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On April 08 2020 01:33 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2020 01:31 Nevuk wrote:
My understanding is that there's a general election going on as well, and it's got some very critical positions up - like state supreme court (who helped enforce this farce). So Republicans are desperate to have it happen today, when the fewest people possible are likely to vote as this always helps them. I'm not totally sure of this calculus since so many people are unemployed, but they're operating like it's a normal situation.
Cancelling the democratic primary would probably hand over all the elections to the GOP, is probably the current thinking - it's exactly what the republicans would want.
Now, it may be morally correct to cancel them anyway, but short of a black tie riot like republicans pulled to delay Florida recounts in 2000, there's not really anything that could delay the general elections. So they can delay and are choosing not to for political expediency? That sounds like a gross moral abdication.
It will depend on various laws and contracts somewhat. It's a private party having their elections held by public officials, so there's likely some sort of contract between the two about how/when to move the dates and penalties for violations on either end.
I'm no expert on Wisconsin contract law, but it likely would not be EASY to move them. The main reason why you didn't see any push from the state DNC was likely due to the political expediency factors (though the governor pushing so hard for it likely prevented them from objecting, and it could be taken as tacit approval that they didn't push back), and it's definitely why you didn't see any push from the national DNC (punishment for not moving, etc.)
The DNC could probably have said "we won't count any votes in the primary today as mattering" a few days ago, but they might not have thought that the US and WI SC would be so sociopathic as to let people die to get slightly better chance at a supreme court seat in Wisconsin, and the actual decision didn't come until yesterday. That's the more charitable interpretation of their actions though, and I'm not sure I buy it based on their past behavior.
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On April 08 2020 01:46 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2020 01:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2020 01:31 Nevuk wrote:
My understanding is that there's a general election going on as well, and it's got some very critical positions up - like state supreme court (who helped enforce this farce). So Republicans are desperate to have it happen today, when the fewest people possible are likely to vote as this always helps them. I'm not totally sure of this calculus since so many people are unemployed, but they're operating like it's a normal situation.
Cancelling the democratic primary would probably hand over all the elections to the GOP, is probably the current thinking - it's exactly what the republicans would want.
Now, it may be morally correct to cancel them anyway, but short of a black tie riot like republicans pulled to delay Florida recounts in 2000, there's not really anything that could delay the general elections. So they can delay and are choosing not to for political expediency? That sounds like a gross moral abdication. It will depend on various laws and contracts somewhat. It's a private party having their elections held by public officials, so there's likely some sort of contract between the two about how/when to move the dates and penalties for violations on either end. I'm no expert on Wisconsin contract law, but it likely would not be EASY to move them. The main reason why you didn't see any push from the state DNC was likely due to the political expediency factors (though the governor pushing so hard for it likely prevented them from objecting, and it could be taken as tacit approval that they didn't push back), and it's definitely why you didn't see any push from the national DNC (punishment for not moving, etc.) The DNC could probably have said "we won't count any votes in the primary today as mattering" a few days ago, but they might not have thought that the US and WI SC would be so sociopathic as to let people die to get slightly better chance at a supreme court seat in Wisconsin, and the actual decision didn't come until yesterday. That's the more charitable interpretation of their actions though, and I'm not sure I buy it based on their past behavior.
I certainly don't buy it. Even granting it, it's an unacceptable excuse imo. As far as I'm concerned Biden is just as culpable as anyone else since he refused to call for the primary to be delayed.
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On April 08 2020 01:46 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2020 01:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2020 01:31 Nevuk wrote:
My understanding is that there's a general election going on as well, and it's got some very critical positions up - like state supreme court (who helped enforce this farce). So Republicans are desperate to have it happen today, when the fewest people possible are likely to vote as this always helps them. I'm not totally sure of this calculus since so many people are unemployed, but they're operating like it's a normal situation.
Cancelling the democratic primary would probably hand over all the elections to the GOP, is probably the current thinking - it's exactly what the republicans would want.
Now, it may be morally correct to cancel them anyway, but short of a black tie riot like republicans pulled to delay Florida recounts in 2000, there's not really anything that could delay the general elections. So they can delay and are choosing not to for political expediency? That sounds like a gross moral abdication. It will depend on various laws and contracts somewhat. It's a private party having their elections held by public officials, so there's likely some sort of contract between the two about how/when to move the dates and penalties for violations on either end. I'm no expert on Wisconsin contract law, but it likely would not be EASY to move them. The main reason why you didn't see any push from the state DNC was likely due to the political expediency factors (though the governor pushing so hard for it likely prevented them from objecting, and it could be taken as tacit approval that they didn't push back), and it's definitely why you didn't see any push from the national DNC (punishment for not moving, etc.) The DNC could probably have said "we won't count any votes in the primary today as mattering" a few days ago, but they might not have thought that the US and WI SC would be so sociopathic as to let people die to get slightly better chance at a supreme court seat in Wisconsin, and the actual decision didn't come until yesterday. That's the more charitable interpretation of their actions though, and I'm not sure I buy it based on their past behavior.
The Wisconsin Democratic party actually supported postponing the election: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/01/wisconsin-dems-support-postponing-spring-elections-160318.
It took until last Friday before Evers tried to change the election to an all mail in election, by calling a special legislative session, which was closed almost immediately by the Republican controlled legislature: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/4/5/21208581/coronavirus-wisconsin-voting-election-primary-republicans-evers.
Then yesterday Evers released an executive order to postpone the election that was immediately overturned by the Republican controlled state supreme court: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/politics/wisconsin-primary-coronavirus/index.html
It's been a ride, but it's clear which side of the political spectrum is trying to force the election to happen today.
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On April 08 2020 01:53 WorthlessSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2020 01:46 Nevuk wrote:On April 08 2020 01:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2020 01:31 Nevuk wrote:
My understanding is that there's a general election going on as well, and it's got some very critical positions up - like state supreme court (who helped enforce this farce). So Republicans are desperate to have it happen today, when the fewest people possible are likely to vote as this always helps them. I'm not totally sure of this calculus since so many people are unemployed, but they're operating like it's a normal situation.
Cancelling the democratic primary would probably hand over all the elections to the GOP, is probably the current thinking - it's exactly what the republicans would want.
Now, it may be morally correct to cancel them anyway, but short of a black tie riot like republicans pulled to delay Florida recounts in 2000, there's not really anything that could delay the general elections. So they can delay and are choosing not to for political expediency? That sounds like a gross moral abdication. It will depend on various laws and contracts somewhat. It's a private party having their elections held by public officials, so there's likely some sort of contract between the two about how/when to move the dates and penalties for violations on either end. I'm no expert on Wisconsin contract law, but it likely would not be EASY to move them. The main reason why you didn't see any push from the state DNC was likely due to the political expediency factors (though the governor pushing so hard for it likely prevented them from objecting, and it could be taken as tacit approval that they didn't push back), and it's definitely why you didn't see any push from the national DNC (punishment for not moving, etc.) The DNC could probably have said "we won't count any votes in the primary today as mattering" a few days ago, but they might not have thought that the US and WI SC would be so sociopathic as to let people die to get slightly better chance at a supreme court seat in Wisconsin, and the actual decision didn't come until yesterday. That's the more charitable interpretation of their actions though, and I'm not sure I buy it based on their past behavior. The Wisconsin Democratic party actually supported postponing the election: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/01/wisconsin-dems-support-postponing-spring-elections-160318. It took until last Friday before Evers tried to change the election to an all mail in election, by calling a special legislative session, which was closed almost immediately by the Republican controlled legislature: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/4/5/21208581/coronavirus-wisconsin-voting-election-primary-republicans-evers. Then yesterday Evers released an executive order to postpone the election that was immediately overturned by the Republican controlled state supreme court: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/politics/wisconsin-primary-coronavirus/index.htmlIt's been a ride, but it's clear which side of the political spectrum is trying to force the election to happen today.
Both parties were pressuring for the elections in Chicago (with polls in predominately Black and poor senior facilities), Florida before and both are pressuring these in Wisconsin.
The typical "Republicans are worse" applies here, but Democrats (not all Democrats) are just as culpable in my view.
EDIT: The same goes for the relief efforts being forced through unemployment and corporations instead of the direct checks even Trump supported (but Democrats said no according to Trump anyway).
Here's what it looks like trying to file for unemployment in Florida today:
The website mentioned doesn't work for most people that use it btw + Show Spoiler +
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On April 08 2020 01:53 WorthlessSC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2020 01:46 Nevuk wrote:On April 08 2020 01:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2020 01:31 Nevuk wrote:
My understanding is that there's a general election going on as well, and it's got some very critical positions up - like state supreme court (who helped enforce this farce). So Republicans are desperate to have it happen today, when the fewest people possible are likely to vote as this always helps them. I'm not totally sure of this calculus since so many people are unemployed, but they're operating like it's a normal situation.
Cancelling the democratic primary would probably hand over all the elections to the GOP, is probably the current thinking - it's exactly what the republicans would want.
Now, it may be morally correct to cancel them anyway, but short of a black tie riot like republicans pulled to delay Florida recounts in 2000, there's not really anything that could delay the general elections. So they can delay and are choosing not to for political expediency? That sounds like a gross moral abdication. It will depend on various laws and contracts somewhat. It's a private party having their elections held by public officials, so there's likely some sort of contract between the two about how/when to move the dates and penalties for violations on either end. I'm no expert on Wisconsin contract law, but it likely would not be EASY to move them. The main reason why you didn't see any push from the state DNC was likely due to the political expediency factors (though the governor pushing so hard for it likely prevented them from objecting, and it could be taken as tacit approval that they didn't push back), and it's definitely why you didn't see any push from the national DNC (punishment for not moving, etc.) The DNC could probably have said "we won't count any votes in the primary today as mattering" a few days ago, but they might not have thought that the US and WI SC would be so sociopathic as to let people die to get slightly better chance at a supreme court seat in Wisconsin, and the actual decision didn't come until yesterday. That's the more charitable interpretation of their actions though, and I'm not sure I buy it based on their past behavior. The Wisconsin Democratic party actually supported postponing the election: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/01/wisconsin-dems-support-postponing-spring-elections-160318. It took until last Friday before Evers tried to change the election to an all mail in election, by calling a special legislative session, which was closed almost immediately by the Republican controlled legislature: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/4/5/21208581/coronavirus-wisconsin-voting-election-primary-republicans-evers. Then yesterday Evers released an executive order to postpone the election that was immediately overturned by the Republican controlled state supreme court: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/politics/wisconsin-primary-coronavirus/index.htmlIt's been a ride, but it's clear which side of the political spectrum is trying to force the election to happen today.
GH's question was why the state primary had to happen today, given that it is totally outside the control of the GOP. The state DNC definitely wanted it moved back, but they wanted the entire election postponed. I'm not sure what the national DNC position was.
Logic going - concede WI ballot measures and SC seat to keep voters alive.
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On April 08 2020 02:11 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2020 01:53 WorthlessSC wrote:On April 08 2020 01:46 Nevuk wrote:On April 08 2020 01:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2020 01:31 Nevuk wrote:
My understanding is that there's a general election going on as well, and it's got some very critical positions up - like state supreme court (who helped enforce this farce). So Republicans are desperate to have it happen today, when the fewest people possible are likely to vote as this always helps them. I'm not totally sure of this calculus since so many people are unemployed, but they're operating like it's a normal situation.
Cancelling the democratic primary would probably hand over all the elections to the GOP, is probably the current thinking - it's exactly what the republicans would want.
Now, it may be morally correct to cancel them anyway, but short of a black tie riot like republicans pulled to delay Florida recounts in 2000, there's not really anything that could delay the general elections. So they can delay and are choosing not to for political expediency? That sounds like a gross moral abdication. It will depend on various laws and contracts somewhat. It's a private party having their elections held by public officials, so there's likely some sort of contract between the two about how/when to move the dates and penalties for violations on either end. I'm no expert on Wisconsin contract law, but it likely would not be EASY to move them. The main reason why you didn't see any push from the state DNC was likely due to the political expediency factors (though the governor pushing so hard for it likely prevented them from objecting, and it could be taken as tacit approval that they didn't push back), and it's definitely why you didn't see any push from the national DNC (punishment for not moving, etc.) The DNC could probably have said "we won't count any votes in the primary today as mattering" a few days ago, but they might not have thought that the US and WI SC would be so sociopathic as to let people die to get slightly better chance at a supreme court seat in Wisconsin, and the actual decision didn't come until yesterday. That's the more charitable interpretation of their actions though, and I'm not sure I buy it based on their past behavior. The Wisconsin Democratic party actually supported postponing the election: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/01/wisconsin-dems-support-postponing-spring-elections-160318. It took until last Friday before Evers tried to change the election to an all mail in election, by calling a special legislative session, which was closed almost immediately by the Republican controlled legislature: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/4/5/21208581/coronavirus-wisconsin-voting-election-primary-republicans-evers. Then yesterday Evers released an executive order to postpone the election that was immediately overturned by the Republican controlled state supreme court: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/politics/wisconsin-primary-coronavirus/index.htmlIt's been a ride, but it's clear which side of the political spectrum is trying to force the election to happen today. GH's question was why the state primary had to happen today, given that it is totally outside the control of the GOP. The state DNC definitely wanted it moved back, but they wanted the entire election postponed. I'm not sure what the national DNC position was. Logic going - concede WI ballot measures and SC seat to keep voters alive.
Fair enough, that would be way better than the disaster unfolding today. I think a lot of the blame lies on Evers for not acting sooner (maybe if he had done this a week ago the Dems may have cancelled the primary portion, though I'm not totally convinced on that) or looking at other ways to shut down the election (such as Ohio having the state health director shut it down due to health concerns).
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On April 08 2020 01:22 GreenHorizons wrote:
Can anyone explain why Democrats are saying they are helpless to stop their own primary in Wisconsin today? I'm aware it is not exclusively a Dem primary, but how is it that Republicans decide when and how Democrats have their primary?
The Republicans control the Supreme Court in our state. They denied the Governors orders for the election to be postponed. For the entire city of Milwaukee there's 5 polling places, normally there's about 180, because so many workers refused to work. And the state website to request absentee ballots is so overloaded it's crashed and unresponsive. Meaning if you don't risk your health and stand in a crowded line surrounded by thousands of people for perhaps hours you don't get to vote.
Luckily I live in a different county that's relatively low populated and I got in and out to vote in 2min and never had to stand within 6ft of anyone.
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On April 08 2020 03:17 Zooper31 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2020 01:22 GreenHorizons wrote:
Can anyone explain why Democrats are saying they are helpless to stop their own primary in Wisconsin today? I'm aware it is not exclusively a Dem primary, but how is it that Republicans decide when and how Democrats have their primary? The Republicans control the Supreme Court in our state. They denied the Governors orders for the election to be postponed. For the entire city of Milwaukee there's 5 polling places, normally there's about 180, because so many workers refused to work. And the state website to request absentee ballots is so overloaded it's crashed and unresponsive. Meaning if you don't risk your health and stand in a crowded line surrounded by thousands of people for perhaps hours you don't get to vote. Luckily I live in a different county that's relatively low populated and I got in and out to vote in 2min and never had to stand within 6ft of anyone.
I understand why Democrats failed to stop the vote altogether. The question was how they became powerless to stop their own primary. What I've gathered is either they aren't and continued it in a cynical political calculation putting voters' lives at risk or through some arcane and senseless mechanisms they conceded control over the Democratic primary to Republicans. Both demonstrate an unacceptable level of malice and/or incompetence for me.
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On April 08 2020 03:28 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2020 03:17 Zooper31 wrote:On April 08 2020 01:22 GreenHorizons wrote:
Can anyone explain why Democrats are saying they are helpless to stop their own primary in Wisconsin today? I'm aware it is not exclusively a Dem primary, but how is it that Republicans decide when and how Democrats have their primary? The Republicans control the Supreme Court in our state. They denied the Governors orders for the election to be postponed. For the entire city of Milwaukee there's 5 polling places, normally there's about 180, because so many workers refused to work. And the state website to request absentee ballots is so overloaded it's crashed and unresponsive. Meaning if you don't risk your health and stand in a crowded line surrounded by thousands of people for perhaps hours you don't get to vote. Luckily I live in a different county that's relatively low populated and I got in and out to vote in 2min and never had to stand within 6ft of anyone. I understand why Democrats failed to stop the vote altogether. The question was how they became powerless to stop their own primary. What I've gathered is either they aren't and continued it in a cynical political calculation putting voters' lives at risk or through some arcane and senseless mechanisms they conceded control over the Democratic primary to Republicans. Both demonstrate an unacceptable level of malice and/or incompetence for me. "Because the American system is stupid" is what I assume your fishing for.
Holding an election is a lot of work and without support from the government your going to have a hard time sorting things like polling stations, and I assume they are held in public facilities in the US aswell so again, government gets involved.
And the whole other elections going on anyway regardless of whether the primary is held or not because Republicans are once again a movie villian twirling their evil moustache.
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On April 08 2020 03:49 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2020 03:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2020 03:17 Zooper31 wrote:On April 08 2020 01:22 GreenHorizons wrote:
Can anyone explain why Democrats are saying they are helpless to stop their own primary in Wisconsin today? I'm aware it is not exclusively a Dem primary, but how is it that Republicans decide when and how Democrats have their primary? The Republicans control the Supreme Court in our state. They denied the Governors orders for the election to be postponed. For the entire city of Milwaukee there's 5 polling places, normally there's about 180, because so many workers refused to work. And the state website to request absentee ballots is so overloaded it's crashed and unresponsive. Meaning if you don't risk your health and stand in a crowded line surrounded by thousands of people for perhaps hours you don't get to vote. Luckily I live in a different county that's relatively low populated and I got in and out to vote in 2min and never had to stand within 6ft of anyone. I understand why Democrats failed to stop the vote altogether. The question was how they became powerless to stop their own primary. What I've gathered is either they aren't and continued it in a cynical political calculation putting voters' lives at risk or through some arcane and senseless mechanisms they conceded control over the Democratic primary to Republicans. Both demonstrate an unacceptable level of malice and/or incompetence for me. "Because the American system is stupid" is what I assume your fishing for. Holding an election is a lot of work and without support from the government your going to have a hard time sorting things like polling stations, and I assume they are held in public facilities in the US aswell so again, government gets involved. And the whole other elections going on anyway regardless of whether the primary is held or not because Republicans are once again a movie villian twirling their evil moustache.
I just don't see the value of Democrats if they are so inept and helpless against Republicans they can't even control their own primaries. I also think the crutch of pointing at how Republicans are worse isn't helping. Frankly, albeit morally atrocious, it is less damning in some ways imo if they did have the ability to delay the primary (which I think they did) and chose not to for political reasons.
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On April 08 2020 04:19 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2020 03:49 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2020 03:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2020 03:17 Zooper31 wrote:On April 08 2020 01:22 GreenHorizons wrote:
Can anyone explain why Democrats are saying they are helpless to stop their own primary in Wisconsin today? I'm aware it is not exclusively a Dem primary, but how is it that Republicans decide when and how Democrats have their primary? The Republicans control the Supreme Court in our state. They denied the Governors orders for the election to be postponed. For the entire city of Milwaukee there's 5 polling places, normally there's about 180, because so many workers refused to work. And the state website to request absentee ballots is so overloaded it's crashed and unresponsive. Meaning if you don't risk your health and stand in a crowded line surrounded by thousands of people for perhaps hours you don't get to vote. Luckily I live in a different county that's relatively low populated and I got in and out to vote in 2min and never had to stand within 6ft of anyone. I understand why Democrats failed to stop the vote altogether. The question was how they became powerless to stop their own primary. What I've gathered is either they aren't and continued it in a cynical political calculation putting voters' lives at risk or through some arcane and senseless mechanisms they conceded control over the Democratic primary to Republicans. Both demonstrate an unacceptable level of malice and/or incompetence for me. "Because the American system is stupid" is what I assume your fishing for. Holding an election is a lot of work and without support from the government your going to have a hard time sorting things like polling stations, and I assume they are held in public facilities in the US aswell so again, government gets involved. And the whole other elections going on anyway regardless of whether the primary is held or not because Republicans are once again a movie villian twirling their evil moustache. I just don't see the value of Democrats if they are so inept and helpless against Republicans they can't even control their own primaries. I also think the crutch of pointing at how Republicans are worse isn't helping. Frankly, albeit morally atrocious, it is less damning in some ways imo if they did have the ability to delay the primary (which I think they did) and chose not to for political reasons.
I don’t know the legal specifics here (sounds like you don’t either), but if they gave the state government control over their primary date (and therefore power over whether to cancel/postpone), why is that so bad? In normal times, wouldn’t that be preferable to the Wisconsin Democratic Party and/or DNC being able to unilaterally decide “We’re cancelling/postponing our primary” and no one can tell them no?
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On April 08 2020 04:25 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2020 04:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2020 03:49 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2020 03:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2020 03:17 Zooper31 wrote:On April 08 2020 01:22 GreenHorizons wrote:
Can anyone explain why Democrats are saying they are helpless to stop their own primary in Wisconsin today? I'm aware it is not exclusively a Dem primary, but how is it that Republicans decide when and how Democrats have their primary? The Republicans control the Supreme Court in our state. They denied the Governors orders for the election to be postponed. For the entire city of Milwaukee there's 5 polling places, normally there's about 180, because so many workers refused to work. And the state website to request absentee ballots is so overloaded it's crashed and unresponsive. Meaning if you don't risk your health and stand in a crowded line surrounded by thousands of people for perhaps hours you don't get to vote. Luckily I live in a different county that's relatively low populated and I got in and out to vote in 2min and never had to stand within 6ft of anyone. I understand why Democrats failed to stop the vote altogether. The question was how they became powerless to stop their own primary. What I've gathered is either they aren't and continued it in a cynical political calculation putting voters' lives at risk or through some arcane and senseless mechanisms they conceded control over the Democratic primary to Republicans. Both demonstrate an unacceptable level of malice and/or incompetence for me. "Because the American system is stupid" is what I assume your fishing for. Holding an election is a lot of work and without support from the government your going to have a hard time sorting things like polling stations, and I assume they are held in public facilities in the US aswell so again, government gets involved. And the whole other elections going on anyway regardless of whether the primary is held or not because Republicans are once again a movie villian twirling their evil moustache. I just don't see the value of Democrats if they are so inept and helpless against Republicans they can't even control their own primaries. I also think the crutch of pointing at how Republicans are worse isn't helping. Frankly, albeit morally atrocious, it is less damning in some ways imo if they did have the ability to delay the primary (which I think they did) and chose not to for political reasons. I don’t know the legal specifics here (sounds like you don’t either), but if they gave the state government control over their primary date (and therefore power over whether to cancel/postpone), why is that so bad? In normal times, wouldn’t that be preferable to the Wisconsin Democratic Party and/or DNC being able to unilaterally decide “We’re cancelling/postponing our primary” and no one can tell them no? The state party could cancel the Primary if they want to but it would change absolutely nothing since the other elections would still go on and who knows if the state government would even give them permission to hold it on a different date after this is over.
Which is why they wanted the entire election postponed, as any one sane would.
Once that was denied there is little point in holding the primary or not, the disaster is already going to happen. Whether there are 2 or 3 ballots to fill in is not going to change a damn thing.
Tho I do think they should have cancelled it to send a clear message.
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On April 08 2020 02:01 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2020 01:53 WorthlessSC wrote:On April 08 2020 01:46 Nevuk wrote:On April 08 2020 01:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2020 01:31 Nevuk wrote:
My understanding is that there's a general election going on as well, and it's got some very critical positions up - like state supreme court (who helped enforce this farce). So Republicans are desperate to have it happen today, when the fewest people possible are likely to vote as this always helps them. I'm not totally sure of this calculus since so many people are unemployed, but they're operating like it's a normal situation.
Cancelling the democratic primary would probably hand over all the elections to the GOP, is probably the current thinking - it's exactly what the republicans would want.
Now, it may be morally correct to cancel them anyway, but short of a black tie riot like republicans pulled to delay Florida recounts in 2000, there's not really anything that could delay the general elections. So they can delay and are choosing not to for political expediency? That sounds like a gross moral abdication. It will depend on various laws and contracts somewhat. It's a private party having their elections held by public officials, so there's likely some sort of contract between the two about how/when to move the dates and penalties for violations on either end. I'm no expert on Wisconsin contract law, but it likely would not be EASY to move them. The main reason why you didn't see any push from the state DNC was likely due to the political expediency factors (though the governor pushing so hard for it likely prevented them from objecting, and it could be taken as tacit approval that they didn't push back), and it's definitely why you didn't see any push from the national DNC (punishment for not moving, etc.) The DNC could probably have said "we won't count any votes in the primary today as mattering" a few days ago, but they might not have thought that the US and WI SC would be so sociopathic as to let people die to get slightly better chance at a supreme court seat in Wisconsin, and the actual decision didn't come until yesterday. That's the more charitable interpretation of their actions though, and I'm not sure I buy it based on their past behavior. The Wisconsin Democratic party actually supported postponing the election: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/01/wisconsin-dems-support-postponing-spring-elections-160318. It took until last Friday before Evers tried to change the election to an all mail in election, by calling a special legislative session, which was closed almost immediately by the Republican controlled legislature: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/4/5/21208581/coronavirus-wisconsin-voting-election-primary-republicans-evers. Then yesterday Evers released an executive order to postpone the election that was immediately overturned by the Republican controlled state supreme court: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/politics/wisconsin-primary-coronavirus/index.htmlIt's been a ride, but it's clear which side of the political spectrum is trying to force the election to happen today. Both parties were pressuring for the elections in Chicago (with polls in predominately Black and poor senior facilities), Florida before and both are pressuring these in Wisconsin. The typical "Republicans are worse" applies here, but Democrats (not all Democrats) are just as culpable in my view. EDIT: The same goes for the relief efforts being forced through unemployment and corporations instead of the direct checks even Trump supported (but Democrats said no according to Trump anyway). Here's what it looks like trying to file for unemployment in Florida today: https://twitter.com/HatzelVelaWPLG/status/1247541488000454657The website mentioned doesn't work for most people that use it btw + Show Spoiler +
This is my home city in FL, Hialeah, and I moved the fuck out because it's fucking corrupt and broken as fuck.
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On April 08 2020 04:25 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2020 04:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2020 03:49 Gorsameth wrote:On April 08 2020 03:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 08 2020 03:17 Zooper31 wrote:On April 08 2020 01:22 GreenHorizons wrote:
Can anyone explain why Democrats are saying they are helpless to stop their own primary in Wisconsin today? I'm aware it is not exclusively a Dem primary, but how is it that Republicans decide when and how Democrats have their primary? The Republicans control the Supreme Court in our state. They denied the Governors orders for the election to be postponed. For the entire city of Milwaukee there's 5 polling places, normally there's about 180, because so many workers refused to work. And the state website to request absentee ballots is so overloaded it's crashed and unresponsive. Meaning if you don't risk your health and stand in a crowded line surrounded by thousands of people for perhaps hours you don't get to vote. Luckily I live in a different county that's relatively low populated and I got in and out to vote in 2min and never had to stand within 6ft of anyone. I understand why Democrats failed to stop the vote altogether. The question was how they became powerless to stop their own primary. What I've gathered is either they aren't and continued it in a cynical political calculation putting voters' lives at risk or through some arcane and senseless mechanisms they conceded control over the Democratic primary to Republicans. Both demonstrate an unacceptable level of malice and/or incompetence for me. "Because the American system is stupid" is what I assume your fishing for. Holding an election is a lot of work and without support from the government your going to have a hard time sorting things like polling stations, and I assume they are held in public facilities in the US aswell so again, government gets involved. And the whole other elections going on anyway regardless of whether the primary is held or not because Republicans are once again a movie villian twirling their evil moustache. I just don't see the value of Democrats if they are so inept and helpless against Republicans they can't even control their own primaries. I also think the crutch of pointing at how Republicans are worse isn't helping. Frankly, albeit morally atrocious, it is less damning in some ways imo if they did have the ability to delay the primary (which I think they did) and chose not to for political reasons. I don’t know the legal specifics here (sounds like you don’t either), but if they gave the state government control over their primary date (and therefore power over whether to cancel/postpone), why is that so bad? In normal times, wouldn’t that be preferable to the Wisconsin Democratic Party and/or DNC being able to unilaterally decide “We’re cancelling/postponing our primary” and no one can tell them no?
Democratic party has total control over their primary. The state party controls the process, DNC heavily influences the date (by way of penalizing Wisconsin if they did delay as one example)
Beyond that, giving their ability to hold their own primary to a state body that is (or could be) controlled by Republicans that regularly talk about disenfranchising voters being part of Republican electoral strategy is as I said imo, demonstrative of unacceptable incompetence and/or ill will.
More importantly it is demonstrative of their inability to act as an adequate foil to Republicans in the face of a crisis and it is going to cost people their lives.
This same thing happened in Chicago earlier with no Republicans to blame btw.
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(acting)Secretary of the navy has resigned after calling the aircraft carrier captain who blew the whistle on his ship having coronavirus either "too stupid or too naive for duty" for thinking that his email informing higher ups wouldn't be leaked in a speech to the crew of the ship, telling them they "didn't have to love him[the captain]". His speech was then promptly leaked to the media. It's honestly pretty shocking to have any military person resign in the current environment.
Per CNN reporter:
(Fuller quote :
“If he didn’t think that this information wasn’t going to get out into the public, in this day and information age that we live in, then he was either A, too naive or too stupid to be a commanding officer of a ship like this. The alternative is that he did this on purpose.”)
I think this was perhaps the biggest self-own I've seen in recent times.
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United States24733 Posts
When he first assumed his duties of Secretary of the Navy, he sent out an all-hands which basically said, "well, I have no idea how long this is going to last, but let's have a go at it." Most likely, he was pressured into his foolishness by someone above (I'll leave who as an exercise to the reader).
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being loyal to trump backfires again
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On April 08 2020 05:42 CorsairHero wrote:
being loyal to trump backfires again
So for his (potential) second term he will have lost pretty much all of his most capable high level employees and hired a third as many people as replacements? Will probably make this first term look pretty competent in comparison since half the people that should be leading the actual job will be empty spots. Making it hard to hire good people below them as those leave for any reason at all.
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EPT
