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Canada8989 Posts
On March 19 2020 08:05 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2020 07:56 Nakajin wrote:On March 19 2020 06:20 Vivax wrote:
Trump basically just put himself over individual rights with the passing of that act. He can force businesses to work under threat of confiscation. He's also the first to enact measures that put the US on par with China.
Makes you wonder about one question for this crisis. Cui bono?
Also fuck this warlike rhetoric everywhere in the news, even Merkel is digging up WW2 comparisons. It's like they want to turn the netflix n' chill gen into a bunch of special forces. Well, they are asking for probably a months long effort from their population that will necessarely have a very big impact of the living quality of many and if it goes as plan cost the life of many tens of thousand persons in a short spawn. It's not insane to ask everyone for their solidarity, self restrain and help. I'm really not a fan of the wartime rethoric, but depending how thing goes a big part of the "Netflix and chill" generation, may be looking mass employement, parent and grand-parent dying in hospital, missing their degree because the school are close or trying to manage their kids at homd while still having to go to work in essential services. Hm. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/07/2019-had-the-most-ceo-departures-on-record-with-more-than-1600.html#:~:text=2019 was the year of,Challenger, Gray, & Christmas. I have this nagging feeling somehow that most of these guys are somewhere on a pacific island or offshore paradise or equivalent not giving a damn about what the average person has to endure "for the greater good". In other terms, while a catalyst for the economic downturn might have been this virus, it isn't the main cause. The current policies are very supportive of captains being the first to abandon ship and go AWOL.
Edit: forget that, better to say nothing than to speak without thinking
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On March 19 2020 08:05 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2020 07:56 Nakajin wrote:On March 19 2020 06:20 Vivax wrote:
Trump basically just put himself over individual rights with the passing of that act. He can force businesses to work under threat of confiscation. He's also the first to enact measures that put the US on par with China.
Makes you wonder about one question for this crisis. Cui bono?
Also fuck this warlike rhetoric everywhere in the news, even Merkel is digging up WW2 comparisons. It's like they want to turn the netflix n' chill gen into a bunch of special forces. Well, they are asking for probably a months long effort from their population that will necessarely have a very big impact of the living quality of many and if it goes as plan cost the life of many tens of thousand persons in a short spawn. It's not insane to ask everyone for their solidarity, self restrain and help. I'm really not a fan of the wartime rethoric, but depending how thing goes a big part of the "Netflix and chill" generation, may be looking mass employement, parent and grand-parent dying in hospital, missing their degree because the school are close or trying to manage their kids at homd while still having to go to work in essential services. Hm. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/07/2019-had-the-most-ceo-departures-on-record-with-more-than-1600.html#:~:text=2019 was the year of,Challenger, Gray, & Christmas. I have this nagging feeling somehow that most of these guys are somewhere on a pacific island or offshore paradise or equivalent not giving a damn about what the average person has to endure "for the greater good". In other terms, while a catalyst for the economic downturn might have been this virus, it isn't the main cause. The current policies are very supportive of captains being the first to abandon ship and go AWOL.
What do CEOs being fired or quit have to do with anything?
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On March 19 2020 10:47 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2020 08:05 Vivax wrote:On March 19 2020 07:56 Nakajin wrote:On March 19 2020 06:20 Vivax wrote:
Trump basically just put himself over individual rights with the passing of that act. He can force businesses to work under threat of confiscation. He's also the first to enact measures that put the US on par with China.
Makes you wonder about one question for this crisis. Cui bono?
Also fuck this warlike rhetoric everywhere in the news, even Merkel is digging up WW2 comparisons. It's like they want to turn the netflix n' chill gen into a bunch of special forces. Well, they are asking for probably a months long effort from their population that will necessarely have a very big impact of the living quality of many and if it goes as plan cost the life of many tens of thousand persons in a short spawn. It's not insane to ask everyone for their solidarity, self restrain and help. I'm really not a fan of the wartime rethoric, but depending how thing goes a big part of the "Netflix and chill" generation, may be looking mass employement, parent and grand-parent dying in hospital, missing their degree because the school are close or trying to manage their kids at homd while still having to go to work in essential services. Hm. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/07/2019-had-the-most-ceo-departures-on-record-with-more-than-1600.html#:~:text=2019 was the year of,Challenger, Gray, & Christmas. I have this nagging feeling somehow that most of these guys are somewhere on a pacific island or offshore paradise or equivalent not giving a damn about what the average person has to endure "for the greater good". In other terms, while a catalyst for the economic downturn might have been this virus, it isn't the main cause. The current policies are very supportive of captains being the first to abandon ship and go AWOL. What do CEOs being fired or quit have to do with anything?
I'm just sour that once again, while personal freedoms are slowly hollowed out with an appeal to social responsibility under the guise of a crisis, some of the responsibles cashed out, packed their bags and live a merry life and there isn't a word about it from politics.
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That Schumer is seriously siding with Lindsey Graham against Trump sending people checks is something.
Democrats adopting the conservative rhetoric around wanting to limit the emergency aid by pushing it through unemployment, instead of sending out checks, is Democrats just begging to lose in November.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
I'm not particularly fond of the "sending people checks" idea. It's definitely far, far better than giving industries like airlines and hotels, known for their stock buybacks and largess, a gigantic handout, but I suspect that if everyone gets $1000 right now, it's just going to go into next month's rent. If the goal is to keep people afloat that way, that's great. But if the idea is that that's going to stimulate the economy, that's not going to bring back a whole lot of consumerism or get people to take a family vacation to Disneyland any time soon.
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On March 19 2020 13:28 LegalLord wrote:
I'm not particularly fond of the "sending people checks" idea. It's definitely far, far better than giving industries like airlines and hotels, known for their stock buybacks and largess, a gigantic handout, but I suspect that if everyone gets $1000 right now, it's just going to go into next month's rent. If the goal is to keep people afloat that way, that's great. But if the idea is that that's going to stimulate the economy, that's not going to bring back a whole lot of consumerism or get people to take a family vacation to Disneyland any time soon.
$1000 (or the "up to $500" Harris proposed) is definitely too low, even Sanders $2,000 is too low imo (but supplemented with the unemployment up to $75k per year clears the bare minimum imo).
I don't know what various people think the $1000 would be for but as far as I see it, it is just a stop gap to prevent total collapse, not meant to spur the economy in any serious way.
The resistance among politicians goes back to what I said before about people being terrified at the idea of weathering this crisis by undermining the connection between survival and work, and that there is no viable alternative.
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On March 19 2020 13:28 LegalLord wrote:
I'm not particularly fond of the "sending people checks" idea. It's definitely far, far better than giving industries like airlines and hotels, known for their stock buybacks and largess, a gigantic handout, but I suspect that if everyone gets $1000 right now, it's just going to go into next month's rent. If the goal is to keep people afloat that way, that's great. But if the idea is that that's going to stimulate the economy, that's not going to bring back a whole lot of consumerism or get people to take a family vacation to Disneyland any time soon.
That's entirely the point. Right now the goal is keeping as many people as possible at home.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On March 19 2020 13:32 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2020 13:28 LegalLord wrote:
I'm not particularly fond of the "sending people checks" idea. It's definitely far, far better than giving industries like airlines and hotels, known for their stock buybacks and largess, a gigantic handout, but I suspect that if everyone gets $1000 right now, it's just going to go into next month's rent. If the goal is to keep people afloat that way, that's great. But if the idea is that that's going to stimulate the economy, that's not going to bring back a whole lot of consumerism or get people to take a family vacation to Disneyland any time soon. $1000 (or the "up to $500" Harris proposed) is definitely too low, even Sanders $2,000 is too low imo (but supplemented with the unemployment up to $75k per year clears the bare minimum imo). I don't know what various people think the $1000 would be for but as far as I see it, it is just a stop gap to prevent total collapse, not meant to spur the economy in any serious way. The resistance among politicians goes back to what I said before about people being terrified at the idea of weathering this crisis by undermining the connection between survival and work, and that there is no viable alternative.
As long as it is meant to be a stopgap and nothing else - I suppose it's not the worst idea. It's better than letting hundreds of thousands of preventable evictions / foreclosures just happen, at any rate.
The so-called party lines on this stimulus are completely out of wack with the norm. Some Democrats say $1000 is a bad idea, some say it's not enough, Republicans are all over the map on this, Republicans who are highly corporatist are uncharacteristically opposed to an airliner bailout in a manner strangely consistent with the leftists, and so on. It seems like the $1000-2000 check is highly likely at this point, but beyond that I have no idea what's in the pipe because everyone has a completely different idea of how this needs to play out.
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I think the Republicans are willing to go overboard on this so they can tout the results. If they fuck this up entirely then they lose the election guaranteed.
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I guess it's cynical to think, but yeah why wouldn't they jump at the chance to give people money in an important election year. Many people wonder what politicians ever do for them... Imagine being able to point to a $1000 check and say "see?" Agreed it's not going to do much in the long run but people will be grateful for it. I'm worried about the giant stimulus packages being mismanaged and saddling us with even more debts on top of a crippled economy. A trillion is nothing to sneeze at.
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On March 19 2020 13:28 LegalLord wrote:
I'm not particularly fond of the "sending people checks" idea. It's definitely far, far better than giving industries like airlines and hotels, known for their stock buybacks and largess, a gigantic handout, but I suspect that if everyone gets $1000 right now, it's just going to go into next month's rent. If the goal is to keep people afloat that way, that's great. But if the idea is that that's going to stimulate the economy, that's not going to bring back a whole lot of consumerism or get people to take a family vacation to Disneyland any time soon. There is no economy to stimulate. This isn't a problem of "Joe doesn't have money to spend buying stuff" but "Joe can't leave the house for a month and even if he did all the shops are closed because they can't leave the house either".
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On March 19 2020 19:32 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2020 13:28 LegalLord wrote:
I'm not particularly fond of the "sending people checks" idea. It's definitely far, far better than giving industries like airlines and hotels, known for their stock buybacks and largess, a gigantic handout, but I suspect that if everyone gets $1000 right now, it's just going to go into next month's rent. If the goal is to keep people afloat that way, that's great. But if the idea is that that's going to stimulate the economy, that's not going to bring back a whole lot of consumerism or get people to take a family vacation to Disneyland any time soon. There is no economy to stimulate. This isn't a problem of "Joe doesn't have money to spend buying stuff" but "Joe can't leave the house for a month and even if he did all the shops are closed because they can't leave the house either".
Amazon is gonna become closer to omnipotent or will succumb to superspreaders in their warehouses.
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On March 19 2020 19:32 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2020 13:28 LegalLord wrote:
I'm not particularly fond of the "sending people checks" idea. It's definitely far, far better than giving industries like airlines and hotels, known for their stock buybacks and largess, a gigantic handout, but I suspect that if everyone gets $1000 right now, it's just going to go into next month's rent. If the goal is to keep people afloat that way, that's great. But if the idea is that that's going to stimulate the economy, that's not going to bring back a whole lot of consumerism or get people to take a family vacation to Disneyland any time soon. There is no economy to stimulate. This isn't a problem of "Joe doesn't have money to spend buying stuff" but "Joe can't leave the house for a month and even if he did all the shops are closed because they can't leave the house either".
Yes until its over the economy is literally going to be people buying food, paying bills/debt, and household repairs (plumbers, electrician, etc)
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First major scandal of the 'rona age, a US Senator gave a group of donors the straight talk on COVID-19 in late February, said nothing about it at all to the public other than reassurance, and then proceeded to dump large amounts of stock in contemplation of the disaster he knew was coming.
Soon after he offered public assurances that the government was ready to battle the coronavirus, the powerful chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Richard Burr, sold off a significant percentage of his stocks, unloading between $582,029 and $1.56 million of his holdings on Feb. 13 in 29 separate transactions.
As the head of the intelligence committee, Burr, a North Carolina Republican, has access to the government’s most highly classified information about threats to America’s security. His committee was receiving daily coronavirus briefings around this time, according to a Reuters story.
A week after Burr’s sales, the stock market began a sharp decline and has lost about 30% since.
On Thursday, Burr came under fire after NPR obtained a secret recording from Feb. 27, in which the lawmaker gave a VIP group at an exclusive social club a much more dire preview of the economic impact of the coronavirus than what he had told the public.
Senator Dumped Up to $1.6 Million of Stock After Reassuring Public About Coronavirus Preparedness
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On March 20 2020 07:49 farvacola wrote:First major scandal of the 'rona age, a US Senator gave a group of donors the straight talk on COVID-19 in late February, said nothing about it at all to the public other than reassurance, and then proceeded to dump large amounts of stock in contemplation of the disaster he knew was coming. Show nested quote +Soon after he offered public assurances that the government was ready to battle the coronavirus, the powerful chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Richard Burr, sold off a significant percentage of his stocks, unloading between $582,029 and $1.56 million of his holdings on Feb. 13 in 29 separate transactions.
As the head of the intelligence committee, Burr, a North Carolina Republican, has access to the government’s most highly classified information about threats to America’s security. His committee was receiving daily coronavirus briefings around this time, according to a Reuters story.
A week after Burr’s sales, the stock market began a sharp decline and has lost about 30% since.
On Thursday, Burr came under fire after NPR obtained a secret recording from Feb. 27, in which the lawmaker gave a VIP group at an exclusive social club a much more dire preview of the economic impact of the coronavirus than what he had told the public. Senator Dumped Up to $1.6 Million of Stock After Reassuring Public About Coronavirus Preparedness
His response so far does him no favors. (He only responded to the NPR piece mentioned, where they have the full audio of his remarks to investors donors).
Some bits of the NPR piece :
Thirteen days before the State Department began to warn against travel to Europe, and 15 days before the Trump administration banned European travelers, Burr warned those in the room to reconsider.
"Every company should be cognizant of the fact that you may have to alter your travel. You may have to look at your employees and judge whether the trip they're making to Europe is essential or whether it can be done on video conference. Why risk it?" Burr said.
Sixteen days before North Carolina closed its schools over the threat of the coronavirus, Burr warned it could happen.
"There will be, I'm sure, times that communities, probably some in North Carolina, have a transmission rate where they say, 'Let's close schools for two weeks. Everybody stay home,' " he said.
And Burr invoked the possibility that the military might be mobilized to combat the coronavirus. Only now, three weeks later, is the public learning of that prospect.
"We're going to send a military hospital there; it's going to be in tents and going to be set up on the ground somewhere," Burr said at the luncheon. "It's going to be a decision the president and DOD make. And we're going to have medical professionals supplemented by local staff to treat the people that need treatment."
Burr has a unique perspective on the government's response to a pandemic, and not just because of his role as Intelligence Committee chairman. He helped to write the Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness Act (PAHPA), which forms the framework for the federal response.
But in his public comments about the threat of COVID-19, Burr never offered the kind of precise warning that he delivered to the small group of his constituents.
https://www.npr.org/2020/03/19/818192535/burr-recording-sparks-questions-about-private-comments-on-covid-19
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He did the same thing last financial crisis and people still vote for him (source). Governor race barely squeaked through recently so there's hope of getting rid of him, but he isn't up for reelection for a few years. He also didn't do anything illegal from what I understand, not that Barr would prosecute him if he did.
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On March 20 2020 10:46 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:He did the same thing last financial crisis and people still vote for him (source). Governor race barely squeaked through recently so there's hope of getting rid of him, but he isn't up for reelection for a few years. He also didn't do anything illegal from what I understand, not that Barr would prosecute him if he did.
I'm not totally sure. He's getting blasted on Tucker Carlson's show at the moment.
Also, we have a second senator doing these sorts of shenanigans. Via Daily Beast reporting, Kelly Loeffler.
The Senate’s newest member sold off seven figures worth of stock holdings in the days and weeks after a private, all-senators meeting on the novel coronavirus that subsequently hammered U.S. equities.
Sen. Kelly Loeffler (R-GA) reported the first sale of stock jointly owned by her and her husband on Jan. 24, the very day that her committee, the Senate Health Committee, hosted a private, all-senators briefing from administration officials, including the CDC director and Anthony Fauci, the head of the National Institutes of Health of the United States, on the coronavirus.
“Appreciate today’s briefing from the President’s top health officials on the novel coronavirus outbreak,” she tweeted about the briefing at the time.
That first transaction was a sale of stock in the company Resideo Technologies worth between $50,001 and $100,000. The company’s stock price has fallen by more than half since then, and the Dow Jones Industrial Average overall has shed approximately 10,000 points, dropping about a third of its value.
It was the first of 29 stock transactions that Loeffler and her husband made through mid-February, all but two of which were sales. One of Loeffler’s two purchases was stock worth between $100,000 and $250,000 in Citrix, a technology company that offers teleworking software and which has seen a small bump in its stock price since Loeffler bought in as a result of coronavirus-induced market turmoil.
[snip]
www.thedailybeast.com
https://www.thedailybeast.com/sen-kelly-loeffler-dumped-millions-in-stock-after-coronavirus-briefing
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Norway28665 Posts
Can this be covered by some type of anti insider-trading law or whatever?
It's absolutely abhorrent morally and if he gets elected, a gross indictment of the voters, but damn, not being reelected isn't sufficient here.
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Another US Senator appears to have sold a significant amount of stock before the public recognized COVID-19 for the threat that it was.
The Senate’s newest member sold off seven figures worth of stock holdings in the days and weeks after a private, all-senators meeting on the novel coronavirus that subsequently hammered U.S. equities.
Sen. Kelly Loeffler (R-GA) reported the first sale of stock jointly owned by her and her husband on Jan. 24, the very day that her committee, the Senate Health Committee, hosted a private, all-senators briefing from administration officials, including the CDC director and Anthony Fauci, the head of the National Institutes of Health of the United States, on the coronavirus.
“Appreciate today’s briefing from the President’s top health officials on the novel coronavirus outbreak,” she tweeted about the briefing at the time.
That first transaction was a sale of stock in the company Resideo Technologies worth between $50,001 and $100,000. The company’s stock price has fallen by more than half since then, and the Dow Jones Industrial Average overall has shed approximately 10,000 points, dropping about a third of its value.
It was the first of 29 stock transactions that Loeffler and her husband made through mid-February, all but two of which were sales. One of Loeffler’s two purchases was stock worth between $100,000 and $250,000 in Citrix, a technology company that offers teleworking software and which has seen a small bump in its stock price since Loeffler bought in as a result of coronavirus-induced market turmoil.
Sen. Kelly Loeffler Dumped Millions in Stock After Coronavirus Briefing
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United States24680 Posts
Wow, Kelly Loeffler did it twice in five minutes.
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EPT
