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The length of which the administration goes to keep Trump's delusions of grandeur intact... So now the commerce secretary threatened the NOAA with losing their jobs if they didn't 'fix' their contradiction of Trump's Alabama warning for the hurricane. This whole saga is totally insane.
Wilbur Ross, the US secretary of commerce, threatened to fire top employees at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration after the agency’s Birmingham, Alabama office contradicted Donald Trump's tweet claiming that Hurricane Dorian would likely hit Alabama, according to a report from The New York Times.
Mr Ross's threat led to the release of an unsigned letter from NOAA disavowing not only the Birmingham tweet, but the organisation's own knowledge of the storm, in favour of the president's false claim.
The Alabama saga began Sunday, September 1, when Mr Trump warned Alabama that they would "most likely be hit" by Hurricane Dorian, along with other states actually in the incoming storm's path. About an hour later, Birmingham's NOAA office tweeted "Alabama will NOT see any impacts from #Dorian," emphasising that it the storm would remain too far east to affect the state. This was correct.
A few days later, as the storm actually affected American coastal states, the president presented a map to reporters on which someone had drawn a circle indicating that Alabama would be hit. It was still not hit.
According to three people who spoke with the Times, Mr Ross threatened high level employees on Friday, two days after the president displayed the altered hurricane map, which the president has denied defacing himself.
Mr Ross reportedly called Neil Jacobs, the acting administrator of NOAA, and told him to "fix" the agency's contradiction with the president, which was, of course, the reality of the weather. Mr Ross was on vacation in Greece at the time.
When Dr Jacobs objected, he was told that the staff appointed by the administration at NOAA, or the political staff, would be fired if a vindication of the president's lie was not made.
source
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That really is a sign that a psychotic tyranny is upon us. Things in America now are only true if Trump says they are true.
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On September 10 2019 16:53 Jockmcplop wrote:
That really is a sign that a psychotic tyranny is upon us. Things in America now are only true if Trump says they are true.
Seems like someone totally prepared to accept election results that say he lost. Though the way Dems seem to be running he might not even have to.
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Isn't it illegal to fuck with the meteorological folks because of how important weather data is to minor things like the entire agricultural industry?
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i mean, to say the least. he was lying about the path of a then cat 5 hurricane. forget agriculture, people’s lives are on the line. but we already knew he doesn’t care about that, so to some end this too is just not new.
what does kind of burn me this time is that a whole production crew got in on the fun this time. people set up lighting. cameras. recorded this in, was it the oval? it’s not just Trump this time. and over this nonsense.
and then now there’s some kind of coordinated inter agency cover up (even if it is just press releases, i don’t mean to make more of this than it is,) for it? like what? because he was mistaken about the path of a hurricane. the mundanity of it all leading to all this.
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The cult of trump baffles me to be honest. At least with facism and Soviets and the like, there appears to be an actual idealogy to which senior officials will willingly distort the truth for, but why would the commerce secretary feel the need to defend Trump, who appeared to use a marker pen to draw a circle to a map to make his false statement "correct"? Anybody can see that's not how probability circle work anyways. How much money do you need to be promised before you act this way? Threatening scientists is just abuse of power, pure and simple.
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I know that this is a played-out meme, but this is really 1984. The attempt to completely dislodge truth from reality, and make it only based on what the leader says is true.
It might also be an attrition or distraction tactic. Let people spend all of their energy fighting something as obviously stupid as that, so they do not notice the actually bad things happening, or are too exhausted to fight them.
Note, for example, that this thread is once again only talking about a stupid but ultimately inconsequential thing Trump said or did.
We are not talking about, for example, the still existing and growing concentration camps. Or about the devastating effects of ignoring climate change (Which usually happens with natural disasters like hurricanes. Or about the utter greedy nepotism that Trump still uses to profit off of the US government. Or about any of the myriad other really bad thing that the Trump regime is currently doing. No, we talk about the silly stupid thing Trump said and did, because it is fun to make fun of that and laugh at how idiotic the guy is. Meanwhile, we are ignoring the actually devastating nefariousness that is going on.
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On September 10 2019 22:05 Simberto wrote:
I know that this is a played-out meme, but this is really 1984. The attempt to completely dislodge truth from reality, and make it only based on what the leader says is true.
It might also be an attrition or distraction tactic. Let people spend all of their energy fighting something as obviously stupid as that, so they do not notice the actually bad things happening, or are too exhausted to fight them.
Note, for example, that this thread is once again only talking about a stupid but ultimately inconsequential thing Trump said or did.
We are not talking about, for example, the still existing and growing concentration camps. Or about the devastating effects of ignoring climate change (Which usually happens with natural disasters like hurricanes. Or about the utter greedy nepotism that Trump still uses to profit off of the US government. Or about any of the myriad other really bad thing that the Trump regime is currently doing. No, we talk about the silly stupid thing Trump said and did, because it is fun to make fun of that and laugh at how idiotic the guy is. Meanwhile, we are ignoring the actually devastating nefariousness that is going on.
The question is mainly if it'll amount to something. When is Trump and his cronies trampling on convention and rules going to break the camel's back, and what can even be done about it? Trump is obviously not going to get impeached for drawing on the map with a sharpie. So how do you hold someone like that accountable for anything?
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On September 10 2019 22:10 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2019 22:05 Simberto wrote:
I know that this is a played-out meme, but this is really 1984. The attempt to completely dislodge truth from reality, and make it only based on what the leader says is true.
It might also be an attrition or distraction tactic. Let people spend all of their energy fighting something as obviously stupid as that, so they do not notice the actually bad things happening, or are too exhausted to fight them.
Note, for example, that this thread is once again only talking about a stupid but ultimately inconsequential thing Trump said or did.
We are not talking about, for example, the still existing and growing concentration camps. Or about the devastating effects of ignoring climate change (Which usually happens with natural disasters like hurricanes. Or about the utter greedy nepotism that Trump still uses to profit off of the US government. Or about any of the myriad other really bad thing that the Trump regime is currently doing. No, we talk about the silly stupid thing Trump said and did, because it is fun to make fun of that and laugh at how idiotic the guy is. Meanwhile, we are ignoring the actually devastating nefariousness that is going on. The question is mainly if it'll amount to something. When is Trump and his cronies trampling on convention and rules going to break the camel's back, and what can even be done about it? Trump is obviously not going to get impeached for drawing on the map with a sharpie. So how do you hold someone like that accountable for anything?
Mass direct action on the scale of the opposition to Vietnam, probably bigger and more disruptive.
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I have no idea. It was obvious from the start how bad of a pick Trump was gonna be as a president. Yet he was still elected. And as long as enough americans don't care, it really doesn't seem to matter. He could dance naked on the White House lawn every day, as long as a majority of those americans whose vote actually matters in their weird election system doesn't care, it doesn't matter.
I think we should clearly realize at this point that the people who win elections don't care about Trump doing or saying stupid shit, and no amount of attention to the stupid shit Trump did or said will change that. The people who think that a person who says and does stuff like that should not be in office already don't vote for Trump. But they are either not living in the right states to matter, or there are simply not enough of them.
It feels weird to admit this, because it really shouldn't be true. But apparently an election winning minority of americans simply doesn't care, and will not care, no matter how often you mention it. They should care, sure. And i get the desire to repeat it again and again, because surely they must not have noticed it so far, otherwise they would not support him. But they do know, they just don't care.
So my hope is that you can at least convince some of them with the actually evil stuff his administration is doing. Because just the insane stupidity doesn't seem to matter. So one needs to change tactics.
And holding Trump accountable isn't going to happen while republicans have power. The only way it is going to happen is if democrats gain a filibuster proof majority in the senate. And honestly, probably not even then. It is weird, and it shouldn't be this way. But america is simply broken, and doesn't care enough to fix itself.
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That story about the CIA extracting a high value mole from Moscow with access to Putin within the russian administration because they think that Trump is too dumb not to tell it to Putin is hilarious and terrifying at the same time.
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The idea is that those people who support Trump when asked, claim to do so due to certain ideologies. Like i said it baffles me that there doesn't seem to be a particular idealogy where someone would stand by trump in particular, rather than the ideology itself. If they think he is a strongman, then seeing him with a picture of a marker pen drawn into a diagram should shake that ideology. Those who are borderline should be galvanised away from him.
The "evil stuff" trump does appears to be exactly what those who support Trump want. They want the concentration camps. They want to ignore climate change. They seem to celebrate nepotism. So why should we discuss those if those encourage the cult of trump? If nothing can ever hold trump and his party to account, then America and with it democracy around the world is lost.
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On September 10 2019 23:12 Biff The Understudy wrote:
That story about the CIA extracting a high value mole from Moscow with access to Putin within the russian administration because they think that Trump is too dumb not to tell it to Putin is hilarious and terrifying at the same time.
Apparently the whole of the information network in China vanished shortly after Trump met Xi Jinping.
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On September 10 2019 22:05 Simberto wrote:
I know that this is a played-out meme, but this is really 1984. The attempt to completely dislodge truth from reality, and make it only based on what the leader says is true.
It might also be an attrition or distraction tactic. Let people spend all of their energy fighting something as obviously stupid as that, so they do not notice the actually bad things happening, or are too exhausted to fight them.
Note, for example, that this thread is once again only talking about a stupid but ultimately inconsequential thing Trump said or did.
We are not talking about, for example, the still existing and growing concentration camps. Or about the devastating effects of ignoring climate change (Which usually happens with natural disasters like hurricanes. Or about the utter greedy nepotism that Trump still uses to profit off of the US government. Or about any of the myriad other really bad thing that the Trump regime is currently doing. No, we talk about the silly stupid thing Trump said and did, because it is fun to make fun of that and laugh at how idiotic the guy is. Meanwhile, we are ignoring the actually devastating nefariousness that is going on.
I don't think it's inconsequential at all. The outright denial of facts and replacing them with whatever he makes up is the core of the issue. It shows how fanatical the support for him is that he gets away with something this bold faced, and has loads of people defending him doing something this fucking dumb. That fanaticism is the reason why a lot of people don't care about conditions of refugees, because they believe the administrations framing of hordes of criminals and murderers. That fanaticism is why people think they have 'the cleanest air and water' because Trump says so while reducing every threshold of environmental protections and replace them with profit. The 137th report on another Trump self-dealing corruption issue is accepted with yawns because it's surely another frame job by the media, and what about those Hilary emails?
If people can't even be convinced of his clear as day stupidity then they will never be convinced on the actual issues
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I kind of want to, briefly, bring back what Grumbels said about social punishment for those that support trump. While you never want to ostracize people for their beliefs, knowingly supporting someone who has the intent to ruin your and possibly a lot of lives because they are just plain incompetent, should not be allowed to vote. People are willing to see the country, and by extension the world, go to ruin because party over anything else. That is unacceptable. There are no right ways to go about this sadly.
But yes, if you continue to support and vote for someone like this, I don't know. I have some friends who are closet trump supporters and it's immigration for them. They don't care or see the larger picture, just that immigration needs fixing, by any means necessary. And these people have secure jobs.
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Who has watched the movie Gangs of New York? Literally the same garbage that's going on right now with Trump supporters. History and Racists never change.
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Indeed, a lot of Trump’s support compares readily with the Know-Nothings of that time period.
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Are we talking about the ending or the whole movie? Because I can see both in your statements.
I guess I should retract my previous statement and say that I'm not for publicly shaming the people who support this administration. But I think at least 80% in the administration need to be investigated for malfeasance.
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On September 10 2019 19:49 brian wrote:
i mean, to say the least. he was lying about the path of a then cat 5 hurricane. forget agriculture, people’s lives are on the line. but we already knew he doesn’t care about that, so to some end this too is just not new.
what does kind of burn me this time is that a whole production crew got in on the fun this time. people set up lighting. cameras. recorded this in, was it the oval? it’s not just Trump this time. and over this nonsense.
and then now there’s some kind of coordinated inter agency cover up (even if it is just press releases, i don’t mean to make more of this than it is,) for it? like what? because he was mistaken about the path of a hurricane. the mundanity of it all leading to all this. The entire reason the Birmingham NWS people put out the statement correcting Trump was because they were getting swamped with people calling who were panicking about preparing for a possible category 5 hurricane. This is one thing Trump and Ross don't seem to understand: all the shit they keep pulling has real world consequences, even if they can't see them. This isn't some company that might have some number in a spreadsheet end up being slightly lower. This is people panicking and trying to decide whether they should start boarding up their houses and leaving the area or not.
I truly think Wilbur Ross is up there with Stephen Miller as the most purely evil people in the Trump administration. He shows absolutely no respect for the rule of law or for the processes that run the US. As a reminder he also was the person pushing to put a citizenship question on the census, and continued to try to put the question on even after multiple levels of courts ruled it unconstitutional.
This is what happens when you put a bunch of out-of-touch, incompetent CEOs who are used to being surrounded by a bunch of yes men in charge of a country. The second they are told no they have a hissy fit so they try to bully their way into getting what they want. They've never had to follow the rules before so when put into a system with checks and balances in place, suddenly they don't know how to function.
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I mean Trump Supporters at least the one in the administration are knowingly harming others with little to no remorse at all. Calling them out in the public is the least of their worries. This is why Moscow Mitch is a thing, and I'm all for it.
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EPT
