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On March 16 2020 02:07 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2020 20:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
I get the feeling the sinophobia is going to increase exponentially as we become increasingly dependent on China bailing the western world out of our series of cascading failures. Wtf does that have to do with sinophobia, we'll probably never know. Your insinuation of racism are not only misplaced, they are highly insulting. Pointing out that chinese political culture is highly toxic and has contributed to the crisis is not racism. I don't like dictatorships, and it's in dictatorships that the messenger gets shot for "spreading rumors" when they raise the alarm, because they are systems centered on the survival of their regime. I would appreciate if you kept your accusations of biggotry for those who deserve them. Thanks.
Some say a hit dog will holler but if I was directing at you I would have quoted you. I wasn't, so I didn't. I was commenting on what I suspect will be rising anti-Chinese sentiment resulting from realizing they are supplanting the US/west as a world leader/s.
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Well, this kind of highlights the difference in federal and state response right now. I don't think I've ever seen a public statement from a Governor like this, not since at least the 19th century (maybe George Wallace). Illinois governor, about O'Hare airport crowding.
This level of crowding and close contact is the perfect conditions for spreading the virus, and this is a direct result of federal issues - the state can't do anything about it (immigrations is run by the Federal).
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On March 16 2020 02:28 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2020 02:07 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 15 2020 20:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
I get the feeling the sinophobia is going to increase exponentially as we become increasingly dependent on China bailing the western world out of our series of cascading failures. Wtf does that have to do with sinophobia, we'll probably never know. Your insinuation of racism are not only misplaced, they are highly insulting. Pointing out that chinese political culture is highly toxic and has contributed to the crisis is not racism. I don't like dictatorships, and it's in dictatorships that the messenger gets shot for "spreading rumors" when they raise the alarm, because they are systems centered on the survival of their regime. I would appreciate if you kept your accusations of biggotry for those who deserve them. Thanks. Some say a hit dog will holler but if I was directing at you I would have quoted you. I wasn't, so I didn't. I was commenting on what I suspect will be rising anti-Chinese sentiment resulting from realizing they are supplanting the US as a world leader.
Right. It just happened I criticized China and the next post you talk out of the blue about sinophobia. But thanks for the clarification.
I think that as usual, it's about differencing between critic of the Chinese regime and leadership, which is absolutely abhorrent, and resentment of the country as a whole. Unsurprisingly Trump nurture the later and abstains of the former. That being said, chinese propaganda is remarkably good at accusing of sinophobia critics of its regime, or its absolutely abysmal record on human rights.
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On March 16 2020 02:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2020 02:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 16 2020 02:07 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 15 2020 20:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
I get the feeling the sinophobia is going to increase exponentially as we become increasingly dependent on China bailing the western world out of our series of cascading failures. Wtf does that have to do with sinophobia, we'll probably never know. Your insinuation of racism are not only misplaced, they are highly insulting. Pointing out that chinese political culture is highly toxic and has contributed to the crisis is not racism. I don't like dictatorships, and it's in dictatorships that the messenger gets shot for "spreading rumors" when they raise the alarm, because they are systems centered on the survival of their regime. I would appreciate if you kept your accusations of biggotry for those who deserve them. Thanks. Some say a hit dog will holler but if I was directing at you I would have quoted you. I wasn't, so I didn't. I was commenting on what I suspect will be rising anti-Chinese sentiment resulting from realizing they are supplanting the US as a world leader. Right. It just happened I criticized China and the next post you talk out of the blue about sinophobia. But thanks for the clarification. I think that as usual, it's about differencing between critic of the Chinese regime and leadership, which is absolutely abhorrent, and resentment of the country as a whole. Unsurprisingly Trump nurture the later and abstains of the former. That being said, chinese propaganda is remarkably good at accusing of sinophobia critics of its regime, or its absolutely abysmal record on human rights.
I think folks need a Chinese politics thread personally, but that isn't unique to China. Attacks of being "Anti-American" and "they hate us for our freedom" propaganda helped paved the way for the slaughtering of countless innocent people throughout the middle east for the last couple decades. As usual my position is one of removing the plank from one's eye.
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On March 16 2020 02:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2020 02:35 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 16 2020 02:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 16 2020 02:07 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 15 2020 20:51 GreenHorizons wrote:
I get the feeling the sinophobia is going to increase exponentially as we become increasingly dependent on China bailing the western world out of our series of cascading failures. Wtf does that have to do with sinophobia, we'll probably never know. Your insinuation of racism are not only misplaced, they are highly insulting. Pointing out that chinese political culture is highly toxic and has contributed to the crisis is not racism. I don't like dictatorships, and it's in dictatorships that the messenger gets shot for "spreading rumors" when they raise the alarm, because they are systems centered on the survival of their regime. I would appreciate if you kept your accusations of biggotry for those who deserve them. Thanks. Some say a hit dog will holler but if I was directing at you I would have quoted you. I wasn't, so I didn't. I was commenting on what I suspect will be rising anti-Chinese sentiment resulting from realizing they are supplanting the US as a world leader. Right. It just happened I criticized China and the next post you talk out of the blue about sinophobia. But thanks for the clarification. I think that as usual, it's about differencing between critic of the Chinese regime and leadership, which is absolutely abhorrent, and resentment of the country as a whole. Unsurprisingly Trump nurture the later and abstains of the former. That being said, chinese propaganda is remarkably good at accusing of sinophobia critics of its regime, or its absolutely abysmal record on human rights. I think folks need a Chinese politics thread personally, but that isn't unique to China. Attacks of being "Anti-American" and "they hate us for our freedom" propaganda helped paved the way for the slaughtering of countless innocent people throughout the middle east for the last couple decades. As usual my position is one of removing the plank from one's eye.
I always am a bit skeptical of people who think that discussing means "removing the plank from one's eye" as I find the implications are supremely condescending (hey maybe we are the ones that need plank removal, thought about that?), but I agree. As someone mentioned, it's the same circus with Israel (criticize the colonial process? Antisemitism!!)
I think it's kind of worth remembering how god awful the chinese politics are. We talk of a regime putting hundred of thousand of people in what is described as genuine concentration camps on ethnic bases, and that's the tip of the iceberg. It's as "sinophobic" to criticize Xi and his goon as it was being germanophobe to say that nazi germany was doing fucking awful things in 1935.
Then again, the anti-chinese rhetoric of the clown in chief has nothing to do with ruthless dictatorship and concentration camp, and is genuinely based on something that looks more like xenophobia.
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On March 15 2020 16:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2020 14:24 LegalLord wrote:On March 15 2020 14:03 Mohdoo wrote:On March 15 2020 13:30 LegalLord wrote:
There's something to be said for NOT following along with China in basically declaring martial law in response to a crisis. It may have helped to stem the crisis (and frankly, I'm not convinced - their numbers seem quite fictional and we don't know if it'll come surging back in short order), but when going that far the cure is likely worse than the disease. Closing the borders is one thing, but it's troubling how much support there is for a "do exactly what China did" approach to this crisis. Those scorched earth solutions don't exactly have the best track record, historically. I think people have boners for South Korea, not China. When is the last time China provided a single valid number, in any context whatsoever? The mediaverse is clearly focusing in their praise on China and the way that it quickly "contained" the crisis. The unreliable narrator problem often isn't acknowledged as much as it should be, but frankly I'm not sure what evidence we have one way or the other since it's surprisingly easy to hide a massive death toll in a country like that. If we're talking about countries that handled this the best, I'd put Vietnam and Singapore pretty far up there on the list. South Korea did have the whole "patient 31" crisis, which I'd attribute to bad luck more than any particular form of incompetence, but that still kind of mars the handling of the epidemic. Xi wants people to forget that it's the toxic political culture of his country that allowed this crisis to exist in the first place. Like the USSR used to be, it's more important to contain the news than the problem in China; in a free country, precious weeks wouldn't have been lost in Wuhan. So the party's PR machine is turning fully to flood the world with the news of the heroic efforts of China and how great they are doing. Good medias see through it though. The NYT reminds its reader of those facts regularly for example.
In a what you called "free country", the disease has spread while we were actually aware of it, stop spreading the bs from our free media which want to prove that our plutocraties are so much superior than China.
China has informed the WHO of a new pneumonia the 31 december with 44 cases identified as it is explained in their report of 21 january, it was the very beginning of it, stop spreading fake news for your political agenda.
The same can be said when le monde published conspiracy article on the supposed lie of China's gov about the number of victims.
Or the numerous articles against Iran which are masking yet another crime against humanity commited by the West : the sanctions against Iran while the country is facing the coronavirus. People who are supporting these policies and propaganda are directly responsible for these deaths.
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On March 16 2020 01:44 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2020 01:42 JohnDelaney wrote:China has half the homeless population by proportion as Canada, 0.18% and 0.36% respectively. Source: Stanford, OECD If you count where a bunch of the poor Chinese people as homes, that is probably correct. And does nothing to counter my points.
Save that China is only what it is BECAUSE of the US. China isn't the endgame at all, because China's economic surge is the consequence of being the produce capital for other Capitalist nations.
You're trying to place them outside the system rather than seeing their place within it.
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On March 16 2020 05:45 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2020 16:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 15 2020 14:24 LegalLord wrote:On March 15 2020 14:03 Mohdoo wrote:On March 15 2020 13:30 LegalLord wrote:
There's something to be said for NOT following along with China in basically declaring martial law in response to a crisis. It may have helped to stem the crisis (and frankly, I'm not convinced - their numbers seem quite fictional and we don't know if it'll come surging back in short order), but when going that far the cure is likely worse than the disease. Closing the borders is one thing, but it's troubling how much support there is for a "do exactly what China did" approach to this crisis. Those scorched earth solutions don't exactly have the best track record, historically. I think people have boners for South Korea, not China. When is the last time China provided a single valid number, in any context whatsoever? The mediaverse is clearly focusing in their praise on China and the way that it quickly "contained" the crisis. The unreliable narrator problem often isn't acknowledged as much as it should be, but frankly I'm not sure what evidence we have one way or the other since it's surprisingly easy to hide a massive death toll in a country like that. If we're talking about countries that handled this the best, I'd put Vietnam and Singapore pretty far up there on the list. South Korea did have the whole "patient 31" crisis, which I'd attribute to bad luck more than any particular form of incompetence, but that still kind of mars the handling of the epidemic. Xi wants people to forget that it's the toxic political culture of his country that allowed this crisis to exist in the first place. Like the USSR used to be, it's more important to contain the news than the problem in China; in a free country, precious weeks wouldn't have been lost in Wuhan. So the party's PR machine is turning fully to flood the world with the news of the heroic efforts of China and how great they are doing. Good medias see through it though. The NYT reminds its reader of those facts regularly for example. In a what you called "free country", the disease has spread while we were actually aware of it, stop spreading the bs from our free media which want to prove that our plutocraties are so much superior than China. China has informed the WHO of a new pneumonia the 31 december with 44 cases identified as it is explained in their report of 21 january, it was the very beginning of it, stop spreading fake news for your political agenda. The same can be said when le monde published conspiracy article on the supposed lie of China's gov about the number of victims. Or the numerous articles against Iran which are masking yet another crime against humanity commited by the West : the sanctions against Iran while the country is facing the coronavirus. People who are supporting these policies and propaganda are directly responsible for these deaths.
I mean, I don't think its fair to refer to severe distrust of official numbers reported by the Chinese regime (on any topic whatsoever) as a conspiracy theory. They have been proven to lie about everything from the existence of concentration camps for particular ethnic groups to their GDP numbers.
As for Iran, I think it's true that the sanctions are awful and are hurting lots of people. I also think its true that its an authoritarian regime more than than happy to lie as much as possible in order to to get a leg up in the propaganda war. As evidenced by their reaction to accidentally downing that airliner. The two things seem unrelated.
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Northern Ireland25995 Posts
On March 16 2020 07:17 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2020 06:49 iamthedave wrote:On March 16 2020 01:44 JimmiC wrote:On March 16 2020 01:42 JohnDelaney wrote:China has half the homeless population by proportion as Canada, 0.18% and 0.36% respectively. Source: Stanford, OECD If you count where a bunch of the poor Chinese people as homes, that is probably correct. And does nothing to counter my points. Save that China is only what it is BECAUSE of the US. China isn't the endgame at all, because China's economic surge is the consequence of being the produce capital for other Capitalist nations. You're trying to place them outside the system rather than seeing their place within it. Nope, I'm pointing out that they are in the system and doing it better than anyone else, because they use their free labour to out compete the rest of the world and enrich themselves. They are doing what people are fearing US oligarchs will do as they by politics. The Chinese Oligarchs have skipped that step, they simply are the government and are using everything in their power to make it the best for themselves and not the Chinese people. There is absolutely nothing from their leadership to actually give ownership to the workers and share in the gains like socialists are supposed to do. Instead they are doing what robber barons do and abusing the human rights of their workers while enriching themselves and other elites. It is actually mind boggling to me that some people believe China is a communist country. I'd love someone to explain why they think they are, because my knowledge of socialism does not include a group of powerful billionaire's running everything while the vast majority of the population lives in squalor.
Why are you so against China in this domain? This literally happens in the West?
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The irony of Trump's own nation being labeled as a shithole country, when it comes to healthcare.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/mpVxKwh.jpg)
Norwegian University certainly isn't wrong either, especially when it comes to how seriously our country's leader had been taking the pandemic (before finally declaring a national emergency). I hope this comes up during tonight's debate, and I hope Trump and Pence are forced... somehow... to actually help save American lives. That'd be a nice change of pace.
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On March 16 2020 06:56 KlaCkoN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2020 05:45 stilt wrote:On March 15 2020 16:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 15 2020 14:24 LegalLord wrote:On March 15 2020 14:03 Mohdoo wrote:On March 15 2020 13:30 LegalLord wrote:
There's something to be said for NOT following along with China in basically declaring martial law in response to a crisis. It may have helped to stem the crisis (and frankly, I'm not convinced - their numbers seem quite fictional and we don't know if it'll come surging back in short order), but when going that far the cure is likely worse than the disease. Closing the borders is one thing, but it's troubling how much support there is for a "do exactly what China did" approach to this crisis. Those scorched earth solutions don't exactly have the best track record, historically. I think people have boners for South Korea, not China. When is the last time China provided a single valid number, in any context whatsoever? The mediaverse is clearly focusing in their praise on China and the way that it quickly "contained" the crisis. The unreliable narrator problem often isn't acknowledged as much as it should be, but frankly I'm not sure what evidence we have one way or the other since it's surprisingly easy to hide a massive death toll in a country like that. If we're talking about countries that handled this the best, I'd put Vietnam and Singapore pretty far up there on the list. South Korea did have the whole "patient 31" crisis, which I'd attribute to bad luck more than any particular form of incompetence, but that still kind of mars the handling of the epidemic. Xi wants people to forget that it's the toxic political culture of his country that allowed this crisis to exist in the first place. Like the USSR used to be, it's more important to contain the news than the problem in China; in a free country, precious weeks wouldn't have been lost in Wuhan. So the party's PR machine is turning fully to flood the world with the news of the heroic efforts of China and how great they are doing. Good medias see through it though. The NYT reminds its reader of those facts regularly for example. In a what you called "free country", the disease has spread while we were actually aware of it, stop spreading the bs from our free media which want to prove that our plutocraties are so much superior than China. China has informed the WHO of a new pneumonia the 31 december with 44 cases identified as it is explained in their report of 21 january, it was the very beginning of it, stop spreading fake news for your political agenda. The same can be said when le monde published conspiracy article on the supposed lie of China's gov about the number of victims. Or the numerous articles against Iran which are masking yet another crime against humanity commited by the West : the sanctions against Iran while the country is facing the coronavirus. People who are supporting these policies and propaganda are directly responsible for these deaths. I mean, I don't think its fair to refer to severe distrust of official numbers reported by the Chinese regime (on any topic whatsoever) as a conspiracy theory. They have been proven to lie about everything from the existence of concentration camps for particular ethnic groups to their GDP numbers. As for Iran, I think it's true that the sanctions are awful and are hurting lots of people. I also think its true that its an authoritarian regime more than than happy to lie as much as possible in order to to get a leg up in the propaganda war. As evidenced by their reaction to accidentally downing that airliner. The two things seem unrelated.
I guess this sort of thinking allowed our plutocraties to slaughter 1 million iraqis in name of "democracy" (+ destroyed their nation state which led to Daesh and worsened lives condition)
https://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/2020/03/02/coronavirus-a-wuhan-on-transporte-les-cadavres-dans-des-sacs-emportes-sur-des-charrettes_6031465_3232.html
This article is from march 2, there are no excuses.
Straight up lying with the testimony of a single opposant might not be conspiracy but it instumentalizes the fear of people to reach a political goal.
Considering the propaganda war conducted by the West, i'd say the ouighour case is vastly overexagerated and any way, the west does worse by stealing a country and bombarding its population while parking it (hello Deal of the century !). That said, it is quite terrible from the CPC but their geopolitical actions are still so much less damaging than USA which is destroying states, killing people left and right.
It is not just terrible, it is a crime against humanity knowingly caused because they dare to oppose america. And considering the economic and even ideological ties between the Saudis and the West + its crimes, human rights are meaningless in geopolitics, no one cares about them, especially the West, they are nothing more than a rhetorical weapon.
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Norway28706 Posts
On March 16 2020 08:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:The irony of Trump's own nation being labeled as a shithole country, when it comes to healthcare. Norwegian University certainly isn't wrong either, especially when it comes to how seriously our country's leader had been taking the pandemic (before finally declaring a national emergency). I hope this comes up during tonight's debate, and I hope Trump and Pence are forced... somehow... to actually help save American lives. That'd be a nice change of pace.
This is the university where I earned my degree and my wife currently works there. It's a real quote too. :D
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So the news is a few hours old, but hasn’t been posted here yet. The Fed just announced another two measures: interest rates down from 1% to 0%, and they’re doing $700 billion of quantitative easing. Another attempt to bolster the economy after the coronavirus shutdown has brought things to a standstill.
The Federal Reserve, saying “the coronavirus outbreak has harmed communities and disrupted economic activity in many countries, including the United States,” cut interest rates to essentially zero on Sunday and launched a massive $700 billion quantitative easing program to shelter the economy from the effects of the virus.
The new fed funds rate, used as a benchmark both for short-term lending for financial institutions and as a peg to many consumer rates, will now be targeted at 0% to 0.25% down from a previous target range of 1% to 1.25%.
Facing highly disrupted financial markets, the Fed also slashed the rate of emergency lending at the discount window for banks by 125 basis points to 0.25%, and lengthened the term of loans to 90 days.
Source
Well, I think that that’s it; the Fed has shot their wad here. That’s just about the full extent of monetary policy that we have, and I’d say it’s wasted at a time when it has the least chance of doing any good. This bodes poorly.
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Not wise for that Norwegian university to deride the US like that on a public social media post. Trump administration has repeatedly shown to be spiteful. They may pressure certain organizations to cut funding to NTNU and/or put more tariffs against Norway (added on top of the March 2018 tariffs against Norway).
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On March 16 2020 06:56 KlaCkoN wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2020 05:45 stilt wrote:On March 15 2020 16:48 Biff The Understudy wrote:On March 15 2020 14:24 LegalLord wrote:On March 15 2020 14:03 Mohdoo wrote:On March 15 2020 13:30 LegalLord wrote:
There's something to be said for NOT following along with China in basically declaring martial law in response to a crisis. It may have helped to stem the crisis (and frankly, I'm not convinced - their numbers seem quite fictional and we don't know if it'll come surging back in short order), but when going that far the cure is likely worse than the disease. Closing the borders is one thing, but it's troubling how much support there is for a "do exactly what China did" approach to this crisis. Those scorched earth solutions don't exactly have the best track record, historically. I think people have boners for South Korea, not China. When is the last time China provided a single valid number, in any context whatsoever? The mediaverse is clearly focusing in their praise on China and the way that it quickly "contained" the crisis. The unreliable narrator problem often isn't acknowledged as much as it should be, but frankly I'm not sure what evidence we have one way or the other since it's surprisingly easy to hide a massive death toll in a country like that. If we're talking about countries that handled this the best, I'd put Vietnam and Singapore pretty far up there on the list. South Korea did have the whole "patient 31" crisis, which I'd attribute to bad luck more than any particular form of incompetence, but that still kind of mars the handling of the epidemic. Xi wants people to forget that it's the toxic political culture of his country that allowed this crisis to exist in the first place. Like the USSR used to be, it's more important to contain the news than the problem in China; in a free country, precious weeks wouldn't have been lost in Wuhan. So the party's PR machine is turning fully to flood the world with the news of the heroic efforts of China and how great they are doing. Good medias see through it though. The NYT reminds its reader of those facts regularly for example. In a what you called "free country", the disease has spread while we were actually aware of it, stop spreading the bs from our free media which want to prove that our plutocraties are so much superior than China. China has informed the WHO of a new pneumonia the 31 december with 44 cases identified as it is explained in their report of 21 january, it was the very beginning of it, stop spreading fake news for your political agenda. The same can be said when le monde published conspiracy article on the supposed lie of China's gov about the number of victims. Or the numerous articles against Iran which are masking yet another crime against humanity commited by the West : the sanctions against Iran while the country is facing the coronavirus. People who are supporting these policies and propaganda are directly responsible for these deaths. I mean, I don't think its fair to refer to severe distrust of official numbers reported by the Chinese regime (on any topic whatsoever) as a conspiracy theory. They have been proven to lie about everything from the existence of concentration camps for particular ethnic groups to their GDP numbers. As for Iran, I think it's true that the sanctions are awful and are hurting lots of people. I also think its true that its an authoritarian regime more than than happy to lie as much as possible in order to to get a leg up in the propaganda war. As evidenced by their reaction to accidentally downing that airliner. The two things seem unrelated.
Are people of the opinion that the US government is being more honest and upfront than China regarding infection numbers today?
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Northern Ireland25995 Posts
On March 16 2020 09:05 JimmiC wrote:
Why do people keep posting as if the people saying negative things about other countries are somehow absolving the US of its misdeeds? It is often the same people who are saying that Saudi Arabia government is shit that are also saying that China Government is shit and that the American Government is shit and foreign policy has been awful and continued to be awful.
Pointing out factually why China's government is shit does not make the US the good guys. There are multiple Good guys and bad guys and even within those countries governments there are varying levels of good guys and bad guys. There is a whole bunch of shit in the world, and it is OK to point it out everywhere. In fact you should because the goal shouldn't be proving who is the worst but getting all these shitty people out of power.
People need to start being just as critical of the actions of those they consider "to be on their team" as they are of the people on the "other team". And also stop making the logically in-congruent assumption that if someone is talking poorly about what Government A is doing that they must be fully supportive of Government B. That is not how the world works.
No one should be defending the Chinese, Venezuelan , North Korean, and so on governments because they believe in socialism, because those governments are giving socialism a horrible name by not following its principals but pretending they are and that all the problems are "propaganda".
People who believe in neoliberalism should not defend the US actions in the Middle East, South America and so on, because they are giving it a horrible name by not following many of its principals and pretending that they are and they need to because if they don't the paragraph above this version of socialism is coming to get us. Because that is also propaganda.
The sad truth is most of the world is run by a bunch of rich and powerful assholes who want us all pointing fingers at each other and not notice that they are the fucking problem. Whether that is the Donald, Xi, Putin, MBS or any of the other evil people who only really care about their own wealth and power. The thing in the west we need to care the most about and work the hardest to protect is the checks and balances that keep someone from rising to absolute power, because there has yes to be anyone who has and has not made it incredibly awesome for themselves and incredibly awful for everyone else.
Well ok but what do you believe in? Half your posts are about how China/Venezuela etc are bad and that’s about it, the other half is just milquetoast ‘It could be worse’ liberalism and it’s just irritating really.
Just constant talk about checks and balances as if they work lmao
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On March 16 2020 09:18 JohnDelaney wrote:
Not wise for that Norwegian university to deride the US like that on a public social media post. Trump administration has repeatedly shown to be spiteful. They may pressure certain organizations to cut funding to NTNU and/or put more tariffs against Norway (added on top of the March 2018 tariffs against Norway).
The entire world can't censor themselves from saying accurate things just because Trump is a sensitive little snowflake that gets triggered easily by actual facts.
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EPT
