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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
“Pointing to his website is kinda shallow”???
Like what does matter? What he says out loud doesn’t matter. What he puts on his website doesn’t matter. He apparently campaigned on nothing because we can’t trust words write. Or spoken.
I’ve got a cool idea, all of it matters because he was running for president and won. And now all that shit he said is exactly what he is doing. Enough of this low grade gaslighting. The man ran on tax cuts.
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On April 16 2019 11:19 Introvert wrote:
pointing to his website is kinda shallow. Those don't matter, espeically for Trump. The overlap between what he says and his people say is often quite large. More than once he said his own taxes should be higher. One of his most consistent things was no changes to medicare or social security. Trump didn't go to rallies and spend 20 minutes riffing on tax cuts every time. Moreover, let's say you don't believe me about tax cuts. it'd be great to see evidence he ran as a fiscal conservative which is most directly related to what I posted above.
As for what "left" things he wanted... at various times he spoke well of other countries' healthcare systems and promised that "everyone" would have "great" insurance, and endorsed more government involvement in this area.
Is this gas lighting? It's not a matter of belief. We've discussed his tax cut plans in this very thread during the campaign. It was one of his main electoral promises. He did go to rallies to talk about tax cuts.
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On April 16 2019 10:56 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 10:53 JimmiC wrote:On April 16 2019 10:49 Introvert wrote:In some ways, Trump was a very centrist candidate. Fiscally liberal, culturally conservative is, by self-identification, the single largest group on that famous square diagram. **** And since today is tax day, here's an update in the tax law. Surprise! The media was lying. 80% got a cut, 6% got a raise in taxes, the rest were *about* the same. In particular I like the title of the piece, there's a lot going on there.
Face It: You (Probably) Got a Tax Cut
If you’re an American taxpayer, you probably got a tax cut last year. And there’s a good chance you don’t believe it.
Ever since President Trump signed the Republican-sponsored tax bill in December 2017, independent analyses have consistently found that a large majority of Americans would owe less because of the law. Preliminary data based on tax filings has shown the same.
Yet as the first tax filing season under the new law wraps up on Monday, taxpayers are skeptical. A survey conducted in early April for The New York Times by the online research platform SurveyMonkey found that just 40 percent of Americans believed they had received a tax cut under the law. Just 20 percent were certain they had done so. That’s consistent with previous polls finding that most Americans felt they hadn’t gotten a tax cut, and that a large minority thought their taxes had risen — though not even one in 10 households actually got a tax increase.
To a large degree, the gap between perception and reality on the tax cuts appears to flow from a sustained — and misleading — effort by liberal opponents of the law to brand it as a broad middle-class tax increase.
That effort began in the fall of 2017, when Republicans prepared to introduce legislation that models by the independent Tax Policy Center predicted could raise taxes on nearly a third of middle-class taxpayers. It continued through Mr. Trump’s signing of the law, even though the group’s models showed that the revised bill would raise taxes on relatively few in the middle class in the 2018 tax year.
After the law went into effect, Democrats played down those estimates and instead highlighted projections that most Americans’ taxes are set to increase in 2026, after the individual tax cuts in the law are scheduled to expire.
The messaging stuck. In December 2017, polling for The Times by SurveyMonkey showed that nearly two-thirds of Americans — and three-quarters of Democrats — did not believe they would get a tax cut from the new law. In this month’s poll, three-quarters of Democrats again said they did not think they got a tax cut from the law, and the overall share of Americans who said they had benefited rose only slightly from the 2017 expectations.
In convincing people that they would not benefit, “the Democrats did a very good job,” said Howard Gleckman, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. “They were able to put that into the public perception, and the reality has been unable to break that perception.”
Tax Cuts by the Numbers
Experts are divided on whether the tax law was a good idea. But there is little disagreement on this core point: Most people got a tax cut.
The Tax Policy Center estimates that 65 percent of people paid less under the law and that just 6 percent paid more. (The rest saw little change to their taxes.)
Other analyses reached similar conclusions. The Joint Committee on Taxation — Congress’s nonpartisan team of tax analysts — found that every income group would see a tax cut on average. So did the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a left-leaning think tank that was sharply critical of the law. In fact, that group went even further: In a December 2017 analysis, it found that every income group in every state would pay less on average under the law in 2019.
So far, tax season seems to be playing out more or less as the experts predicted. H&R Block, the tax-preparation giant, said last week that two-thirds of returning customers had paid less tax this year than last (excluding people who owed no tax in either year). Taxes were down, on average, in every state.
“The vast majority of people did get a tax cut,” said Nathan Rigney, an analyst at H&R Block’s Tax Institute. That’s been clear all along, he added, “just now we have real data to back that up.”
This is about half the article, and you should click it because it has graphs. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/14/business/economy/income-tax-cut.html It is hard to put Trump on the spectrum because he basically says everything and because of his constant lying it is hard to know what his position is. But to me the main policies that stuck out from the election were wall and tax cuts. Both which are decidedly right. And considering the next one I think of is getting rid of Obama care it is more right. What of his fiscal policies or promises strikes you as left? Trump didn't campaign on tax cuts. He campaigned on the wall, yes. But every time he was asked about doing things conservatives want done, like fixing entitlements, he said he wouldn't touch them. He didn't run on reducing the deficit, although he made noises about how he was going to save the government so much money. But he didn't campaign on tax cuts or on lowering government spending.
Who decides what Trump "ran" on? He literally bragged about how he would lower or freeze the deficit a number of times while trying to get elected. If that isnt campaigning I dont know what is.
Here you can find some choice quotes for those wondering:
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-deficit-breaks-promises-aafedb5302c1/
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On April 16 2019 11:25 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 11:19 Introvert wrote:
pointing to his website is kinda shallow. Those don't matter, espeically for Trump. The overlap between what he says and his people say is often quite large. More than once he said his own taxes should be higher. One of his most consistent things was no changes to medicare or social security. Trump didn't go to rallies and spend 20 minutes riffing on tax cuts every time. Moreover, let's say you don't believe me about tax cuts. it'd be great to see evidence he ran as a fiscal conservative which is most directly related to what I posted above.
As for what "left" things he wanted... at various times he spoke well of other countries' healthcare systems and promised that "everyone" would have "great" insurance, and endorsed more government involvement in this area. Is this gas lighting? It's not a matter of belief. We've discussed his tax cut plans in this very thread during the campaign. It was one of his main electoral promises. He did go to rallies to talk about tax cuts.
I didn't say he didn't have a plan. I said he didn't run on it. Nah, I recognize this pattern. We're all going to pretend now that a plan on his website or a "plan" he put out and talked about for like 3 days is "campaigning on tax cuts." He also said (more than once) that the rich should pay more.
You know, I was there too, as an outspoken critic of him for this and for many other things. This is retconning, a fairly popular thing with all stuff Trump over the past few years.
On April 16 2019 11:34 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 10:56 Introvert wrote:On April 16 2019 10:53 JimmiC wrote:On April 16 2019 10:49 Introvert wrote:In some ways, Trump was a very centrist candidate. Fiscally liberal, culturally conservative is, by self-identification, the single largest group on that famous square diagram. **** And since today is tax day, here's an update in the tax law. Surprise! The media was lying. 80% got a cut, 6% got a raise in taxes, the rest were *about* the same. In particular I like the title of the piece, there's a lot going on there.
Face It: You (Probably) Got a Tax Cut
If you’re an American taxpayer, you probably got a tax cut last year. And there’s a good chance you don’t believe it.
Ever since President Trump signed the Republican-sponsored tax bill in December 2017, independent analyses have consistently found that a large majority of Americans would owe less because of the law. Preliminary data based on tax filings has shown the same.
Yet as the first tax filing season under the new law wraps up on Monday, taxpayers are skeptical. A survey conducted in early April for The New York Times by the online research platform SurveyMonkey found that just 40 percent of Americans believed they had received a tax cut under the law. Just 20 percent were certain they had done so. That’s consistent with previous polls finding that most Americans felt they hadn’t gotten a tax cut, and that a large minority thought their taxes had risen — though not even one in 10 households actually got a tax increase.
To a large degree, the gap between perception and reality on the tax cuts appears to flow from a sustained — and misleading — effort by liberal opponents of the law to brand it as a broad middle-class tax increase.
That effort began in the fall of 2017, when Republicans prepared to introduce legislation that models by the independent Tax Policy Center predicted could raise taxes on nearly a third of middle-class taxpayers. It continued through Mr. Trump’s signing of the law, even though the group’s models showed that the revised bill would raise taxes on relatively few in the middle class in the 2018 tax year.
After the law went into effect, Democrats played down those estimates and instead highlighted projections that most Americans’ taxes are set to increase in 2026, after the individual tax cuts in the law are scheduled to expire.
The messaging stuck. In December 2017, polling for The Times by SurveyMonkey showed that nearly two-thirds of Americans — and three-quarters of Democrats — did not believe they would get a tax cut from the new law. In this month’s poll, three-quarters of Democrats again said they did not think they got a tax cut from the law, and the overall share of Americans who said they had benefited rose only slightly from the 2017 expectations.
In convincing people that they would not benefit, “the Democrats did a very good job,” said Howard Gleckman, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. “They were able to put that into the public perception, and the reality has been unable to break that perception.”
Tax Cuts by the Numbers
Experts are divided on whether the tax law was a good idea. But there is little disagreement on this core point: Most people got a tax cut.
The Tax Policy Center estimates that 65 percent of people paid less under the law and that just 6 percent paid more. (The rest saw little change to their taxes.)
Other analyses reached similar conclusions. The Joint Committee on Taxation — Congress’s nonpartisan team of tax analysts — found that every income group would see a tax cut on average. So did the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a left-leaning think tank that was sharply critical of the law. In fact, that group went even further: In a December 2017 analysis, it found that every income group in every state would pay less on average under the law in 2019.
So far, tax season seems to be playing out more or less as the experts predicted. H&R Block, the tax-preparation giant, said last week that two-thirds of returning customers had paid less tax this year than last (excluding people who owed no tax in either year). Taxes were down, on average, in every state.
“The vast majority of people did get a tax cut,” said Nathan Rigney, an analyst at H&R Block’s Tax Institute. That’s been clear all along, he added, “just now we have real data to back that up.”
This is about half the article, and you should click it because it has graphs. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/14/business/economy/income-tax-cut.html It is hard to put Trump on the spectrum because he basically says everything and because of his constant lying it is hard to know what his position is. But to me the main policies that stuck out from the election were wall and tax cuts. Both which are decidedly right. And considering the next one I think of is getting rid of Obama care it is more right. What of his fiscal policies or promises strikes you as left? Trump didn't campaign on tax cuts. He campaigned on the wall, yes. But every time he was asked about doing things conservatives want done, like fixing entitlements, he said he wouldn't touch them. He didn't run on reducing the deficit, although he made noises about how he was going to save the government so much money. But he didn't campaign on tax cuts or on lowering government spending. Who decides what Trump "ran" on? He literally bragged about how he would lower or freeze the deficit a number of times while trying to get elected. If that isnt campaigning I dont know what is. Here you can find some choice quotes for those wondering: https://thinkprogress.org/trump-deficit-breaks-promises-aafedb5302c1/
This article, of course, has nothing to do with campaigning for tax cuts, although, it backs up the other part of what I said, that he made noises about saving so much money (while being incredibly vague about it).
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On April 16 2019 11:41 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 11:19 Introvert wrote:
pointing to his website is kinda shallow. that doesn't matter, espeically for Trump. The overlap between what he says and his people say is often quite large. More than once he said his own taxes should be higher. One of his most consistent things was no changes to medicare or social security. Trump didn't go to rallies and spend 20 minutes riffing on tax cuts every time. Moreover, let's say you don't believe me about tax cuts. it'd be great to see evidence he ran as a fiscal conservative which is most directly related to what I posted above.
As for what "left" things he wanted... at various times he spoke well of other countries' healthcare systems and promised that "everyone" would have "great" insurance, and endorsed more government involvement in this area. That is not a plan, and left doesn't have "great insurance" it has universal health care. He was a right candidate, and that is fine, but it is odd to say otherwise.
At many times he sounded like he supported more government involvement in healthcare, including getting the government to make sure everyone had insurance. That's a leftist position.
edit: there is a reason that at times many Democrats said things like "Trump is actually the best Republican!"
This was mostly before he won the nomination of course, but compared to someone like Cruz or even Rubio, he was much more moderate on a whole host of issues. From healthcare, to government interference in the economy, to foreign policy, he strayed far from doctrinaire conservative positions.
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On April 16 2019 11:40 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 11:25 Dan HH wrote:On April 16 2019 11:19 Introvert wrote:
pointing to his website is kinda shallow. Those don't matter, espeically for Trump. The overlap between what he says and his people say is often quite large. More than once he said his own taxes should be higher. One of his most consistent things was no changes to medicare or social security. Trump didn't go to rallies and spend 20 minutes riffing on tax cuts every time. Moreover, let's say you don't believe me about tax cuts. it'd be great to see evidence he ran as a fiscal conservative which is most directly related to what I posted above.
As for what "left" things he wanted... at various times he spoke well of other countries' healthcare systems and promised that "everyone" would have "great" insurance, and endorsed more government involvement in this area. Is this gas lighting? It's not a matter of belief. We've discussed his tax cut plans in this very thread during the campaign. It was one of his main electoral promises. He did go to rallies to talk about tax cuts. I didn't say he didn't have a plan. I said he didn't run on it. Nah, I recognize this pattern. We're all going to pretend now that a plan on his website or a "plan" he put out and talked about for like 3 days is "campaigning on tax cuts." He also said (more than once) that the rich should pay more. You know, I was there too, as an outspoken critic of him for this and for many other things. This is retconning, a fairly popular thing with all stuff Trump over the past few years.
You know very well that it wasn't just a plan on his website, it was not an obcure electoral promise, you could have easily found speeches of his about tax cuts at rallies if you didn't choose to die on this absurd hill.
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Again, he is only moderate if you don’t pay attention to what his administration is doing when it comes to the ACA. He is moderate if someone doesn’t understand the meaning of the word moderation.
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United States41470 Posts
On April 16 2019 10:49 Introvert wrote:In some ways, Trump was a very centrist candidate. Fiscally liberal, culturally conservative is, by self-identification, the single largest group on that famous square diagram. **** And since today is tax day, here's an update in the tax law. Surprise! The media was lying. 65% got a cut (or more, depending on who you ask), 6% got a raise in taxes, the rest were *about* the same. In particular I like the title of the piece, there's a lot going on there. Show nested quote +
Face It: You (Probably) Got a Tax Cut
If you’re an American taxpayer, you probably got a tax cut last year. And there’s a good chance you don’t believe it.
Ever since President Trump signed the Republican-sponsored tax bill in December 2017, independent analyses have consistently found that a large majority of Americans would owe less because of the law. Preliminary data based on tax filings has shown the same.
Yet as the first tax filing season under the new law wraps up on Monday, taxpayers are skeptical. A survey conducted in early April for The New York Times by the online research platform SurveyMonkey found that just 40 percent of Americans believed they had received a tax cut under the law. Just 20 percent were certain they had done so. That’s consistent with previous polls finding that most Americans felt they hadn’t gotten a tax cut, and that a large minority thought their taxes had risen — though not even one in 10 households actually got a tax increase.
To a large degree, the gap between perception and reality on the tax cuts appears to flow from a sustained — and misleading — effort by liberal opponents of the law to brand it as a broad middle-class tax increase.
That effort began in the fall of 2017, when Republicans prepared to introduce legislation that models by the independent Tax Policy Center predicted could raise taxes on nearly a third of middle-class taxpayers. It continued through Mr. Trump’s signing of the law, even though the group’s models showed that the revised bill would raise taxes on relatively few in the middle class in the 2018 tax year.
After the law went into effect, Democrats played down those estimates and instead highlighted projections that most Americans’ taxes are set to increase in 2026, after the individual tax cuts in the law are scheduled to expire.
The messaging stuck. In December 2017, polling for The Times by SurveyMonkey showed that nearly two-thirds of Americans — and three-quarters of Democrats — did not believe they would get a tax cut from the new law. In this month’s poll, three-quarters of Democrats again said they did not think they got a tax cut from the law, and the overall share of Americans who said they had benefited rose only slightly from the 2017 expectations.
In convincing people that they would not benefit, “the Democrats did a very good job,” said Howard Gleckman, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. “They were able to put that into the public perception, and the reality has been unable to break that perception.”
Tax Cuts by the Numbers
Experts are divided on whether the tax law was a good idea. But there is little disagreement on this core point: Most people got a tax cut.
The Tax Policy Center estimates that 65 percent of people paid less under the law and that just 6 percent paid more. (The rest saw little change to their taxes.)
Other analyses reached similar conclusions. The Joint Committee on Taxation — Congress’s nonpartisan team of tax analysts — found that every income group would see a tax cut on average. So did the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a left-leaning think tank that was sharply critical of the law. In fact, that group went even further: In a December 2017 analysis, it found that every income group in every state would pay less on average under the law in 2019.
So far, tax season seems to be playing out more or less as the experts predicted. H&R Block, the tax-preparation giant, said last week that two-thirds of returning customers had paid less tax this year than last (excluding people who owed no tax in either year). Taxes were down, on average, in every state.
“The vast majority of people did get a tax cut,” said Nathan Rigney, an analyst at H&R Block’s Tax Institute. That’s been clear all along, he added, “just now we have real data to back that up.”
This is about half the article, and you should click it because it has 2 graphs that kind of make the point. It also talks about SALT. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/14/business/economy/income-tax-cut.html
The issue is that the tax cut was hugely expensive, driving us the deficit by a trillion dollars, while only materially impacting the super rich. Telling the poor “what are you complaining about? You saved a dollar” is missing the point.
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On April 16 2019 11:40 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 11:25 Dan HH wrote:On April 16 2019 11:19 Introvert wrote:
pointing to his website is kinda shallow. Those don't matter, espeically for Trump. The overlap between what he says and his people say is often quite large. More than once he said his own taxes should be higher. One of his most consistent things was no changes to medicare or social security. Trump didn't go to rallies and spend 20 minutes riffing on tax cuts every time. Moreover, let's say you don't believe me about tax cuts. it'd be great to see evidence he ran as a fiscal conservative which is most directly related to what I posted above.
As for what "left" things he wanted... at various times he spoke well of other countries' healthcare systems and promised that "everyone" would have "great" insurance, and endorsed more government involvement in this area. Is this gas lighting? It's not a matter of belief. We've discussed his tax cut plans in this very thread during the campaign. It was one of his main electoral promises. He did go to rallies to talk about tax cuts. I didn't say he didn't have a plan. I said he didn't run on it. Nah, I recognize this pattern. We're all going to pretend now that a plan on his website or a "plan" he put out and talked about for like 3 days is "campaigning on tax cuts." He also said (more than once) that the rich should pay more. You know, I was there too, as an outspoken critic of him for this and for many other things. This is retconning, a fairly popular thing with all stuff Trump over the past few years. Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 11:34 On_Slaught wrote:On April 16 2019 10:56 Introvert wrote:On April 16 2019 10:53 JimmiC wrote:On April 16 2019 10:49 Introvert wrote:In some ways, Trump was a very centrist candidate. Fiscally liberal, culturally conservative is, by self-identification, the single largest group on that famous square diagram. **** And since today is tax day, here's an update in the tax law. Surprise! The media was lying. 80% got a cut, 6% got a raise in taxes, the rest were *about* the same. In particular I like the title of the piece, there's a lot going on there.
Face It: You (Probably) Got a Tax Cut
If you’re an American taxpayer, you probably got a tax cut last year. And there’s a good chance you don’t believe it.
Ever since President Trump signed the Republican-sponsored tax bill in December 2017, independent analyses have consistently found that a large majority of Americans would owe less because of the law. Preliminary data based on tax filings has shown the same.
Yet as the first tax filing season under the new law wraps up on Monday, taxpayers are skeptical. A survey conducted in early April for The New York Times by the online research platform SurveyMonkey found that just 40 percent of Americans believed they had received a tax cut under the law. Just 20 percent were certain they had done so. That’s consistent with previous polls finding that most Americans felt they hadn’t gotten a tax cut, and that a large minority thought their taxes had risen — though not even one in 10 households actually got a tax increase.
To a large degree, the gap between perception and reality on the tax cuts appears to flow from a sustained — and misleading — effort by liberal opponents of the law to brand it as a broad middle-class tax increase.
That effort began in the fall of 2017, when Republicans prepared to introduce legislation that models by the independent Tax Policy Center predicted could raise taxes on nearly a third of middle-class taxpayers. It continued through Mr. Trump’s signing of the law, even though the group’s models showed that the revised bill would raise taxes on relatively few in the middle class in the 2018 tax year.
After the law went into effect, Democrats played down those estimates and instead highlighted projections that most Americans’ taxes are set to increase in 2026, after the individual tax cuts in the law are scheduled to expire.
The messaging stuck. In December 2017, polling for The Times by SurveyMonkey showed that nearly two-thirds of Americans — and three-quarters of Democrats — did not believe they would get a tax cut from the new law. In this month’s poll, three-quarters of Democrats again said they did not think they got a tax cut from the law, and the overall share of Americans who said they had benefited rose only slightly from the 2017 expectations.
In convincing people that they would not benefit, “the Democrats did a very good job,” said Howard Gleckman, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. “They were able to put that into the public perception, and the reality has been unable to break that perception.”
Tax Cuts by the Numbers
Experts are divided on whether the tax law was a good idea. But there is little disagreement on this core point: Most people got a tax cut.
The Tax Policy Center estimates that 65 percent of people paid less under the law and that just 6 percent paid more. (The rest saw little change to their taxes.)
Other analyses reached similar conclusions. The Joint Committee on Taxation — Congress’s nonpartisan team of tax analysts — found that every income group would see a tax cut on average. So did the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a left-leaning think tank that was sharply critical of the law. In fact, that group went even further: In a December 2017 analysis, it found that every income group in every state would pay less on average under the law in 2019.
So far, tax season seems to be playing out more or less as the experts predicted. H&R Block, the tax-preparation giant, said last week that two-thirds of returning customers had paid less tax this year than last (excluding people who owed no tax in either year). Taxes were down, on average, in every state.
“The vast majority of people did get a tax cut,” said Nathan Rigney, an analyst at H&R Block’s Tax Institute. That’s been clear all along, he added, “just now we have real data to back that up.”
This is about half the article, and you should click it because it has graphs. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/14/business/economy/income-tax-cut.html It is hard to put Trump on the spectrum because he basically says everything and because of his constant lying it is hard to know what his position is. But to me the main policies that stuck out from the election were wall and tax cuts. Both which are decidedly right. And considering the next one I think of is getting rid of Obama care it is more right. What of his fiscal policies or promises strikes you as left? Trump didn't campaign on tax cuts. He campaigned on the wall, yes. But every time he was asked about doing things conservatives want done, like fixing entitlements, he said he wouldn't touch them. He didn't run on reducing the deficit, although he made noises about how he was going to save the government so much money. But he didn't campaign on tax cuts or on lowering government spending. Who decides what Trump "ran" on? He literally bragged about how he would lower or freeze the deficit a number of times while trying to get elected. If that isnt campaigning I dont know what is. Here you can find some choice quotes for those wondering: https://thinkprogress.org/trump-deficit-breaks-promises-aafedb5302c1/ This article, of course, has nothing to do with campaigning for tax cuts, although, it backs up the other part of what I said, that he made noises about saving so much money (while being incredibly vague about it).
You literally said "he didn't run on reducing the deficit." That is a lie. An alternate fact as it were.
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It's hard to read Trump as having a coherent ideology on anything, because any given statement could be pandering, something he actually wants, an out and out lie, or some combination of the three. Combine that with being incredibly ill-informed (it's easy to believe you can cover all American's health insurance without a noticeable deficit impact when you think the monthly premiums are 12 bucks a year or 15 bucks a month because you are an uninformed buffoon) and placing him becomes a battle of which things you are inclined to think he genuinely means.
Even now, the way he describes the things he implements and what he says is going to happen (he had a perfect healthcare plan made with GOP to replace the ACA, the GOP was going to pass tax cuts in November, etc., etc.) is just utterly divorced from reality.
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United States41470 Posts
On April 16 2019 11:40 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 11:25 Dan HH wrote:On April 16 2019 11:19 Introvert wrote:
pointing to his website is kinda shallow. Those don't matter, espeically for Trump. The overlap between what he says and his people say is often quite large. More than once he said his own taxes should be higher. One of his most consistent things was no changes to medicare or social security. Trump didn't go to rallies and spend 20 minutes riffing on tax cuts every time. Moreover, let's say you don't believe me about tax cuts. it'd be great to see evidence he ran as a fiscal conservative which is most directly related to what I posted above.
As for what "left" things he wanted... at various times he spoke well of other countries' healthcare systems and promised that "everyone" would have "great" insurance, and endorsed more government involvement in this area. Is this gas lighting? It's not a matter of belief. We've discussed his tax cut plans in this very thread during the campaign. It was one of his main electoral promises. He did go to rallies to talk about tax cuts. I didn't say he didn't have a plan. I said he didn't run on it. Nah, I recognize this pattern. We're all going to pretend now that a plan on his website or a "plan" he put out and talked about for like 3 days is "campaigning on tax cuts." He also said (more than once) that the rich should pay more. You know, I was there too, as an outspoken critic of him for this and for many other things. This is retconning, a fairly popular thing with all stuff Trump over the past few years. Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 11:34 On_Slaught wrote:On April 16 2019 10:56 Introvert wrote:On April 16 2019 10:53 JimmiC wrote:On April 16 2019 10:49 Introvert wrote:In some ways, Trump was a very centrist candidate. Fiscally liberal, culturally conservative is, by self-identification, the single largest group on that famous square diagram. **** And since today is tax day, here's an update in the tax law. Surprise! The media was lying. 80% got a cut, 6% got a raise in taxes, the rest were *about* the same. In particular I like the title of the piece, there's a lot going on there.
Face It: You (Probably) Got a Tax Cut
If you’re an American taxpayer, you probably got a tax cut last year. And there’s a good chance you don’t believe it.
Ever since President Trump signed the Republican-sponsored tax bill in December 2017, independent analyses have consistently found that a large majority of Americans would owe less because of the law. Preliminary data based on tax filings has shown the same.
Yet as the first tax filing season under the new law wraps up on Monday, taxpayers are skeptical. A survey conducted in early April for The New York Times by the online research platform SurveyMonkey found that just 40 percent of Americans believed they had received a tax cut under the law. Just 20 percent were certain they had done so. That’s consistent with previous polls finding that most Americans felt they hadn’t gotten a tax cut, and that a large minority thought their taxes had risen — though not even one in 10 households actually got a tax increase.
To a large degree, the gap between perception and reality on the tax cuts appears to flow from a sustained — and misleading — effort by liberal opponents of the law to brand it as a broad middle-class tax increase.
That effort began in the fall of 2017, when Republicans prepared to introduce legislation that models by the independent Tax Policy Center predicted could raise taxes on nearly a third of middle-class taxpayers. It continued through Mr. Trump’s signing of the law, even though the group’s models showed that the revised bill would raise taxes on relatively few in the middle class in the 2018 tax year.
After the law went into effect, Democrats played down those estimates and instead highlighted projections that most Americans’ taxes are set to increase in 2026, after the individual tax cuts in the law are scheduled to expire.
The messaging stuck. In December 2017, polling for The Times by SurveyMonkey showed that nearly two-thirds of Americans — and three-quarters of Democrats — did not believe they would get a tax cut from the new law. In this month’s poll, three-quarters of Democrats again said they did not think they got a tax cut from the law, and the overall share of Americans who said they had benefited rose only slightly from the 2017 expectations.
In convincing people that they would not benefit, “the Democrats did a very good job,” said Howard Gleckman, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. “They were able to put that into the public perception, and the reality has been unable to break that perception.”
Tax Cuts by the Numbers
Experts are divided on whether the tax law was a good idea. But there is little disagreement on this core point: Most people got a tax cut.
The Tax Policy Center estimates that 65 percent of people paid less under the law and that just 6 percent paid more. (The rest saw little change to their taxes.)
Other analyses reached similar conclusions. The Joint Committee on Taxation — Congress’s nonpartisan team of tax analysts — found that every income group would see a tax cut on average. So did the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a left-leaning think tank that was sharply critical of the law. In fact, that group went even further: In a December 2017 analysis, it found that every income group in every state would pay less on average under the law in 2019.
So far, tax season seems to be playing out more or less as the experts predicted. H&R Block, the tax-preparation giant, said last week that two-thirds of returning customers had paid less tax this year than last (excluding people who owed no tax in either year). Taxes were down, on average, in every state.
“The vast majority of people did get a tax cut,” said Nathan Rigney, an analyst at H&R Block’s Tax Institute. That’s been clear all along, he added, “just now we have real data to back that up.”
This is about half the article, and you should click it because it has graphs. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/14/business/economy/income-tax-cut.html It is hard to put Trump on the spectrum because he basically says everything and because of his constant lying it is hard to know what his position is. But to me the main policies that stuck out from the election were wall and tax cuts. Both which are decidedly right. And considering the next one I think of is getting rid of Obama care it is more right. What of his fiscal policies or promises strikes you as left? Trump didn't campaign on tax cuts. He campaigned on the wall, yes. But every time he was asked about doing things conservatives want done, like fixing entitlements, he said he wouldn't touch them. He didn't run on reducing the deficit, although he made noises about how he was going to save the government so much money. But he didn't campaign on tax cuts or on lowering government spending. Who decides what Trump "ran" on? He literally bragged about how he would lower or freeze the deficit a number of times while trying to get elected. If that isnt campaigning I dont know what is. Here you can find some choice quotes for those wondering: https://thinkprogress.org/trump-deficit-breaks-promises-aafedb5302c1/ This article, of course, has nothing to do with campaigning for tax cuts, although, it backs up the other part of what I said, that he made noises about saving so much money (while being incredibly vague about it).
Trump specifically ran on the biggest overhaul of taxes since Reagan. It was discussed very extensively at the time by a lot of people in the topic, and in the media as a whole. Ending AMT, ending HoH, just three tax brackets, ending exemptions, pushing up phase outs etc. It was a big deal, it articulated the specifics of what it would do.
You’re misremembering. If you’d like to keep misremembering I could link you to my posts at the time, but I hope you’ll be gracious enough to concede that tax overhaul was a central component of the Trump electoral platform.
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On April 16 2019 11:57 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 10:49 Introvert wrote:In some ways, Trump was a very centrist candidate. Fiscally liberal, culturally conservative is, by self-identification, the single largest group on that famous square diagram. **** And since today is tax day, here's an update in the tax law. Surprise! The media was lying. 65% got a cut (or more, depending on who you ask), 6% got a raise in taxes, the rest were *about* the same. In particular I like the title of the piece, there's a lot going on there.
Face It: You (Probably) Got a Tax Cut
If you’re an American taxpayer, you probably got a tax cut last year. And there’s a good chance you don’t believe it.
Ever since President Trump signed the Republican-sponsored tax bill in December 2017, independent analyses have consistently found that a large majority of Americans would owe less because of the law. Preliminary data based on tax filings has shown the same.
Yet as the first tax filing season under the new law wraps up on Monday, taxpayers are skeptical. A survey conducted in early April for The New York Times by the online research platform SurveyMonkey found that just 40 percent of Americans believed they had received a tax cut under the law. Just 20 percent were certain they had done so. That’s consistent with previous polls finding that most Americans felt they hadn’t gotten a tax cut, and that a large minority thought their taxes had risen — though not even one in 10 households actually got a tax increase.
To a large degree, the gap between perception and reality on the tax cuts appears to flow from a sustained — and misleading — effort by liberal opponents of the law to brand it as a broad middle-class tax increase.
That effort began in the fall of 2017, when Republicans prepared to introduce legislation that models by the independent Tax Policy Center predicted could raise taxes on nearly a third of middle-class taxpayers. It continued through Mr. Trump’s signing of the law, even though the group’s models showed that the revised bill would raise taxes on relatively few in the middle class in the 2018 tax year.
After the law went into effect, Democrats played down those estimates and instead highlighted projections that most Americans’ taxes are set to increase in 2026, after the individual tax cuts in the law are scheduled to expire.
The messaging stuck. In December 2017, polling for The Times by SurveyMonkey showed that nearly two-thirds of Americans — and three-quarters of Democrats — did not believe they would get a tax cut from the new law. In this month’s poll, three-quarters of Democrats again said they did not think they got a tax cut from the law, and the overall share of Americans who said they had benefited rose only slightly from the 2017 expectations.
In convincing people that they would not benefit, “the Democrats did a very good job,” said Howard Gleckman, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. “They were able to put that into the public perception, and the reality has been unable to break that perception.”
Tax Cuts by the Numbers
Experts are divided on whether the tax law was a good idea. But there is little disagreement on this core point: Most people got a tax cut.
The Tax Policy Center estimates that 65 percent of people paid less under the law and that just 6 percent paid more. (The rest saw little change to their taxes.)
Other analyses reached similar conclusions. The Joint Committee on Taxation — Congress’s nonpartisan team of tax analysts — found that every income group would see a tax cut on average. So did the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a left-leaning think tank that was sharply critical of the law. In fact, that group went even further: In a December 2017 analysis, it found that every income group in every state would pay less on average under the law in 2019.
So far, tax season seems to be playing out more or less as the experts predicted. H&R Block, the tax-preparation giant, said last week that two-thirds of returning customers had paid less tax this year than last (excluding people who owed no tax in either year). Taxes were down, on average, in every state.
“The vast majority of people did get a tax cut,” said Nathan Rigney, an analyst at H&R Block’s Tax Institute. That’s been clear all along, he added, “just now we have real data to back that up.”
This is about half the article, and you should click it because it has 2 graphs that kind of make the point. It also talks about SALT. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/14/business/economy/income-tax-cut.html The issue is that the tax cut was hugely expensive, driving us the deficit by a trillion dollars, while only materially impacting the super rich. Telling the poor “what are you complaining about? You saved a dollar” is missing the point.
no, the point was the media convinced everyone they were actually getting a tax hike.
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On April 16 2019 12:02 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 11:40 Introvert wrote:On April 16 2019 11:25 Dan HH wrote:On April 16 2019 11:19 Introvert wrote:
pointing to his website is kinda shallow. Those don't matter, espeically for Trump. The overlap between what he says and his people say is often quite large. More than once he said his own taxes should be higher. One of his most consistent things was no changes to medicare or social security. Trump didn't go to rallies and spend 20 minutes riffing on tax cuts every time. Moreover, let's say you don't believe me about tax cuts. it'd be great to see evidence he ran as a fiscal conservative which is most directly related to what I posted above.
As for what "left" things he wanted... at various times he spoke well of other countries' healthcare systems and promised that "everyone" would have "great" insurance, and endorsed more government involvement in this area. Is this gas lighting? It's not a matter of belief. We've discussed his tax cut plans in this very thread during the campaign. It was one of his main electoral promises. He did go to rallies to talk about tax cuts. I didn't say he didn't have a plan. I said he didn't run on it. Nah, I recognize this pattern. We're all going to pretend now that a plan on his website or a "plan" he put out and talked about for like 3 days is "campaigning on tax cuts." He also said (more than once) that the rich should pay more. You know, I was there too, as an outspoken critic of him for this and for many other things. This is retconning, a fairly popular thing with all stuff Trump over the past few years. On April 16 2019 11:34 On_Slaught wrote:On April 16 2019 10:56 Introvert wrote:On April 16 2019 10:53 JimmiC wrote:On April 16 2019 10:49 Introvert wrote:In some ways, Trump was a very centrist candidate. Fiscally liberal, culturally conservative is, by self-identification, the single largest group on that famous square diagram. **** And since today is tax day, here's an update in the tax law. Surprise! The media was lying. 80% got a cut, 6% got a raise in taxes, the rest were *about* the same. In particular I like the title of the piece, there's a lot going on there.
Face It: You (Probably) Got a Tax Cut
If you’re an American taxpayer, you probably got a tax cut last year. And there’s a good chance you don’t believe it.
Ever since President Trump signed the Republican-sponsored tax bill in December 2017, independent analyses have consistently found that a large majority of Americans would owe less because of the law. Preliminary data based on tax filings has shown the same.
Yet as the first tax filing season under the new law wraps up on Monday, taxpayers are skeptical. A survey conducted in early April for The New York Times by the online research platform SurveyMonkey found that just 40 percent of Americans believed they had received a tax cut under the law. Just 20 percent were certain they had done so. That’s consistent with previous polls finding that most Americans felt they hadn’t gotten a tax cut, and that a large minority thought their taxes had risen — though not even one in 10 households actually got a tax increase.
To a large degree, the gap between perception and reality on the tax cuts appears to flow from a sustained — and misleading — effort by liberal opponents of the law to brand it as a broad middle-class tax increase.
That effort began in the fall of 2017, when Republicans prepared to introduce legislation that models by the independent Tax Policy Center predicted could raise taxes on nearly a third of middle-class taxpayers. It continued through Mr. Trump’s signing of the law, even though the group’s models showed that the revised bill would raise taxes on relatively few in the middle class in the 2018 tax year.
After the law went into effect, Democrats played down those estimates and instead highlighted projections that most Americans’ taxes are set to increase in 2026, after the individual tax cuts in the law are scheduled to expire.
The messaging stuck. In December 2017, polling for The Times by SurveyMonkey showed that nearly two-thirds of Americans — and three-quarters of Democrats — did not believe they would get a tax cut from the new law. In this month’s poll, three-quarters of Democrats again said they did not think they got a tax cut from the law, and the overall share of Americans who said they had benefited rose only slightly from the 2017 expectations.
In convincing people that they would not benefit, “the Democrats did a very good job,” said Howard Gleckman, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. “They were able to put that into the public perception, and the reality has been unable to break that perception.”
Tax Cuts by the Numbers
Experts are divided on whether the tax law was a good idea. But there is little disagreement on this core point: Most people got a tax cut.
The Tax Policy Center estimates that 65 percent of people paid less under the law and that just 6 percent paid more. (The rest saw little change to their taxes.)
Other analyses reached similar conclusions. The Joint Committee on Taxation — Congress’s nonpartisan team of tax analysts — found that every income group would see a tax cut on average. So did the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a left-leaning think tank that was sharply critical of the law. In fact, that group went even further: In a December 2017 analysis, it found that every income group in every state would pay less on average under the law in 2019.
So far, tax season seems to be playing out more or less as the experts predicted. H&R Block, the tax-preparation giant, said last week that two-thirds of returning customers had paid less tax this year than last (excluding people who owed no tax in either year). Taxes were down, on average, in every state.
“The vast majority of people did get a tax cut,” said Nathan Rigney, an analyst at H&R Block’s Tax Institute. That’s been clear all along, he added, “just now we have real data to back that up.”
This is about half the article, and you should click it because it has graphs. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/14/business/economy/income-tax-cut.html It is hard to put Trump on the spectrum because he basically says everything and because of his constant lying it is hard to know what his position is. But to me the main policies that stuck out from the election were wall and tax cuts. Both which are decidedly right. And considering the next one I think of is getting rid of Obama care it is more right. What of his fiscal policies or promises strikes you as left? Trump didn't campaign on tax cuts. He campaigned on the wall, yes. But every time he was asked about doing things conservatives want done, like fixing entitlements, he said he wouldn't touch them. He didn't run on reducing the deficit, although he made noises about how he was going to save the government so much money. But he didn't campaign on tax cuts or on lowering government spending. Who decides what Trump "ran" on? He literally bragged about how he would lower or freeze the deficit a number of times while trying to get elected. If that isnt campaigning I dont know what is. Here you can find some choice quotes for those wondering: https://thinkprogress.org/trump-deficit-breaks-promises-aafedb5302c1/ This article, of course, has nothing to do with campaigning for tax cuts, although, it backs up the other part of what I said, that he made noises about saving so much money (while being incredibly vague about it). Trump specifically ran on the biggest overhaul of taxes since Reagan. It was discussed very extensively at the time by a lot of people in the topic, and in the media as a whole. Ending AMT, ending HoH, just three tax brackets, ending exemptions, pushing up phase outs etc. It was a big deal, it articulated the specifics of what it would do. You’re misremembering. If you’d like to keep misremembering I could link you to my posts at the time, but I hope you’ll be gracious enough to concede that tax overhaul was a central component of the Trump electoral platform.
I'll reply this but this counts as a reply to all. Everyone candidate comes out with a plan. For everything. A candidate does not always actually spend any time campaigning on said plan. Of course this thread was all over it, because this thread was all over everything. He did not "discuss it extensively" unless by that you mean he also talked about how his own taxes should go up, or any of the other 99 things he talked about.
He did not campaign as some fiscal conservative. That was a selling point to many people.
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Seems like more of the "Will generally be a cut, but after 10 years will be a hike for the nonwealthy" which is what the media was actually saying.
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On April 16 2019 12:08 Gahlo wrote:
Seems like more of the "Will generally be a cut, but after 10 years will be a hike for the nonwealthy" which is what the media was actually saying.
The article I posted even mentions what I said, multiple times. It was sold as a hike.
To a large degree, the gap between perception and reality on the tax cuts appears to flow from a sustained — and misleading — effort by liberal opponents of the law to brand it as a broad middle-class tax increase.
That effort began in the fall of 2017, when Republicans prepared to introduce legislation that models by the independent Tax Policy Center predicted could raise taxes on nearly a third of middle-class taxpayers. It continued through Mr. Trump’s signing of the law, even though the group’s models showed that the revised bill would raise taxes on relatively few in the middle class in the 2018 tax year.
After the law went into effect, Democrats played down those estimates and instead highlighted projections that most Americans’ taxes are set to increase in 2026, after the individual tax cuts in the law are scheduled to expire.
On April 16 2019 12:15 Plansix wrote:
Introvert is just processing the reality that the tax cuts are wildly unpopular and will only get more unpopular over time. Which is what happens when to overhaul the entire tax systems with the care and patience of a 13 year jacked up on adderall and coffee. Now it’s the media’s fault that the terrible tax bill is unpopular and was never really part of Trumps platform.
I never said a word about its popularity. I'm talking about outright falsehoods, which, since the media spread them, are in fact the media's fault.
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Introvert is just processing the reality that the tax cuts are wildly unpopular and will only get more unpopular over time. Which is what happens when to overhaul the entire tax systems with the care and patience of a 13 year jacked up on adderall and coffee. Now it’s the media’s fault that the terrible tax bill is unpopular and was never really part of Trumps platform.
I would almost feel bad, but then I remember the death panels bullshit and that tons of Republicans believed that Obama was born in Kenya thanks to Fox News.
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Regardless of whether or not people fully understand the tax cuts, if anyone else was like me and saw their tax rebate get much much smaller they'll assuredly not have the impression that their taxes were lowered.
I get why it is like it is now once KwarK explained it to me, but the average American doesn't have a KwarK to explain these things to them properly.
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United States41470 Posts
On April 16 2019 12:07 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2019 12:02 KwarK wrote:On April 16 2019 11:40 Introvert wrote:On April 16 2019 11:25 Dan HH wrote:On April 16 2019 11:19 Introvert wrote:
pointing to his website is kinda shallow. Those don't matter, espeically for Trump. The overlap between what he says and his people say is often quite large. More than once he said his own taxes should be higher. One of his most consistent things was no changes to medicare or social security. Trump didn't go to rallies and spend 20 minutes riffing on tax cuts every time. Moreover, let's say you don't believe me about tax cuts. it'd be great to see evidence he ran as a fiscal conservative which is most directly related to what I posted above.
As for what "left" things he wanted... at various times he spoke well of other countries' healthcare systems and promised that "everyone" would have "great" insurance, and endorsed more government involvement in this area. Is this gas lighting? It's not a matter of belief. We've discussed his tax cut plans in this very thread during the campaign. It was one of his main electoral promises. He did go to rallies to talk about tax cuts. I didn't say he didn't have a plan. I said he didn't run on it. Nah, I recognize this pattern. We're all going to pretend now that a plan on his website or a "plan" he put out and talked about for like 3 days is "campaigning on tax cuts." He also said (more than once) that the rich should pay more. You know, I was there too, as an outspoken critic of him for this and for many other things. This is retconning, a fairly popular thing with all stuff Trump over the past few years. On April 16 2019 11:34 On_Slaught wrote:On April 16 2019 10:56 Introvert wrote:On April 16 2019 10:53 JimmiC wrote:On April 16 2019 10:49 Introvert wrote:In some ways, Trump was a very centrist candidate. Fiscally liberal, culturally conservative is, by self-identification, the single largest group on that famous square diagram. **** And since today is tax day, here's an update in the tax law. Surprise! The media was lying. 80% got a cut, 6% got a raise in taxes, the rest were *about* the same. In particular I like the title of the piece, there's a lot going on there.
Face It: You (Probably) Got a Tax Cut
If you’re an American taxpayer, you probably got a tax cut last year. And there’s a good chance you don’t believe it.
Ever since President Trump signed the Republican-sponsored tax bill in December 2017, independent analyses have consistently found that a large majority of Americans would owe less because of the law. Preliminary data based on tax filings has shown the same.
Yet as the first tax filing season under the new law wraps up on Monday, taxpayers are skeptical. A survey conducted in early April for The New York Times by the online research platform SurveyMonkey found that just 40 percent of Americans believed they had received a tax cut under the law. Just 20 percent were certain they had done so. That’s consistent with previous polls finding that most Americans felt they hadn’t gotten a tax cut, and that a large minority thought their taxes had risen — though not even one in 10 households actually got a tax increase.
To a large degree, the gap between perception and reality on the tax cuts appears to flow from a sustained — and misleading — effort by liberal opponents of the law to brand it as a broad middle-class tax increase.
That effort began in the fall of 2017, when Republicans prepared to introduce legislation that models by the independent Tax Policy Center predicted could raise taxes on nearly a third of middle-class taxpayers. It continued through Mr. Trump’s signing of the law, even though the group’s models showed that the revised bill would raise taxes on relatively few in the middle class in the 2018 tax year.
After the law went into effect, Democrats played down those estimates and instead highlighted projections that most Americans’ taxes are set to increase in 2026, after the individual tax cuts in the law are scheduled to expire.
The messaging stuck. In December 2017, polling for The Times by SurveyMonkey showed that nearly two-thirds of Americans — and three-quarters of Democrats — did not believe they would get a tax cut from the new law. In this month’s poll, three-quarters of Democrats again said they did not think they got a tax cut from the law, and the overall share of Americans who said they had benefited rose only slightly from the 2017 expectations.
In convincing people that they would not benefit, “the Democrats did a very good job,” said Howard Gleckman, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. “They were able to put that into the public perception, and the reality has been unable to break that perception.”
Tax Cuts by the Numbers
Experts are divided on whether the tax law was a good idea. But there is little disagreement on this core point: Most people got a tax cut.
The Tax Policy Center estimates that 65 percent of people paid less under the law and that just 6 percent paid more. (The rest saw little change to their taxes.)
Other analyses reached similar conclusions. The Joint Committee on Taxation — Congress’s nonpartisan team of tax analysts — found that every income group would see a tax cut on average. So did the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a left-leaning think tank that was sharply critical of the law. In fact, that group went even further: In a December 2017 analysis, it found that every income group in every state would pay less on average under the law in 2019.
So far, tax season seems to be playing out more or less as the experts predicted. H&R Block, the tax-preparation giant, said last week that two-thirds of returning customers had paid less tax this year than last (excluding people who owed no tax in either year). Taxes were down, on average, in every state.
“The vast majority of people did get a tax cut,” said Nathan Rigney, an analyst at H&R Block’s Tax Institute. That’s been clear all along, he added, “just now we have real data to back that up.”
This is about half the article, and you should click it because it has graphs. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/14/business/economy/income-tax-cut.html It is hard to put Trump on the spectrum because he basically says everything and because of his constant lying it is hard to know what his position is. But to me the main policies that stuck out from the election were wall and tax cuts. Both which are decidedly right. And considering the next one I think of is getting rid of Obama care it is more right. What of his fiscal policies or promises strikes you as left? Trump didn't campaign on tax cuts. He campaigned on the wall, yes. But every time he was asked about doing things conservatives want done, like fixing entitlements, he said he wouldn't touch them. He didn't run on reducing the deficit, although he made noises about how he was going to save the government so much money. But he didn't campaign on tax cuts or on lowering government spending. Who decides what Trump "ran" on? He literally bragged about how he would lower or freeze the deficit a number of times while trying to get elected. If that isnt campaigning I dont know what is. Here you can find some choice quotes for those wondering: https://thinkprogress.org/trump-deficit-breaks-promises-aafedb5302c1/ This article, of course, has nothing to do with campaigning for tax cuts, although, it backs up the other part of what I said, that he made noises about saving so much money (while being incredibly vague about it). Trump specifically ran on the biggest overhaul of taxes since Reagan. It was discussed very extensively at the time by a lot of people in the topic, and in the media as a whole. Ending AMT, ending HoH, just three tax brackets, ending exemptions, pushing up phase outs etc. It was a big deal, it articulated the specifics of what it would do. You’re misremembering. If you’d like to keep misremembering I could link you to my posts at the time, but I hope you’ll be gracious enough to concede that tax overhaul was a central component of the Trump electoral platform. I'll reply this but this counts as a reply to all. Everyone candidate comes out with a plan. For everything. A candidate does not always actually spend any time campaigning on said plan. Of course this thread was all over it, because this thread was all over everything. He did not "discuss it extensively" unless by that you mean he also talked about how his own taxes should go up, or any of the other 99 things he talked about. He did not campaign as some fiscal conservative. That was a selling point to many people.
You're misremembering.
It was one of the key campaign issues. Hillary campaigned on keeping things exactly as they were but adding a top-up tax for the superrich. Trump campaigned on tax cuts for the middle classes.
I'm not especially interested in discussing this because it's like discussing the historicity of the sinking of the Titanic. It happened. We have records. You're misremembering. I'm not going to accuse you of malicious misremembering, but you are misremembering.
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EPT
