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On June 23 2021 15:23 Sermokala wrote:
I think people might just be a little extra burnt out from 2020 to really want to dig back in. Most people voted for biden because he was a safe boring old white dude in a nightmare year for politics.
We truly live in the age of a lack of conclusions.
In fairness, I was worried that Trump might start WW 3... So it is a bit of a relief not having to worry about that. Things are nowhere close to being okay, but some things are actually getting done, so forgive me for having some brunch and feeling a bit more hopeful.
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I wouldn't be hopeful the party that embraces the status quo while rome burns has no future.
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I think it's fair to say, that the US now is more culturally divided than Germany is right now, even though we were the poster child of messed up nation state 100 years ago.
That said, the fringe right is becoming more and more entrenched in a party that is openly welcoming racist and neo nazis. And the divide of that is very real in our families as well, as the people repeating the crap and propaganda of that party might be just uninformed, or mildly racist, or hardcore racist. My in-laws are in one of those tents and I am always clenching up when I visit because the next discussion about politics could end with me asking my girl to stop being in contact. The "alt right" as you call it, is a political party here getting 20 - 30% of votes in some states and unlike with Republicans, there are no people that can argue that they hate the fringe if the party they are voting for, but they have no other choice.
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On June 23 2021 00:35 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2021 00:28 Simberto wrote:
There are a bunch of east-west conflicts in Germany currently. Then maybe I just don't know enough about German politics. From my perspective, you guys have not had any failed insurrections lately or anything close to that. I do not hear about German families being completely torn apart due to elections, but maybe it happens. Here in the US, most families have started to splinter into their conservative and liberal components, whether they say it or not. Perhaps this is a good opportunity for me to learn. And just to be clear, this is not a dick measuring contest. Are you saying there are issues currently going on in Germany that indicate Germany is equally divided as the US right now?
Depends on the family. I'd say that voting for the largest extreme right party is probably more divisive than voting republican. The east vs west conflict plays into that, but is not entirely the same, similarly to how there are Trump voters in the north.
But the AfD is hovering between 10 and 20%, so the split is not right through the middle like in the 2-party system USA. Germans have also pretty collectively adopted a "don't give a fuck" mentality unless shit hits the fan, we are and for the foreseeable future will be majorly be reigned by the conservatives or the now conservative greens and it doesn't really matter. Our conservatives are politically closer to your dems than your reps, so we have minor inner political adjustments and aren't basically a nation from the end of the 19th century because our parties have been stalling each other for a hundred years.
But yes we have local patriotism like the southern states in f.e. Bavaria, much to the annoyance of everyone else, have fascist voters on the right and arguably a block party of centrist parties with nuanced differences. Before Corona hit I was fairly sure we were going into the direction of the late Weimar republic with a bunch of small parties trying to find coalitions that won't get shit done, but Corona weakened the small parties a bit here, so maybe we'll just get conservatives + green populist conservatives for the ultimate coalition of empty regulations.
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I just finished reading a complilation of essays by Jacek Dukaj and in of those called "After writing" he is climing that our society is shifting from writing-argument oriented paradigm to postwriting-feeling oriented paradigm (the reason of this change is technology). As a result people become less and less concerned about arguments, facts, being right and become more focused on "feeling right" and connecting with people feeling the same as they do.
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On June 23 2021 18:03 Silvanel wrote:
I just finished reading a complilation of essays by Jacek Dukaj and in of those called "After writing" he is climing that our society is shifting from writing-argument oriented paradigm to postwriting-feeling oriented paradigm (the reason of this change is technology). As a result people become less and less concerned about arguments, facts, being right and become more focused on "feeling right" and connecting with people feeling the same as they do.
Does Dukaj make an argument why that was different?
Imo humans were always beings that were majorly lead by their instincts and emotions. That associating your product with a positive feeling is a better marketing strategy than listing all it's benefits has been known for ages.
I'm not doubting that we see a shift in information quality and pandering customers by the media, but imo it's more related to the fact that we're in a world where we get tons of info we can't verify, so we just tend to believe what we want to hear. So the classical media looses more and more customers and as a result jumps on the train of pandering their target audience.
Before the internet people had less access to information, so the market was split between less outlets who as a result could invest into looking well-researched. Now they just don't have the money for serious journalism anymore, so they are trying to keep a target audience by publishing stuff they want to read. But I think that change comes from the media and the market, not from the buyers.
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Well he says that there were three vastly different cultures in history (oral, writing and now we are entering culture of feeling) producing people thinking in different way. The change between each other is caused by technological progress. So it is technology that now is causing the shift away from more rational/logical writing oriented culture into more emotive one, where logic doesnt matter as much and group empathy is more important.
The essay is over 200pages long so its hard to to pass on all the important ideas. I myself am of opinion that he makes some valid points but i am not sure if he isnt confusing cause with effect. Sadly the essay is not translated into english as far as i am aware of.
I just thought this is one more look on the point already emphasized many times in this thread - that the things we see in US politics wouldnt be possible without recent advancment in technology. Wheather they are causing it or just exposing something that was already there is another discussion.
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The Voting Rights bills through the Senate now
+ Show Spoiler +Throufh meaning done with because it couldn’t even get voted up for debate
Boy howdy it’s been a great time working with all of these Republicans they have proved a vital and important part of the health of the United States and I, personally, am very happy we have such a strong Republican Party.
I also look forward to their retaking the House and Senate for the foreseeable future, bless our extremely well functioning and highly representative of the people government. God Bless America!
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I'm choosing to give Democrats momentary benefit of the doubt after they managed the stimulus bill. If the strategy is to let voting rights fail so it can be a martyr for infrastructure, I'm on board. So long as the infrastructure bill ends up being passed, I am willing to basically forgive any other hiccup. If there's no infrastructure bill by 2022, Democrats have failed.
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On June 24 2021 00:55 Zambrah wrote:The Voting Rights bills through the Senate now + Show Spoiler +Throufh meaning done with because it couldn’t even get voted up for debate Boy howdy it’s been a great time working with all of these Republicans they have proved a vital and important part of the health of the United States and I, personally, am very happy we have such a strong Republican Party. I also look forward to their retaking the House and Senate for the foreseeable future, bless our extremely well functioning and highly representative of the people government. God Bless America!
I can’t really remember, but did you actually vote for the democrats?
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On June 24 2021 00:57 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm choosing to give Democrats momentary benefit of the doubt after they managed the stimulus bill. If the strategy is to let voting rights fail so it can be a martyr for infrastructure, I'm on board. So long as the infrastructure bill ends up being passed, I am willing to basically forgive any other hiccup. If there's no infrastructure bill by 2022, Democrats have failed.
I was quite disappointed by the stimulus the Democrats passed myself. Got quite a lot less money by virtue of them reducing the eligibility cap for the free money check.
Infrastructure looks like it’s on shaky ground and will deliver far less than promised even when it gets through.
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On June 24 2021 03:32 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2021 00:57 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm choosing to give Democrats momentary benefit of the doubt after they managed the stimulus bill. If the strategy is to let voting rights fail so it can be a martyr for infrastructure, I'm on board. So long as the infrastructure bill ends up being passed, I am willing to basically forgive any other hiccup. If there's no infrastructure bill by 2022, Democrats have failed. I was quite disappointed by the stimulus the Democrats passed myself. Got quite a lot less money by virtue of them reducing the eligibility cap for the free money check. Infrastructure looks like it’s on shaky ground and will deliver far less than promised even when it gets through.
Neither are what I want but both are steps in the right direction that I can appreciate.
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On June 24 2021 00:55 Zambrah wrote:The Voting Rights bills through the Senate now + Show Spoiler +Throufh meaning done with because it couldn’t even get voted up for debate Boy howdy it’s been a great time working with all of these Republicans they have proved a vital and important part of the health of the United States and I, personally, am very happy we have such a strong Republican Party. I also look forward to their retaking the House and Senate for the foreseeable future, bless our extremely well functioning and highly representative of the people government. God Bless America!
Democrats learned their lesson about negotiating with Republicans after Obama, or so I've been told lol.
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The US and Israel have once again set themselves apart from the world being the only countries voting to perpetuate the US's inhumane embargo/sanctions against Cuba.
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Is Cuba stopping their practice of slavery? Maybe the real question should be why everyone else is so comfortable with Cuba’s system of slavery.
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On June 24 2021 00:57 Mohdoo wrote:
I'm choosing to give Democrats momentary benefit of the doubt after they managed the stimulus bill. If the strategy is to let voting rights fail so it can be a martyr for infrastructure, I'm on board. So long as the infrastructure bill ends up being passed, I am willing to basically forgive any other hiccup. If there's no infrastructure bill by 2022, Democrats have failed.
I'm amazed that massive voter disenfranchisement could be seen as a mere bargaining chip. If they do manage to pass the infrastructure bill but have to gut it of everything relating to climate change I think that's still a pretty massive failure. At this point, it seems like the only way out of this insanity is if we could break up the two major parties so that we could have actual issues based representation. It's so frustrating to have the whole country held hostage to a fanatical regressive minority.
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On June 24 2021 04:30 RenSC2 wrote:Is Cuba stopping their practice of slavery? Maybe the real question should be why everyone else is so comfortable with Cuba’s system of slavery.
I appreciate your commitment to the belief that the US and Israel are moral beacons while the rest of the world displays their comfort with slavery, which the US (despite its unparalleled prison population and their forced labor
+ Show Spoiler +) obviously opposes.
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On June 24 2021 04:30 RenSC2 wrote:Is Cuba stopping their practice of slavery? Maybe the real question should be why everyone else is so comfortable with Cuba’s system of slavery.
Can you please elaborate on Cuba's slavery?
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On June 24 2021 04:30 RenSC2 wrote:Is Cuba stopping their practice of slavery? Maybe the real question should be why everyone else is so comfortable with Cuba’s system of slavery.
Boy oh boy do i have bad news for you...
Apart from that, yeah. If 184 people vote against something that only two countries are in favour of, then you can take it pretty much for granted that you and your mate are the idiots in the room, not the 184 other people.
You take "american exceptionalism" to a whole new level bud. Not in a good way either.
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On June 24 2021 05:13 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2021 04:30 RenSC2 wrote:Is Cuba stopping their practice of slavery? Maybe the real question should be why everyone else is so comfortable with Cuba’s system of slavery. Boy oh boy do i have bad news for you... Apart from that, yeah. If 184 people vote against something that only two countries are in favour of, then you can take it pretty much for granted that you and your mate are the idiots in the room, not the 184 other people. You take "american exceptionalism" to a whole new level bud. Not in a good way either.
Partners in crime... literally x.x
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/e5a614ef1825503cf5979ab48299bfc7773e58b9/0_50_1992_1195/master/1992.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=3947e81635d018c93011afc8df8c0491)
