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I'd be shocked if the census went out with the citizenship question at this point. If there was a better argument beyond the VRA, they would have raised it in their briefs. The combination of a lack of new argument combined with the new potential evidence of racial animus means there is very little momentum on Trumps admins side.
Tho i have to give the conservatives on the court credit since this is a very clever way to kill it without having to actually strike it down; basically they can drag it out until time makes the question moot, thus not having to making any real decision that sets precedent against their side.
As for the gerrymander case, I expected as much. I suppose the silver lining is they didnt endorse political gerrymandering and only said they couldn't do anything about it. Still, I imagine this decision will not be treated well in the history books, especially as the damage it will allow becomes more apparent.
Good thing the Dems had a lot of wins at the state level in 2018. Win more in 2020 and this becomes even less of an issue for the party.
Edit: Trump is considering trying to delay his administrations constitutionally required duty in order to get the census issue back to the court. Who knew this was such a big deal to Trump.
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On June 28 2019 04:44 On_Slaught wrote:
I'd be shocked if the census went out with the citizenship question at this point. If there was a better argument beyond the VRA, they would have raised it in their briefs. The combination of a lack of new argument combined with the new potential evidence of racial animus means there is very little momentum on Trumps admins side.
Tho i have to give the conservatives on the court credit since this is a very clever way to kill it without having to actually strike it down; basically they can drag it out until time makes the question moot, thus not having to making any real decision that sets precedent against their side.
As for the gerrymander case, I expected as much. I suppose the silver lining is they didnt endorse political gerrymandering and only said they couldn't do anything about it. Still, I imagine this decision will not be treated well in the history books, especially as the damage it will allow becomes more apparent.
Good thing the Dems had a lot of wins at the state level in 2018. Win more in 2020 and this becomes even less of an issue for the party. until the Republicans manage to win at some point and set themselves up for the next X years.
Honestly the best way might be to completely gerrymander the shit out of districts if Democrats win and then propose a permanent solution to Republicans to get rid of it.
Playing nice guy when the other side has no morals doesn't solve anything, your not going to win forever.
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United States41989 Posts
On June 28 2019 04:44 On_Slaught wrote:I'd be shocked if the census went out with the citizenship question at this point. If there was a better argument beyond the VRA, they would have raised it in their briefs. The combination of a lack of new argument combined with the new potential evidence of racial animus means there is very little momentum on Trumps admins side. Tho i have to give the conservatives on the court credit since this is a very clever way to kill it without having to actually strike it down; basically they can drag it out until time makes the question moot, thus not having to making any real decision that sets precedent against their side. As for the gerrymander case, I expected as much. I suppose the silver lining is they didnt endorse political gerrymandering and only said they couldn't do anything about it. Still, I imagine this decision will not be treated well in the history books, especially as the damage it will allow becomes more apparent. Good thing the Dems had a lot of wins at the state level in 2018. Win more in 2020 and this becomes even less of an issue for the party. Edit: Trump is considering trying to delay his administrations constitutionally required duty in order to get the census issue back to the court. Who knew this was such a big deal to Trump. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1144298731887628288
Suspending the constitution on Twitter? That’s a new one.
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On June 28 2019 04:50 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 04:44 On_Slaught wrote:
I'd be shocked if the census went out with the citizenship question at this point. If there was a better argument beyond the VRA, they would have raised it in their briefs. The combination of a lack of new argument combined with the new potential evidence of racial animus means there is very little momentum on Trumps admins side.
Tho i have to give the conservatives on the court credit since this is a very clever way to kill it without having to actually strike it down; basically they can drag it out until time makes the question moot, thus not having to making any real decision that sets precedent against their side.
As for the gerrymander case, I expected as much. I suppose the silver lining is they didnt endorse political gerrymandering and only said they couldn't do anything about it. Still, I imagine this decision will not be treated well in the history books, especially as the damage it will allow becomes more apparent.
Good thing the Dems had a lot of wins at the state level in 2018. Win more in 2020 and this becomes even less of an issue for the party. until the Republicans manage to win at some point and set themselves up for the next X years. Honestly the best way might be to completely gerrymander the shit out of districts if Democrats win and then propose a permanent solution to Republicans to get rid of it. Playing nice guy when the other side has no morals doesn't solve anything, your not going to win forever.
Make no mistake: gerrymandering will get significantly worse because of this decision. This will be the most significant political change since Citizens United, and quite possibly worse. Any legislators who might have been holding back so that they had an argument in court that it wasnt political will no longer hold back. Districts are about to get fucked.
The more I look at it, Id bet my house that Roberts only voted the way he did in the census case so that it could balance out this decision. If both cases went 5-4 in conservatives favor, it would have caused a huge uproar. Now he has the defense that one of the cases (the less important one in his view certainly) went the liberals way. We've seen this olive branch approach a few times since Kavanaugh took the bench I feel.
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On June 28 2019 04:57 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 04:50 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 04:44 On_Slaught wrote:
I'd be shocked if the census went out with the citizenship question at this point. If there was a better argument beyond the VRA, they would have raised it in their briefs. The combination of a lack of new argument combined with the new potential evidence of racial animus means there is very little momentum on Trumps admins side.
Tho i have to give the conservatives on the court credit since this is a very clever way to kill it without having to actually strike it down; basically they can drag it out until time makes the question moot, thus not having to making any real decision that sets precedent against their side.
As for the gerrymander case, I expected as much. I suppose the silver lining is they didnt endorse political gerrymandering and only said they couldn't do anything about it. Still, I imagine this decision will not be treated well in the history books, especially as the damage it will allow becomes more apparent.
Good thing the Dems had a lot of wins at the state level in 2018. Win more in 2020 and this becomes even less of an issue for the party. until the Republicans manage to win at some point and set themselves up for the next X years. Honestly the best way might be to completely gerrymander the shit out of districts if Democrats win and then propose a permanent solution to Republicans to get rid of it. Playing nice guy when the other side has no morals doesn't solve anything, your not going to win forever. Make no mistake: gerrymandering will get significantly worse because of this decision. This will be the most significant political change since Citizens United, and quite possibly worse. Any legislators who might have been holding back so that they had an argument in court that it wasnt political will no longer hold back. Districts are about to get fucked. The more I look at it, Id bet my house that Roberts only voted the way he did in the census case so that it could balance out this decision. If both cases went 5-4 in conservatives favor, it would have caused a huge uproar. Now he has the defense that one of the cases (the less important one in his view certainly) went the liberals way. We've seen this olive branch approach a few times since Kavanaugh took the bench I feel. Oh I know. If the courts can no longer stop extreme gerrymandering its going to get nuts. We all see what Republicans are willing to do if they feel the rein's slipping away.
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On June 28 2019 05:06 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 04:57 On_Slaught wrote:On June 28 2019 04:50 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 04:44 On_Slaught wrote:
I'd be shocked if the census went out with the citizenship question at this point. If there was a better argument beyond the VRA, they would have raised it in their briefs. The combination of a lack of new argument combined with the new potential evidence of racial animus means there is very little momentum on Trumps admins side.
Tho i have to give the conservatives on the court credit since this is a very clever way to kill it without having to actually strike it down; basically they can drag it out until time makes the question moot, thus not having to making any real decision that sets precedent against their side.
As for the gerrymander case, I expected as much. I suppose the silver lining is they didnt endorse political gerrymandering and only said they couldn't do anything about it. Still, I imagine this decision will not be treated well in the history books, especially as the damage it will allow becomes more apparent.
Good thing the Dems had a lot of wins at the state level in 2018. Win more in 2020 and this becomes even less of an issue for the party. until the Republicans manage to win at some point and set themselves up for the next X years. Honestly the best way might be to completely gerrymander the shit out of districts if Democrats win and then propose a permanent solution to Republicans to get rid of it. Playing nice guy when the other side has no morals doesn't solve anything, your not going to win forever. Make no mistake: gerrymandering will get significantly worse because of this decision. This will be the most significant political change since Citizens United, and quite possibly worse. Any legislators who might have been holding back so that they had an argument in court that it wasnt political will no longer hold back. Districts are about to get fucked. The more I look at it, Id bet my house that Roberts only voted the way he did in the census case so that it could balance out this decision. If both cases went 5-4 in conservatives favor, it would have caused a huge uproar. Now he has the defense that one of the cases (the less important one in his view certainly) went the liberals way. We've seen this olive branch approach a few times since Kavanaugh took the bench I feel. Oh I know. If the courts can no longer stop extreme gerrymandering its going to get nuts. We all see what Republicans are willing to do if they feel the rein's slipping away.
Dems 2, if more than 5 republicans get elected in the next cycle in CA I will be very disappointed in my state
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On June 28 2019 05:10 IyMoon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 05:06 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 04:57 On_Slaught wrote:On June 28 2019 04:50 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 04:44 On_Slaught wrote:
I'd be shocked if the census went out with the citizenship question at this point. If there was a better argument beyond the VRA, they would have raised it in their briefs. The combination of a lack of new argument combined with the new potential evidence of racial animus means there is very little momentum on Trumps admins side.
Tho i have to give the conservatives on the court credit since this is a very clever way to kill it without having to actually strike it down; basically they can drag it out until time makes the question moot, thus not having to making any real decision that sets precedent against their side.
As for the gerrymander case, I expected as much. I suppose the silver lining is they didnt endorse political gerrymandering and only said they couldn't do anything about it. Still, I imagine this decision will not be treated well in the history books, especially as the damage it will allow becomes more apparent.
Good thing the Dems had a lot of wins at the state level in 2018. Win more in 2020 and this becomes even less of an issue for the party. until the Republicans manage to win at some point and set themselves up for the next X years. Honestly the best way might be to completely gerrymander the shit out of districts if Democrats win and then propose a permanent solution to Republicans to get rid of it. Playing nice guy when the other side has no morals doesn't solve anything, your not going to win forever. Make no mistake: gerrymandering will get significantly worse because of this decision. This will be the most significant political change since Citizens United, and quite possibly worse. Any legislators who might have been holding back so that they had an argument in court that it wasnt political will no longer hold back. Districts are about to get fucked. The more I look at it, Id bet my house that Roberts only voted the way he did in the census case so that it could balance out this decision. If both cases went 5-4 in conservatives favor, it would have caused a huge uproar. Now he has the defense that one of the cases (the less important one in his view certainly) went the liberals way. We've seen this olive branch approach a few times since Kavanaugh took the bench I feel. Oh I know. If the courts can no longer stop extreme gerrymandering its going to get nuts. We all see what Republicans are willing to do if they feel the rein's slipping away. Dems 2, if more than 5 republicans get elected in the next cycle in CA I will be very disappointed in my state Sorry yes, both sides do it. But I don't recall having heard of things like Democrats fleeing from the law to another state to stop policy from passing. Or trying to completely gut the power of a governor when they lose it.
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On June 28 2019 05:17 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 05:10 IyMoon wrote:On June 28 2019 05:06 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 04:57 On_Slaught wrote:On June 28 2019 04:50 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 04:44 On_Slaught wrote:
I'd be shocked if the census went out with the citizenship question at this point. If there was a better argument beyond the VRA, they would have raised it in their briefs. The combination of a lack of new argument combined with the new potential evidence of racial animus means there is very little momentum on Trumps admins side.
Tho i have to give the conservatives on the court credit since this is a very clever way to kill it without having to actually strike it down; basically they can drag it out until time makes the question moot, thus not having to making any real decision that sets precedent against their side.
As for the gerrymander case, I expected as much. I suppose the silver lining is they didnt endorse political gerrymandering and only said they couldn't do anything about it. Still, I imagine this decision will not be treated well in the history books, especially as the damage it will allow becomes more apparent.
Good thing the Dems had a lot of wins at the state level in 2018. Win more in 2020 and this becomes even less of an issue for the party. until the Republicans manage to win at some point and set themselves up for the next X years. Honestly the best way might be to completely gerrymander the shit out of districts if Democrats win and then propose a permanent solution to Republicans to get rid of it. Playing nice guy when the other side has no morals doesn't solve anything, your not going to win forever. Make no mistake: gerrymandering will get significantly worse because of this decision. This will be the most significant political change since Citizens United, and quite possibly worse. Any legislators who might have been holding back so that they had an argument in court that it wasnt political will no longer hold back. Districts are about to get fucked. The more I look at it, Id bet my house that Roberts only voted the way he did in the census case so that it could balance out this decision. If both cases went 5-4 in conservatives favor, it would have caused a huge uproar. Now he has the defense that one of the cases (the less important one in his view certainly) went the liberals way. We've seen this olive branch approach a few times since Kavanaugh took the bench I feel. Oh I know. If the courts can no longer stop extreme gerrymandering its going to get nuts. We all see what Republicans are willing to do if they feel the rein's slipping away. Dems 2, if more than 5 republicans get elected in the next cycle in CA I will be very disappointed in my state Sorry yes, both sides do it. But I don't recall having heard of things like Democrats fleeing from the law to another state to stop policy from passing. Or trying to completely gut the power of a governor when they lose it.
It has been a number of years, but it has happened.
https://www.npr.org/2011/02/17/133847336/wis-democratic-lawmakers-flee-to-prevent-vote
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On June 28 2019 05:21 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 05:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 05:10 IyMoon wrote:On June 28 2019 05:06 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 04:57 On_Slaught wrote:On June 28 2019 04:50 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 04:44 On_Slaught wrote:
I'd be shocked if the census went out with the citizenship question at this point. If there was a better argument beyond the VRA, they would have raised it in their briefs. The combination of a lack of new argument combined with the new potential evidence of racial animus means there is very little momentum on Trumps admins side.
Tho i have to give the conservatives on the court credit since this is a very clever way to kill it without having to actually strike it down; basically they can drag it out until time makes the question moot, thus not having to making any real decision that sets precedent against their side.
As for the gerrymander case, I expected as much. I suppose the silver lining is they didnt endorse political gerrymandering and only said they couldn't do anything about it. Still, I imagine this decision will not be treated well in the history books, especially as the damage it will allow becomes more apparent.
Good thing the Dems had a lot of wins at the state level in 2018. Win more in 2020 and this becomes even less of an issue for the party. until the Republicans manage to win at some point and set themselves up for the next X years. Honestly the best way might be to completely gerrymander the shit out of districts if Democrats win and then propose a permanent solution to Republicans to get rid of it. Playing nice guy when the other side has no morals doesn't solve anything, your not going to win forever. Make no mistake: gerrymandering will get significantly worse because of this decision. This will be the most significant political change since Citizens United, and quite possibly worse. Any legislators who might have been holding back so that they had an argument in court that it wasnt political will no longer hold back. Districts are about to get fucked. The more I look at it, Id bet my house that Roberts only voted the way he did in the census case so that it could balance out this decision. If both cases went 5-4 in conservatives favor, it would have caused a huge uproar. Now he has the defense that one of the cases (the less important one in his view certainly) went the liberals way. We've seen this olive branch approach a few times since Kavanaugh took the bench I feel. Oh I know. If the courts can no longer stop extreme gerrymandering its going to get nuts. We all see what Republicans are willing to do if they feel the rein's slipping away. Dems 2, if more than 5 republicans get elected in the next cycle in CA I will be very disappointed in my state Sorry yes, both sides do it. But I don't recall having heard of things like Democrats fleeing from the law to another state to stop policy from passing. Or trying to completely gut the power of a governor when they lose it. It has been a number of years, but it has happened. https://www.npr.org/2011/02/17/133847336/wis-democratic-lawmakers-flee-to-prevent-vote
Thanks for posting it. They did flee.
I think you still have a point about stripping power from a governor though.
And I don't want you to miss my point, I think the dems should go crazy with this. Do it everywhere. Use it as a tool to get people to agree it has to go. Playing nice doesn't work very well
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One thing we could start seeing more of, especially once a round or two of Dem noms take the bench, is courts rendering decisions they know will be reversed. It happens with habeas decisions from time to time, and I could see something similar happening with gerrymandering. I might be tempted to do such a thing were I a judge 
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On June 28 2019 05:21 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 05:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 05:10 IyMoon wrote:On June 28 2019 05:06 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 04:57 On_Slaught wrote:On June 28 2019 04:50 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 04:44 On_Slaught wrote:
I'd be shocked if the census went out with the citizenship question at this point. If there was a better argument beyond the VRA, they would have raised it in their briefs. The combination of a lack of new argument combined with the new potential evidence of racial animus means there is very little momentum on Trumps admins side.
Tho i have to give the conservatives on the court credit since this is a very clever way to kill it without having to actually strike it down; basically they can drag it out until time makes the question moot, thus not having to making any real decision that sets precedent against their side.
As for the gerrymander case, I expected as much. I suppose the silver lining is they didnt endorse political gerrymandering and only said they couldn't do anything about it. Still, I imagine this decision will not be treated well in the history books, especially as the damage it will allow becomes more apparent.
Good thing the Dems had a lot of wins at the state level in 2018. Win more in 2020 and this becomes even less of an issue for the party. until the Republicans manage to win at some point and set themselves up for the next X years. Honestly the best way might be to completely gerrymander the shit out of districts if Democrats win and then propose a permanent solution to Republicans to get rid of it. Playing nice guy when the other side has no morals doesn't solve anything, your not going to win forever. Make no mistake: gerrymandering will get significantly worse because of this decision. This will be the most significant political change since Citizens United, and quite possibly worse. Any legislators who might have been holding back so that they had an argument in court that it wasnt political will no longer hold back. Districts are about to get fucked. The more I look at it, Id bet my house that Roberts only voted the way he did in the census case so that it could balance out this decision. If both cases went 5-4 in conservatives favor, it would have caused a huge uproar. Now he has the defense that one of the cases (the less important one in his view certainly) went the liberals way. We've seen this olive branch approach a few times since Kavanaugh took the bench I feel. Oh I know. If the courts can no longer stop extreme gerrymandering its going to get nuts. We all see what Republicans are willing to do if they feel the rein's slipping away. Dems 2, if more than 5 republicans get elected in the next cycle in CA I will be very disappointed in my state Sorry yes, both sides do it. But I don't recall having heard of things like Democrats fleeing from the law to another state to stop policy from passing. Or trying to completely gut the power of a governor when they lose it. It has been a number of years, but it has happened. https://www.npr.org/2011/02/17/133847336/wis-democratic-lawmakers-flee-to-prevent-vote
That is an especially poignant example because Wisconsin is one of the states that Republicans have gerrymandered to hell.
Oregon, by contrast, in 2018 Democrats won about 59% to 38%. In 2016 they won about 51% to 44%. Oregon senators serve 4 years terms, so the entire current state senate represents a majority of the population of the state.
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On June 28 2019 05:21 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 05:17 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 05:10 IyMoon wrote:On June 28 2019 05:06 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 04:57 On_Slaught wrote:On June 28 2019 04:50 Gorsameth wrote:On June 28 2019 04:44 On_Slaught wrote:
I'd be shocked if the census went out with the citizenship question at this point. If there was a better argument beyond the VRA, they would have raised it in their briefs. The combination of a lack of new argument combined with the new potential evidence of racial animus means there is very little momentum on Trumps admins side.
Tho i have to give the conservatives on the court credit since this is a very clever way to kill it without having to actually strike it down; basically they can drag it out until time makes the question moot, thus not having to making any real decision that sets precedent against their side.
As for the gerrymander case, I expected as much. I suppose the silver lining is they didnt endorse political gerrymandering and only said they couldn't do anything about it. Still, I imagine this decision will not be treated well in the history books, especially as the damage it will allow becomes more apparent.
Good thing the Dems had a lot of wins at the state level in 2018. Win more in 2020 and this becomes even less of an issue for the party. until the Republicans manage to win at some point and set themselves up for the next X years. Honestly the best way might be to completely gerrymander the shit out of districts if Democrats win and then propose a permanent solution to Republicans to get rid of it. Playing nice guy when the other side has no morals doesn't solve anything, your not going to win forever. Make no mistake: gerrymandering will get significantly worse because of this decision. This will be the most significant political change since Citizens United, and quite possibly worse. Any legislators who might have been holding back so that they had an argument in court that it wasnt political will no longer hold back. Districts are about to get fucked. The more I look at it, Id bet my house that Roberts only voted the way he did in the census case so that it could balance out this decision. If both cases went 5-4 in conservatives favor, it would have caused a huge uproar. Now he has the defense that one of the cases (the less important one in his view certainly) went the liberals way. We've seen this olive branch approach a few times since Kavanaugh took the bench I feel. Oh I know. If the courts can no longer stop extreme gerrymandering its going to get nuts. We all see what Republicans are willing to do if they feel the rein's slipping away. Dems 2, if more than 5 republicans get elected in the next cycle in CA I will be very disappointed in my state Sorry yes, both sides do it. But I don't recall having heard of things like Democrats fleeing from the law to another state to stop policy from passing. Or trying to completely gut the power of a governor when they lose it. It has been a number of years, but it has happened. https://www.npr.org/2011/02/17/133847336/wis-democratic-lawmakers-flee-to-prevent-vote well alright them...
fuck all of em.
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Reports are Biden's handlers are banning him from the spin room, so if he goes we can pretty safely assume he lost bad and/or ignored them.
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On June 28 2019 06:02 GreenHorizons wrote:
Reports are Biden's handlers are banning him from the spin room, so if he goes we can pretty safely assume he lost bad and/or ignored them.
I suspect that we're going to discover tonight just how illusory Biden's current lead in the polls is.
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On June 28 2019 06:10 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2019 06:02 GreenHorizons wrote:
Reports are Biden's handlers are banning him from the spin room, so if he goes we can pretty safely assume he lost bad and/or ignored them. I suspect that we're going to discover tonight just how illusory Biden's current lead in the polls is.
I'm interested in finding out how much of a change in the polls these two nights of debates will actually create. With the exception of Julian Castro, who I think performed the best last night and really impressed me, I think most other candidates did either reasonably okay or not that great, and probably won't shift much. Biden has the most to lose (both mathematically and metaphorically) when he's being diluted by 9 other candidates on the stage, so a win for him is to not implode or drop like Jeb Bush.
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United States41989 Posts
I’m certain Biden will win over the crowd with his ambitious plans to continue the same policies they’re unhappy with and to bravely ignore the new challenges facing America. That’s the kind of inspirational leadership needed if we truly want to step confidently back into the 1980s.
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I'm hoping Yang doesn't do his bathroom tub analogy and gets right into the meat of the questions. He can't afford to waste time doing stump speechless. I'd say mimic the delivery of Warren and energy of Booker and Yang wins.
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I'm pretty sure Yang is going to have a rough time of things, but we shall see.
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On June 28 2019 06:54 farvacola wrote:
I'm pretty sure Yang is going to have a rough time of things, but we shall see.
He probably should but being an Asian guy (not a lot of those have been on these stages) and his propensity for soundbite jokes I won't be surprised to see his support double just for a "good" joke.
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The House bill of additional funding for ICE/CBP passed in a party-line vote, with many additional regulations and a small amount of money for detention facilities. The Senate version passed 84-8 with a heftier amount to house detained migrants. Only a couple days ago, Pelosi promised to go into reconciliation on the differences. Today, she changed her mind to pass the Senate version, much to the consternation of AOC. Regardless of whatever political motivations contributing, I applaud her decision to hasten resources to overcapacity ICE facilities
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EPT
