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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
The US president who reportedly hid in an underground bunker made a scathing call to the country's governors, calling them "weak."
JUST IN: President Trump unloads on the nation's governors on a call, calls on them to step up enforcement: "You have to dominate, if you don’t dominate you’re wasting your time. They’re going to run over you, you’re going to look like a bunch of jerks. You have to dominate."
In audio obtained by @CBSNews, Trump tells governors: "Washington was under very good control, but we’re going to have it under much more control. We’re going to pull in thousands of people."
Trump tells governors: "You’ve got to arrest people, you have to track people, you have to put them in jail for 10 years and you’ll never see this stuff again," per audio obtained by @CBSNews
One person listening in on the call describes the president's words and tone as "unhinged."
On the call, Trump references Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Milley and Attorney General Bill Barr. "We will activate Bill Barr and activate him very strongly," Trump says.
Trump tells governors later: "You’re making a mistake because you're making yourselves look like fools. And some have done a great job. But a lot of you, it’s not – it’s not a great day for our country."
Trump adds: "You know when other countries watch this, they’re watching this, the next day wow, they’re really a push over. And we can’t be a push over. And we have all the resources – it’s not like we don’t have the resources. So, I don’t know what you’re doing."
https://twitter.com/edokeefe/status/1267478663949357057
https://cbsnews.com/news/trump-weak-governors-dominate-civil-unrest-george-floyd-death-protest/
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The bunker thing is a precaution they take for the country's president. The entire liberal media corps thinks this is a dunk on Trump which is about as inanely partisan as it gets.
At some point you have to wonder if the "liberal" part of the media has some sort of central talking point function. But then again it could probably be "uniform but independent" action/follow the leader.
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its not the bunker thing people are dunking on him for, its the statements he made from that bunker.
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On June 02 2020 04:45 Doodsmack wrote:
The bunker thing is a precaution they take for the country's president. The entire liberal media corps thinks this is a dunk on Trump which is about as inanely partisan as it gets.
No matter how you slice it, Trump being carried into a bunker is a huge slam dunk for someone who's ego can't even tolerate wearing a mask. He is a deeply insecure man and being hurried away due to minority inspired protests is glorious in many ways for me. For a man who has created so much fear, I struggle to feel bad for him. It wouldn't be nearly as symbolic for anyone else, but he's consistently tried to use 1800s ideas of bravado to describe himself. Hiding in a bunker is perfect, whether it was optional or not. Hell it's even better if it wasn't optional
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The President being moved out of the White House during mass civil unrest is a Secret Service thing, not Trump.
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It's not so much that being carted to a bunker is actually an own on Trump, as it is that Trump thinks it's an own, and is now more deranged than ever. It sounds like he thinks this is his last chance to go for a full autocrat power grab. This should be ringing every last alarm bell of anyone who genuinely gives a shit about freedom in America.
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It's short so I'll post the whole thing here, but this the latest report that the death was due to asphyxiation due to pressure as some have suggested here. I don't think that this will raise the charges against the officer, but it does give an opposing autopsy report. It also says that underlying health issues wouldn't have contributed.
An independent autopsy found that George Floyd's death was a homicide and the unarmed black man died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."
The autopsy says compression to Floyd's neck and back led to a lack of blood flow to his brain.
Floyd was essentially "dead on the scene" in Minneapolis on May 25, said Ben Crump, attorney for the Floyd family. Multiple videos of Floyd's death show former police officer Derek Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck, along with other officers kneeling on his back.
Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total and two minutes and 53 seconds after Floyd was unresponsive, according to a criminal complaint released by the Hennepin County Attorney's Office.
"The ambulance was his hearse," Crump told reporters Monday. "George died because he needed a breath. He needed a breath of air."
"There is no other health issue that could cause or contribute to the death," said Dr. Michael Baden, one of the independent medical examiners. "Police have this false impression that if you can talk, you can breathe. That's not true."
CNN reached out to Hennepin County officials after the press conference for comment.
A homicide is the death of a person caused by another person. It includes murder and manslaughter.
Chauvin is charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. Crump said he should be charged with first-degree murder.
The independent autopsy's findings come after the Hennepin County Medical Examiner found "no physical findings" to "support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," according to the criminal complaint.
Preliminary autopsy results cited in the complaint said combined effects of being restrained, any potential intoxicants in Floyd's system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, probably contributed to his death. Toxicology results can take weeks.
Floyd's cause and manner of death remain pending and is being investigated by local, state and federal law enforcement, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office said in a statement.
Source
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On June 02 2020 05:40 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:It's short so I'll post the whole thing here, but this the latest report that the death was due to asphyxiation due to pressure as some have suggested here. I don't think that this will raise the charges against the officer, but it does give an opposing autopsy report. It also says that underlying health issues wouldn't have contributed. Show nested quote +An independent autopsy found that George Floyd's death was a homicide and the unarmed black man died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."
The autopsy says compression to Floyd's neck and back led to a lack of blood flow to his brain.
Floyd was essentially "dead on the scene" in Minneapolis on May 25, said Ben Crump, attorney for the Floyd family. Multiple videos of Floyd's death show former police officer Derek Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck, along with other officers kneeling on his back.
Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total and two minutes and 53 seconds after Floyd was unresponsive, according to a criminal complaint released by the Hennepin County Attorney's Office.
"The ambulance was his hearse," Crump told reporters Monday. "George died because he needed a breath. He needed a breath of air."
"There is no other health issue that could cause or contribute to the death," said Dr. Michael Baden, one of the independent medical examiners. "Police have this false impression that if you can talk, you can breathe. That's not true."
CNN reached out to Hennepin County officials after the press conference for comment.
A homicide is the death of a person caused by another person. It includes murder and manslaughter.
Chauvin is charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. Crump said he should be charged with first-degree murder.
The independent autopsy's findings come after the Hennepin County Medical Examiner found "no physical findings" to "support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," according to the criminal complaint.
Preliminary autopsy results cited in the complaint said combined effects of being restrained, any potential intoxicants in Floyd's system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, probably contributed to his death. Toxicology results can take weeks.
Floyd's cause and manner of death remain pending and is being investigated by local, state and federal law enforcement, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office said in a statement. Source to upgrade to 1st or 2nd degree murder you need to prove the suspect intended to kill, which is really hard to prove as it is a state of mind.
3e degree is for doing something dangerous that ends up killing someone but not setting out to kill which is a lot easier to proof.
PS.
Since someone earlier asked about things happening in other countries. We had a demostration of some 5k people in the Netherlands against the police violence in the US.
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On June 02 2020 05:47 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2020 05:40 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:It's short so I'll post the whole thing here, but this the latest report that the death was due to asphyxiation due to pressure as some have suggested here. I don't think that this will raise the charges against the officer, but it does give an opposing autopsy report. It also says that underlying health issues wouldn't have contributed. An independent autopsy found that George Floyd's death was a homicide and the unarmed black man died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."
The autopsy says compression to Floyd's neck and back led to a lack of blood flow to his brain.
Floyd was essentially "dead on the scene" in Minneapolis on May 25, said Ben Crump, attorney for the Floyd family. Multiple videos of Floyd's death show former police officer Derek Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck, along with other officers kneeling on his back.
Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total and two minutes and 53 seconds after Floyd was unresponsive, according to a criminal complaint released by the Hennepin County Attorney's Office.
"The ambulance was his hearse," Crump told reporters Monday. "George died because he needed a breath. He needed a breath of air."
"There is no other health issue that could cause or contribute to the death," said Dr. Michael Baden, one of the independent medical examiners. "Police have this false impression that if you can talk, you can breathe. That's not true."
CNN reached out to Hennepin County officials after the press conference for comment.
A homicide is the death of a person caused by another person. It includes murder and manslaughter.
Chauvin is charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. Crump said he should be charged with first-degree murder.
The independent autopsy's findings come after the Hennepin County Medical Examiner found "no physical findings" to "support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," according to the criminal complaint.
Preliminary autopsy results cited in the complaint said combined effects of being restrained, any potential intoxicants in Floyd's system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, probably contributed to his death. Toxicology results can take weeks.
Floyd's cause and manner of death remain pending and is being investigated by local, state and federal law enforcement, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office said in a statement. Source to upgrade to 1st or 2nd degree murder you need to prove the suspect intended to kill, which is really hard to prove as it is a state of mind. 3e degree is for doing something dangerous that ends up killing someone but not setting out to kill which is a lot easier to proof. PS. Since someone earlier asked about things happening in other countries. We had a demostration of some 5k people in the Netherlands against the police violence in the US.
I understand the levels of degrees. But I just wanted to state that this won't change what he was charged with. Still doesn't show intent, as you and others have said.
And that was me asking. Was the demonstration peaceful?
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On June 01 2020 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2020 22:41 Artisreal wrote:I can understand that a specific list of demands is not regarded as worthwhile when the excercise has been done to the point of exhaustion over the last decades. Insofar as no ever so detailed list of bullet points will make a difference if the addressee doesn't want to listen. With regard to your question, there was a huge demonstration in front of the US Embassy here in Berlin on saturday - 2,000 protestors - and the following mural was painted in a highly frequented park: Indeed, besides the one I mentioned as the most obvious listed at #1 the rest are old/standard demands that are as I said longstanding locally and nationally. Pretty sure most of the non Cincinnati specific ones have almost all been mentioned here. There's no disputing that the issue is NOT that the demands aren't known/clear. That was thoroughly debunked (here and elsewhere) at least as far back as the Ferguson uprisings. It is clearly a distraction from the intransigence of those in power and their allies. (next comes disputing the plausibility and effectiveness, usually with the old "that doesn't solve everything without any negative consequences and republicans will never allow it" bs) Wall's dope
I agree that past movements didn't fail because of clear demands. Let's make sure clear demands are a big part of this movement. No one is saying clear demands are the only ingredient for change, but they may be one of the fundamental ingredients for change.
I don't think simply repeating "F the system" is gonna do it. It's just gonna encourage more people to 'F the system.' We need to include ideas on how to fix the system, so we can... fix the system.
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On June 02 2020 03:27 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2020 03:15 GreenHorizons wrote:This is a US Senator literally advocating using the military to summarily execute political dissidents "if necessary" whatever that means. And the AG released a statement that the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Forces (JTTF). will be used to label people as terrorists and treat them accordingly. Federal law enforcement actions will be directed at apprehending and charging the violent radical agitators who have hijacked peaceful protest and are engaged in violations of federal law.
To identify criminal organizers and instigators, and to coordinate federal resources with our state and local partners, federal law enforcement is using our existing network of 56 regional FBI Joint Terrorism Task Forces (JTTF).
The violence instigated and carried out by Antifa and other similar groups in connection with the rioting is domestic terrorism and will be treated accordingly.” https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-william-p-barrs-statement-riots-and-domestic-terrorismAlso a lot of relief at the state and federal level is phasing out and rent was due. So things seem to be stabilizing /s Two things that stood out to me: first, Cotton name-checking specific units to score points. It’s not that those specific units are the ones he think should be deployed - he’s just trying to sound like a hard-ass by showing off he knows specific names, while hoping people associated with those units will like the shout-out (picture a rockstar screaming “hello Toronto!” on stage). Second, “treated accordingly” is awfully euphemistic. Does that reference some USA PATRIAT act-type removal of civil rights? Does it just mean “we’ll prosecute them for any crimes they commit?” What exactly is being glosses over with those two words?
"No quarter" means they just kill you and don't arrest you. Of course, it falls withing plausible deniability as the dumb fuck could just not know what he's saying.
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"The system needs to change" is just the "thoughts and prayers" of this situation. We need to get some dialogue started on brainstorming and problem definition or else it's going to be wasted and seen by some as yet another couple weeks of protesting/rioting/looting.
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Demonstrators: "the system is evil"
Response from politicians: speeches about how the system is evil
Demonstrators: "we demand change"
Response from politicians: speeches where they claim to demand change
Demonstrators: "Here are specific changes we demand, lets create a timeline and goals for each one of these, we demand a response addressing these exact demands, the implementation, nuances, etc... the balls in your court"
Response from politicians:
A: "Ok we will address these demands you have rallied around and create a timeline, goals and address nuances"
B: "We will address these... eventually, but we wont get into any details about how and probably wont actually do them"
Our goal is A. Now lets do a little less yelling "the system of evil" (even though it feels good) and a little more rallying around goals. We need to give politicians demands now for quick goals they can do (like arresting the other cops), hear their explanation for why they haven't yet, and negotiate to make sure we are getting towards A and not B.
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On June 02 2020 05:53 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2020 05:47 Gorsameth wrote:On June 02 2020 05:40 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:It's short so I'll post the whole thing here, but this the latest report that the death was due to asphyxiation due to pressure as some have suggested here. I don't think that this will raise the charges against the officer, but it does give an opposing autopsy report. It also says that underlying health issues wouldn't have contributed. An independent autopsy found that George Floyd's death was a homicide and the unarmed black man died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."
The autopsy says compression to Floyd's neck and back led to a lack of blood flow to his brain.
Floyd was essentially "dead on the scene" in Minneapolis on May 25, said Ben Crump, attorney for the Floyd family. Multiple videos of Floyd's death show former police officer Derek Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck, along with other officers kneeling on his back.
Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total and two minutes and 53 seconds after Floyd was unresponsive, according to a criminal complaint released by the Hennepin County Attorney's Office.
"The ambulance was his hearse," Crump told reporters Monday. "George died because he needed a breath. He needed a breath of air."
"There is no other health issue that could cause or contribute to the death," said Dr. Michael Baden, one of the independent medical examiners. "Police have this false impression that if you can talk, you can breathe. That's not true."
CNN reached out to Hennepin County officials after the press conference for comment.
A homicide is the death of a person caused by another person. It includes murder and manslaughter.
Chauvin is charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. Crump said he should be charged with first-degree murder.
The independent autopsy's findings come after the Hennepin County Medical Examiner found "no physical findings" to "support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," according to the criminal complaint.
Preliminary autopsy results cited in the complaint said combined effects of being restrained, any potential intoxicants in Floyd's system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, probably contributed to his death. Toxicology results can take weeks.
Floyd's cause and manner of death remain pending and is being investigated by local, state and federal law enforcement, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office said in a statement. Source to upgrade to 1st or 2nd degree murder you need to prove the suspect intended to kill, which is really hard to prove as it is a state of mind. 3e degree is for doing something dangerous that ends up killing someone but not setting out to kill which is a lot easier to proof. PS. Since someone earlier asked about things happening in other countries. We had a demostration of some 5k people in the Netherlands against the police violence in the US. I understand the levels of degrees. But I just wanted to state that this won't change what he was charged with. Still doesn't show intent, as you and others have said. And that was me asking. Was the demonstration peaceful?
Entirely peaceful, as far as I've read.
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On June 02 2020 05:53 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2020 05:47 Gorsameth wrote:On June 02 2020 05:40 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:It's short so I'll post the whole thing here, but this the latest report that the death was due to asphyxiation due to pressure as some have suggested here. I don't think that this will raise the charges against the officer, but it does give an opposing autopsy report. It also says that underlying health issues wouldn't have contributed. An independent autopsy found that George Floyd's death was a homicide and the unarmed black man died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."
The autopsy says compression to Floyd's neck and back led to a lack of blood flow to his brain.
Floyd was essentially "dead on the scene" in Minneapolis on May 25, said Ben Crump, attorney for the Floyd family. Multiple videos of Floyd's death show former police officer Derek Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck, along with other officers kneeling on his back.
Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total and two minutes and 53 seconds after Floyd was unresponsive, according to a criminal complaint released by the Hennepin County Attorney's Office.
"The ambulance was his hearse," Crump told reporters Monday. "George died because he needed a breath. He needed a breath of air."
"There is no other health issue that could cause or contribute to the death," said Dr. Michael Baden, one of the independent medical examiners. "Police have this false impression that if you can talk, you can breathe. That's not true."
CNN reached out to Hennepin County officials after the press conference for comment.
A homicide is the death of a person caused by another person. It includes murder and manslaughter.
Chauvin is charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. Crump said he should be charged with first-degree murder.
The independent autopsy's findings come after the Hennepin County Medical Examiner found "no physical findings" to "support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," according to the criminal complaint.
Preliminary autopsy results cited in the complaint said combined effects of being restrained, any potential intoxicants in Floyd's system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, probably contributed to his death. Toxicology results can take weeks.
Floyd's cause and manner of death remain pending and is being investigated by local, state and federal law enforcement, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office said in a statement. Source to upgrade to 1st or 2nd degree murder you need to prove the suspect intended to kill, which is really hard to prove as it is a state of mind. 3e degree is for doing something dangerous that ends up killing someone but not setting out to kill which is a lot easier to proof. PS. Since someone earlier asked about things happening in other countries. We had a demostration of some 5k people in the Netherlands against the police violence in the US. I understand the levels of degrees. But I just wanted to state that this won't change what he was charged with. Still doesn't show intent, as you and others have said. And that was me asking. Was the demonstration peaceful? Yes it was peaceful. The police and local government obviously wasn't happy about that many people together but they were not prepared for a demonstration of that size (they expected hundreds, not thousands) so there wasnt much they could do to break it up even if they wanted to.
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On June 02 2020 05:53 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2020 05:47 Gorsameth wrote:On June 02 2020 05:40 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:It's short so I'll post the whole thing here, but this the latest report that the death was due to asphyxiation due to pressure as some have suggested here. I don't think that this will raise the charges against the officer, but it does give an opposing autopsy report. It also says that underlying health issues wouldn't have contributed. An independent autopsy found that George Floyd's death was a homicide and the unarmed black man died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure."
The autopsy says compression to Floyd's neck and back led to a lack of blood flow to his brain.
Floyd was essentially "dead on the scene" in Minneapolis on May 25, said Ben Crump, attorney for the Floyd family. Multiple videos of Floyd's death show former police officer Derek Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck, along with other officers kneeling on his back.
Chauvin had his knee on Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total and two minutes and 53 seconds after Floyd was unresponsive, according to a criminal complaint released by the Hennepin County Attorney's Office.
"The ambulance was his hearse," Crump told reporters Monday. "George died because he needed a breath. He needed a breath of air."
"There is no other health issue that could cause or contribute to the death," said Dr. Michael Baden, one of the independent medical examiners. "Police have this false impression that if you can talk, you can breathe. That's not true."
CNN reached out to Hennepin County officials after the press conference for comment.
A homicide is the death of a person caused by another person. It includes murder and manslaughter.
Chauvin is charged with third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. Crump said he should be charged with first-degree murder.
The independent autopsy's findings come after the Hennepin County Medical Examiner found "no physical findings" to "support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation," according to the criminal complaint.
Preliminary autopsy results cited in the complaint said combined effects of being restrained, any potential intoxicants in Floyd's system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, probably contributed to his death. Toxicology results can take weeks.
Floyd's cause and manner of death remain pending and is being investigated by local, state and federal law enforcement, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office said in a statement. Source to upgrade to 1st or 2nd degree murder you need to prove the suspect intended to kill, which is really hard to prove as it is a state of mind. 3e degree is for doing something dangerous that ends up killing someone but not setting out to kill which is a lot easier to proof. PS. Since someone earlier asked about things happening in other countries. We had a demostration of some 5k people in the Netherlands against the police violence in the US. And that was me asking. Was the demonstration peaceful?
It was fine but there's a very big political controversy now that it was allowed to grow so big, because the corona risks. Any big gathering is still prohibited here.
The organizers are a not very popular group who expected like less than 100 so that it became 5000 is a sign of how impactful the images of Floyds death and the movement it created in the US are I guess.
+ Show Spoiler +
edit: slowest typing dutchie award for me
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This is a follow up to someone who posted earlier about trump's encouragement of using the military (The Insurrection Act) to quell the riots and protests going on throughout the country. I'm not 100% sure this is a good idea, because it'll invoke comparisons to the 60s and of the 92 riots. I don't think it's entirely necessary as well, since most states are close to being fully reopen amid the pandemic, so who's to know how much longer a lot of this will continue in the first place. But if this does get ordered, then the shit will really hit the fan and we can expect more deaths of protestors being reported.
WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump is considering invoking a 213-year-old federal law that would allow him to deploy active-duty U.S. troops to respond to protests in cities across the country, according to four people familiar with the internal White House discussions.
Trump has warmed to the idea of using the Insurrection Act, a law first adopted in 1807, to deploy troops as his frustrations mount over continued protests in response to the death of George Floyd, a black Minneapolis man who was killed by a white police officer.
Some of the president's aides have been encouraging him for days to invoke the act, as he weighs options for exercising executive powers to address the crisis.
The White House did not respond to a request for comment for this story but at a briefing with reporters Monday, White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany left open the possibility that the president could invoke the Act.
"The Insurrection Act, it's one of the tools available, whether the president decides to pursue that, that's his prerogative," McEnany said.
Governors can request the federal government send active duty troops to help in cases of civil unrest like the widespread protests plaguing U.S. cities. But, so far, no state governors have requested active duty troops to assist and instead have relied on local law enforcement and National Guard soldiers and airmen on state active duty.
Source
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On June 02 2020 06:15 puppykiller wrote:
Demonstrators: "the system is evil"
Response from politicians: speeches about how the system is evil
Demonstrators: "we demand change"
Response from politicians: speeches where they claim to demand change
Demonstrators: "Here are specific changes we demand, lets create a timeline and goals for each one of these, we demand a response addressing these exact demands, the implementation, nuances, etc... the balls in your court"
Response from politicians:
A: "Ok we will address these demands you have rallied around and create a timeline, goals and address nuances"
B: "We will address these... eventually, but we wont get into any details about how and probably wont actually do them"
Our goal is A. Now lets do a little less yelling "the system of evil" (even though it feels good) and a little more rallying around goals. We need to give politicians demands now for quick goals they can do (like arresting the other cops), hear their explanation for why they haven't yet, and negotiate to make sure we are getting towards A and not B.
Demands have been made before and been ignored or, when changes are put in place, our glorious leader decided to scrap them. This is no longer a good faith argument.
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On June 02 2020 07:02 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2020 06:15 puppykiller wrote:
Demonstrators: "the system is evil"
Response from politicians: speeches about how the system is evil
Demonstrators: "we demand change"
Response from politicians: speeches where they claim to demand change
Demonstrators: "Here are specific changes we demand, lets create a timeline and goals for each one of these, we demand a response addressing these exact demands, the implementation, nuances, etc... the balls in your court"
Response from politicians:
A: "Ok we will address these demands you have rallied around and create a timeline, goals and address nuances"
B: "We will address these... eventually, but we wont get into any details about how and probably wont actually do them"
Our goal is A. Now lets do a little less yelling "the system of evil" (even though it feels good) and a little more rallying around goals. We need to give politicians demands now for quick goals they can do (like arresting the other cops), hear their explanation for why they haven't yet, and negotiate to make sure we are getting towards A and not B. Demands have been made before and been ignored or, when changes are put in place, our glorious leader decided to scrap them. This is no longer a good faith argument.
I was scratching my head earlier how to express my thoughts properly in a reply and this puts it quite nicely. How can I take this train of thought serious anymore if we've been over it oh so many times already...
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/5056390df9f54cc00dc63a9c819e8872e00e7e6b/0_76_3500_2102/master/3500.jpg?width=620&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=1b7e7c44a2d9a545cb9b9778d7b54bdd)
![[image loading]](https://nos.nl/data/image/2020/06/01/653322/1920x1080a.jpg)
