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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1794

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24754 Posts
September 11 2019 00:11 GMT
#35861
On September 11 2019 09:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 09:00 RenSC2 wrote:
On September 11 2019 08:53 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 08:19 NewSunshine wrote:
On September 11 2019 07:24 Mohdoo wrote:
On September 11 2019 01:27 farvacola wrote:
Yeah, Bolton is pretty much the worst of his kind, so anyone would likely be an improvement.


The mistake you and others are making is confining the list of people to people with foreign policy experience. It could totally just be some hack with zero experience.

Or someone with a vested interest in making sure no one qualified ever holds the job.

+ Show Spoiler +
cough+ Show Spoiler +
education+ Show Spoiler +
cough+ Show Spoiler +
EPA+ Show Spoiler +
cough


Where would Rick Perry fall in this? The guy ran for president on eliminating the DoE and after getting put in charge of it discovered what it did decided that wasn't a great idea. He's one of the longest tenured members of the administration.

He has quietly kept his head down and kept his name out of the news after the initial furor. He's certainly not competent at his actual job in the DoE, but he's still patriotic. If something goes wrong, he won't be able to fix it, but he can quietly keep things chugging along and I don't think he's going to purposely destroy the DoE now that he knows what it does.

He's just an empty suit. He probably never really deals with Trump and that seems to be the best way to stay in the Trump administration without getting fired.


I think "chugging along" may present more vulnerabilities than it sounds like. Namely with rules and regulations falling by the wayside we're almost guaranteed to find out there's a pile of improperly disposed of nuclear waste pilling up somewhere sooner or later.

Show nested quote +
The Department of Energy is not a regulatory agency; however it does self-regulate its own radioactive waste... DOE is currently revising its radioactive waste management regulations


www.energy.gov

I suspect "chugging along" means letting the people who work for him, career experts unlike him, run their respective shows. That's not preferable to a highly competent secretary, but it's a fair bit better than the picture you are painting.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
RenSC2
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1080 Posts
September 11 2019 00:15 GMT
#35862
On September 11 2019 09:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 09:00 RenSC2 wrote:
On September 11 2019 08:53 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 08:19 NewSunshine wrote:
On September 11 2019 07:24 Mohdoo wrote:
On September 11 2019 01:27 farvacola wrote:
Yeah, Bolton is pretty much the worst of his kind, so anyone would likely be an improvement.


The mistake you and others are making is confining the list of people to people with foreign policy experience. It could totally just be some hack with zero experience.

Or someone with a vested interest in making sure no one qualified ever holds the job.

+ Show Spoiler +
cough+ Show Spoiler +
education+ Show Spoiler +
cough+ Show Spoiler +
EPA+ Show Spoiler +
cough


Where would Rick Perry fall in this? The guy ran for president on eliminating the DoE and after getting put in charge of it discovered what it did decided that wasn't a great idea. He's one of the longest tenured members of the administration.

He has quietly kept his head down and kept his name out of the news after the initial furor. He's certainly not competent at his actual job in the DoE, but he's still patriotic. If something goes wrong, he won't be able to fix it, but he can quietly keep things chugging along and I don't think he's going to purposely destroy the DoE now that he knows what it does.

He's just an empty suit. He probably never really deals with Trump and that seems to be the best way to stay in the Trump administration without getting fired.


I think "chugging along" may present more vulnerabilities than it sounds like. Namely with rules and regulations falling by the wayside we're almost guaranteed to find out there's a pile of improperly disposed of nuclear waste pilling up somewhere sooner or later.

Show nested quote +
The Department of Energy is not a regulatory agency; however it does self-regulate its own radioactive waste... DOE is currently revising its radioactive waste management regulations


www.energy.gov

Probably not. Have there been any mass firings or quitting at the DoE? To my knowledge, the people at the DoE have continued as before. If the job was done before, then it’s probably being done now. Rick Perry can quietly ride out his time.

Now revisions to waste management regulations are scary and may result in nuclear waste piling up where it shouldn’t. Having said that, Hillary Clinton’s hand-picked next president can hire someone competent for the DoE and that piling waste can be properly handled again.
Playing better than standard requires deviation. This divergence usually results in sub-standard play.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23657 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-11 00:46:10
September 11 2019 00:16 GMT
#35863
On September 11 2019 09:11 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 09:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:00 RenSC2 wrote:
On September 11 2019 08:53 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 08:19 NewSunshine wrote:
On September 11 2019 07:24 Mohdoo wrote:
On September 11 2019 01:27 farvacola wrote:
Yeah, Bolton is pretty much the worst of his kind, so anyone would likely be an improvement.


The mistake you and others are making is confining the list of people to people with foreign policy experience. It could totally just be some hack with zero experience.

Or someone with a vested interest in making sure no one qualified ever holds the job.

+ Show Spoiler +
cough+ Show Spoiler +
education+ Show Spoiler +
cough+ Show Spoiler +
EPA+ Show Spoiler +
cough


Where would Rick Perry fall in this? The guy ran for president on eliminating the DoE and after getting put in charge of it discovered what it did decided that wasn't a great idea. He's one of the longest tenured members of the administration.

He has quietly kept his head down and kept his name out of the news after the initial furor. He's certainly not competent at his actual job in the DoE, but he's still patriotic. If something goes wrong, he won't be able to fix it, but he can quietly keep things chugging along and I don't think he's going to purposely destroy the DoE now that he knows what it does.

He's just an empty suit. He probably never really deals with Trump and that seems to be the best way to stay in the Trump administration without getting fired.


I think "chugging along" may present more vulnerabilities than it sounds like. Namely with rules and regulations falling by the wayside we're almost guaranteed to find out there's a pile of improperly disposed of nuclear waste pilling up somewhere sooner or later.

The Department of Energy is not a regulatory agency; however it does self-regulate its own radioactive waste... DOE is currently revising its radioactive waste management regulations


www.energy.gov

I suspect "chugging along" means letting the people who work for him, career experts unlike him, run their respective shows. That's not preferable to a highly competent secretary, but it's a fair bit better than the picture you are painting.


That would imply that the revisions to the regulations would be getting stricter, which would be the opposite of what's happening with environmental rules and regulations under the Trump administration.

I suppose it's possible, but I wouldn't imagine it probable.

On September 11 2019 09:15 RenSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 09:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:00 RenSC2 wrote:
On September 11 2019 08:53 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 08:19 NewSunshine wrote:
On September 11 2019 07:24 Mohdoo wrote:
On September 11 2019 01:27 farvacola wrote:
Yeah, Bolton is pretty much the worst of his kind, so anyone would likely be an improvement.


The mistake you and others are making is confining the list of people to people with foreign policy experience. It could totally just be some hack with zero experience.

Or someone with a vested interest in making sure no one qualified ever holds the job.

+ Show Spoiler +
cough+ Show Spoiler +
education+ Show Spoiler +
cough+ Show Spoiler +
EPA+ Show Spoiler +
cough


Where would Rick Perry fall in this? The guy ran for president on eliminating the DoE and after getting put in charge of it discovered what it did decided that wasn't a great idea. He's one of the longest tenured members of the administration.

He has quietly kept his head down and kept his name out of the news after the initial furor. He's certainly not competent at his actual job in the DoE, but he's still patriotic. If something goes wrong, he won't be able to fix it, but he can quietly keep things chugging along and I don't think he's going to purposely destroy the DoE now that he knows what it does.

He's just an empty suit. He probably never really deals with Trump and that seems to be the best way to stay in the Trump administration without getting fired.


I think "chugging along" may present more vulnerabilities than it sounds like. Namely with rules and regulations falling by the wayside we're almost guaranteed to find out there's a pile of improperly disposed of nuclear waste pilling up somewhere sooner or later.

The Department of Energy is not a regulatory agency; however it does self-regulate its own radioactive waste... DOE is currently revising its radioactive waste management regulations


www.energy.gov

Probably not. Have there been any mass firings or quitting at the DoE? To my knowledge, the people at the DoE have continued as before. If the job was done before, then it’s probably being done now. Rick Perry can quietly ride out his time.

Now revisions to waste management regulations are scary and may result in nuclear waste piling up where it shouldn’t. Having said that, Hillary Clinton’s hand-picked next president can hire someone competent for the DoE and that piling waste can be properly handled again.


I know you're joking, but the idea that things will be okay if we just go back to the Obama era (which is to the left of Biden/Clintons) and passing Republican policy (the ACA) is part of why I think we're in so much trouble.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24754 Posts
September 11 2019 00:21 GMT
#35864
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23657 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-11 00:32:49
September 11 2019 00:28 GMT
#35865
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.


Idaho begs to differ. We still don't have a place to permanently store nuclear waste btw.

Just a snippet of the nuclear waste issue in Idaho and the "abject failure" of the nations nuclear management efforts:

There is perhaps no better illustration of the abject failure of the nation’s nuclear waste management efforts than the accumulation of vast amounts of spent nuclear fuel in Idaho, a situation I continue to believe most Idahoans find unacceptable.

By one measure, Idaho currently hosts 308 metric tons of spent nuclear fuel from the Navy, foreign and domestic research reactors, commercial reactors and the debris from the 1979 Three Mile Island accident. This includes 900,000 gallons of particularly dangerous liquid waste that remains untreated and buried in 50-year old tanks. The waste is perched above one of the largest freshwater aquifers in the world.


www.idahopress.com
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24754 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-11 00:34:58
September 11 2019 00:32 GMT
#35866
On September 11 2019 09:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.


Idaho begs to differ. We still don't have a place to permanently store nuclear waste btw.

Can you elaborate on the first part (edit to your edit: reading now).

For the second, part, you don't seem to be using the term "nuclear waste"properly. The U.S. does not have a permanent repository for high level waste, i.e., spent nuclear fuel. There is a large amount of low level waste which is the only type of waste it makes sense you were referring to with your previous posts.

edit 2: Okay, I see what you are referring to. What is your concern, and how does it relate to Rick Perry being Secretary of Energy?
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23657 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-11 00:41:57
September 11 2019 00:34 GMT
#35867
On September 11 2019 09:32 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 09:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.


Idaho begs to differ. We still don't have a place to permanently store nuclear waste btw.

Can you elaborate on the first part (edit to your edit: reading now).

For the second, part, you don't seem to be using the term "nuclear waste"properly. The U.S. does not have a permanent repository for high level waste, i.e., spent nuclear fuel. There is a large amount of low level waste which is the only type of waste it makes sense you were referring to with your previous posts.


Which is why it's easier to just change high level waste to low level waste with a pen.

The Trump administration announced on Wednesday that it is moving forward with plans to reclassify toxic nuclear waste from Cold War weapons research, downgrading some of it from the highest level, in order to cut costs and quicken the disposal process.


www.newsweek.com

edit 2: Okay, I see what you are referring to. What is your concern, and how does it relate to Rick Perry being Secretary of Energy?


That "chugging along" isn't that great and rather than push back on something as absurd as simply reclassifying the waste to make disposal cheaper, Perry is "chugging along" and keeping his job.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24754 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-11 00:52:43
September 11 2019 00:51 GMT
#35868
On September 11 2019 09:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 09:32 micronesia wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.


Idaho begs to differ. We still don't have a place to permanently store nuclear waste btw.

Can you elaborate on the first part (edit to your edit: reading now).

For the second, part, you don't seem to be using the term "nuclear waste"properly. The U.S. does not have a permanent repository for high level waste, i.e., spent nuclear fuel. There is a large amount of low level waste which is the only type of waste it makes sense you were referring to with your previous posts.


Which is why it's easier to just change high level waste to low level wast with a pen.

Show nested quote +
The Trump administration announced on Wednesday that it is moving forward with plans to reclassify toxic nuclear waste from Cold War weapons research, downgrading some of it from the highest level, in order to cut costs and quicken the disposal process.


www.newsweek.com

Show nested quote +
edit 2: Okay, I see what you are referring to. What is your concern, and how does it relate to Rick Perry being Secretary of Energy?


That "chugging along" isn't that great and rather than push back on something as absurd as simply reclassifying the waste to make disposal cheaper, Perry is "chugging along" and keeping his job.

Okay so the two issues raised were a permanent repository, and reclassification of some high level waste. For the former, I'm not sure if Rick Perry being SECENG is really a significant factor. There are plenty of people to blame for that problem, and he isn't really one of them. I'd start with Harry Reid.

For the other, from the article you linked:

Currently, DOE treats most of its radioactive waste as "high-level" (HLW) because of how it was made rather than classifying it by its characteristics, such as radioactivity. HLW must be buried deep underground when it is disposed of.

DOE said in a release that this "one size fits all" approach to waste management has caused delays to permanent disposal, leaving toxic waste stored in DOE facilities, which causes health risks to workers and costs the taxpayers billions of unnecessary dollars.

Now, DOE will seek to lower the classification of waste of lesser radioactivity, meaning it can be disposed of with greater ease because it does not need to be stored deep below ground—and both sooner and at a lower cost.
Earlier I spoke very generally when I said high level waste is "spent nuclear fuel." In actuality, the country has some real problems with waste classification not making sense. In general, disposal criteria for waste should be determined by the hazards it poses and its characteristics, not the circumstances of its generation (with some exceptions). Just because the Department of Energy intends to save money on disposal of certain waste by reclassifying some high level waste that meets specific criteria as low level waste does not necessarily mean that the new controls will be insufficient or unwarranted. The goal is a move more towards technically appropriate requirements for disposal criteria rather than blanket policies which are overly conservative in many cases. The reason why these seemingly inappropriately conservative requirements weren't fixed earlier was either because there wasn't yet the financial incentive to go fix it, or fear and superstition was too rampant to make it worth trying.

I think there are actually a few good examples (albeit relatively small) of what you are trying to demonstrate, but I don't think you are going to find them.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23657 Posts
September 11 2019 01:00 GMT
#35869
On September 11 2019 09:51 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 09:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:32 micronesia wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.


Idaho begs to differ. We still don't have a place to permanently store nuclear waste btw.

Can you elaborate on the first part (edit to your edit: reading now).

For the second, part, you don't seem to be using the term "nuclear waste"properly. The U.S. does not have a permanent repository for high level waste, i.e., spent nuclear fuel. There is a large amount of low level waste which is the only type of waste it makes sense you were referring to with your previous posts.


Which is why it's easier to just change high level waste to low level wast with a pen.

The Trump administration announced on Wednesday that it is moving forward with plans to reclassify toxic nuclear waste from Cold War weapons research, downgrading some of it from the highest level, in order to cut costs and quicken the disposal process.


www.newsweek.com

edit 2: Okay, I see what you are referring to. What is your concern, and how does it relate to Rick Perry being Secretary of Energy?


That "chugging along" isn't that great and rather than push back on something as absurd as simply reclassifying the waste to make disposal cheaper, Perry is "chugging along" and keeping his job.

Okay so the two issues raised were a permanent repository, and reclassification of some high level waste. For the former, I'm not sure if Rick Perry being SECENG is really a significant factor. There are plenty of people to blame for that problem, and he isn't really one of them. I'd start with Harry Reid.

For the other, from the article you linked:

Show nested quote +
Currently, DOE treats most of its radioactive waste as "high-level" (HLW) because of how it was made rather than classifying it by its characteristics, such as radioactivity. HLW must be buried deep underground when it is disposed of.

DOE said in a release that this "one size fits all" approach to waste management has caused delays to permanent disposal, leaving toxic waste stored in DOE facilities, which causes health risks to workers and costs the taxpayers billions of unnecessary dollars.

Now, DOE will seek to lower the classification of waste of lesser radioactivity, meaning it can be disposed of with greater ease because it does not need to be stored deep below ground—and both sooner and at a lower cost.
Earlier I spoke very generally when I said high level waste is "spent nuclear fuel." In actuality, the country has some real problems with waste classification not making sense. In general, disposal criteria for waste should be determined by the hazards it poses and its characteristics, not the circumstances of its generation (with some exceptions). Just because the Department of Energy intends to save money on disposal of certain waste by reclassifying some high level waste that meets specific criteria as low level waste does not necessarily mean that the new controls will be insufficient or unwarranted. The goal is a move more towards technically appropriate requirements for disposal criteria than blanket policies which are overly conservative in many cases. The reason why these seemingly inappropriately conservative requirements weren't fixed earlier was either because there wasn't yet the financial incentive to go fix it, or fear and superstition was too rampant to make it worth trying.

I think there are actually a few good examples (albeit relatively small) of what you are trying to demonstrate, but I don't think you are going to find them.


We've got a vat of nuclear waste in old tanks sitting above one of the biggest freshwater aquifers in the world, I don't think our old disposal system was too conservative.

I'll just say I don't share the confidence and faith you do the DOE with or without Perry (though obviously less with Perry) under the Trump administration is going to responsibly loosen these regulations any more than the ones on letting mercury into waterways or the other regulations they are rolling back.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
RenSC2
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1080 Posts
September 11 2019 01:02 GMT
#35870
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.

To clarify one thing, I do think the EPA has gone to shit and with it, environmental protections. I think the DoE is running approximately how it always has, it just isn't currently capable of being run better on the areas where it could use improvement.

The EPA is run by a former lawyer for the coal industry. I believe him to be malicious.

The DoE is run by a doofus. I believe him to be incompetent.

I greatly prefer incompetence to maliciousness.

I also thought we were on the Hillary Clinton is endorsing Elisabeth Warren bandwagon. Is she back to Biden now? It's almost like you (GH) posted that article to smear Warren with Clinton's name. Is Warren getting a little too close to Sanders in the polls and so you're having to attack?

I would bet that Clinton will endorse whoever wins the democratic nomination (including Sanders), even if that means changing endorsements at the end of the process. However, she probably won't endorse anyone until someone is a clear favorite after some primaries.
Playing better than standard requires deviation. This divergence usually results in sub-standard play.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24754 Posts
September 11 2019 01:07 GMT
#35871
On September 11 2019 10:02 RenSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.

To clarify one thing, I do think the EPA has gone to shit and with it, environmental protections. I think the DoE is running approximately how it always has, it just isn't currently capable of being run better on the areas where it could use improvement.

Agree. I was only referring to DOE nuclear waste rules (and the topic of NRC nuclear waste rules has not come up).

On September 11 2019 10:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 09:51 micronesia wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:32 micronesia wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.


Idaho begs to differ. We still don't have a place to permanently store nuclear waste btw.

Can you elaborate on the first part (edit to your edit: reading now).

For the second, part, you don't seem to be using the term "nuclear waste"properly. The U.S. does not have a permanent repository for high level waste, i.e., spent nuclear fuel. There is a large amount of low level waste which is the only type of waste it makes sense you were referring to with your previous posts.


Which is why it's easier to just change high level waste to low level wast with a pen.

The Trump administration announced on Wednesday that it is moving forward with plans to reclassify toxic nuclear waste from Cold War weapons research, downgrading some of it from the highest level, in order to cut costs and quicken the disposal process.


www.newsweek.com

edit 2: Okay, I see what you are referring to. What is your concern, and how does it relate to Rick Perry being Secretary of Energy?


That "chugging along" isn't that great and rather than push back on something as absurd as simply reclassifying the waste to make disposal cheaper, Perry is "chugging along" and keeping his job.

Okay so the two issues raised were a permanent repository, and reclassification of some high level waste. For the former, I'm not sure if Rick Perry being SECENG is really a significant factor. There are plenty of people to blame for that problem, and he isn't really one of them. I'd start with Harry Reid.

For the other, from the article you linked:

Currently, DOE treats most of its radioactive waste as "high-level" (HLW) because of how it was made rather than classifying it by its characteristics, such as radioactivity. HLW must be buried deep underground when it is disposed of.

DOE said in a release that this "one size fits all" approach to waste management has caused delays to permanent disposal, leaving toxic waste stored in DOE facilities, which causes health risks to workers and costs the taxpayers billions of unnecessary dollars.

Now, DOE will seek to lower the classification of waste of lesser radioactivity, meaning it can be disposed of with greater ease because it does not need to be stored deep below ground—and both sooner and at a lower cost.
Earlier I spoke very generally when I said high level waste is "spent nuclear fuel." In actuality, the country has some real problems with waste classification not making sense. In general, disposal criteria for waste should be determined by the hazards it poses and its characteristics, not the circumstances of its generation (with some exceptions). Just because the Department of Energy intends to save money on disposal of certain waste by reclassifying some high level waste that meets specific criteria as low level waste does not necessarily mean that the new controls will be insufficient or unwarranted. The goal is a move more towards technically appropriate requirements for disposal criteria than blanket policies which are overly conservative in many cases. The reason why these seemingly inappropriately conservative requirements weren't fixed earlier was either because there wasn't yet the financial incentive to go fix it, or fear and superstition was too rampant to make it worth trying.

I think there are actually a few good examples (albeit relatively small) of what you are trying to demonstrate, but I don't think you are going to find them.


We've got a vat of nuclear waste in old tanks sitting above one of the biggest freshwater aquifers in the world, I don't think our old disposal system was too conservative.

I'll just say I don't share the confidence and faith you do the DOE with or without Perry (though obviously less with Perry) under the Trump administration is going to responsibly loosen these regulations any more than the ones on letting mercury into waterways or the other regulations they are rolling back.

You seem to be reversing your position. You seemed to criticize the DOE for working to expedite the disposal of the nuclear waste in old tanks, then you blamed the DOE for not expediting the disposal of nuclear waste in old tanks.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23657 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-11 01:26:23
September 11 2019 01:20 GMT
#35872
On September 11 2019 10:02 RenSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.

To clarify one thing, I do think the EPA has gone to shit and with it, environmental protections. I think the DoE is running approximately how it always has, it just isn't currently capable of being run better on the areas where it could use improvement.

The EPA is run by a former lawyer for the coal industry. I believe him to be malicious.

The DoE is run by a doofus. I believe him to be incompetent.

I greatly prefer incompetence to maliciousness.

I also thought we were on the Hillary Clinton is endorsing Elisabeth Warren bandwagon. Is she back to Biden now? It's almost like you (GH) posted that article to smear Warren with Clinton's name. Is Warren getting a little too close to Sanders in the polls and so you're having to attack?

I would bet that Clinton will endorse whoever wins the democratic nomination (including Sanders), even if that means changing endorsements at the end of the process. However, she probably won't endorse anyone until someone is a clear favorite after some primaries.


The office of O&G is under the DoE too and I don't think you really think Perry isn't a malicious actor with regard to oil and gas?

No, you misunderstand. I'm saying Clinton (both of them) and Biden were and are to the right of Obama. I still think Clinton's preference in the 3-way race is Warren and we'll see more signs of that until ultimately she says so outright or Biden manages to clinch.

There's been more stories coming out about how establishment Democrats are getting comfortable with Warren, how her campaign finance pledge is increasingly hazy, and she's basically on the trajectory Obama took from when he was the anti-establishment/big bank/corporate influence candidate to being the "looking forward, bail out, 0-accountability" president, where his major legislative accomplishment was passing a Republican policy.


On September 11 2019 10:07 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 10:02 RenSC2 wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.

To clarify one thing, I do think the EPA has gone to shit and with it, environmental protections. I think the DoE is running approximately how it always has, it just isn't currently capable of being run better on the areas where it could use improvement.

Agree. I was only referring to DOE nuclear waste rules (and the topic of NRC nuclear waste rules has not come up).

Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 10:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:51 micronesia wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:32 micronesia wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.


Idaho begs to differ. We still don't have a place to permanently store nuclear waste btw.

Can you elaborate on the first part (edit to your edit: reading now).

For the second, part, you don't seem to be using the term "nuclear waste"properly. The U.S. does not have a permanent repository for high level waste, i.e., spent nuclear fuel. There is a large amount of low level waste which is the only type of waste it makes sense you were referring to with your previous posts.


Which is why it's easier to just change high level waste to low level wast with a pen.

The Trump administration announced on Wednesday that it is moving forward with plans to reclassify toxic nuclear waste from Cold War weapons research, downgrading some of it from the highest level, in order to cut costs and quicken the disposal process.


www.newsweek.com

edit 2: Okay, I see what you are referring to. What is your concern, and how does it relate to Rick Perry being Secretary of Energy?


That "chugging along" isn't that great and rather than push back on something as absurd as simply reclassifying the waste to make disposal cheaper, Perry is "chugging along" and keeping his job.

Okay so the two issues raised were a permanent repository, and reclassification of some high level waste. For the former, I'm not sure if Rick Perry being SECENG is really a significant factor. There are plenty of people to blame for that problem, and he isn't really one of them. I'd start with Harry Reid.

For the other, from the article you linked:

Currently, DOE treats most of its radioactive waste as "high-level" (HLW) because of how it was made rather than classifying it by its characteristics, such as radioactivity. HLW must be buried deep underground when it is disposed of.

DOE said in a release that this "one size fits all" approach to waste management has caused delays to permanent disposal, leaving toxic waste stored in DOE facilities, which causes health risks to workers and costs the taxpayers billions of unnecessary dollars.

Now, DOE will seek to lower the classification of waste of lesser radioactivity, meaning it can be disposed of with greater ease because it does not need to be stored deep below ground—and both sooner and at a lower cost.
Earlier I spoke very generally when I said high level waste is "spent nuclear fuel." In actuality, the country has some real problems with waste classification not making sense. In general, disposal criteria for waste should be determined by the hazards it poses and its characteristics, not the circumstances of its generation (with some exceptions). Just because the Department of Energy intends to save money on disposal of certain waste by reclassifying some high level waste that meets specific criteria as low level waste does not necessarily mean that the new controls will be insufficient or unwarranted. The goal is a move more towards technically appropriate requirements for disposal criteria than blanket policies which are overly conservative in many cases. The reason why these seemingly inappropriately conservative requirements weren't fixed earlier was either because there wasn't yet the financial incentive to go fix it, or fear and superstition was too rampant to make it worth trying.

I think there are actually a few good examples (albeit relatively small) of what you are trying to demonstrate, but I don't think you are going to find them.


We've got a vat of nuclear waste in old tanks sitting above one of the biggest freshwater aquifers in the world, I don't think our old disposal system was too conservative.

I'll just say I don't share the confidence and faith you do the DOE with or without Perry (though obviously less with Perry) under the Trump administration is going to responsibly loosen these regulations any more than the ones on letting mercury into waterways or the other regulations they are rolling back.

You seem to be reversing your position. You seemed to criticize the DOE for working to expedite the disposal of the nuclear waste in old tanks, then you blamed the DOE for not expediting the disposal of nuclear waste in old tanks.


Not reversing. I'm doing both. I'm criticizing them for long standing bad practices and not sharing your confidence that relaxing them is the solution we needed.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24754 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-11 01:30:56
September 11 2019 01:30 GMT
#35873
On September 11 2019 10:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 10:07 micronesia wrote:
On September 11 2019 10:02 RenSC2 wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.

To clarify one thing, I do think the EPA has gone to shit and with it, environmental protections. I think the DoE is running approximately how it always has, it just isn't currently capable of being run better on the areas where it could use improvement.

Agree. I was only referring to DOE nuclear waste rules (and the topic of NRC nuclear waste rules has not come up).

On September 11 2019 10:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:51 micronesia wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:32 micronesia wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.


Idaho begs to differ. We still don't have a place to permanently store nuclear waste btw.

Can you elaborate on the first part (edit to your edit: reading now).

For the second, part, you don't seem to be using the term "nuclear waste"properly. The U.S. does not have a permanent repository for high level waste, i.e., spent nuclear fuel. There is a large amount of low level waste which is the only type of waste it makes sense you were referring to with your previous posts.


Which is why it's easier to just change high level waste to low level wast with a pen.

The Trump administration announced on Wednesday that it is moving forward with plans to reclassify toxic nuclear waste from Cold War weapons research, downgrading some of it from the highest level, in order to cut costs and quicken the disposal process.


www.newsweek.com

edit 2: Okay, I see what you are referring to. What is your concern, and how does it relate to Rick Perry being Secretary of Energy?


That "chugging along" isn't that great and rather than push back on something as absurd as simply reclassifying the waste to make disposal cheaper, Perry is "chugging along" and keeping his job.

Okay so the two issues raised were a permanent repository, and reclassification of some high level waste. For the former, I'm not sure if Rick Perry being SECENG is really a significant factor. There are plenty of people to blame for that problem, and he isn't really one of them. I'd start with Harry Reid.

For the other, from the article you linked:

Currently, DOE treats most of its radioactive waste as "high-level" (HLW) because of how it was made rather than classifying it by its characteristics, such as radioactivity. HLW must be buried deep underground when it is disposed of.

DOE said in a release that this "one size fits all" approach to waste management has caused delays to permanent disposal, leaving toxic waste stored in DOE facilities, which causes health risks to workers and costs the taxpayers billions of unnecessary dollars.

Now, DOE will seek to lower the classification of waste of lesser radioactivity, meaning it can be disposed of with greater ease because it does not need to be stored deep below ground—and both sooner and at a lower cost.
Earlier I spoke very generally when I said high level waste is "spent nuclear fuel." In actuality, the country has some real problems with waste classification not making sense. In general, disposal criteria for waste should be determined by the hazards it poses and its characteristics, not the circumstances of its generation (with some exceptions). Just because the Department of Energy intends to save money on disposal of certain waste by reclassifying some high level waste that meets specific criteria as low level waste does not necessarily mean that the new controls will be insufficient or unwarranted. The goal is a move more towards technically appropriate requirements for disposal criteria than blanket policies which are overly conservative in many cases. The reason why these seemingly inappropriately conservative requirements weren't fixed earlier was either because there wasn't yet the financial incentive to go fix it, or fear and superstition was too rampant to make it worth trying.

I think there are actually a few good examples (albeit relatively small) of what you are trying to demonstrate, but I don't think you are going to find them.


We've got a vat of nuclear waste in old tanks sitting above one of the biggest freshwater aquifers in the world, I don't think our old disposal system was too conservative.

I'll just say I don't share the confidence and faith you do the DOE with or without Perry (though obviously less with Perry) under the Trump administration is going to responsibly loosen these regulations any more than the ones on letting mercury into waterways or the other regulations they are rolling back.

You seem to be reversing your position. You seemed to criticize the DOE for working to expedite the disposal of the nuclear waste in old tanks, then you blamed the DOE for not expediting the disposal of nuclear waste in old tanks.


Not reversing. I'm doing both. I'm criticizing them for long standing bad practices and not sharing your confidence that relaxing them is the solution we needed.

However, you did not respond to my point, and the point made in the article you referenced, that the particular relaxation in question seems warranted and experts generally prefer the modern approach. The real issue is that the current DOE and others have inherited some problems from a long time ago, and there's a lot of blame to go around on that front, but it doesn't seem support your thesis.

The problems you are pointing to are kind of linked. If you are overly conservative in one area (disposal requirements for a particular waste), then economics will dictate you need to take more risk in another area (interim storage). You can't have it both ways here without looking simply like a malcontent. That's not to say the government is blameless here... the system has been kind of screwed up for a long time, but the article you linked to about reclassification is actually one of the few recent attempts to try and fix how screwed up it is. If you think the current administration is mismanaging this effort, then you are free to read the proposed new rules and explain what is wrong with them.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-11 01:38:27
September 11 2019 01:36 GMT
#35874
There's currently a special election going on in a North Carolina district Trump won by 12 points in 2016. It's a dead tie right now with around 1000 votes between the Democrat, Dan McCready, and the Republican, Dan Bishop. This was the district where electoral fraud (ballot fraud specifically) was found to have occurred in the 2018 midterms and several people were charged.

Right now it's quite close for who will win, but given what happened in 2018 after a bunch of special elections looked like this one, I would think the Republicans will be concerned even if they win. This was a formerly safe district and at best they might barely squeak by with a win. This is a district the Republicans have won since the 1960s.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23657 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-11 03:25:01
September 11 2019 01:39 GMT
#35875
On September 11 2019 10:30 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 10:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 10:07 micronesia wrote:
On September 11 2019 10:02 RenSC2 wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.

To clarify one thing, I do think the EPA has gone to shit and with it, environmental protections. I think the DoE is running approximately how it always has, it just isn't currently capable of being run better on the areas where it could use improvement.

Agree. I was only referring to DOE nuclear waste rules (and the topic of NRC nuclear waste rules has not come up).

On September 11 2019 10:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:51 micronesia wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:34 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:32 micronesia wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On September 11 2019 09:21 micronesia wrote:
To echo RenSC2, there haven't really been drastic shifts as far as environmental protection is concerned. Normally, small nuclear waste issues become huge PR nightmares before they can become big problems.


Idaho begs to differ. We still don't have a place to permanently store nuclear waste btw.

Can you elaborate on the first part (edit to your edit: reading now).

For the second, part, you don't seem to be using the term "nuclear waste"properly. The U.S. does not have a permanent repository for high level waste, i.e., spent nuclear fuel. There is a large amount of low level waste which is the only type of waste it makes sense you were referring to with your previous posts.


Which is why it's easier to just change high level waste to low level wast with a pen.

The Trump administration announced on Wednesday that it is moving forward with plans to reclassify toxic nuclear waste from Cold War weapons research, downgrading some of it from the highest level, in order to cut costs and quicken the disposal process.


www.newsweek.com

edit 2: Okay, I see what you are referring to. What is your concern, and how does it relate to Rick Perry being Secretary of Energy?


That "chugging along" isn't that great and rather than push back on something as absurd as simply reclassifying the waste to make disposal cheaper, Perry is "chugging along" and keeping his job.

Okay so the two issues raised were a permanent repository, and reclassification of some high level waste. For the former, I'm not sure if Rick Perry being SECENG is really a significant factor. There are plenty of people to blame for that problem, and he isn't really one of them. I'd start with Harry Reid.

For the other, from the article you linked:

Currently, DOE treats most of its radioactive waste as "high-level" (HLW) because of how it was made rather than classifying it by its characteristics, such as radioactivity. HLW must be buried deep underground when it is disposed of.

DOE said in a release that this "one size fits all" approach to waste management has caused delays to permanent disposal, leaving toxic waste stored in DOE facilities, which causes health risks to workers and costs the taxpayers billions of unnecessary dollars.

Now, DOE will seek to lower the classification of waste of lesser radioactivity, meaning it can be disposed of with greater ease because it does not need to be stored deep below ground—and both sooner and at a lower cost.
Earlier I spoke very generally when I said high level waste is "spent nuclear fuel." In actuality, the country has some real problems with waste classification not making sense. In general, disposal criteria for waste should be determined by the hazards it poses and its characteristics, not the circumstances of its generation (with some exceptions). Just because the Department of Energy intends to save money on disposal of certain waste by reclassifying some high level waste that meets specific criteria as low level waste does not necessarily mean that the new controls will be insufficient or unwarranted. The goal is a move more towards technically appropriate requirements for disposal criteria than blanket policies which are overly conservative in many cases. The reason why these seemingly inappropriately conservative requirements weren't fixed earlier was either because there wasn't yet the financial incentive to go fix it, or fear and superstition was too rampant to make it worth trying.

I think there are actually a few good examples (albeit relatively small) of what you are trying to demonstrate, but I don't think you are going to find them.


We've got a vat of nuclear waste in old tanks sitting above one of the biggest freshwater aquifers in the world, I don't think our old disposal system was too conservative.

I'll just say I don't share the confidence and faith you do the DOE with or without Perry (though obviously less with Perry) under the Trump administration is going to responsibly loosen these regulations any more than the ones on letting mercury into waterways or the other regulations they are rolling back.

You seem to be reversing your position. You seemed to criticize the DOE for working to expedite the disposal of the nuclear waste in old tanks, then you blamed the DOE for not expediting the disposal of nuclear waste in old tanks.


Not reversing. I'm doing both. I'm criticizing them for long standing bad practices and not sharing your confidence that relaxing them is the solution we needed.

However, you did not respond to my point, and the point made in the article you referenced, that the particular relaxation in question seems warranted and experts generally prefer the modern approach. The real issue is that the current DOE and others have inherited some problems from a long time ago, and there's a lot of blame to go around on that front, but it doesn't seem support your thesis.

The problems you are pointing to are kind of linked. If you are overly conservative in one area (disposal requirements for a particular waste), then economics will dictate you need to take more risk in another area (interim storage). You can't have it both ways here without looking simply like a malcontent. That's not to say the government is blameless here... the system has been kind of screwed up for a long time, but the article you linked to about reclassification is actually one of the few recent attempts to try and fix how screwed up it is. If you think the current administration is mismanaging this effort, then you are free to read the proposed new rules and explain what is wrong with them.


It reads to me like typical conservative talking points about how relaxing regulation will remove undue economic burdens which are the motives for the poor behavior. Even where this is arguably the case, it's always consumers and residents that suffer the externalities of the rollbacks, which is why I mentioned the mercury in the water supply example.

I'd agree we need an overhaul/update in our nuclear waste management plans, I don't share the same confidence in Trump's and Perry's leadership that you and Ren do to not make things worse. If that makes me a malcontent I'll wear it proudly I suppose.

EDIT: I don't believe Perry/the investment banker under him/Trump administration (or that it's adequate) when they say.

"DOE is going to analyze each waste stream and manage it in accordance with Nuclear Regulatory Commission standards, with the goal of getting the lower-level waste out of these states without sacrificing public safety."

But you're right that they are saying it.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24754 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-11 01:47:09
September 11 2019 01:46 GMT
#35876
I think this is an example of how much damage is being done by other portions of the executive branch. When a department actually tries to do something positive, it gets treated like the EPA rolling back much needed protections by people who don't understand the issue, i.e., most people.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4908 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-11 04:09:37
September 11 2019 01:48 GMT
#35877
On September 11 2019 10:36 Ben... wrote:
There's currently a special election going on in a North Carolina district Trump won by 12 points in 2016. It's a dead tie right now with around 1000 votes between the Democrat, Dan McCready, and the Republican, Dan Bishop. This was the district where electoral fraud (ballot fraud specifically) was found to have occurred in the 2018 midterms and several people were charged.

Right now it's quite close for who will win, but given what happened in 2018 after a bunch of special elections looked like this one, I would think the Republicans will be concerned even if they win. This was a formerly safe district and at best they might barely squeak by with a win. This is a district the Republicans have won since the 1960s.


Also tonight in another NC district where Trump won by 24%, the GOP candidate has won by 24%, with the margin continuing to increase. The district you mention is a little odd, with all the money spent, the fact that McCready is no longer unknown, and with the fallout of the event in 2018. It's following the usual trend at this point, rural areas moving more GOP, suburban moving Democrat.

Also interesting to note that, as in 2018, Trump stays relatively popular in these districts Democrats flipped or almost flipped. Lots of Trump approves voting for (relatively) moderate House Democrats. If they do end up losing in NC-9, they prob won't contest it again. Also, still a trend of early and absentee voters being Democrat heavy, and election day voters being more GOP favored.

If Bishop wins tonight, he will most likely be safe in 2020. And I will add my usual reminder that these results should not be taken as a sign of presidential voting.

edit: however, it is interesting to think about how the much further left Warren or Sanders would run in these districts. You have to assume it'd be worse than their House candidates by far, and much worse than Trump.



+ Show Spoiler +








"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
September 11 2019 01:54 GMT
#35878
On September 11 2019 10:48 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2019 10:36 Ben... wrote:
There's currently a special election going on in a North Carolina district Trump won by 12 points in 2016. It's a dead tie right now with around 1000 votes between the Democrat, Dan McCready, and the Republican, Dan Bishop. This was the district where electoral fraud (ballot fraud specifically) was found to have occurred in the 2018 midterms and several people were charged.

Right now it's quite close for who will win, but given what happened in 2018 after a bunch of special elections looked like this one, I would think the Republicans will be concerned even if they win. This was a formerly safe district and at best they might barely squeak by with a win. This is a district the Republicans have won since the 1960s.


Also tonight in another NC district where Trump won by 22%, the GOP candidate has won by 24%, with the margin continuing to increase. The district you mention is a little odd, with all the money spent, the fact that McCready is no longer unknown, and with the fallout of the event in 2018. It's following the usual trend at this point, rural areas moving more GOP, suburban moving Democrat.

Also interesting to note that, as in 2018, Trump stays relatively popular in these districts Democrats flipped or almost flipped. Lots of Trump approves voting for (relatively) moderate House Democrats. If they do end up losing in NC-12, they prob won't contest it again. Also, still a trend of early and absentee voters being Democrat heavy, and election day voters being more GOP favored.

If Bishop wins tonight, he will most likely be safe in 2020. And I will add my usual reminder that these results should not be taken as a sign of presidential voting.
Fair enough. I do agree that in 2020 things will probably be completely different than any of these special elections or the even the midterms. On both sides I am sure participation will be up massively from 2016.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
September 11 2019 02:10 GMT
#35879
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
September 11 2019 15:07 GMT
#35880
--- Nuked ---
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