EPTOn March 17 2020 00:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
I agree with the sentiment but think the immediacy for which your argument would necessitate the dissolution of the United States is reasonably shocking, even to me.
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2020 00:42 Mohdoo wrote:
10,000 years from now, ideas like the US, China and Russia will all just be some shitty part of history. None of humanity's long-term goals should have anything to do with the idea of nation states or anything along those lines. I am a human first and I want humanity to thrive and advance. Bullshit narratives surrounding national identities only harm that pursuit. The ultimate goals of humanity have nothing to do with geographic designations. While I do think nations and stuff are an acceptable framework as an intermittent solution to helping to get people to collaborate and have a system within which to live, I am not going to pretend there is anything divine or supreme about the idea of the US/Russia/China. Not the first empires, but I hope they are the last ones and we move on as a planet at some point.
On March 17 2020 00:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
I just don't think people expected anyone but me to advocate a position that would see the end of the US.
On March 17 2020 00:35 Mohdoo wrote:
I feel like maybe part of the issue people are having with my posts is that people are assuming I am speaking from some "US good, China bad" perspective, which is not the case. I do not in any way identify with or take pride in America's place in the world. I live here and pay taxes to be here. That's where it ends. I want it to be a better place and I try to do so through voting. I'm not going to pretend I am defending the US. From my perspective, they are both well beyond shameful.
On March 17 2020 00:33 Nevuk wrote:
The US also tried to cover it up, and did so for even longer than China. I'm not seeing how that's irrelevant here, and it pretty much disproves the "wouldn't happen in a democracy angle". Or rather, I'm failing to see how whether or not China is to blame is relevant to US politics? It's not like the US alone could or would hold them accountable, the economies are too intertwined.
Also, punitive measures have an extremely bad track record when used in international politics.
On March 17 2020 00:25 Mohdoo wrote:
I already elaborated on this and addressed your points, so not going to repeat.
Why wouldn't it be a win? A precedent that large entities are responsible for what they do sounds entirely reasonable to me. It is easy to see how current issues on our planet can be related to lack of accountability once you are sufficiently powerful. US/Russia/China all have outstanding examples of why we need accountability.
You keep trying to point out that other countries doing a bad or worse job in anyway invalidates China's failures. It doesn't. China tried to cover this up rather than focusing on full-on prevention. That crucial decision greatly amplified their guilt.
On March 16 2020 18:34 stilt wrote:
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf.
I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning.
Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
On March 16 2020 13:30 Mohdoo wrote:
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote:
First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf.
I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning.
Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
I already elaborated on this and addressed your points, so not going to repeat.
On March 16 2020 18:27 Artisreal wrote:
Not quite sure whether irony or not due to the answer to GHs post.
This would set a precedent for compensation claims against the US though, so not sure it's a win situation.
On March 16 2020 13:30 Mohdoo wrote:
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
On March 16 2020 12:55 GreenHorizons wrote:
First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
https://twitter.com/JackMa/status/1239388330405449728
First shipments of emergency relief aid (in the form of masks and test kits) from China are leaving for the US
https://twitter.com/JackMa/status/1239388330405449728
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Not quite sure whether irony or not due to the answer to GHs post.
This would set a precedent for compensation claims against the US though, so not sure it's a win situation.
Why wouldn't it be a win? A precedent that large entities are responsible for what they do sounds entirely reasonable to me. It is easy to see how current issues on our planet can be related to lack of accountability once you are sufficiently powerful. US/Russia/China all have outstanding examples of why we need accountability.
On March 16 2020 23:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
I feel like the US and UK are demonstrating there was plenty of room for China to react worse as well as their democracies and that availability of information not being very helpful where outcomes are concerned.
On March 16 2020 23:32 Biff The Understudy wrote:
China handled it like shit and lost weeks where the whole thing could have been stopped because containing the news mattered more than containing the virus. Which is typical of dictatorships. In any democracy, the information would have been immediately available.
On March 16 2020 18:34 stilt wrote:
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf.
I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning.
Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
On March 16 2020 13:30 Mohdoo wrote:
[quote]
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
[quote]
Inadequate because I consider the entire ordeal their fault. Anything less than complete reimbursement is insufficient. But this is good.
Damn, you are really shameless and entitled, asking for reperation after what your country has done and is still doing, wtf.
I guess africa should pay for ebola too with this reasonning.
Considering how our plutocraties are doing with the virus, it's just impossible to handle it when the epidemy begins in your country just cause the identification process and its threat will take time. China handled it very well, I know it's hard to swallow for the West but it's how it is.
But yes, do it but then paid for all the damages you did to the rest of the world than then you'll be a third world country until the end of time.
China handled it like shit and lost weeks where the whole thing could have been stopped because containing the news mattered more than containing the virus. Which is typical of dictatorships. In any democracy, the information would have been immediately available.
I feel like the US and UK are demonstrating there was plenty of room for China to react worse as well as their democracies and that availability of information not being very helpful where outcomes are concerned.
You keep trying to point out that other countries doing a bad or worse job in anyway invalidates China's failures. It doesn't. China tried to cover this up rather than focusing on full-on prevention. That crucial decision greatly amplified their guilt.
The US also tried to cover it up, and did so for even longer than China. I'm not seeing how that's irrelevant here, and it pretty much disproves the "wouldn't happen in a democracy angle". Or rather, I'm failing to see how whether or not China is to blame is relevant to US politics? It's not like the US alone could or would hold them accountable, the economies are too intertwined.
Also, punitive measures have an extremely bad track record when used in international politics.
I feel like maybe part of the issue people are having with my posts is that people are assuming I am speaking from some "US good, China bad" perspective, which is not the case. I do not in any way identify with or take pride in America's place in the world. I live here and pay taxes to be here. That's where it ends. I want it to be a better place and I try to do so through voting. I'm not going to pretend I am defending the US. From my perspective, they are both well beyond shameful.
I just don't think people expected anyone but me to advocate a position that would see the end of the US.
10,000 years from now, ideas like the US, China and Russia will all just be some shitty part of history. None of humanity's long-term goals should have anything to do with the idea of nation states or anything along those lines. I am a human first and I want humanity to thrive and advance. Bullshit narratives surrounding national identities only harm that pursuit. The ultimate goals of humanity have nothing to do with geographic designations. While I do think nations and stuff are an acceptable framework as an intermittent solution to helping to get people to collaborate and have a system within which to live, I am not going to pretend there is anything divine or supreme about the idea of the US/Russia/China. Not the first empires, but I hope they are the last ones and we move on as a planet at some point.
I agree with the sentiment but think the immediacy for which your argument would necessitate the dissolution of the United States is reasonably shocking, even to me.
The world has recovered from worse and we'd do it again. We're amazing creatures! We should just focus on being the best we can and dealing with the consequences that follow. We'll figure it out. But to be clear, I fully admit the dissolution of any of the big 3 without all 3 being gone would likely just make the world 10000000000000000x worse.
