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United Kingdom13774 Posts
On October 28 2020 17:35 Neneu wrote: Well Biff's expressed viewpoints are pretty consistent with the party called Socialistic Left (Sosialistisk Venstre, SV). There is only one party left of them in Norway and that is Rødt which is the previous Communist party. They are, as all traditional Norwegian parties, known to be able to be pragmatic and a reliable partner when in government. Their previous party leader were even the Minister of Finance during and after the financial crisis in 2007 and did a great job at that.
If Biff's viewpoints are neoliberal it would make the entire Norwegian parliament, with exception of one member, either neoliberals or conservatives. It would also mean that the Nordic model is primarily a Neoliberal model, which is crazy.
If following the traditional values of the nordic model makes you a neoliberal, I am fine being one as a member of the green party in Norway. I don't think his stated beliefs are neoliberal, per se. That's not what's being claimed. His stated positions are indeed in line with what would pass as somewhat in line with the left, but when they're coupled with an absolute lack of willingness to accept any form of adversity to achieve them. Neoliberalism is something of a default outcome of refusing to do anything, given that the entire position is almost tailor-made to be in the interest of the well-connected big businesses that benefit from and advocate for many of its policy implications. That's where the whole bit about "implied consensus" comes into play, whether or not the notional positions align with that.
It's not far from what many American politicians do, for that matter. If you read their positions off a list of what they claim to support, it all looks really agreeable and supportive of the right things. But then there's a strange unwillingness to actually work in the direction of meaningfully implementing those things, instead creating something very much in line with the more centrist position.
When someone says they want X, but they're not willing to support any actions that are needed to achieve X, one would rightly conclude that their support for X is actually very loosely held and easily bargained away. Sure, you occasionally want to compromise in the short term, but if you compromise every single time, one would rightly assume that you're either lying about what you're willing to support, or too cowardly to deviate from the status quo. Faux pragmatism is often used to justify both of these positions, but it becomes clear that it's not really pragmatism that drives these positions if you push back on it.
I am also aware that people don't like labels that paint them in an unflattering light, even when such labels are accurate.
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Northern Ireland20735 Posts
On October 28 2020 20:56 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2020 19:58 Biff The Understudy wrote: How is the ACA, for example, that has changed the life of dozens of millions of people for the better "incremental change" that take us "the wrong direction"?
I mean I just don't get that. That makes no sense. And that's just an example among dozens.
Not even going to mention how incredibly stupid it is to call a reform like that or the people who made it "neoliberal". Neoliberal would be the exact opposite: transferring health to the private sector and deregulating it at the expense of people who can't afford it. The larger issue is that a lot of people want widespread immediate change. They don't want to piecemeal change together, they want it done at once. And that is just unrealistic. Incremental change, as they are leading us to believe, is a lifetime of waiting. A lifetime of watching nothing get better on the micro. The macro looks dandy in some regards, but the day to day lives of individuals aren't as great as their dreams would lead them to believe. It isn't so much that nothing isn't being done, it's that they want it all at once. There is no way, absolutely impossible, for the change GH and his kind are asking for without sacrificing a lot of people. And I mean at least 1 billion. Those lives are going to have to be forfeit to see the change on a global level most of them are advocating for. We'd probably lose a few million in the states alone to implement their structural change. But that isn't the issue here in that case. They just want their immediate change and gratification. I'm not so sure that desire for instant gratification and throwing out the idea of piecemeal change is quite as prevalent as you're making out here.
Sure it eventually manifests in that form, but as a consequence of two pertinent factors. When things are actively moving backwards, or where there is a wide public desire for something to happen and that doesn't manifest in incremental changes in a positive direction at a structural level. There are innumerable examples of policies from the moderate to the relatively radical that consistently have public buy-in all over the globe and are never enacted because the pipeline is faulty.
Look there's plenty politically I'd love to see that's pie in the sky crazy to average Joe, I have no particular expectation of those things being actualised anytime soon. On the other hand, there's plenty of stuff that either directly impacts me and I have personal experience of, or have strong moral views on that has actively got worse throughout my adult life.
Plenty of stuff, especially in the social realm and the rights afforded to minority groups and the LGBT community being enfranchised both culturally and legally has generally improved though, I mean it's not all bad. Got there in increments, but I mean really what would have been the problem in just doing those things years ago?
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On October 28 2020 23:03 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2020 17:35 Neneu wrote: Well Biff's expressed viewpoints are pretty consistent with the party called Socialistic Left (Sosialistisk Venstre, SV). There is only one party left of them in Norway and that is Rødt which is the previous Communist party. They are, as all traditional Norwegian parties, known to be able to be pragmatic and a reliable partner when in government. Their previous party leader were even the Minister of Finance during and after the financial crisis in 2007 and did a great job at that.
If Biff's viewpoints are neoliberal it would make the entire Norwegian parliament, with exception of one member, either neoliberals or conservatives. It would also mean that the Nordic model is primarily a Neoliberal model, which is crazy.
If following the traditional values of the nordic model makes you a neoliberal, I am fine being one as a member of the green party in Norway. I don't think his stated beliefs are neoliberal, per se. That's not what's being claimed. His stated positions are indeed in line with what would pass as somewhat in line with the left, but when they're coupled with an absolute lack of willingness to accept any form of adversity to achieve them. Neoliberalism is something of a default outcome of refusing to do anything, given that the entire position is almost tailor-made to be in the interest of the well-connected big businesses that benefit from and advocate for many of its policy implications. That's where the whole bit about "implied consensus" comes into play, whether or not the notional positions align with that. It's not far from what many American politicians do, for that matter. If you read their positions off a list of what they claim to support, it all looks really agreeable and supportive of the right things. But then there's a strange unwillingness to actually work in the direction of meaningfully implementing those things, instead creating something very much in line with the more centrist position. When someone says they want X, but they're not willing to support any actions that are needed to achieve X, one would rightly conclude that their support for X is actually very loosely held and easily bargained away. Sure, you occasionally want to compromise in the short term, but if you compromise every single time, one would rightly assume that you're either lying about what you're willing to support, or too cowardly to deviate from the status quo. Faux pragmatism is often used to justify both of these positions, but it becomes clear that it's not really pragmatism that drives these positions if you push back on it. I am also aware that people don't like labels that paint them in an unflattering light, even when such labels are accurate. How can you write so much bullshit, it is unbelievable.
Especially considering that what you advocate for the "desired change" is the fucking guillotine. Do we have to chose between being an immature """revolutionary"""" with or without psychopathic tendencies or be labelled with the term "neoliberal"? I mean, if I follow you that's the choice.
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According to 538, we are most likely heading for a blue wave. The voter turnout is huge, which is horrible news for Trump and good polsters give fantastic numbers to Biden. Just hoping that he wins the senate too.
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On October 28 2020 23:02 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2020 22:57 Nevuk wrote: 7 Trump rallygoers have been hospitalized due to the cold and 30 are being monitored, per several sites, but most are citing Omaha Scanner.
So, ordinarily I'd say this isn't Trump's fault, but reading the details it 100% is. He bussed the supporters in, but didn't provide enough busses to get them out. As discussed lower in your post, the claim is that the number of buses wasn't the problem. Do you know if the problem actually was the roadways, and where the responsibility lies for that? I mean I don't really care but I agree we should be cautious about blaming Trump's campaign if it actually wasn't their fault or not blaming Trump if it was their fault. On the other hand, the Biden campaign should totally make a huge deal out of this and accuse Trump of recklessly freezing his own supporters to death, even if they have insider knowledge that it wasn't Trump's fault, because that's still only a tenth as bad as what the Trump campaign would do to them if the situation was reversed... that's the state of campaigning these days. Show nested quote +Why was Trump in Nebraska anyways? That seems way crazier than any of Biden's movements. Trump is probably insisting on friendly crowds to recharge.
edit: Apologies on the length of this post... didn't realize how long it had gotten. There's lots of news today, since it's so close to election.
Right, I included that bit as it's the only response from the Trump campaign so far.
Now, it may not have been INTENTIONAL, but it is a fact that the campaign didn't provide enough buses to get them back out without waiting for several hours in the cold or walking 3.7 miles in the cold, but did provide enough to get them there in the first place.
Newsweek's writeup is a lot more blistering but is mostly just a compilation of tweets and has no counterpoint from Trump's campaign, and caps off with this tweet from a Chicago Tribune reporter, which doesn't contradict the Trump campaign's response, really.
Here's the most factual portion of the newsweek writeup:
"Parking at the Trump rally is full," Omaha Police Department tweeted just after 6 p.m.
"Shuttles will no longer be transporting people to the event. You will not be able to access the rally by foot, Uber, or any other means of transportation. Parking is not allowed in surrounding neighborhoods, roadways or businesses."
By 9 p.m. the event ended but many faced a 3.7-mile walk from TAC Air to the South Economy parking lot at Eppley.
"Officers picking up people wandering in the cold unable to locate their vehicles and are taking them to various parking lots," local news provider Omaha Scanner tweeted.
"Officers who do not have an assignment are going around to parking lots to pick up stranded people and attempt to locate their vehicles. Airport maintenance vehicles also assisting," the account said. https://www.newsweek.com/omaha-trump-rally-attendees-stranded-several-taken-hospital-suffering-hypothermia-1542741
Omaha scanner is probably the best place to go if you want the original accounting of things. They seem to be one of those news twitter accounts that basically retweets what they hear on the police scanner. They noted that officers believed 30 more buses were needed at one point.
Here's their thread reporting on the matter :
Some other items -
The Trump WH is listing among their first term accomplishments that they've ended covid. That's crazy, because we're experiencing record days. When pressed on CNN’s New Day by anchor Alisyn Camerota today, the spokesperson for the Trump campaign said he didn't "want to quibble over semantics" on covid.
Giuliani ragequit a fox news interview last night after his reporting was compared to the Steele Dossier in level of proof. He also got questioned about the Borat thing by the host, Kennedy, who noted that having a 15 year old daughter made the scene super uncomfortable for her. So the Hunter Biden thing is uh, not going well for them (politico has an article about how difficult of a time they're having finding any reputable outlet willing to cover it) There's this hilarious exchange from the interview:
“You think [the New York Post is] printing false material? You think Rupert Murdoch would let them print false material? Just because I gave it to them. You think I’m an idiot that I’m going to print false material?”
A Blaze (founded by Glenn Beck, I think? It's a conservative site that used to be less Trump friendly than others) reporter is saying that he was beaten up by BLM protesters for being white. Now, I'm not sure how he knows they were BLM protestors doing it because he was white, but he does say other journalists were filming so more details will emerge I'm sure. Given previous bad faith behavior by RW journalists on this type of thing, I'm advising extreme caution. (There's also the possibility that his accounting could be mistaken in good faith, given the chaotic situation described).
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Yeah this whole Trump vs reality ordeal is consistently reaching Baghdad Bob levels. Farce is too weak a word.
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On October 28 2020 23:30 JimmiC wrote:Don't worry guys Covid is over Trump has defeated it. I guess when your whole strategy is centered around making things up and you have already claimed their will be a vaccine by election why not go all the way and simply say that it is over and no longer a problem. If people are willing to believe complete bullshit why not this? It is really mind boggling that this guy and this administration is running the US. https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-administration-wrongly-claims-it-has-ended-covid-19-pandemic-2020-10
I actually don't think they expect very many to believe that. Quite often, they say something outrageous just to keep their opponents busy and distracting from something worse. This should be the case, even though I am not sure what that "something" is this time around, with several options available.
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On October 29 2020 00:03 Slydie wrote:I actually don't think they expect very many to believe that. Quite often, they say something outrageous just to keep their opponents busy and distracting from something worse. This should be the case, even though I am not sure what that "something" is this time around, with several options available. Maybe, that thing must be absolutely massive, because Covid is killing him and you would think you want to distract from it not bring attention to it. As unbelievable as it is I think they might think people will believe it. They seem to legitimately not understand that they do not control the media like the "sharp as a tact" leaders like Xi Putin and Jong-un and it won't work. I have no faith that what they do is strategy at this point, none of it appears to be.
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This year is too different for me to apply previous election trends to things like voter turnout, demographics, and the like. I want blue Texas to happen so badly but at this point, I'm throwing my hands in the air and saying that I have no clue if that's going to happen.
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United Kingdom13774 Posts
On October 29 2020 00:51 plasmidghost wrote: This year is too different for me to apply previous election trends to things like voter turnout, demographics, and the like. I want blue Texas to happen so badly but at this point, I'm throwing my hands in the air and saying that I have no clue if that's going to happen. Strange as it is, Biden has about as much of a chance as winning Texas as Trump has of winning Arizona. It could certainly happen if it ends up playing out as a last-minute shift blueward similar to what Obama saw after "47 percent" in 2012.
The reverse trend of a similar magnitude, as in 2016, could of course instead lead to Biden losing Pennsylvania and subsequently the election.
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Trump's basically only argument, the stock market, is tumbling today. DJIA is down 800 points so far. Jim Cramer is crediting the lack of a stimulus with the reason why it's falling. I hate Cramer, but he's probably right.
U.S. stocks fell sharply on Wednesday, following their European counterparts, as investors worried that the latest increase in coronavirus infections could halt the global economic recovery.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 823 points, or 3%. The S&P 500 dipped 2.9% and the Nasdaq Composite traded 3% lower.
In Europe, the German Dax index dropped 4.4% to its lowest level since late May and the French CAC 40 slid 4%. The FTSE 100 in London fell 3.2%.
This uptick has led some countries to reinstate certain social distancing measures. German Chancellor Angela Merkel called on Wednesday for a limited lockdown. Meanwhile, Reuters reported, citing sources, that France was poised to issue a stay-at-home order. In the U.S., the state of Illinois has ordered Chicago to shut down indoor dining.
U.S. coronavirus cases have risen by a record daily average of 71,832 over the past week, data compiled by Johns Hopkins University showed. Meanwhile, coronavirus-related hospitalizations are up 5% or more in three dozen states, according to data from the Covid Tracking Project.
“I think there’s going to be a call for lockdowns the likes of which we’ve seen in Chicago,” CNBC’s Jim Cramer said Wednesday. “The lockdowns without the stimulus equals what we’re seeing.”
“It’s a shame because, had there been stimulus, we’d then be focusing on earnings and the earnings are actually pretty darn good,” he said.
Stocks that would be hurt most by lockdowns or a slowdown in the economy reopening were hit. Shares of Delta Air Lines fell 6.2%. Royal Caribbean shares lost 5.8%. Shares of Facebook, Alphabet and Twitter were also down sharply as their respective CEOs testified in front of Senate members. Facebook and Twitter were off by 4% and 3.7%, respectively, and Alphabet slid nearly 5%. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/27/stock-market-futures-open-to-close-news.html
(I think Jack Dorsey is talking to congress atm but I don't have time to watch it. Zuckerberg was planned for earlier but had tech issues, I've read? May still happen after he gets his net fixed).
On October 29 2020 00:51 plasmidghost wrote: This year is too different for me to apply previous election trends to things like voter turnout, demographics, and the like. I want blue Texas to happen so badly but at this point, I'm throwing my hands in the air and saying that I have no clue if that's going to happen. Turnout is going to up, way up from 2016.
The only confusing thing will be mail-in ballots. Is that voting early? When is it counted? Etc. Because it varies from state to state. That poll where democrats said they were going to directly drop off their ballots at 16% vs 7% for republicans was from the beginning of October, and that was before the recent headlines I've been seeing warning democrats to do that.
It remains to be seen if 2018 turnout increase will be beaten due to Covid, though (it went from 36% 2014 -> 50% 2018 . 2016 was 55%. Milennial's were the largest voting bloc in 2018 and went from 24% in 2016 to 40% in 2018, and CNN reports that the early voting surge is driven by <30 voters https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/25/politics/pre-election-voting-surpasses-2016-early-ballots/index.html ).
This is from yesterday and has total early voting so far: 55% of total votes in 2016 have already been cast in battleground states. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/27/us/politics/election-voter-turnout.html
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On October 29 2020 01:12 Nevuk wrote:Trump's basically only argument, the stock market, is tumbling today. DJIA is down 800 points so far. Jim Cramer is crediting the lack of a stimulus with the reason why it's falling. I hate Cramer, but he's probably right. Show nested quote +U.S. stocks fell sharply on Wednesday, following their European counterparts, as investors worried that the latest increase in coronavirus infections could halt the global economic recovery.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped 823 points, or 3%. The S&P 500 dipped 2.9% and the Nasdaq Composite traded 3% lower.
In Europe, the German Dax index dropped 4.4% to its lowest level since late May and the French CAC 40 slid 4%. The FTSE 100 in London fell 3.2%.
This uptick has led some countries to reinstate certain social distancing measures. German Chancellor Angela Merkel called on Wednesday for a limited lockdown. Meanwhile, Reuters reported, citing sources, that France was poised to issue a stay-at-home order. In the U.S., the state of Illinois has ordered Chicago to shut down indoor dining.
U.S. coronavirus cases have risen by a record daily average of 71,832 over the past week, data compiled by Johns Hopkins University showed. Meanwhile, coronavirus-related hospitalizations are up 5% or more in three dozen states, according to data from the Covid Tracking Project.
“I think there’s going to be a call for lockdowns the likes of which we’ve seen in Chicago,” CNBC’s Jim Cramer said Wednesday. “The lockdowns without the stimulus equals what we’re seeing.”
“It’s a shame because, had there been stimulus, we’d then be focusing on earnings and the earnings are actually pretty darn good,” he said.
Stocks that would be hurt most by lockdowns or a slowdown in the economy reopening were hit. Shares of Delta Air Lines fell 6.2%. Royal Caribbean shares lost 5.8%. Shares of Facebook, Alphabet and Twitter were also down sharply as their respective CEOs testified in front of Senate members. Facebook and Twitter were off by 4% and 3.7%, respectively, and Alphabet slid nearly 5%. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/27/stock-market-futures-open-to-close-news.html(I think Jack Dorsey is talking to congress atm but I don't have time to watch it. Zuckerberg was planned for earlier but had tech issues, I've read? May still happen after he gets his net fixed). Show nested quote +On October 29 2020 00:51 plasmidghost wrote: This year is too different for me to apply previous election trends to things like voter turnout, demographics, and the like. I want blue Texas to happen so badly but at this point, I'm throwing my hands in the air and saying that I have no clue if that's going to happen. Turnout is going to up, way up from 2016. The only confusing thing will be mail-in ballots. Is that voting early? When is it counted? Etc. Because it varies from state to state. That poll where democrats said they were going to directly drop off their ballots at 16% vs 7% for republicans was from the beginning of October, and that was before the recent headlines I've been seeing warning democrats to do that. It remains to be seen if 2018 turnout increase will be beaten due to Covid, though (it went from 36% 2014 -> 50% 2018 . 2016 was 55%. Milennial's were the largest voting bloc in 2018 and went from 24% in 2016 to 40% in 2018, and CNN reports that the early voting surge is driven by <30 voters https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/25/politics/pre-election-voting-surpasses-2016-early-ballots/index.html ). This is from yesterday and has total early voting so far: 55% of total votes in 2016 have already been cast in battleground states. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/27/us/politics/election-voter-turnout.html I'm still extremely impressed with the total turnout from people across the nation. Here it's at almost 50% of all RVs (46% as of end of voting Monday).
Also, finally! Dems have a massive untapped vein of blue voters along the Rio Grande Valley and I'm glad they're finally paying attention to it
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The national guard were called into Philadelphia last night. Rioters and looters smashed shops, stole stuff. This followed a police shooting of a man armed with a knife that refused to drop it.
Kinda quiet for major unrest in a city in Pennsylvania. The story of buses delayed on jammed roads unable to give Trump supporters a ride home was all that I heard talked about. 30 officers injured. 11 people shot in looting areas.
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Things are getting even more interesting in Florida. Another tight race for sure. What remains to be seen is how many people are going to return their mail votes in-person
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On October 29 2020 01:35 Danglars wrote: The national guard were called into Philadelphia last night. Rioters and looters smashed shops, stole stuff. This followed a police shooting of a man armed with a knife that refused to drop it.
Kinda quiet for major unrest in a city in Pennsylvania. The story of buses delayed on jammed roads unable to give Trump supporters a ride home was all that I heard talked about. 30 officers injured. 11 people shot in looting areas. I mentioned a bit about it on the last page, the blaze reporter who said he was attacked was at this.
There's just so much news today that the Philly unrest is small potatoes on the national scale, I think.
This is something that I thought had already been reported, but I guess it wasn't totally confirmed yet. NYT is reporting that Justice Kennedy's son was responsible for getting Trump a loan from Deustche Bank in 2005, despite Trump's chronic defaulting of loans (this is also lines up with reports that Kennedy's other son had dinner with Trump's staff after the inauguration where they told him that Kennedy's happiness at Trump's win would be rewarded). Makes the Kavanaugh appointment look even more like a quid pro quo than before (Kavanaugh was a former Kennedy clerk).
The other part of the taxes is that Trump had 270 million in loans forgiven after the Chicago tower failed to offer the promised return, by some future members of his administration. I'm pretty sure we've never had any politician this openly corrupt in the US, not even the ridiculous cabinets of the teapot dome scandals or Grant's infamous one.
But Mr. Trump’s federal tax returns, as well as loan documents filed in Cook County, Ill., provide clues to what happened: Mr. Trump was let off the hook for about $270 million. It was the type of generous financial break that few American companies or individuals could ever expect to receive, especially without filing for bankruptcy protection.
Before Mr. Trump defaulted, Fortress had expected to receive more than $300 million from his company: the $130 million in principal and roughly $185 million in anticipated interest and fees.
But Fortress and its partners — including Mr. Mnuchin’s Dune Capital, as well as Cerberus Capital Management, whose co-chief executive, Stephen A. Feinberg, would become a major Trump fund-raiser and go on to lead a White House advisory panel — quickly realized they wouldn’t ever collect that full amount.
Ultimately, Fortress settled for $48 million, which Mr. Trump wired to the firm in March 2012, according to people familiar with the deal.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/business/trump-chicago-taxes.html
Also, Farenthold got ahold of some more of Trump's self-serving government dealings. So yes, another straw on the mountain of evidence of Trump corruption.
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Bisutopia19035 Posts
On October 29 2020 01:35 Danglars wrote: The national guard were called into Philadelphia last night. Rioters and looters smashed shops, stole stuff. This followed a police shooting of a man armed with a knife that refused to drop it.
Kinda quiet for major unrest in a city in Pennsylvania. The story of buses delayed on jammed roads unable to give Trump supporters a ride home was all that I heard talked about. 30 officers injured. 11 people shot in looting areas. This morning it was the top story on FOX and on CNN you had to scroll through about 20 stories on the front page and the article on CNN didn't discuss any of the injuries to police officers or the looting. It's a terrible incident that occurred that makes me upset as I was about the NY incident, but to have no regard for officer's lives or business owners is just sickening too.
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On October 29 2020 01:35 Danglars wrote: The national guard were called into Philadelphia last night. Rioters and looters smashed shops, stole stuff. This followed a police shooting of a man armed with a knife that refused to drop it.
Kinda quiet for major unrest in a city in Pennsylvania. The story of buses delayed on jammed roads unable to give Trump supporters a ride home was all that I heard talked about. 30 officers injured. 11 people shot in looting areas.
This story was all over most major news outlets (NYT, NPR, etc.).
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Bisutopia19035 Posts
On October 29 2020 01:53 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2020 01:35 Danglars wrote: The national guard were called into Philadelphia last night. Rioters and looters smashed shops, stole stuff. This followed a police shooting of a man armed with a knife that refused to drop it.
Kinda quiet for major unrest in a city in Pennsylvania. The story of buses delayed on jammed roads unable to give Trump supporters a ride home was all that I heard talked about. 30 officers injured. 11 people shot in looting areas. I mentioned a bit about it on the last page, the blaze reporter who said he was attacked was at this. There's just so much news today that the Philly unrest is small potatoes on the national scale, I think. This is something that I thought had already been reported, but I guess it wasn't totally confirmed yet. NYT is reporting that Justice Kennedy's son was responsible for getting Trump a loan from Deustche Bank in 2005, despite Trump's chronic defaulting of loans (this is also lines up with reports that Kennedy's other son had dinner with Trump's staff after the inauguration where they told him that Kennedy's happiness at Trump's win would be rewarded). Makes the Kavanaugh appointment look even more like a quid pro quo than before (Kavanaugh was a former Kennedy clerk). The other part of the taxes is that Trump had 270 million in loans forgiven after the Chicago tower failed to offer the promised return, by some future members of his administration. I'm pretty sure we've never had any politician this openly corrupt in the US, not even the ridiculous cabinets of the teapot dome scandals or Grant's infamous one. Show nested quote +But Mr. Trump’s federal tax returns, as well as loan documents filed in Cook County, Ill., provide clues to what happened: Mr. Trump was let off the hook for about $270 million. It was the type of generous financial break that few American companies or individuals could ever expect to receive, especially without filing for bankruptcy protection.
Before Mr. Trump defaulted, Fortress had expected to receive more than $300 million from his company: the $130 million in principal and roughly $185 million in anticipated interest and fees.
But Fortress and its partners — including Mr. Mnuchin’s Dune Capital, as well as Cerberus Capital Management, whose co-chief executive, Stephen A. Feinberg, would become a major Trump fund-raiser and go on to lead a White House advisory panel — quickly realized they wouldn’t ever collect that full amount.
Ultimately, Fortress settled for $48 million, which Mr. Trump wired to the firm in March 2012, according to people familiar with the deal.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/business/trump-chicago-taxes.htmlAlso, Farenthold got ahold of some more of Trump's self-serving government dealings. So yes, another straw on the mountain of evidence of Trump corruption. https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/1321457820714340352 Don't bring Grant into this. He was just protecting the interest of Whiskey dealers. That's being a true American.
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