|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
Judging from how Murphy is struggling for re-election and a slate of other lost races like the one for PA's Supreme Court seat and local school boards, I don't think this was entirely a failure of McAuliffe to respond adequately to local issues (I'm sure it was very crucial though). I would think more nationalized, salient issues like inflation of groceries and gas, exhaustion with COVID restrictions, CRT and education, and Biden's down in the dumps approval took their toll on Democrats across the country.
It also seems that Trump and 1/6 is largely irrelevant to voters and the GOP can still enthuse voters without him on a ticket, despite some theories that Trump would be the main driving force for Republican voters. I'd also be watching how Democratic moderates act, because it could be an impetus to shut down BBB. They can point to the VA loss as a sign that people are deeply concerned about inflation and spending, so another $1.75 trillion is unwise. Or they'll see that Biden lacks a popular mandate and try to distance themselves from him and his agenda.
|
On November 03 2021 23:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Judging from how Murphy is struggling for re-election and a slate of other lost races like the one for PA's Supreme Court seat and local school boards, I don't think this was entirely a failure of McAuliffe to respond adequately to local issues (I'm sure it was very crucial though). I would think more nationalized, salient issues like inflation of groceries and gas, exhaustion with COVID restrictions, CRT and education, and Biden's down in the dumps approval took their toll on Democrats across the country.
It also seems that Trump and 1/6 is largely irrelevant to voters and the GOP can still enthuse voters without him on a ticket, despite some theories that Trump would be the main driving force for Republican voters. I'd also be watching how Democratic moderates act, because it could be an impetus to shut down BBB. They can point to the VA loss as a sign that people are deeply concerned about inflation and spending, so another $1.75 trillion is unwise. Or they'll see that Biden lacks a popular mandate and try to distance themselves from him and his agenda.
CRT isn't a salient issue. The overwhelming majority of people that are against it don't even know what it's about.
All republicans need to do is watch whatever nonsense Trump is complaining about and run with that. As long as the cult exists they can court them by proxy.
|
On November 03 2021 23:09 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2021 23:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Judging from how Murphy is struggling for re-election and a slate of other lost races like the one for PA's Supreme Court seat and local school boards, I don't think this was entirely a failure of McAuliffe to respond adequately to local issues (I'm sure it was very crucial though). I would think more nationalized, salient issues like inflation of groceries and gas, exhaustion with COVID restrictions, CRT and education, and Biden's down in the dumps approval took their toll on Democrats across the country.
It also seems that Trump and 1/6 is largely irrelevant to voters and the GOP can still enthuse voters without him on a ticket, despite some theories that Trump would be the main driving force for Republican voters. I'd also be watching how Democratic moderates act, because it could be an impetus to shut down BBB. They can point to the VA loss as a sign that people are deeply concerned about inflation and spending, so another $1.75 trillion is unwise. Or they'll see that Biden lacks a popular mandate and try to distance themselves from him and his agenda. CRT isn't a salient issue. The overwhelming majority of people that are against it don't even know what it's about. All republicans need to do is watch whatever nonsense Trump is complaining about and run with that. As long as the cult exists they can court them by proxy.
At least one poll here from Fox shows 25% of Virginia voters said CRT was the "single most important factor" and 47% said an important factor. I wouldn't entirely discount it as a contributing factor to Youngkin's win/McAuliffe's loss, even though I also think it's an inane moral panic more than an actual problem.
I might be contradicting myself a bit because VA was seen as the ground zero for the local CRT and education issue, but I also believe it was a debated issue across many school boards, hence why I called it nationalized.
|
On November 03 2021 23:09 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2021 23:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Judging from how Murphy is struggling for re-election and a slate of other lost races like the one for PA's Supreme Court seat and local school boards, I don't think this was entirely a failure of McAuliffe to respond adequately to local issues (I'm sure it was very crucial though). I would think more nationalized, salient issues like inflation of groceries and gas, exhaustion with COVID restrictions, CRT and education, and Biden's down in the dumps approval took their toll on Democrats across the country.
It also seems that Trump and 1/6 is largely irrelevant to voters and the GOP can still enthuse voters without him on a ticket, despite some theories that Trump would be the main driving force for Republican voters. I'd also be watching how Democratic moderates act, because it could be an impetus to shut down BBB. They can point to the VA loss as a sign that people are deeply concerned about inflation and spending, so another $1.75 trillion is unwise. Or they'll see that Biden lacks a popular mandate and try to distance themselves from him and his agenda. CRT isn't a salient issue. The overwhelming majority of people that are against it don't even know what it's about. All republicans need to do is watch whatever nonsense Trump is complaining about and run with that. As long as the cult exists they can court them by proxy.
It can both be the case that most people against CRT don't understand CRT *and also* believe it's very important to them. I think that's all PV was trying to say, that a good number of people feel that CRT is an important issue to consider when voting, regardless of whether or not they understand CRT.
|
On November 03 2021 23:09 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2021 23:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Judging from how Murphy is struggling for re-election and a slate of other lost races like the one for PA's Supreme Court seat and local school boards, I don't think this was entirely a failure of McAuliffe to respond adequately to local issues (I'm sure it was very crucial though). I would think more nationalized, salient issues like inflation of groceries and gas, exhaustion with COVID restrictions, CRT and education, and Biden's down in the dumps approval took their toll on Democrats across the country.
It also seems that Trump and 1/6 is largely irrelevant to voters and the GOP can still enthuse voters without him on a ticket, despite some theories that Trump would be the main driving force for Republican voters. I'd also be watching how Democratic moderates act, because it could be an impetus to shut down BBB. They can point to the VA loss as a sign that people are deeply concerned about inflation and spending, so another $1.75 trillion is unwise. Or they'll see that Biden lacks a popular mandate and try to distance themselves from him and his agenda. CRT isn't a salient issue. The overwhelming majority of people that are against it don't even know what it's about. All republicans need to do is watch whatever nonsense Trump is complaining about and run with that. As long as the cult exists they can court them by proxy.
They know it reflects poorly on white peoples and that’s where the conversation ends. Democrats need to totally ditch this whole thing. None of it matters if you lose.
From a bird's eye view, here is how I see the situation:
1) Bernie gets owned by Biden after Biden plays it safe and basically forms himself into the ideal democrat for white people
2) Biden goes on to defeat Trump by continuing to be the ideal democrat for white people
3) Progressives say "YES! FINALLY! NOW WE CAN HAVE SOCIALISM!" as if they are the ones who carried all the weight.
I'm your typical Oregon socialist, but when I have traveled outside of Oregon, it is very apparent that we leave in an ignorant, capitalist hellscape. I think it is possible that a lot of progressives have actually never been to these hellscapes like Virginia, Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan. They are truly revolting culturally. There's so much work to do that it feels like wondering why a 2 week old baby isn't walking yet.
|
On November 03 2021 23:20 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2021 23:09 Gahlo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Judging from how Murphy is struggling for re-election and a slate of other lost races like the one for PA's Supreme Court seat and local school boards, I don't think this was entirely a failure of McAuliffe to respond adequately to local issues (I'm sure it was very crucial though). I would think more nationalized, salient issues like inflation of groceries and gas, exhaustion with COVID restrictions, CRT and education, and Biden's down in the dumps approval took their toll on Democrats across the country.
It also seems that Trump and 1/6 is largely irrelevant to voters and the GOP can still enthuse voters without him on a ticket, despite some theories that Trump would be the main driving force for Republican voters. I'd also be watching how Democratic moderates act, because it could be an impetus to shut down BBB. They can point to the VA loss as a sign that people are deeply concerned about inflation and spending, so another $1.75 trillion is unwise. Or they'll see that Biden lacks a popular mandate and try to distance themselves from him and his agenda. CRT isn't a salient issue. The overwhelming majority of people that are against it don't even know what it's about. All republicans need to do is watch whatever nonsense Trump is complaining about and run with that. As long as the cult exists they can court them by proxy. They know it reflects poorly on white peoples and that’s where the conversation ends. Democrats need to totally ditch this whole thing. None of it matters if you lose. From a bird's eye view, here is how I see the situation: 1) Bernie gets owned by Biden after Biden plays it safe and basically forms himself into the ideal democrat for white people 2) Biden goes on to defeat Trump by continuing to be the ideal democrat for white people 3) Progressives say "YES! FINALLY! NOW WE CAN HAVE SOCIALISM!" as if they are the ones who carried all the weight.I'm your typical Oregon socialist, but when I have traveled outside of Oregon, it is very apparent that we leave in an ignorant, capitalist hellscape. I think it is possible that a lot of progressives have actually never been to these hellscapes like Virginia, Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan. They are truly revolting culturally. There's so much work to do that it feels like wondering why a 2 week old baby isn't walking yet.
All of my super-progressive friends were still ticked off when Biden won. Their reaction was overwhelmingly "I guess Biden isn't as bad as Trump, but we're not going to see enough positive change from Biden for me to be happy, because his agenda isn't progressive enough for me and Congress is still going to be stupid." I don't know a single person who thought Biden was going to be a moderate while campaigning but also a true progressive in the White House.
|
|
|
On November 03 2021 23:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2021 23:20 Mohdoo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:09 Gahlo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Judging from how Murphy is struggling for re-election and a slate of other lost races like the one for PA's Supreme Court seat and local school boards, I don't think this was entirely a failure of McAuliffe to respond adequately to local issues (I'm sure it was very crucial though). I would think more nationalized, salient issues like inflation of groceries and gas, exhaustion with COVID restrictions, CRT and education, and Biden's down in the dumps approval took their toll on Democrats across the country.
It also seems that Trump and 1/6 is largely irrelevant to voters and the GOP can still enthuse voters without him on a ticket, despite some theories that Trump would be the main driving force for Republican voters. I'd also be watching how Democratic moderates act, because it could be an impetus to shut down BBB. They can point to the VA loss as a sign that people are deeply concerned about inflation and spending, so another $1.75 trillion is unwise. Or they'll see that Biden lacks a popular mandate and try to distance themselves from him and his agenda. CRT isn't a salient issue. The overwhelming majority of people that are against it don't even know what it's about. All republicans need to do is watch whatever nonsense Trump is complaining about and run with that. As long as the cult exists they can court them by proxy. They know it reflects poorly on white peoples and that’s where the conversation ends. Democrats need to totally ditch this whole thing. None of it matters if you lose. From a bird's eye view, here is how I see the situation: 1) Bernie gets owned by Biden after Biden plays it safe and basically forms himself into the ideal democrat for white people 2) Biden goes on to defeat Trump by continuing to be the ideal democrat for white people 3) Progressives say "YES! FINALLY! NOW WE CAN HAVE SOCIALISM!" as if they are the ones who carried all the weight.I'm your typical Oregon socialist, but when I have traveled outside of Oregon, it is very apparent that we leave in an ignorant, capitalist hellscape. I think it is possible that a lot of progressives have actually never been to these hellscapes like Virginia, Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan. They are truly revolting culturally. There's so much work to do that it feels like wondering why a 2 week old baby isn't walking yet. All of my super-progressive friends were still ticked off when Biden won. Their reaction was overwhelmingly "I guess Biden isn't as bad as Trump, but we're not going to see enough positive change from Biden for me to be happy, because his agenda isn't progressive enough for me and Congress is still going to be stupid." I don't know a single person who thought Biden was going to be a moderate while campaigning but also a true progressive in the White House.
Well then I have no explanation for the kinds of things democrats are currently pushing for. My point/thought was that democrats felt empowered and like they had the high ground so to speak. They have felt like they are totally reasonable for pushing for CRT and various other things.
|
|
|
On November 03 2021 23:43 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2021 23:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 03 2021 23:20 Mohdoo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:09 Gahlo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Judging from how Murphy is struggling for re-election and a slate of other lost races like the one for PA's Supreme Court seat and local school boards, I don't think this was entirely a failure of McAuliffe to respond adequately to local issues (I'm sure it was very crucial though). I would think more nationalized, salient issues like inflation of groceries and gas, exhaustion with COVID restrictions, CRT and education, and Biden's down in the dumps approval took their toll on Democrats across the country.
It also seems that Trump and 1/6 is largely irrelevant to voters and the GOP can still enthuse voters without him on a ticket, despite some theories that Trump would be the main driving force for Republican voters. I'd also be watching how Democratic moderates act, because it could be an impetus to shut down BBB. They can point to the VA loss as a sign that people are deeply concerned about inflation and spending, so another $1.75 trillion is unwise. Or they'll see that Biden lacks a popular mandate and try to distance themselves from him and his agenda. CRT isn't a salient issue. The overwhelming majority of people that are against it don't even know what it's about. All republicans need to do is watch whatever nonsense Trump is complaining about and run with that. As long as the cult exists they can court them by proxy. They know it reflects poorly on white peoples and that’s where the conversation ends. Democrats need to totally ditch this whole thing. None of it matters if you lose. From a bird's eye view, here is how I see the situation: 1) Bernie gets owned by Biden after Biden plays it safe and basically forms himself into the ideal democrat for white people 2) Biden goes on to defeat Trump by continuing to be the ideal democrat for white people 3) Progressives say "YES! FINALLY! NOW WE CAN HAVE SOCIALISM!" as if they are the ones who carried all the weight.I'm your typical Oregon socialist, but when I have traveled outside of Oregon, it is very apparent that we leave in an ignorant, capitalist hellscape. I think it is possible that a lot of progressives have actually never been to these hellscapes like Virginia, Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan. They are truly revolting culturally. There's so much work to do that it feels like wondering why a 2 week old baby isn't walking yet. All of my super-progressive friends were still ticked off when Biden won. Their reaction was overwhelmingly "I guess Biden isn't as bad as Trump, but we're not going to see enough positive change from Biden for me to be happy, because his agenda isn't progressive enough for me and Congress is still going to be stupid." I don't know a single person who thought Biden was going to be a moderate while campaigning but also a true progressive in the White House. Well then I have no explanation for the kinds of things democrats are currently pushing for. My point/thought was that democrats felt empowered and like they had the high ground so to speak. They have felt like they are totally reasonable for pushing for CRT and various other things.
Ah gotcha. I don't think a lot of Dems are respecting just how razor thin the Dems' "majority" is in Congress. Like, yeah, Manchin and Sinema are frustrating, but they're who we need to work with to make any progress. Make a tiny amount of progress with the Congress we have, while simultaneously preparing to take other Congressional seats to widen the Dem lead in the Senate, so that Manchin and Sinema aren't needed to pass more progressive ideas.
All that being said, I feel like most of the CRT news is from the anti-CRT camp, upset that history is slowly being un-whitewashed, etc. I don't really hear many examples of Dems proactively going out of their way to smugly tell Repubs that their kids are now going to learn about the horrors of white people mwahahahaha, etc.
|
On November 03 2021 23:47 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2021 23:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 03 2021 23:20 Mohdoo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:09 Gahlo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Judging from how Murphy is struggling for re-election and a slate of other lost races like the one for PA's Supreme Court seat and local school boards, I don't think this was entirely a failure of McAuliffe to respond adequately to local issues (I'm sure it was very crucial though). I would think more nationalized, salient issues like inflation of groceries and gas, exhaustion with COVID restrictions, CRT and education, and Biden's down in the dumps approval took their toll on Democrats across the country.
It also seems that Trump and 1/6 is largely irrelevant to voters and the GOP can still enthuse voters without him on a ticket, despite some theories that Trump would be the main driving force for Republican voters. I'd also be watching how Democratic moderates act, because it could be an impetus to shut down BBB. They can point to the VA loss as a sign that people are deeply concerned about inflation and spending, so another $1.75 trillion is unwise. Or they'll see that Biden lacks a popular mandate and try to distance themselves from him and his agenda. CRT isn't a salient issue. The overwhelming majority of people that are against it don't even know what it's about. All republicans need to do is watch whatever nonsense Trump is complaining about and run with that. As long as the cult exists they can court them by proxy. They know it reflects poorly on white peoples and that’s where the conversation ends. Democrats need to totally ditch this whole thing. None of it matters if you lose. From a bird's eye view, here is how I see the situation: 1) Bernie gets owned by Biden after Biden plays it safe and basically forms himself into the ideal democrat for white people 2) Biden goes on to defeat Trump by continuing to be the ideal democrat for white people 3) Progressives say "YES! FINALLY! NOW WE CAN HAVE SOCIALISM!" as if they are the ones who carried all the weight.I'm your typical Oregon socialist, but when I have traveled outside of Oregon, it is very apparent that we leave in an ignorant, capitalist hellscape. I think it is possible that a lot of progressives have actually never been to these hellscapes like Virginia, Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan. They are truly revolting culturally. There's so much work to do that it feels like wondering why a 2 week old baby isn't walking yet. All of my super-progressive friends were still ticked off when Biden won. Their reaction was overwhelmingly "I guess Biden isn't as bad as Trump, but we're not going to see enough positive change from Biden for me to be happy, because his agenda isn't progressive enough for me and Congress is still going to be stupid." I don't know a single person who thought Biden was going to be a moderate while campaigning but also a true progressive in the White House. Yep, sadly there is barely enough moderates in the states and super few progressives to get one in democratically. Hell they would be better represented but still would not have control if the US didn't have FTP. When you have 45% + people who think Joe Biden, the multi millionare is a communist. And that is before you get into the born from generation of wealth, billionaire, who is a man of the people because hes loud and ignorant. Its a long long haul to even get to the basics like universal healthcare, reproductive rights for women, fair judicial system, sensible gun control, abolishment of death penalty, addiction treatment, marijuana and the list just keeps going.
I agree. The reality of the situation is that a lot of these things will take a very, very, very long time, almost certainly through incremental change.
|
|
|
Speaking for the NJ race, I can say that Murphy sounds quite similar to McAuliffe based on what I’ve heard of McAuliffe. Murphy was a 20+ year Goldman Sachs executive, linked Jack to Trump way too often and out of context, came off as an insecure blowhard in the debates, picked fights with private citizens, and is currently most infamous for saying “if high taxes are your issue, we’re probably not your state.” Jack by comparison spoke a lot about local issues and came off as clean and professional while hammering Murphy on his mistakes. Murphy’s got some pretty glaring issues as an individual candidate and I’m pretty sure that’s the only reason why this is so close.
|
On November 04 2021 00:06 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2021 00:03 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 03 2021 23:47 JimmiC wrote:On November 03 2021 23:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 03 2021 23:20 Mohdoo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:09 Gahlo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Judging from how Murphy is struggling for re-election and a slate of other lost races like the one for PA's Supreme Court seat and local school boards, I don't think this was entirely a failure of McAuliffe to respond adequately to local issues (I'm sure it was very crucial though). I would think more nationalized, salient issues like inflation of groceries and gas, exhaustion with COVID restrictions, CRT and education, and Biden's down in the dumps approval took their toll on Democrats across the country.
It also seems that Trump and 1/6 is largely irrelevant to voters and the GOP can still enthuse voters without him on a ticket, despite some theories that Trump would be the main driving force for Republican voters. I'd also be watching how Democratic moderates act, because it could be an impetus to shut down BBB. They can point to the VA loss as a sign that people are deeply concerned about inflation and spending, so another $1.75 trillion is unwise. Or they'll see that Biden lacks a popular mandate and try to distance themselves from him and his agenda. CRT isn't a salient issue. The overwhelming majority of people that are against it don't even know what it's about. All republicans need to do is watch whatever nonsense Trump is complaining about and run with that. As long as the cult exists they can court them by proxy. They know it reflects poorly on white peoples and that’s where the conversation ends. Democrats need to totally ditch this whole thing. None of it matters if you lose. From a bird's eye view, here is how I see the situation: 1) Bernie gets owned by Biden after Biden plays it safe and basically forms himself into the ideal democrat for white people 2) Biden goes on to defeat Trump by continuing to be the ideal democrat for white people 3) Progressives say "YES! FINALLY! NOW WE CAN HAVE SOCIALISM!" as if they are the ones who carried all the weight.I'm your typical Oregon socialist, but when I have traveled outside of Oregon, it is very apparent that we leave in an ignorant, capitalist hellscape. I think it is possible that a lot of progressives have actually never been to these hellscapes like Virginia, Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan. They are truly revolting culturally. There's so much work to do that it feels like wondering why a 2 week old baby isn't walking yet. All of my super-progressive friends were still ticked off when Biden won. Their reaction was overwhelmingly "I guess Biden isn't as bad as Trump, but we're not going to see enough positive change from Biden for me to be happy, because his agenda isn't progressive enough for me and Congress is still going to be stupid." I don't know a single person who thought Biden was going to be a moderate while campaigning but also a true progressive in the White House. Yep, sadly there is barely enough moderates in the states and super few progressives to get one in democratically. Hell they would be better represented but still would not have control if the US didn't have FTP. When you have 45% + people who think Joe Biden, the multi millionare is a communist. And that is before you get into the born from generation of wealth, billionaire, who is a man of the people because hes loud and ignorant. Its a long long haul to even get to the basics like universal healthcare, reproductive rights for women, fair judicial system, sensible gun control, abolishment of death penalty, addiction treatment, marijuana and the list just keeps going. I agree. The reality of the situation is that a lot of these things will take a very, very, very long time, almost certainly through incremental change. Going to be such a grind with such huge portion of the population pulling in the exact opposite direction
Yup. It always is x.x
On November 04 2021 00:07 Ryzel wrote:
Speaking for the NJ race, I can say that Murphy sounds quite similar to McAuliffe based on what I’ve heard of McAuliffe. Murphy was a 20+ year Goldman Sachs executive, linked Jack to Trump way too often and out of context, came off as an insecure blowhard in the debates, picked fights with private citizens, and is currently most infamous for saying “if high taxes are your issue, we’re probably not your state.” Jack by comparison spoke a lot about local issues and came off as clean and professional while hammering Murphy on his mistakes. Murphy’s got some pretty glaring issues as an individual candidate and I’m pretty sure that’s the only reason why this is so close.
Murphy definitely came across as out-of-touch in a lot of ways, and he is far from a fantastic candidate, although I can't think of anything as anti-NJ as when Jack tried to make people pay fines for saying curse words lol. I even think Jack came out looking pretty solid in their debates, although at the end of the day, I care about their actual policies, and the things I want are much more in line with Murphy than with Jack.
|
On November 04 2021 00:07 Ryzel wrote:
Speaking for the NJ race, I can say that Murphy sounds quite similar to McAuliffe based on what I’ve heard of McAuliffe. Murphy was a 20+ year Goldman Sachs executive, linked Jack to Trump way too often and out of context, came off as an insecure blowhard in the debates, picked fights with private citizens, and is currently most infamous for saying “if high taxes are your issue, we’re probably not your state.” Jack by comparison spoke a lot about local issues and came off as clean and professional while hammering Murphy on his mistakes. Murphy’s got some pretty glaring issues as an individual candidate and I’m pretty sure that’s the only reason why this is so close.
Thanks for the clarifying. There wasn't a whole lot of coverage on NJ's race with all eyes on VA, but it also seems like there were local issues that Murphy wasn't answering well. Puts a damper on my theory it was a lot of nationalized problems that hammered Democrats yesterday.
As this person wrote:
And yet, there is no clear pattern emerging from the elections. In local elections in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Connecticut, anti-mask, anti-CRT candidates lost across the board—but they won in Texas and Colorado. In New Jersey’s governor’s race, which is so close it has not been called yet, the central issue was not CRT but property taxes, which appears to have helped the Republican candidate significantly…but in Colorado, voters rejected a referendum on lowering property taxes. https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/november-2-2021
It was a mixed bag for both parties yesterday, though Democrats come out worse for wear.
|
On November 04 2021 00:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2021 23:43 Mohdoo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 03 2021 23:20 Mohdoo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:09 Gahlo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Judging from how Murphy is struggling for re-election and a slate of other lost races like the one for PA's Supreme Court seat and local school boards, I don't think this was entirely a failure of McAuliffe to respond adequately to local issues (I'm sure it was very crucial though). I would think more nationalized, salient issues like inflation of groceries and gas, exhaustion with COVID restrictions, CRT and education, and Biden's down in the dumps approval took their toll on Democrats across the country.
It also seems that Trump and 1/6 is largely irrelevant to voters and the GOP can still enthuse voters without him on a ticket, despite some theories that Trump would be the main driving force for Republican voters. I'd also be watching how Democratic moderates act, because it could be an impetus to shut down BBB. They can point to the VA loss as a sign that people are deeply concerned about inflation and spending, so another $1.75 trillion is unwise. Or they'll see that Biden lacks a popular mandate and try to distance themselves from him and his agenda. CRT isn't a salient issue. The overwhelming majority of people that are against it don't even know what it's about. All republicans need to do is watch whatever nonsense Trump is complaining about and run with that. As long as the cult exists they can court them by proxy. They know it reflects poorly on white peoples and that’s where the conversation ends. Democrats need to totally ditch this whole thing. None of it matters if you lose. From a bird's eye view, here is how I see the situation: 1) Bernie gets owned by Biden after Biden plays it safe and basically forms himself into the ideal democrat for white people 2) Biden goes on to defeat Trump by continuing to be the ideal democrat for white people 3) Progressives say "YES! FINALLY! NOW WE CAN HAVE SOCIALISM!" as if they are the ones who carried all the weight.I'm your typical Oregon socialist, but when I have traveled outside of Oregon, it is very apparent that we leave in an ignorant, capitalist hellscape. I think it is possible that a lot of progressives have actually never been to these hellscapes like Virginia, Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan. They are truly revolting culturally. There's so much work to do that it feels like wondering why a 2 week old baby isn't walking yet. All of my super-progressive friends were still ticked off when Biden won. Their reaction was overwhelmingly "I guess Biden isn't as bad as Trump, but we're not going to see enough positive change from Biden for me to be happy, because his agenda isn't progressive enough for me and Congress is still going to be stupid." I don't know a single person who thought Biden was going to be a moderate while campaigning but also a true progressive in the White House. Well then I have no explanation for the kinds of things democrats are currently pushing for. My point/thought was that democrats felt empowered and like they had the high ground so to speak. They have felt like they are totally reasonable for pushing for CRT and various other things. Ah gotcha. I don't think a lot of Dems are respecting just how razor thin the Dems' "majority" is in Congress. Like, yeah, Manchin and Sinema are frustrating, but they're who we need to work with to make any progress. Make a tiny amount of progress with the Congress we have, while simultaneously preparing to take other Congressional seats to widen the Dem lead in the Senate, so that Manchin and Sinema aren't needed to pass more progressive ideas. All that being said, I feel like most of the CRT news is from the anti-CRT camp, upset that history is slowly being un-whitewashed, etc. I don't really hear many examples of Dems proactively going out of their way to smugly tell Repubs that their kids are now going to learn about the horrors of white people mwahahahaha, etc.
But isnt whats happening now basically proof that this isn't going to work? The Manchins and Sinemas of the Democrats dont actually want to really work with you, they'll water everything down, make Democrats feel worse about the legislation, and maybe even ultimately tank it. Its a huge imaging problem and it kills Democrats in other races.
Democrats dont get energized by seeing their politicians in fight and make their agenda worse off, and Democrats are strongly incentivized to win with turnout
We can't get those additional Congressional seats because the Manchins and Sinemas depress enthusiasm for Democrats.
|
On November 04 2021 00:21 PhoenixVoid wrote:As this person wrote: Show nested quote +And yet, there is no clear pattern emerging from the elections. In local elections in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Connecticut, anti-mask, anti-CRT candidates lost across the board—but they won in Texas and Colorado. In New Jersey’s governor’s race, which is so close it has not been called yet, the central issue was not CRT but property taxes, which appears to have helped the Republican candidate significantly…but in Colorado, voters rejected a referendum on lowering property taxes. https://heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/november-2-2021 It was a mixed bag for both parties yesterday, though Democrats come out worse for wear.
A huge hot-button issue in every NJ election are our property taxes, and a more contemporary issue for this election is how well do New Jerseyans think that Murphy is doing in terms of handling coronavirus. Given our state's high numbers of cases/deaths and some other controversy surrounding how Murphy handled things early on, the main saving grace for Dems is that even though Murphy hasn't been handling the situation extremely well, Jack would probably have handled things worse (e.g., no mask mandates for schools). There's enough gray on a relative scale for both sides to rationalize that their candidate is still better than the other for public health, hence the extremely close race.
On November 04 2021 00:31 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2021 00:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 03 2021 23:43 Mohdoo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 03 2021 23:20 Mohdoo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:09 Gahlo wrote:On November 03 2021 23:05 PhoenixVoid wrote:
Judging from how Murphy is struggling for re-election and a slate of other lost races like the one for PA's Supreme Court seat and local school boards, I don't think this was entirely a failure of McAuliffe to respond adequately to local issues (I'm sure it was very crucial though). I would think more nationalized, salient issues like inflation of groceries and gas, exhaustion with COVID restrictions, CRT and education, and Biden's down in the dumps approval took their toll on Democrats across the country.
It also seems that Trump and 1/6 is largely irrelevant to voters and the GOP can still enthuse voters without him on a ticket, despite some theories that Trump would be the main driving force for Republican voters. I'd also be watching how Democratic moderates act, because it could be an impetus to shut down BBB. They can point to the VA loss as a sign that people are deeply concerned about inflation and spending, so another $1.75 trillion is unwise. Or they'll see that Biden lacks a popular mandate and try to distance themselves from him and his agenda. CRT isn't a salient issue. The overwhelming majority of people that are against it don't even know what it's about. All republicans need to do is watch whatever nonsense Trump is complaining about and run with that. As long as the cult exists they can court them by proxy. They know it reflects poorly on white peoples and that’s where the conversation ends. Democrats need to totally ditch this whole thing. None of it matters if you lose. From a bird's eye view, here is how I see the situation: 1) Bernie gets owned by Biden after Biden plays it safe and basically forms himself into the ideal democrat for white people 2) Biden goes on to defeat Trump by continuing to be the ideal democrat for white people 3) Progressives say "YES! FINALLY! NOW WE CAN HAVE SOCIALISM!" as if they are the ones who carried all the weight.I'm your typical Oregon socialist, but when I have traveled outside of Oregon, it is very apparent that we leave in an ignorant, capitalist hellscape. I think it is possible that a lot of progressives have actually never been to these hellscapes like Virginia, Wisconsin, Florida, Michigan. They are truly revolting culturally. There's so much work to do that it feels like wondering why a 2 week old baby isn't walking yet. All of my super-progressive friends were still ticked off when Biden won. Their reaction was overwhelmingly "I guess Biden isn't as bad as Trump, but we're not going to see enough positive change from Biden for me to be happy, because his agenda isn't progressive enough for me and Congress is still going to be stupid." I don't know a single person who thought Biden was going to be a moderate while campaigning but also a true progressive in the White House. Well then I have no explanation for the kinds of things democrats are currently pushing for. My point/thought was that democrats felt empowered and like they had the high ground so to speak. They have felt like they are totally reasonable for pushing for CRT and various other things. Ah gotcha. I don't think a lot of Dems are respecting just how razor thin the Dems' "majority" is in Congress. Like, yeah, Manchin and Sinema are frustrating, but they're who we need to work with to make any progress. Make a tiny amount of progress with the Congress we have, while simultaneously preparing to take other Congressional seats to widen the Dem lead in the Senate, so that Manchin and Sinema aren't needed to pass more progressive ideas. All that being said, I feel like most of the CRT news is from the anti-CRT camp, upset that history is slowly being un-whitewashed, etc. I don't really hear many examples of Dems proactively going out of their way to smugly tell Repubs that their kids are now going to learn about the horrors of white people mwahahahaha, etc. But isnt whats happening now basically proof that this isn't going to work? The Manchins and Sinemas of the Democrats dont actually want to really work with you, they'll water everything down, make Democrats feel worse about the legislation, and maybe even ultimately tank it. Its a huge imaging problem and it kills Democrats in other races. Democrats dont get energized by seeing their politicians in fight and make their agenda worse off, and Democrats are strongly incentivized to win with turnout We can't get those additional Congressional seats because the Manchins and Sinemas depress enthusiasm for Democrats.
The watering down of the ideal bills is precisely what I'm referring to; we'll need to accept the watered-down versions now, and only by capturing more Senate seats could we ever hope to pass more progressive policies. You're right that with a lot of important pieces of legislature, Manchin and Sinema aren't willing to unify with the other Dems, but they still do unify with the Dems a lot more than Republican alternatives would. And perhaps the liberal constituents from WV or AZ are disincentivized because their Dem Senators aren't playing ball with all Dem proposals, but other purple states can still be mobilized, independent of that.
And, of course, at the end of the day, the blame lies at the feet of 50 Republican Senators too.
|
The watering down of the ideal bills is precisely what I'm referring to; we'll need to accept the watered-down versions now, and only by capturing more Senate seats could we ever hope to pass more progressive policies. You're right that with a lot of important pieces of legislature, Manchin and Sinema aren't willing to unify with the other Dems, but they still do unify with the Dems a lot more than Republican alternatives would. And perhaps the liberal constituents from WV or AZ are disincentivized because their Dem Senators aren't playing ball with all Dem proposals, but other purple states can still be mobilized, independent of that.
And, of course, at the end of the day, the blame lies at the feet of 50 Republican Senators too.
But when Manchin and Sinema play spoiler you lose the ability to say its the Republicans fault, because then it becomes about how Democrats cant get anything done within their own party. The damage this does to the Democrats electorally is, imo, worse than having two Republicans.
Its not like even playing their ball and working to make the bill worse has done Democrats any favors, they just had a super troubling election night and Im almost positive its because of how stupid and incompetent Democrats look right now. People fought tooth and nail to get them both chambers of Congress, they talked up how important and huge that was, and then their voters have to watch them fight amongst themselves while accomplishing nothing.
Why should someone want to give Democrats more seats when Democrats with control over the Senate and House don't seem to accomplish anything?
Thats not a question that gets resolved logically, thats not how voters operate, thats a question you have to answer in terms that will get people to actually get out and vote, and "Sorry, we need an overwhelming majority, anything less is worthless good luck out there though lol" is not an inspiring message and its the message Democrats are sending when their infighting holds up even the most minute progress.
Democrats have a problem with being seen as weak, ineffective, not actually all that interested in doing anything positive so much as signaling it, and his cycle of Making Big Promises, Getting Elected, Manchin Fucking Promises Over, Repeat is not worth his one unsalvageable seat. I mean whats the plan once hes out of Congress anyways, hes old and his seat isn't going to go Blue again like this.
|
|
|
On November 04 2021 01:14 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2021 01:03 Zambrah wrote:The watering down of the ideal bills is precisely what I'm referring to; we'll need to accept the watered-down versions now, and only by capturing more Senate seats could we ever hope to pass more progressive policies. You're right that with a lot of important pieces of legislature, Manchin and Sinema aren't willing to unify with the other Dems, but they still do unify with the Dems a lot more than Republican alternatives would. And perhaps the liberal constituents from WV or AZ are disincentivized because their Dem Senators aren't playing ball with all Dem proposals, but other purple states can still be mobilized, independent of that.
And, of course, at the end of the day, the blame lies at the feet of 50 Republican Senators too. But when Manchin and Sinema play spoiler you lose the ability to say its the Republicans fault, because then it becomes about how Democrats cant get anything done within their own party. The damage this does to the Democrats electorally is, imo, worse than having two Republicans. Its not like even playing their ball and working to make the bill worse has done Democrats any favors, they just had a super troubling election night and Im almost positive its because of how stupid and incompetent Democrats look right now. People fought tooth and nail to get them both chambers of Congress, they talked up how important and huge that was, and then their voters have to watch them fight amongst themselves while accomplishing nothing. Why should someone want to give Democrats more seats when Democrats with control over the Senate and House don't seem to accomplish anything? Thats not a question that gets resolved logically, thats not how voters operate, thats a question you have to answer in terms that will get people to actually get out and vote, and "Sorry, we need an overwhelming majority, anything less is worthless good luck out there though lol" is not an inspiring message and its the message Democrats are sending when their infighting holds up even the most minute progress. Democrats have a problem with being seen as weak, ineffective, not actually all that interested in doing anything positive so much as signaling it, and his cycle of Making Big Promises, Getting Elected, Manchin Fucking Promises Over, Repeat is not worth his one unsalvageable seat. I mean whats the plan once hes out of Congress anyways, hes old and his seat isn't going to go Blue again like this. The problem is that the Dems are not a uniform team, nor are they meant to be, it frustrating that they are not and it leads to people blaming the party but that is not how it works in your system. Now the Reps look more cohesive because they span a much smaller portion of the political spectrum, but you still have the RINO silliness. Its being mad at the symptom instead of the cause. The issue is not manchin, he is one of the senators that votes most left of his state, the issue is that you have so few states (and people) that are left. Hell compared to canada you have very few who are even right of center.
So quit and pray that more states just decide to go left? The US is doomed to accomplish nothing or regress, its just how it is?
We can't address causes without either some sort of revolution or a political party willing to get itself together and bust ass to address those causes, I think its safe to say people here dont want revolution, but at the same time theres this fatalistic sort of "we can only hope things turn out well, we can't do anything meaningfully different strategically, ust play the same old plays year by year and hope!" mentality here that bugs me.
The US has a really fascist looking party right now and just accepting that we're going to go back and forth letting them have power like we've done in the past does not sit right with me. One day they're going to firmly tip the scales in their favor and once thats done all of this lovely democracy business is gone.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
