EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2194
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32737 Posts
But if it does run amok and the response is ineffective, I can see people on the fence between Trump and Biden quickly losing confidence in Trump and going for Biden. Simultaneously, there's a real economic storm brewing, and if it lasts well until November, that would topple down the economic pitch he can sell to independents and moderate Republicans who are unsure on Trump or Biden, even if it isn't exactly his fault. | ||
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22724 Posts
On March 19 2020 02:27 farvacola wrote: The extent of the federal government’s culpability in all this will be hotly contested for years to come, but I’m fairly certain it will be shown that significant, avoidable missteps in the early days cost lives. There's going to be smoke for everyone. No question Trump's denial, and delayed reactions will cost thousands of lives but he won't be alone. Tom Perez urging the primary states to vote despite the pandemic and Chicago's corona congo line at the polls will land squarely on the Democratic party for example. | ||
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
Really, Trump should be blamed for the underlying weakness of the economy and removing some of the tools for a recession, but not for how bad it's going to get under Coronavirus. He will be, though. Both because presidents are ALWAYS blamed for it, and because he tried to take credit for the strength of the economy CONSTANTLY (which is why most presidents don't mention a strong economy outside of the SOTU). The jump in unemployment applications is approaching Depression levels in Ohio, and I expect that trend to widen as states force through necessary quarantine measures. There's going to be so many deaths from this that I don't think it will resonate with people, to be honest. Or at least not as strongly as the economy suffering. What is the saying, 1 death is a tragedy, 10,000 is just a statistic? On March 19 2020 02:37 farvacola wrote: No doubt, and as much as it pains me to say, Mike fucking DeWine is gonna carry the standard for how to take decisive action. Folks who thought the political landscape was topsy turvy when Trump took office ain’t seen nothing yet. I'm a bit torn on it. I feel like he's doing what I'd consider bare minimum levels - and he only looks good because everyone else is doing so poorly. For instance, small businesses are basically all going under and his solution was to offer a low interest loan. The issue is that there was, last I checked, a 6 week waiting period for approval. Additionally, the loan would need to be no interest or just a mortgage freeze to actually motivate most small businesses to not just close. He's offering the perfect republican solutions like that - low interest loans rather than mortgage freezes or cash handouts. Now, overall he's doing amazing compared to say, Cuomo or De Blasio. Though I question his need to go on Hugh Hewitt's show. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22724 Posts
Poll: I think things will be "back to normal" in the US in: never going "back to normal" (11) 6-12 months (10) more than a year (9) 3-4 months (2) 6-8 weeks (0) 32 total votes You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ 6-8 weeks | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On that poll, GH, I doubt things go back to how they were, so I put that. Return to the new normal in probably 4-6 months, I think. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On the polls, it depend what you mean by "back to normal". Like did thing get back to normal after 9/11? I don't think society will crumble if that's the question. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22724 Posts
So no dramatic new legislation addressing the drastic gap in worker rights, medical care, etc... that extends beyond the immediate crisis would be back to normal. Things like making permanent a significant portion of the emergency relief stuff would be enough to qualify as "never going back" imo. So would societal collapse, or fascism. On the announcements from the Feds they are just going to have to extend it indefinitely or use the police/army to kick people out. If for some reason people can't pay their rent they 100% should make the "owner" remove them by force imo. On March 19 2020 03:15 LegalLord wrote: I think things will stop breaking in new ways in the next 6-12 months, and the next several years will be rebuilding to a "new normal." I find the prospect of return to a 2010-2019 status quo to be very unlikely at this point - the world is changing out from under us. I'd put this under never going back or more than a year depending on how different one feels it will be from 2010-2019. | ||
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Vivax
21801 Posts
Makes you wonder about one question for this crisis. Cui bono? Also fuck this warlike rhetoric everywhere in the news, even Merkel is digging up WW2 comparisons. It's like they want to turn the netflix n' chill gen into a bunch of special forces. | ||
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
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Vivax
21801 Posts
On March 19 2020 07:10 farvacola wrote: The US has had periods of authoritarian governance that compare readily with China (and surprise surprise, they coincide with national security crises), so its not even remotely accurate to claim that Trump is the "first" to do anything other than deal with this unique crisis. And the qui bono frame of reference only works when there is some measure of background stability that anchors the ostensibly self-advantageous choices allegedly being made. It is a big stretch to suppose that that stability has existed anywhere at anytime with reference to the pandemic. What I meant to say is that he's the first in the western world to adopt these measures in the current crisis. Sure they've been in place before, but for wars, not pandemics. I guess I'd feel better about it if it were Obama in his place, not a guy who seems unstable most of the time and will chase every opportunity to cement his power. | ||
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
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JohnDelaney
Ireland73 Posts
On March 19 2020 07:31 Vivax wrote: What I meant to say is that he's the first in the western world to adopt these measures in the current crisis. Not really, Spain nationalised all their private hospitals. Source: Business Insider | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On March 19 2020 06:20 Vivax wrote: Trump basically just put himself over individual rights with the passing of that act. He can force businesses to work under threat of confiscation. He's also the first to enact measures that put the US on par with China. Makes you wonder about one question for this crisis. Cui bono? Also fuck this warlike rhetoric everywhere in the news, even Merkel is digging up WW2 comparisons. It's like they want to turn the netflix n' chill gen into a bunch of special forces. Well, they are asking for probably a months long effort from their population that will necessarely have a very big impact of the living quality of many and if it goes as plan cost the life of many tens of thousand persons in a short spawn. It's not insane to ask everyone for their solidarity, self restrain and help. I'm really not a fan of the wartime rethoric, but depending how thing goes a big part of the "Netflix and chill" generation, may be looking mass employement, parent and grand-parent dying in hospital, missing their degree because the school are close or trying to manage their kids at home while still having to go to work in essential services. Also, yes Trump is a moron, and I'm deeply scarred he screw everything up for the after crisis. Not saying we shouldn't be vigilant about the way government are handling things and the risk on the long or short time well being of individual in the response to the crisis, but we should also be aware of certain opportunity that could emerge, for example the re-nationalization and reinforcement of public health services across the globe. | ||
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Vivax
21801 Posts
On March 19 2020 07:56 Nakajin wrote: Well, they are asking for probably a months long effort from their population that will necessarely have a very big impact of the living quality of many and if it goes as plan cost the life of many tens of thousand persons in a short spawn. It's not insane to ask everyone for their solidarity, self restrain and help. I'm really not a fan of the wartime rethoric, but depending how thing goes a big part of the "Netflix and chill" generation, may be looking mass employement, parent and grand-parent dying in hospital, missing their degree because the school are close or trying to manage their kids at homd while still having to go to work in essential services. Hm. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/07/2019-had-the-most-ceo-departures-on-record-with-more-than-1600.html#:~:text=2019 was the year of,Challenger, Gray, & Christmas. I have this nagging feeling somehow that most of these guys are somewhere on a pacific island or offshore paradise or equivalent not giving a damn about what the average person has to endure "for the greater good". In other terms, while a catalyst for the economic downturn might have been this virus, it isn't the main cause. The current policies are very supportive of captains being the first to abandon ship and go AWOL. | ||
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