
On November 04 2021 13:51 Mohdoo wrote: Progressives getting dumpstered in mayor races. Even Seattle. And yet Reddit is like “see this is all Manchin’s fault”.
Progressives seem to be unable to realise they are a minority in America despite consistently failing to achieve a majority.
On November 04 2021 02:44 Mohdoo wrote: When we are at a point where we are using spoiler tags to reply to different people, I think double posting is by far preferred. I'm not a mod, but I imagine they would agree. Replying to giant posts with spoiler tags is a disaster.
As someone who mostly browses and posts TL on a phone it is especially nightmarish to do.
On November 04 2021 13:51 Mohdoo wrote: Progressives getting dumpstered in mayor races. Even Seattle. And yet Reddit is like “see this is all Manchin’s fault”.
Progressives seem to be unable to realise they are a minority in America despite consistently failing to achieve a majority.
I’m not sure this is actually the case, at least within the confines of this particular thread. The wider world is so full of craziness that I’m sure your characterisation is absolutely plausible.
What I do think causes the frustration is that policy that starts to enter progressive territory, and if passed and effective would bolster the progressive case and give the means to bring people around, doesn’t get passed.
Policies that actually do have widespread support even outside of avowed progressives in terms of the wider populace.
Conversely, other minority positions get plenty of traction, I mean is it the majority’s desire to outright ban abortions? Well hey we’ll do it in various places regardless.
Most progressives I know view our cohort as a pretty sizeable minority faction, with some growth potential but one that doesn’t get even the breadcrumbs that other political factions that may be even smaller get.
On November 04 2021 13:51 Mohdoo wrote: Progressives getting dumpstered in mayor races. Even Seattle. And yet Reddit is like “see this is all Manchin’s fault”.
Hopefully Progressives can escape the delusion that all their woes are due to the orange boogeyman and white supremacy and accept the reality that even liberals are starting to realize that some of their ideas suck. I moved to the San Francisco Bay Area a couple years ago and the SF school board members and DA are also facing recall elections. It's not because there are so many MAGA rednecks in San Francisco, it's because they are turning San Francisco into a shithole.
The SF DA is so woke that his solution to mass incarceration and racial inequities is to just stop prosecuting people. He prosecutes a fraction of the cases brought to him compared to DAs in neighboring counties. As a result crime is basically legal in SF. Thieves smash car windows in broad daylight to steal from tourists. I've had my car broken into twice since moving here. People go into stores and fill up garbage bags worth of stuff and just walk out the door. Walgreens closed down several of its stores due to shoplifting. Safeway and Target reduce its store hours due to shoplifting. There's a shortage of autoglass to replace all the smashed car windows.
Meanwhile the mayor and those on the left try to gaslight everyone with their propaganda. Insisting that Walgreens are only closing stores because the city is oversaturated with them and not because of shoplifting. When anti-asian Hate crimes surged they blamed it on white supremacy. Because there are just soooo many white supremacists in SF and Oakland... /sarcasm.
Homelessness is rampant, drug abuse is rampant. Income inequality is rampant. People are fleeing the city in record numbers. Don't even get me started on some of the ridiculous shit the SF school board was doing during the pandemic instead of trying to figure out how to get kids back into classrooms.
The left needs to stop trying to please the loud twitter crowd that doesn't even represent the electorate. Wokeism, critical race theory, defund the police, etc. These ideas are not popular and for good reason.
I cant speak for San Francisco but I am starting to agree with this idea that we are playing to too many Niche issues that only impact small amounts of the population. Everyone should be treated equally, not have to worry about losing their housing due to being lgbtq etc but theres way too much focus on some of this stuff when we have much bigger problems to tackle (climate change, infastructure, healthcare, etc)
Democrats aren't able or interested in truly addressing climate change, infrastructure, wages, or healthcare. The only thing they can do is try to play niche social issues.
EDIT: Sorry, fixed, they can only try to play niche social issues, they're clearly not even capable of protecting things like women's right to an abortion as we're likely to find out next month.
On November 04 2021 13:51 Mohdoo wrote: Progressives getting dumpstered in mayor races. Even Seattle. And yet Reddit is like “see this is all Manchin’s fault”.
Progressives seem to be unable to realise they are a minority in America despite consistently failing to achieve a majority.
I’m not sure this is actually the case, at least within the confines of this particular thread. The wider world is so full of craziness that I’m sure your characterisation is absolutely plausible.
What I do think causes the frustration is that policy that starts to enter progressive territory, and if passed and effective would bolster the progressive case and give the means to bring people around, doesn’t get passed.
Policies that actually do have widespread support even outside of avowed progressives in terms of the wider populace.
Conversely, other minority positions get plenty of traction, I mean is it the majority’s desire to outright ban abortions? Well hey we’ll do it in various places regardless.
Most progressives I know view our cohort as a pretty sizeable minority faction, with some growth potential but one that doesn’t get even the breadcrumbs that other political factions that may be even smaller get.
I often think it is a "branding" and marketing issue. Instead of realizing that words like Communism or phrases like abolish the police are inflammatory and wildly unpopular, they continue to get used and some people wear it like a badge of honor that they are that way. If they talked about the specific policy or the under lying reasons they would be a lot more popular. But that the opponents of change often use the terms to riles up their own base much more effectively than the people who want the change is not a good sign.
I suspect there are a lot of people who be completely down with many of the policies around policing and so on that are popular and effective in Scandinavia and Western Europe and so on that are very against Abolishing or Defunding the police. Both because of the wording and the current situation with violence and so on. This is also why gradual change is possible whereas you can't instantly go to that system because frankly there is just way to many games and violence in the culture. If you can show the effectiveness of policy a you can get to b and so on.
When you hear lots of Trump supporters talk they often do want progressive policy, it is just that progressives refuse to talk to them in language that they will listen too. More often then not the current approach of big words and dramatic slogans leads to the opposite of the intended outcome.
Can you please give some examples of progressive policies that Trump supporters want?
“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said in an interview with The Washington Post. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”
On November 04 2021 13:51 Mohdoo wrote: Progressives getting dumpstered in mayor races. Even Seattle. And yet Reddit is like “see this is all Manchin’s fault”.
Hopefully Progressives can escape the delusion that all their woes are due to the orange boogeyman and white supremacy and accept the reality that even liberals are starting to realize that some of their ideas suck. I moved to the San Francisco Bay Area a couple years ago and the SF school board members and DA are also facing recall elections. It's not because there are so many MAGA rednecks in San Francisco, it's because they are turning San Francisco into a shithole.
The SF DA is so woke that his solution to mass incarceration and racial inequities is to just stop prosecuting people. He prosecutes a fraction of the cases brought to him compared to DAs in neighboring counties. As a result crime is basically legal in SF. Thieves smash car windows in broad daylight to steal from tourists. I've had my car broken into twice since moving here. People go into stores and fill up garbage bags worth of stuff and just walk out the door. Walgreens closed down several of its stores due to shoplifting. Safeway and Target reduce its store hours due to shoplifting. There's a shortage of autoglass to replace all the smashed car windows.
Meanwhile the mayor and those on the left try to gaslight everyone with their propaganda. Insisting that Walgreens are only closing stores because the city is oversaturated with them and not because of shoplifting. When anti-asian Hate crimes surged they blamed it on white supremacy. Because there are just soooo many white supremacists in SF and Oakland... /sarcasm.
Homelessness is rampant, drug abuse is rampant. Income inequality is rampant. People are fleeing the city in record numbers. Don't even get me started on some of the ridiculous shit the SF school board was doing during the pandemic instead of trying to figure out how to get kids back into classrooms.
The left needs to stop trying to please the loud twitter crowd that doesn't even represent the electorate. Wokeism, critical race theory, defund the police, etc. These ideas are not popular and for good reason.
What is your theory on the anti-asian hate crime? Also any sources?
One of the SF school board members facing recall referred to Asian-Americans as house-n****rs that use white supremacist thinking to assimilate and get ahead.
Also what specifically do you want a source for? Everything I posted can be easily found with simple Google searches but I am happy to provide sources if needed
Yes post the articles from google searches. It is within the first 3 rules of the thread, when you are saying things that are not common knowledge you source them it saves all sorts of fighting and back and forths, it also adds a lot of clarity to what is meant.
Show, don't tell, and listen. This one sounds simple enough, but political discussions on TL suffer from an ignorance of this cliché and oftentimes devolve accordingly. There is a huge difference between saying “Iran is a bloodthirsty despotic state” and showing how Iran could be considered bloodthirsty given particular evidence. If you can't tell the difference, don't bother posting. Furthermore, if you are here to simply pontificate, please do so elsewhere. The entire point of a forum such as TL is to foster communication, and posters who seek only to talk at others instead of with them will be ignored.
2. No arguments in absentia. In other words, do not argue using language that presumes conclusions that not everyone might share. If you think religion is hogwash, then intelligently and deliberately point out how you have come to this conclusion. Do not simply say “religion is garbage”, for it makes you look like a presumptuous fool and it degrades the entire conversation. If every poster attempted to be less unequivocal and more expository, the world of TL would be a better place.
3. Sources: A common sense approach. We all know that the strictures of an online text based communication platform make certain sorts of evidential back and forth rather difficult to perform correctly. In keeping with this, I would ask that everyone simply use their heads. Wikipedia, contrary to some belief, is a good source for most things, though feel free to dispute Wiki's page specific sourcing rigor if you find error. Feel free to cite both standard and non-standard news sites and op-ed journalism; be ready, though, for challenges and be prepared to put the ideas of your source material into your own words. We don't need or want Fox News or Huff Post parrots.
4. Keep the hyperbole to a dull roar. Because I just love how that was originally worded.
5. Be evocative, not mean. Bashing will not be tolerated; well conceived arguments that reveal the error in your opposition's ways will be.
In 2020, SFPD presented 6,333 felonies to Boudin’s office. Contrast that with neighboring Alameda County, where 6,331 felony cases were presented, resulting in 1,413 convictions. Alameda dismissed only 11.4 percent of cases, while San Francisco’s dismissal rate was 40 percent.
Take the case of Zion Young. He was charged with 11 firearms felonies, which Boudin reduced to one misdemeanor and released him on an ankle monitor. Less than three months later, Young shot and killed 19-year-old Kelvin Chew, a student out for a walk in his Portola District neighborhood, in a botched robbery attempt.
Net exits from San Francisco increased by 649% when California Policy Lab looked at data from the end of March 2020 to the end of the year, compared to the same period one year earlier.
But the research published Thursday shows the county is alone in this mass exodus compared to the rest of California.
Overdoses Have Killed More Than Three Times as Many People as COVID-19 in San Francisco
You could also just go on Youtube and TikTok and see the dozens of videos of people in San Francisco breaking into cars in broad daylight, stealing catalytic converters from cars, or walking into drug stores and filling up garbage bags worth of merchandise and walking out the door unimpeded.
EPT
