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On September 28 2019 09:16 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2019 08:00 Inrau wrote:On September 28 2019 02:55 Mohdoo wrote:On September 28 2019 01:48 JimmiC wrote:
I guess that makes sense, it is just so hard to wrap my head around it because when I think of who I would want to be president it would be a very impressive, smart, well spoken person. I would want them to be an impressive person where even if I a disagreed with them on something I could still see that they were top notch. Trump is not impressive in almost anyway, he is simply famous and rich because his dad gave him tons of money. And the more he talks and the more that you look into actually how unsuccessful he has been in business it is embarrassing.
But I guess I see how that makes him relatable, and I don't think it is only not unintelligent people who like him either. I suspect it has a lot to do with how freaking powerful confirmation bias is. There is a ton of research on how powerful it is and how unaware we are of it effecting ourselves. It is kind of a painful rabbit hole to go down because you end up really critically looking into many things you believe and why, all while understanding that even that act is shaded by confirmation bias. Rural America has been catered too in such gross excess that they are told their failings are admirable and glorious. The various ways "city folk" and "coastal elites" are demonized are also intended to glorify the "true American" nature of rural America. When you tell people they should be proud of rather than fix their faults, it is easier for them to feel good about themselves. It is empowering. That's why you see bumper stickers that say "like eating food? THANK A FARMER" as if they are some sort of league of super heroes. If you kiss their asses, they'll vote for you. Disagree on the "like eating food? THANK A FARMER" I grew up in a rural area and that sort of saying is simply to remind people that almost everything you get at the grocery store comes from a farm, (and delivered by trucks etc.) Its easy to forget that honestly, especially with groceries being delivered to your doorstep now. There is a reason they call the midwest fly over country, because the general news doesn't really cover that area. But I do agree with the opposite, where people distrust the ivory tower educated folk .. that sort of mindset only limits peoples perspectives. Everything you eat comes from a farm. Every medicine you take is developed by a biochemist. Every surgery you get is from a doctor. Every city's plumbing system is designed by a chemical engineer. We are all completely useless without every single other component. What if no one picked up the garbage? What if there were no teachers? Our entire society completely shits itself if any single component is removed. A country comprised entirely of doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists and farmers would blow ass and can't nothing done. It would go belly up in a year. "LIKE FOOD? THANK A FARMER!!!!!!!" is making a conscious effort to point out the importance of perhaps the most obviously important thing on the planet: food. How many people do you think don't understand food is important? Fly over country is called fly over country because the nature of farming and agriculture necessitates an extraordinarily large amount of land not really be occupied by humans. It doesn't make it less important, but it does make it significantly less eventful. The tempo and direction of the country isn't determined in farms. Farms are still ***AMAZINGLY*** important, but it doesn't make them *eventful*. The focus of a culture does not reflect what said culture values or appreciates. Nebraska, Wyoming and South Dakota combined have less people than Oregon. New York City has DOUBLE the population of the entirety of Oregon. A state being less eventful does not mean it is less necessary and I honestly feel like most people fully understand farms are valuable. More people means more events and more culture and more of everything really. Humans create/contribute to stuff. Less people being there means less stuff happens, especially when these areas have been highly specialized for certain things.
For sure, I was only speaking from my anecdotal experience. The dairy farmers where I grew up felt very isolated from people and the government, their profit margins are very tight. And now with all the plant based milk/meat industries its even worse. It was a very supportive message, rather than a worship the veterans sort of deal.
And lastly, people dont care about farmers until they see food go to absurd prices, they might as well not even exist for most people. Where as Doctors/Teachers are very much in the forefront.
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I was driving around and saw like only one bumper sticker that read, "No farmers, no food."
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Lots of stuff happening today. It seems the impeachment got more officials talking to reporters.
Yesterday Giuliani showed a text with special envoy to Ukraine, Kurt Volker, implying he was also involved in the Ukraine/Biden stuff. Now Volker resigned. He's scheduled to be heard next week.
Giuliani was also scheduled to be a paid speaker, the only American, at a conference in Armenia with Putin attending next week. After reporting about this came out he canceled.
Pompeo gets subpoenaed for impeachment related documents, to be delivered within a week
CNN reports conversations with heads of state of Russia and Saudi Arabia are also hidden in classification by the administration
Wapo reports that Trump said in a 2017 meeting with Lavrov and Kislyak that he was unconcerned about Russian interference.
A Senate report came out that confirms close ties between Russia and NRA executives in 2015
NYT reports Trump met with that same NRA today to discuss support during impeachment...
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On September 28 2019 11:19 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Lots of stuff happening today. It seems the impeachment got more officials talking to reporters.
Yesterday Giuliani showed a text with special envoy to Ukraine, Kurt Volker, implying he was also involved in the Ukraine/Biden stuff. Now Volker resigned. He's scheduled to be heard next week.
Giuliani was also scheduled to be a paid speaker, the only American, at a conference in Armenia with Putin attending next week. After reporting about this came out he canceled.
Pompeo gets subpoenaed for impeachment related documents, to be delivered within a week
CNN reports conversations with heads of state of Russia and Saudi Arabia are also hidden in classification by the administration
Wapo reports that Trump said in a 2017 meeting with Lavrov and Kislyak that he was unconcerned about Russian interference.
A Senate report came out that confirms close ties between Russia and NRA executives in 2015
NYT reports Trump met with that same NRA today to discuss support during impeachment...
This seems so different from the Mueller investigation where maybe a every other month or so a little piece of info will come out about it. This is all in real time, and Trump and the WH aren't even trying to deny most of it. It's more a of a "Yeah it's true, but....."
With all this happening, and happening so fast, I still can't see Trump resigning. Even if the GOP fully turn on him.
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who cares if some one's son is an ass hole? i know one recent president whose son got elected in spite of them both being ass holes. why is this a thing. being an ass hole has no consequence on your chance of being president.
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biden's son is on his way to being president, as far as i understand history
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On September 28 2019 06:40 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2019 02:55 Mohdoo wrote:On September 28 2019 01:48 JimmiC wrote:
I guess that makes sense, it is just so hard to wrap my head around it because when I think of who I would want to be president it would be a very impressive, smart, well spoken person. I would want them to be an impressive person where even if I a disagreed with them on something I could still see that they were top notch. Trump is not impressive in almost anyway, he is simply famous and rich because his dad gave him tons of money. And the more he talks and the more that you look into actually how unsuccessful he has been in business it is embarrassing.
But I guess I see how that makes him relatable, and I don't think it is only not unintelligent people who like him either. I suspect it has a lot to do with how freaking powerful confirmation bias is. There is a ton of research on how powerful it is and how unaware we are of it effecting ourselves. It is kind of a painful rabbit hole to go down because you end up really critically looking into many things you believe and why, all while understanding that even that act is shaded by confirmation bias. Rural America has been catered too in such gross excess that they are told their failings are admirable and glorious. The various ways "city folk" and "coastal elites" are demonized are also intended to glorify the "true American" nature of rural America. When you tell people they should be proud of rather than fix their faults, it is easier for them to feel good about themselves. It is empowering. That's why you see bumper stickers that say "like eating food? THANK A FARMER" as if they are some sort of league of super heroes. If you kiss their asses, they'll vote for you. Add to that anti-intellectualism. I think one of the reason people distrusted Clinton so much is that she looks and talks smart and wonkish, and the fact that Trump talks like a complete retard has significantly helped him in that election; a significant fraction of the electorate find that authentic and more relatable. Tell people that something is complicated, will take time and patience, and has no cheap, quick fix and they think that you are trying to screw them over.
People distrusted Clinton because she is a the pinnacle of corruption in America.
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On September 28 2019 15:53 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2019 06:40 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 28 2019 02:55 Mohdoo wrote:On September 28 2019 01:48 JimmiC wrote:
I guess that makes sense, it is just so hard to wrap my head around it because when I think of who I would want to be president it would be a very impressive, smart, well spoken person. I would want them to be an impressive person where even if I a disagreed with them on something I could still see that they were top notch. Trump is not impressive in almost anyway, he is simply famous and rich because his dad gave him tons of money. And the more he talks and the more that you look into actually how unsuccessful he has been in business it is embarrassing.
But I guess I see how that makes him relatable, and I don't think it is only not unintelligent people who like him either. I suspect it has a lot to do with how freaking powerful confirmation bias is. There is a ton of research on how powerful it is and how unaware we are of it effecting ourselves. It is kind of a painful rabbit hole to go down because you end up really critically looking into many things you believe and why, all while understanding that even that act is shaded by confirmation bias. Rural America has been catered too in such gross excess that they are told their failings are admirable and glorious. The various ways "city folk" and "coastal elites" are demonized are also intended to glorify the "true American" nature of rural America. When you tell people they should be proud of rather than fix their faults, it is easier for them to feel good about themselves. It is empowering. That's why you see bumper stickers that say "like eating food? THANK A FARMER" as if they are some sort of league of super heroes. If you kiss their asses, they'll vote for you. Add to that anti-intellectualism. I think one of the reason people distrusted Clinton so much is that she looks and talks smart and wonkish, and the fact that Trump talks like a complete retard has significantly helped him in that election; a significant fraction of the electorate find that authentic and more relatable. Tell people that something is complicated, will take time and patience, and has no cheap, quick fix and they think that you are trying to screw them over. People distrusted Clinton because she is a the pinnacle of corruption in America.
Yeah, but no, she was not, really. Trump is several order of magnitude more compromised than she ever was, and her corruption scandals are completely dwarfed by his. And already were at the time of the election for whoever bothered to pay attention.
The fact that people believe such a thing really highlight that it’s really a question of image. Clinton is seen as disingenuous, unauthentic and insincere. Of course she has a part of responsibility there, but my point is that her wonkish, technocratic style ran straight into that idea that people who look and talk smart are probably trying to screw you.
And of course you have a guy who openly lies and openly screw everyone around him over, and people see him as genuine and authentic because he talks like an uneducated six grader. And people like that.
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I don't think even many Trump supporters genuinely like or admire him on a personal level, but that's not the point. True Trump believers are authoritarians: they want the nastiest person available to validate their way of life and attack the objects of their hatred. While I believe Trump's a genuine imbecile, he's also aware that acting like one arouses the wingnuts just like anything else that pokes the "elites" in the eye.
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On September 28 2019 15:53 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2019 06:40 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 28 2019 02:55 Mohdoo wrote:On September 28 2019 01:48 JimmiC wrote:
I guess that makes sense, it is just so hard to wrap my head around it because when I think of who I would want to be president it would be a very impressive, smart, well spoken person. I would want them to be an impressive person where even if I a disagreed with them on something I could still see that they were top notch. Trump is not impressive in almost anyway, he is simply famous and rich because his dad gave him tons of money. And the more he talks and the more that you look into actually how unsuccessful he has been in business it is embarrassing.
But I guess I see how that makes him relatable, and I don't think it is only not unintelligent people who like him either. I suspect it has a lot to do with how freaking powerful confirmation bias is. There is a ton of research on how powerful it is and how unaware we are of it effecting ourselves. It is kind of a painful rabbit hole to go down because you end up really critically looking into many things you believe and why, all while understanding that even that act is shaded by confirmation bias. Rural America has been catered too in such gross excess that they are told their failings are admirable and glorious. The various ways "city folk" and "coastal elites" are demonized are also intended to glorify the "true American" nature of rural America. When you tell people they should be proud of rather than fix their faults, it is easier for them to feel good about themselves. It is empowering. That's why you see bumper stickers that say "like eating food? THANK A FARMER" as if they are some sort of league of super heroes. If you kiss their asses, they'll vote for you. Add to that anti-intellectualism. I think one of the reason people distrusted Clinton so much is that she looks and talks smart and wonkish, and the fact that Trump talks like a complete retard has significantly helped him in that election; a significant fraction of the electorate find that authentic and more relatable. Tell people that something is complicated, will take time and patience, and has no cheap, quick fix and they think that you are trying to screw them over. People distrusted Clinton because she is a the pinnacle of corruption in America. The whole Cambridge Analytica scandal just went past you didn't it? I know it hurts to admit that you and a great portion of USA has been manipulated by sophisticated propaganda techniques from Steve Bannon, testing and targeting messages towards you and people of your profile but at some point you just have to own up to it.
For instance you wrote she is the pinnacle of corruption, yet you declined to say what pinnacle of corruption that would be. This is an opportunity for you to examine your beliefs and your sources of information and how you interact with them.
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On September 28 2019 17:56 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2019 15:53 BerserkSword wrote:On September 28 2019 06:40 Biff The Understudy wrote:On September 28 2019 02:55 Mohdoo wrote:On September 28 2019 01:48 JimmiC wrote:
I guess that makes sense, it is just so hard to wrap my head around it because when I think of who I would want to be president it would be a very impressive, smart, well spoken person. I would want them to be an impressive person where even if I a disagreed with them on something I could still see that they were top notch. Trump is not impressive in almost anyway, he is simply famous and rich because his dad gave him tons of money. And the more he talks and the more that you look into actually how unsuccessful he has been in business it is embarrassing.
But I guess I see how that makes him relatable, and I don't think it is only not unintelligent people who like him either. I suspect it has a lot to do with how freaking powerful confirmation bias is. There is a ton of research on how powerful it is and how unaware we are of it effecting ourselves. It is kind of a painful rabbit hole to go down because you end up really critically looking into many things you believe and why, all while understanding that even that act is shaded by confirmation bias. Rural America has been catered too in such gross excess that they are told their failings are admirable and glorious. The various ways "city folk" and "coastal elites" are demonized are also intended to glorify the "true American" nature of rural America. When you tell people they should be proud of rather than fix their faults, it is easier for them to feel good about themselves. It is empowering. That's why you see bumper stickers that say "like eating food? THANK A FARMER" as if they are some sort of league of super heroes. If you kiss their asses, they'll vote for you. Add to that anti-intellectualism. I think one of the reason people distrusted Clinton so much is that she looks and talks smart and wonkish, and the fact that Trump talks like a complete retard has significantly helped him in that election; a significant fraction of the electorate find that authentic and more relatable. Tell people that something is complicated, will take time and patience, and has no cheap, quick fix and they think that you are trying to screw them over. People distrusted Clinton because she is a the pinnacle of corruption in America. The whole Cambridge Analytica scandal just went past you didn't it? I know it hurts to admit that you and a great portion of USA has been manipulated by sophisticated propaganda techniques from Steve Bannon, testing and targeting messages towards you and people of your profile but at some point you just have to own up to it. For instance you wrote she is the pinnacle of corruption, yet you declined to say what pinnacle of corruption that would be. This is an opportunity for you to examine your beliefs and your sources of information and how you interact with them.
berserk swords previous post about how the whistleblower scandal is another pointless exercise by the dems and trump will emerge even stronger after this blows over pretty much shows hes one of the typical trump supporters so often referred to in this thread. everything is fake news to them if trump looks bad in it
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Clinton's corrupt image is proof that if you throw enough shit at someone for a decade and none of that shit sticks, they will still smell of shit.
(Some people have legitimate grievances with Clinton and her policies, I understand their position. For others is nothing but Benghazi, Uranium one and Pizzagate)
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On September 28 2019 18:33 Gorsameth wrote:
Clinton's corrupt image is proof that if you throw enough shit at someone for a decade and none of that shit sticks, they will still smell of shit.
(Some people have legitimate grievances with Clinton and her policies, I understand their position. For others is nothing but Benghazi, Uranium one and Pizzagate)
Well, when swiftboating worked, they stuck with that recipe for the next 2 decades. Why play fair when playing dirty wins you elections?
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Although Hunter Biden’s case is a textbook example of soft, socially accepted corruption (using your name and influence to get a very nice position with a great paycheck), there is not the slightest proof that he committed any kind of crime.
Meanwhile your dude committed an impeachable offense in one of the most spectacular corruption scandals affecting a sitting president in decades, but hey, you are not even gonna talk about that because tribalism.
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On September 28 2019 19:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:Although Hunter Biden’s case is a textbook example of soft, socially accepted corruption (using your name and influence to get a very nice position with a great paycheck), there is not the slightest proof that he committed any kind of crime. Meanwhile your dude committed an impeachable offense in one of the most spectacular corruption scandals affecting a sitting president in decades, but hey, you are not even gonna talk about that because tribalism.
I feel compelled to make the link between the "socially accepted corruption isn't a crime" and how Trump got to be where he is in the first place.
Part of Trump's fortune (as well as his kids livelihoods) is built on this socially acceptable corruption, had that corruption not been bipartisan and acceptable, we probably never get President Trump.
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On September 28 2019 19:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:Although Hunter Biden’s case is a textbook example of soft, socially accepted corruption (using your name and influence to get a very nice position with a great paycheck), there is not the slightest proof that he committed any kind of crime. Meanwhile your dude committed an impeachable offense in one of the most spectacular corruption scandals affecting a sitting president in decades, but hey, you are not even gonna talk about that because tribalism.
Bruh i’m not talking about Hunter, I’m talking about Joe.Joe is on camera bragging how he withheld a billion dollar loan until a Ukrainian prosecutor was fired.Keep up FFS.Here he is admitting it on camera.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY
The point is the mutual legal assistance treaty on criminal matters signed between the US and Ukraine May cover criminal acts like this...
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On September 28 2019 19:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2019 19:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:Although Hunter Biden’s case is a textbook example of soft, socially accepted corruption (using your name and influence to get a very nice position with a great paycheck), there is not the slightest proof that he committed any kind of crime. Meanwhile your dude committed an impeachable offense in one of the most spectacular corruption scandals affecting a sitting president in decades, but hey, you are not even gonna talk about that because tribalism. I feel compelled to make the link between the "socially accepted corruption isn't a crime" and how Trump got to be where he is in the first place. Part of Trump's fortune (as well as his kids livelihoods) is built on this socially acceptable corruption, had that corruption not been bipartisan and acceptable, we probably never get President Trump.
Actually, the real problem with Trump is not soft corruption, it’s real crime. His scandals, from the Trump university, decades if defrauding people working for him to this Ukrainian business are actual offenses.
I’m all for addressing the way companies hire influential names in their boards in the hope of obtaining future favours. It’s unacceptable, unethical and has to be addressed. I think Obama’s ban on lobbyists in his administration was a huge step in the right direction, and much more must be done.
But Nettles seem to think that this is the core of that Ukrainian scandals, while meanwhile we talk about a president leveraging hundreds of million of dollars in foreign aide and the foreign policy of the US with an extremely sensitive ally to gain dirt on a political opponent’s son.
I know this is what Fox News and Breitbart do all day but it’s becoming grotesque.
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On September 28 2019 19:57 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2019 19:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:Although Hunter Biden’s case is a textbook example of soft, socially accepted corruption (using your name and influence to get a very nice position with a great paycheck), there is not the slightest proof that he committed any kind of crime. Meanwhile your dude committed an impeachable offense in one of the most spectacular corruption scandals affecting a sitting president in decades, but hey, you are not even gonna talk about that because tribalism. Bruh i’m not talking about Hunter, I’m talking about Joe.Joe is on camera bragging how he withheld money until a Ukrainian prosecutor was fired.Keep up FFS.Here he is admitting it on camera. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY A country withholding aid because the receiving country is not doing enough to combat corruption is not abnormal.
Now if he did it to protect his son that's another matter but then you first need to prove that and a Ukrainian official has come forward saying the investigation wasn't active at the time, nor was Biden's son involved. So... gl with that.
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On September 28 2019 19:57 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2019 19:30 Biff The Understudy wrote:Although Hunter Biden’s case is a textbook example of soft, socially accepted corruption (using your name and influence to get a very nice position with a great paycheck), there is not the slightest proof that he committed any kind of crime. Meanwhile your dude committed an impeachable offense in one of the most spectacular corruption scandals affecting a sitting president in decades, but hey, you are not even gonna talk about that because tribalism. Bruh i’m not talking about Hunter, I’m talking about Joe.Joe is on camera bragging how he withheld a billion dollar loan until a Ukrainian prosecutor was fired.Keep up FFS.Here he is admitting it on camera. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CYThe point is the mutual legal assistance treaty on criminal matters signed between the US and Ukraine May cover criminal acts like this...
Do you have a better source than « Dangalagas youtube channel of country music and Trump totally pwning X and Y » to provide context of this video? Because there is nothing weird in what Biden is saying there if you remove the amateurish text that opens the video.
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EPT
