Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
A large chunk of Asians living in America do not live financially comfortable lives. They’re like any other minority, the only major difference is that they’re typically far less visible unlike most other larger minority groups in America.
This is due to more impenetrable culture, language and a lot of other minorities being the common beating stick by the white majority. The truth is that Asians are not a monolithic block just like the black community or Latino community are not either. But a large chunk of the country treats Asians as if they’re all culturally homogeneous.
The black and Asian animus is unfortunately pretty common. I can’t speak for the black community, since I am not black, but a lot of Asians do buy into the racist framing of black community struggles AND see them as getting benefits that they also feel that they deserve as a community. A common trigger point is the feeling that whole concept of diversity hiring and affirmative action being overwhelming weighted towards the black community. I’ve got no proof but I sometimes feel that a lot of people in the Asian community are way more hostile towards things like reparations than the white majority are.
The US as a whole is absolutely obsessed with race. As long as even liberal media constantly adds race into polls, surveys etc, you will have a problem. True equally will only happen when it is not even a topic.
On February 25 2021 19:04 Slydie wrote: The US as a whole is absolutely obsessed with race. As long as even liberal media constantly adds race into polls, surveys etc, you will have a problem. True equally will only happen when it is not even a topic.
From slavery to "manifest destiny" to The New Deal (recently had the anniversary of EO 9066) the US is built on genocide and white supremacy. It's not so much an obsession as a foundational/organizing principle.
Connecting it to the previous points on tensions between different racial groupings in the US, we've long known that embracing aspects of said white supremacist ideologies can confer material benefits in our society.
On February 25 2021 19:04 Slydie wrote: The US as a whole is absolutely obsessed with race. As long as even liberal media constantly adds race into polls, surveys etc, you will have a problem. True equally will only happen when it is not even a topic.
It is. And due to american cultural dominance over vast areas of the world this obsession is spreading to countries with vastly different history and sociological background, which i myself find problematic.
The police are getting fuckin' robot dogs now, can we defund them yet? At this point they're zipping past grossly unnecessary military hardware right into grossly unnecessary cyberpunk dystopian robot territory.
I wonder how much these things cost, and why that money isn't better spent on just absolutely anything else, lol
Someone either stop the oncoming cyberpunk world we're hurtling towards or make way more cyberpunk games so I can learn to cope with it early.
EDIT: All the posts I see about this thing on twitter have a bunch of people advising how best to disable it, tar, and nets, and how to target it's battery and the like lol, man the Robot Wars are going to be a wild time, mankind might have a shot.
Those Boston Dynamic dogs always reminds me so much of the creepy robotic dogs in one of the Black Mirror episodes (if I remember correctly, the black mirror dogs were inspired by them).
The robot dogs being owned by the police isn't inherently bad, since they can be great in search and rescue operations (which is typically the usage for such types of robots). Not a big difference if it is the police or firemen who have it. Don't think they will be used a lot in hostile environment, since as you noted there are several ways to disable the dog easily.
On February 25 2021 15:44 StalkerTL wrote: A large chunk of Asians living in America do not live financially comfortable lives. They’re like any other minority, the only major difference is that they’re typically far less visible unlike most other larger minority groups in America.
This is due to more impenetrable culture, language and a lot of other minorities being the common beating stick by the white majority. The truth is that Asians are not a monolithic block just like the black community or Latino community are not either. But a large chunk of the country treats Asians as if they’re all culturally homogeneous.
The black and Asian animus is unfortunately pretty common. I can’t speak for the black community, since I am not black, but a lot of Asians do buy into the racist framing of black community struggles AND see them as getting benefits that they also feel that they deserve as a community. A common trigger point is the feeling that whole concept of diversity hiring and affirmative action being overwhelming weighted towards the black community. I’ve got no proof but I sometimes feel that a lot of people in the Asian community are way more hostile towards things like reparations than the white majority are.
Asians feel more homegenous because the divorce rate is the lowest of any group in the US. Two parent households make for a significantly better growing environment and offer a better growth experience for the child. The Asian community is as strong as perceived because of the emphasis on family and taking care of their youth and elderly.
A vast majority of Asian children (85%) today live with two married parents, as is the case for most white children (74%) and Hispanic children (61%). Only 36% of black children live with married parents.
On February 25 2021 23:11 Mohdoo wrote: When having discussions of race like this, it always feels like Israel just slides by, existing as an actual ethnostate. Totally blows my mind
This confuses me a little. You brought up racism in America. The discussion has been focused on that. What exactly is blowing your mind?
On February 25 2021 23:11 Mohdoo wrote: When having discussions of race like this, it always feels like Israel just slides by, existing as an actual ethnostate. Totally blows my mind
This confuses me a little. You brought up racism in America. The discussion has been focused on that. What exactly is blowing your mind?
Sorry I didn't mean that people should be screaming about Israel. I'm just pointing out that despite anything going on in the US, Israel is orders of magnitude worse and has a government intent on keeping it that way. But I should just shut up and no sidetrack conversation. By no means am I saying we should discuss Israel.
On February 25 2021 19:04 Slydie wrote: The US as a whole is absolutely obsessed with race. As long as even liberal media constantly adds race into polls, surveys etc, you will have a problem. True equally will only happen when it is not even a topic.
It is. And due to american cultural dominance over vast areas of the world this obsession is spreading to countries with vastly different history and sociological background, which i myself find problematic.
Yeah. I find that in France, that has a completely different background and history, the american references pollutes the debate more than anything else. It's not that France doesn't have any racism problems - it does - but that the concepts and ideas of american's debate are irrelevant and actually rather harmful here. Even very left wing people I know here find the wokes unbearable and the cancel culture toxic as fuck, at least in the context of european societies.
On February 25 2021 23:11 Mohdoo wrote: When having discussions of race like this, it always feels like Israel just slides by, existing as an actual ethnostate. Totally blows my mind
This confuses me a little. You brought up racism in America. The discussion has been focused on that. What exactly is blowing your mind?
Sorry I didn't mean that people should be screaming about Israel. I'm just pointing out that despite anything going on in the US, Israel is orders of magnitude worse and has a government intent on keeping it that way. But I should just shut up and no sidetrack conversation. By no means am I saying we should discuss Israel.
Pretty sure we have had discussions about the ethic issues in Israel before on this forum, just because people don't instantly jump to Israel when discussing racism in the US doesn't mean people do not see it as a problem.
ps. And why are you bringing up Israel but not talking about China? you afraid to upset your buddy Xi? /s
On February 25 2021 19:04 Slydie wrote: The US as a whole is absolutely obsessed with race. As long as even liberal media constantly adds race into polls, surveys etc, you will have a problem. True equally will only happen when it is not even a topic.
Your causality is backwards. Let's say someone kept shitting in sandwiches to the point that every conversation about that restaurant is dominated by that issue. You would be wrong to say that we can't fix the shit in the sandwiches until we stop talking about it. People will stop talking about the issue when the staff stop shitting in the sandwiches.
True shit free sandwiches will happen at the same time as it not even being a topic but that does not mean that it not being a topic causes shit free sandwiches. The reason shit sandwiches isn't a topic at 99.99999% of restaurants is that in those restaurants nobody has been shitting in the sandwiches.
On February 25 2021 19:04 Slydie wrote: The US as a whole is absolutely obsessed with race. As long as even liberal media constantly adds race into polls, surveys etc, you will have a problem. True equally will only happen when it is not even a topic.
It is. And due to american cultural dominance over vast areas of the world this obsession is spreading to countries with vastly different history and sociological background, which i myself find problematic.
The example of this that annoys me the most is blackface. It's rightly taboo in America because blackface was historically used to portray negative racial stereotypes and denigrate the black community. In places without that historical context it's completely different. If you're in 19th C America portraying a black person there is an implicit power imbalance there, the black people you would come into contact with were most likely slaves or, after the civil war, former slaves. If you're in 19th C England portraying a black person it's far more likely that they have sufficient acumen and status to have made their way to London in some capacity. You still run into issues of fetishized orientalism etc. but the power dynamic is completely different.
Within the context of the traditional British theatre exaggerated costumes have always been a thing and not limited to race. Crossdressing in panto is a good example of this with the audience encouraged to laugh at how unconvincing the disguise of the Widow Twankey is. The butt of the joke isn't women, it's the funny gruff >6ft tall man with stubble wearing giant fake tits and a wig that keeps slipping.
context matters indeed. I feel like there should be an informal rule of bitchslapping applied in case a white person gets somehow more offended than the purportedly aggrieved black/asian/handicapped/gay/whatever person
//
also I did not come across it the last couple of pages but as it is quite news.
On February 25 2021 15:44 StalkerTL wrote: A large chunk of Asians living in America do not live financially comfortable lives. They’re like any other minority, the only major difference is that they’re typically far less visible unlike most other larger minority groups in America.
This is due to more impenetrable culture, language and a lot of other minorities being the common beating stick by the white majority. The truth is that Asians are not a monolithic block just like the black community or Latino community are not either. But a large chunk of the country treats Asians as if they’re all culturally homogeneous.
The black and Asian animus is unfortunately pretty common. I can’t speak for the black community, since I am not black, but a lot of Asians do buy into the racist framing of black community struggles AND see them as getting benefits that they also feel that they deserve as a community. A common trigger point is the feeling that whole concept of diversity hiring and affirmative action being overwhelming weighted towards the black community. I’ve got no proof but I sometimes feel that a lot of people in the Asian community are way more hostile towards things like reparations than the white majority are.
Asians feel more homegenous because the divorce rate is the lowest of any group in the US. Two parent households make for a significantly better growing environment and offer a better growth experience for the child. The Asian community is as strong as perceived because of the emphasis on family and taking care of their youth and elderly.
A vast majority of Asian children (85%) today live with two married parents, as is the case for most white children (74%) and Hispanic children (61%). Only 36% of black children live with married parents.
If you want to talk about being born at a disadvantage, this is always what comes to my mind.
This is the usual position (at least, 10 years ago it was) I hear from conservative-minded people about why racial injustice isn’t something we should focus public policy on addressing. I think it’s usually sincere, although it always feels a bit too convenient, considering the conclusion is basically “it’s their fault so we shouldn’t do anything.” This results in the (usually, but not exclusively white) conservative response to racial issues being “If black people want equality they should work hard, stay married, quit complaining and [usually included] stop calling each other the n word.” It’s too often used as a dismissal of the issue more than a sincere attempt at discussing/describing racial issues in the US.
There’s not nothing to the argument, though. There have been people making sincere efforts to argue that damage to Black family structure is an important part of the story of racial inequality in America. Here, for instance, is rapper Abstract Rude presenting a hypothetical wealthy black family being torn apart by a dad’s cheating and domestic abuse in a way he certainly seems to think is representative of problems common in black families.
Or a heart wrenching monologue about an abused Black boy growing up to a life of petty crime because of his trauma, which was on the Roots’ album Things Fall Apart. People get shitty when you say the words “trigger warning” but I’m gonna go ahead and say up front, this monologue fucks me up any time I listen to it, and especially if you have any history of family trauma you might want to pass on it.
My musical references are dated, I know. I haven’t listened to a lot of new music in the last several years; when I started commuting I mostly replaced listening to music with listening to podcasts. Apologies.
Obviously these aren’t really the same argument as the (again, usually but not exclusively) white conservatives are making, for a lot of reasons. One of the bigger differences is that it doesn’t quickly jump to assigning blame, considering that abused people often go on to abuse other people, and assigning blame in such situations is morally complex. Another big difference is that it acknowledges this problem exists in the context of a massive universe of other problems relating to racial inequality and justice, and can’t be diagnosed and described a la carte. The biggest problem I have with the white conservative argument is that by refusing to acknowledge other (exogenous) problems affecting the Black community, they leave unanswered the obvious question: why are Black families more prone to this kind of destruction? The obvious (but quite intentionally unsaid) conclusion is that they think Black people are genetically predisposed to this kind of behavior (though they would at least insist on substituting “culturally” for “genetically” if you called them on it).
So I’ll ask you that question. Why, in your opinion, do Black families split up more often? I think you’re a nice guy and probably don’t need this disclaimer, but for you or anyone else answering the question, I urge you to re-read your response once or twice before posting. This thread (and especially these kinds of conversations) have been the end of many a veteran poster, so it’s worth being extra sure you’re only saying what you really mean.
On February 25 2021 15:44 StalkerTL wrote: A large chunk of Asians living in America do not live financially comfortable lives. They’re like any other minority, the only major difference is that they’re typically far less visible unlike most other larger minority groups in America.
This is due to more impenetrable culture, language and a lot of other minorities being the common beating stick by the white majority. The truth is that Asians are not a monolithic block just like the black community or Latino community are not either. But a large chunk of the country treats Asians as if they’re all culturally homogeneous.
The black and Asian animus is unfortunately pretty common. I can’t speak for the black community, since I am not black, but a lot of Asians do buy into the racist framing of black community struggles AND see them as getting benefits that they also feel that they deserve as a community. A common trigger point is the feeling that whole concept of diversity hiring and affirmative action being overwhelming weighted towards the black community. I’ve got no proof but I sometimes feel that a lot of people in the Asian community are way more hostile towards things like reparations than the white majority are.
Asians feel more homegenous because the divorce rate is the lowest of any group in the US. Two parent households make for a significantly better growing environment and offer a better growth experience for the child. The Asian community is as strong as perceived because of the emphasis on family and taking care of their youth and elderly.
A vast majority of Asian children (85%) today live with two married parents, as is the case for most white children (74%) and Hispanic children (61%). Only 36% of black children live with married parents.
If you want to talk about being born at a disadvantage, this is always what comes to my mind.
This is the usual position (at least, 10 years ago it was) I hear from conservative-minded people about why racial injustice isn’t something we should focus public policy on addressing. I think it’s usually sincere, although it always feels a bit too convenient, considering the conclusion is basically “it’s their fault so we shouldn’t do anything.” This results in the (usually, but not exclusively white) conservative response to racial issues being “If black people want equality they should work hard, stay married, quit complaining and [usually included] stop calling each other the n word.” It’s too often used as a dismissal of the issue more than a sincere attempt at discussing/describing racial issues in the US.
There’s not nothing to the argument, though. There have been people making sincere efforts to argue that damage to Black family structure is an important part of the story of racial inequality in America. Here, for instance, is rapper Abstract Rude presenting a hypothetical wealthy black family being torn apart by a dad’s cheating and domestic abuse in a way he certainly seems to think is representative of problems common in black families.
Or a heart wrenching monologue about an abused Black boy growing up to a life of petty crime because of his trauma, which was on the Roots’ album Things Fall Apart. People get shitty when you say the words “trigger warning” but I’m gonna go ahead and say up front, this monologue fucks me up any time I listen to it, and especially if you have any history of family trauma you might want to pass on it.
My musical references are dated, I know. I haven’t listened to a lot of new music in the last several years; when I started commuting I mostly replaced listening to music with listening to podcasts. Apologies.
Obviously these aren’t really the same argument as the (again, usually but not exclusively) white conservatives are making, for a lot of reasons. One of the bigger differences is that it doesn’t quickly jump to assigning blame, considering that abused people often go on to abuse other people, and assigning blame in such situations is morally complex. Another big difference is that it acknowledges this problem exists in the context of a massive universe of other problems relating to racial inequality and justice, and can’t be diagnosed and described a la carte. The biggest problem I have with the white conservative argument is that by refusing to acknowledge other (exogenous) problems affecting the Black community, they leave unanswered the obvious question: why are Black families more prone to this kind of destruction? The obvious (but quite intentionally unsaid) conclusion is that they think Black people are genetically predisposed to this kind of behavior (though they would at least insist on substituting “culturally” for “genetically” if you called them on it).
So I’ll ask you that question. Why, in your opinion, do Black families split up more often? I think you’re a nice guy and probably don’t need this disclaimer, but for you or anyone else answering the question, I urge you to re-read your response once or twice before posting. This thread (and especially these kinds of conversations) have been the end of many a veteran poster, so it’s worth being extra sure you’re only saying what you really mean.
A simple answer is I don’t think race is the reason. I think it’s generations of poor education from schools and family elders. I don’t think parents are taking up enough personal responsibility in raising their children. I think it’s higher in the black community because the environment their kids are raised in aren’t giving them a chance to make better decisions during critical coming of age years. I think we need to do our best to help young adults become better role models for the next generation so we can show them the cycle can be broken.
Edit: I think there is plenty our government can do to help, but I think as peers in our millennial generation, we need to ween parents of addictive behavior wether it be alcohol, phones, Tv, social media, or video games. I saw two women in the front of a car, both on phones, one driving, the other with a 2 year old in her lap in the front seat. I can tell, regardless of race, that person is a shit parent and setting their kids up for failure.
EPT
