Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
I think the only strings are that the Chinese are going to go, "See? Look how we're helping the "foremost world power" because of their incredible ineptitude at this thing we've already handled! Maybe its time we stopped considering THEM the foremost world power, and take a ride on Big Daddy China's lap, huh?"
That is to say, China probably just wants the face this will get them and the face this loses the US.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Not quite sure whether irony or not due to the answer to GHs post. This would set a precedent for compensation claims against the US though, so not sure it's a win situation.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
On March 16 2020 14:40 Nevuk wrote: Unless china literally manufactured it and released it into the world ON PURPOSE, I don't see why they're at fault. Negligent, maybe, in allowing their strange open air markets to operate, but not to the point where they could reasonably be expected to owe reparations. It's not like they knew how bad it could get, and they definitely let the world know about it once they did. The thing is that weird, random ass mutations can originate ANYWHERE, and this one just happened to start in China. It spreading so rapidly isn't even a strike against them, as it has such a crazy long incubation period that no one could have predicted. If it had originated in Nigeria, there would be no conversations to be had about them reimbursing the world because they wouldn't have any resources with which to do so.
The spanish flu has since been apparently traced in origin to the US, should the US now reimburse Europe for all the losses in 1917-18?
Most experts have said China handled it very poorly in the first couple of weeks, and then handled it extremely well (F for first 2-3 weeks, B+ since). As opposed to the US which is handling it horribly even now, and recently had one of the coronavirus press conferences include a portion where they told the press to stop the negative coverage.
Source? From what I've read while trying to figure out why so many of the big diseases lately have been coming from China, the prevailing theory was that the Spanish Flu was the result of soldiers setting up poorly thought out temporary settlements in WW1 that mirror problems China has with being a disease breeding ground.
On March 16 2020 14:40 Nevuk wrote: Unless china literally manufactured it and released it into the world ON PURPOSE, I don't see why they're at fault. Negligent, maybe, in allowing their strange open air markets to operate, but not to the point where they could reasonably be expected to owe reparations. It's not like they knew how bad it could get, and they definitely let the world know about it once they did. The thing is that weird, random ass mutations can originate ANYWHERE, and this one just happened to start in China. It spreading so rapidly isn't even a strike against them, as it has such a crazy long incubation period that no one could have predicted. If it had originated in Nigeria, there would be no conversations to be had about them reimbursing the world because they wouldn't have any resources with which to do so.
The spanish flu has since been apparently traced in origin to the US, should the US now reimburse Europe for all the losses in 1917-18?
Most experts have said China handled it very poorly in the first couple of weeks, and then handled it extremely well (F for first 2-3 weeks, B+ since). As opposed to the US which is handling it horribly even now, and recently had one of the coronavirus press conferences include a portion where they told the press to stop the negative coverage.
Source? From what I've read while trying to figure out why so many of the big diseases lately have been coming from China, the prevailing theory was that the Spanish Flu was the result of soldiers setting up poorly thought out temporary settlements in WW1 that mirror problems China has with being a disease breeding ground.
It's not definitely determined where the Spanish Flu originated, but the US is one of the most likely candidates. Almost certainly did American soldiers bring the disease to Europe and the European battlefield.
There is a theory that the Spanish Flu was brought into the US from China before it was carried to Europe, but this is not conclusive. Backtracking the disease leads to the US.
Here is an entertaining take at the history of the Spanish Flu
We need to just skip all Debt payments(mortgage, auto loans, rent, credit cards, etc) for 2 months and hunker down.
If we pause everything for a month and restart at the same time well get through this easier. Things are just going to keep going down without the govt taking drastic action
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
If you stop with the whole ploutocracy thing, it would be easier to take your posts seriously. I don't day that to be needlessly aggressive, I mean it. It reads like an Arlette Laguillier tract.
China handled it like shit and lost weeks where the whole thing could have been stopped because containing the news mattered more than containing the virus. Which is typical of dictatorships. In any democracy, the information would have been immediately available.
On March 16 2020 22:32 GreenHorizons wrote: Dow opened to an instant freeze and managed to lose 9.7% before they could freeze it.
Possible they just halt all trading for the next couple months?
Freeze is meant to be a "calm down" button, not to stop the market from crashing. If corona changed the economy such that companies are 40% less profitable on average (number taken out of ass), then the freeze will do nothing nor is it expected or meant to.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
China handled it like shit and lost weeks where the whole thing could have been stopped because containing the news mattered more than containing the virus. Which is typical of dictatorships. In any democracy, the information would have been immediately available.
I feel like the US and UK are demonstrating there was plenty of room for China to react worse as well as their democracies and that availability of information not being very helpful where outcomes are concerned.
the chinese initially though the virus is transmissible animal to human only; they were trying to find the animal then ban it from human consumption. in mid january a team of experts from Hong Kong came to Wuhan and proved the virus is transmissible human to human but by that time it was to late; the number of those infected was in the thousands. panic ensued, lies soon followed, and the rest is history.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
I already elaborated on this and addressed your points, so not going to repeat.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Not quite sure whether irony or not due to the answer to GHs post. This would set a precedent for compensation claims against the US though, so not sure it's a win situation.
Why wouldn't it be a win? A precedent that large entities are responsible for what they do sounds entirely reasonable to me. It is easy to see how current issues on our planet can be related to lack of accountability once you are sufficiently powerful. US/Russia/China all have outstanding examples of why we need accountability.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
China handled it like shit and lost weeks where the whole thing could have been stopped because containing the news mattered more than containing the virus. Which is typical of dictatorships. In any democracy, the information would have been immediately available.
I feel like the US and UK are demonstrating there was plenty of room for China to react worse as well as their democracies and that availability of information not being very helpful where outcomes are concerned.
You keep trying to point out that other countries doing a bad or worse job in anyway invalidates China's failures. It doesn't. China tried to cover this up rather than focusing on full-on prevention. That crucial decision greatly amplified their guilt.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
I already elaborated on this and addressed your points, so not going to repeat.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Not quite sure whether irony or not due to the answer to GHs post. This would set a precedent for compensation claims against the US though, so not sure it's a win situation.
Why wouldn't it be a win? A precedent that large entities are responsible for what they do sounds entirely reasonable to me. It is easy to see how current issues on our planet can be related to lack of accountability once you are sufficiently powerful. US/Russia/China all have outstanding examples of why we need accountability.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
China handled it like shit and lost weeks where the whole thing could have been stopped because containing the news mattered more than containing the virus. Which is typical of dictatorships. In any democracy, the information would have been immediately available.
I feel like the US and UK are demonstrating there was plenty of room for China to react worse as well as their democracies and that availability of information not being very helpful where outcomes are concerned.
You keep trying to point out that other countries doing a bad or worse job in anyway invalidates China's failures. It doesn't. China tried to cover this up rather than focusing on full-on prevention. That crucial decision greatly amplified their guilt.
The US also tried to cover it up, and did so for even longer than China (though in more of a "keep numbers down" rather than "nothing is happening at all" angle). I'm not seeing how that's irrelevant here, and it pretty much disproves the "wouldn't happen in a democracy angle". Or rather, I'm failing to see how whether or not China is to blame is relevant to US politics? It's not like the US alone could or would hold them accountable, the economies are too intertwined.
Also, punitive measures have an extremely bad track record when used in international politics.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
I already elaborated on this and addressed your points, so not going to repeat.
On March 16 2020 18:27 Artisreal wrote:
On March 16 2020 13:30 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Not quite sure whether irony or not due to the answer to GHs post. This would set a precedent for compensation claims against the US though, so not sure it's a win situation.
Why wouldn't it be a win? A precedent that large entities are responsible for what they do sounds entirely reasonable to me. It is easy to see how current issues on our planet can be related to lack of accountability once you are sufficiently powerful. US/Russia/China all have outstanding examples of why we need accountability.
On March 16 2020 23:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 16 2020 23:32 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 16 2020 18:34 stilt wrote:
On March 16 2020 13:30 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
China handled it like shit and lost weeks where the whole thing could have been stopped because containing the news mattered more than containing the virus. Which is typical of dictatorships. In any democracy, the information would have been immediately available.
I feel like the US and UK are demonstrating there was plenty of room for China to react worse as well as their democracies and that availability of information not being very helpful where outcomes are concerned.
You keep trying to point out that other countries doing a bad or worse job in anyway invalidates China's failures. It doesn't. China tried to cover this up rather than focusing on full-on prevention. That crucial decision greatly amplified their guilt.
The US also tried to cover it up, and did so for even longer than China. I'm not seeing how that's irrelevant here, and it pretty much disproves the "wouldn't happen in a democracy angle". Or rather, I'm failing to see how whether or not China is to blame is relevant to US politics? It's not like the US alone could or would hold them accountable, the economies are too intertwined.
Also, punitive measures have an extremely bad track record when used in international politics.
I feel like maybe part of the issue people are having with my posts is that people are assuming I am speaking from some "US good, China bad" perspective, which is not the case. I do not in any way identify with or take pride in America's place in the world. I live here and pay taxes to be here. That's where it ends. I want it to be a better place and I try to do so through voting. I'm not going to pretend I am defending the US. From my perspective, they are both well beyond shameful.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
I already elaborated on this and addressed your points, so not going to repeat.
On March 16 2020 18:27 Artisreal wrote:
On March 16 2020 13:30 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Not quite sure whether irony or not due to the answer to GHs post. This would set a precedent for compensation claims against the US though, so not sure it's a win situation.
Why wouldn't it be a win? A precedent that large entities are responsible for what they do sounds entirely reasonable to me. It is easy to see how current issues on our planet can be related to lack of accountability once you are sufficiently powerful. US/Russia/China all have outstanding examples of why we need accountability.
On March 16 2020 23:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 16 2020 23:32 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 16 2020 18:34 stilt wrote:
On March 16 2020 13:30 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
China handled it like shit and lost weeks where the whole thing could have been stopped because containing the news mattered more than containing the virus. Which is typical of dictatorships. In any democracy, the information would have been immediately available.
I feel like the US and UK are demonstrating there was plenty of room for China to react worse as well as their democracies and that availability of information not being very helpful where outcomes are concerned.
You keep trying to point out that other countries doing a bad or worse job in anyway invalidates China's failures. It doesn't. China tried to cover this up rather than focusing on full-on prevention. That crucial decision greatly amplified their guilt.
The US also tried to cover it up, and did so for even longer than China. I'm not seeing how that's irrelevant here, and it pretty much disproves the "wouldn't happen in a democracy angle". Or rather, I'm failing to see how whether or not China is to blame is relevant to US politics? It's not like the US alone could or would hold them accountable, the economies are too intertwined.
Also, punitive measures have an extremely bad track record when used in international politics.
I feel like maybe part of the issue people are having with my posts is that people are assuming I am speaking from some "US good, China bad" perspective, which is not the case. I do not in any way identify with or take pride in America's place in the world. I live here and pay taxes to be here. That's where it ends. I want it to be a better place and I try to do so through voting. I'm not going to pretend I am defending the US. From my perspective, they are both well beyond shameful.
I just don't think people expected anyone but me to advocate a position that would see the end of the US.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
I already elaborated on this and addressed your points, so not going to repeat.
On March 16 2020 18:27 Artisreal wrote:
On March 16 2020 13:30 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Not quite sure whether irony or not due to the answer to GHs post. This would set a precedent for compensation claims against the US though, so not sure it's a win situation.
Why wouldn't it be a win? A precedent that large entities are responsible for what they do sounds entirely reasonable to me. It is easy to see how current issues on our planet can be related to lack of accountability once you are sufficiently powerful. US/Russia/China all have outstanding examples of why we need accountability.
On March 16 2020 23:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 16 2020 23:32 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 16 2020 18:34 stilt wrote:
On March 16 2020 13:30 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
China handled it like shit and lost weeks where the whole thing could have been stopped because containing the news mattered more than containing the virus. Which is typical of dictatorships. In any democracy, the information would have been immediately available.
I feel like the US and UK are demonstrating there was plenty of room for China to react worse as well as their democracies and that availability of information not being very helpful where outcomes are concerned.
You keep trying to point out that other countries doing a bad or worse job in anyway invalidates China's failures. It doesn't. China tried to cover this up rather than focusing on full-on prevention. That crucial decision greatly amplified their guilt.
The US also tried to cover it up, and did so for even longer than China. I'm not seeing how that's irrelevant here, and it pretty much disproves the "wouldn't happen in a democracy angle". Or rather, I'm failing to see how whether or not China is to blame is relevant to US politics? It's not like the US alone could or would hold them accountable, the economies are too intertwined.
Also, punitive measures have an extremely bad track record when used in international politics.
I feel like maybe part of the issue people are having with my posts is that people are assuming I am speaking from some "US good, China bad" perspective, which is not the case. I do not in any way identify with or take pride in America's place in the world. I live here and pay taxes to be here. That's where it ends. I want it to be a better place and I try to do so through voting. I'm not going to pretend I am defending the US. From my perspective, they are both well beyond shameful.
I just don't think people expected anyone but me to advocate a position that would see the end of the US.
10,000 years from now, ideas like the US, China and Russia will all just be some shitty part of history. None of humanity's long-term goals should have anything to do with the idea of nation states or anything along those lines. I am a human first and I want humanity to thrive and advance. Bullshit narratives surrounding national identities only harm that pursuit. The ultimate goals of humanity have nothing to do with geographic designations. While I do think nations and stuff are an acceptable framework as an intermittent solution to helping to get people to collaborate and have a system within which to live, I am not going to pretend there is anything divine or supreme about the idea of the US/Russia/China. Not the first empires, but I hope they are the last ones and we move on as a planet at some point.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
I already elaborated on this and addressed your points, so not going to repeat.
On March 16 2020 18:27 Artisreal wrote:
On March 16 2020 13:30 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Not quite sure whether irony or not due to the answer to GHs post. This would set a precedent for compensation claims against the US though, so not sure it's a win situation.
Why wouldn't it be a win? A precedent that large entities are responsible for what they do sounds entirely reasonable to me. It is easy to see how current issues on our planet can be related to lack of accountability once you are sufficiently powerful. US/Russia/China all have outstanding examples of why we need accountability.
On March 16 2020 23:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
On March 16 2020 23:32 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On March 16 2020 18:34 stilt wrote:
On March 16 2020 13:30 Mohdoo wrote:
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote: First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf. I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning. Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
China handled it like shit and lost weeks where the whole thing could have been stopped because containing the news mattered more than containing the virus. Which is typical of dictatorships. In any democracy, the information would have been immediately available.
I feel like the US and UK are demonstrating there was plenty of room for China to react worse as well as their democracies and that availability of information not being very helpful where outcomes are concerned.
You keep trying to point out that other countries doing a bad or worse job in anyway invalidates China's failures. It doesn't. China tried to cover this up rather than focusing on full-on prevention. That crucial decision greatly amplified their guilt.
The US also tried to cover it up, and did so for even longer than China. I'm not seeing how that's irrelevant here, and it pretty much disproves the "wouldn't happen in a democracy angle". Or rather, I'm failing to see how whether or not China is to blame is relevant to US politics? It's not like the US alone could or would hold them accountable, the economies are too intertwined.
Also, punitive measures have an extremely bad track record when used in international politics.
I feel like maybe part of the issue people are having with my posts is that people are assuming I am speaking from some "US good, China bad" perspective, which is not the case. I do not in any way identify with or take pride in America's place in the world. I live here and pay taxes to be here. That's where it ends. I want it to be a better place and I try to do so through voting. I'm not going to pretend I am defending the US. From my perspective, they are both well beyond shameful.
I just don't think people expected anyone but me to advocate a position that would see the end of the US.
10,000 years from now, ideas like the US, China and Russia will all just be some shitty part of history. None of humanity's long-term goals should have anything to do with the idea of nation states or anything along those lines. I am a human first and I want humanity to thrive and advance. Bullshit narratives surrounding national identities only harm that pursuit. The ultimate goals of humanity have nothing to do with geographic designations. While I do think nations and stuff are an acceptable framework as an intermittent solution to helping to get people to collaborate and have a system within which to live, I am not going to pretend there is anything divine or supreme about the idea of the US/Russia/China. Not the first empires, but I hope they are the last ones and we move on as a planet at some point.
I agree with the sentiment but think the immediacy for which your argument would necessitate the dissolution of the United States is reasonably shocking, even to me.
EPT
