EPTThe funny thing about this is that they are making Guaidó very hard to sell
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1078
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Godwrath
Spain10142 Posts
The funny thing about this is that they are making Guaidó very hard to sell | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On January 30 2019 04:00 RvB wrote: It's not just a problem in the US. Not vaccinating is a growing problem in Europe as well. No idea why though. Me theory is that these diseases have been gone long enough that those pushing against vaccines didn't have to live through watching others around them suffer through the diseases, but they've seen autism. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10142 Posts
On January 30 2019 06:29 Gahlo wrote: Me theory is that these diseases have been gone long enough that those pushing against vaccines didn't have to live through watching others around them suffer through the diseases, but they've seen autism. Concerns about vaccines effectivity is lower than religious beliefs that don't allow it. Except in Latvia, who the hell knows why. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 30 2019 04:06 Excludos wrote: Getting vaccinated as an adult isn't wrong either. It's not just "not wrong", it's actively recommended. Established medical organizations recommend a lot of vaccines for adults (yearly flu shot, tetanus booster every 10 years, pneumonia after age 65, etc.). It's just that when it comes to adults, we can't really make anyone do it because the the ethical/legal boundaries for medical autonomy are pretty clear-cut. If an adult doesn't want vaccines, we can't make them do it. Children are just an ethical nightmare when it comes to medical practice because they don't have autonomy to make their own medical decisions, so shitty parents that don't make decisions in the best interest of their kids become a problem. The state can actually override a parent's medical decision making if they are deemed to be acting against the best interest of the child--generally only really invoked in life-saving procedures with clear benefit (e.g. a Jehovah's Witness who refuses life-saving blood transfusion for their kid, or a mother who refuses chemotherapy for a kid with lymphoma because she believes in homeopathy). It's very easy to find cases where this has gone to court. Vaccines happen to occupy a troublesome space where because they are a form of preventative care rather than treatment, it's not really been established that medical providers or the state can override the parent's decision. Even though the same logic applies in theory, the nature of preventative care having probabilistic rather than deterministic benefit means that the same policies can't really be used (even though they should, IMO). | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On January 30 2019 04:44 Godwrath wrote: From a first look it seems to be religious beliefs, but it's really hard to pin it down to be honest. Mostly on Eastern Europe. What's the blame for the EU being so anti-science when it comes to GMO's? (The science is crystal clear on this one) | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On January 30 2019 12:03 Wegandi wrote: What's the blame for the EU being so anti-science when it comes to GMO's? (The science is crystal clear on this one) Or irradiated produce. | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On January 30 2019 12:03 Wegandi wrote: What's the blame for the EU being so anti-science when it comes to GMO's? (The science is crystal clear on this one) Government stances is due to protectionism. Same with other anti-GMO countries like Japan. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
Donald Trump sat down with Vladimir Putin for several minutes of conversation at the end of an evening event at the G20 summit in Buenos Aires in November, with no translator or note-taker from the US side to record the dialogue between the leaders, according to people who had direct knowledge of the encounter or were briefed on it. The discussions between the US and Russian presidents occurred at the 19th-century Colón theatre in the Argentine capital, as world leaders and their spouses or guests were streaming out of the building. Mr Trump was accompanied by Melania Trump, his wife, but no staff, while Mr Putin was flanked by his translator. The four of them sat at a table and were among the last to leave. In a sane world this would be the end of Trump as president. After canceling their official G20 meeting because of Russia being aggressive to Ukrainian ships, Trump (and Melania) had a short meeting with Putin with no US staff present. They discussed several key foreign policy issues including Syria. Note that this was about 3 weeks before Trump randomly proclaimed that the US was going to pull out of Syria. The WH admitted that the talks happened but wouldn't give further details. It doesn't take a genius to connect the dots between this and Trump's efforts to block any records of his conversations with Putin from making it into government hands. He really doesn't want people to know what he talks about with Putin. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6272 Posts
On January 30 2019 12:03 Wegandi wrote: What's the blame for the EU being so anti-science when it comes to GMO's? (The science is crystal clear on this one) A very effective anti GMO campaign by a large amount of NGO's like Greenpeace and negative coverage by the media. People generally perceive it as a big risk to health without much benefit. The fact that the US allows it and is considered a capitalist wild west where everything is allowed doesn't really help. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On January 30 2019 15:03 RvB wrote: A very effective anti GMO campaign by a large amount of NGO's like Greenpeace and negative coverage by the media. People generally perceive it as a big risk to health without much benefit. The fact that the US allows it and is considered a capitalist wild west where everything is allowed doesn't really help. Or something ridiculous like the precautionary principle. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18265 Posts
On January 30 2019 12:03 Wegandi wrote: What's the blame for the EU being so anti-science when it comes to GMO's? (The science is crystal clear on this one) GMOs aren't unhealthy. That doesn't mean they're perfectly okay. Genetic Engineering is a tool, it can be used to create wonderful crop properties, such as golden rice. However, it can also be used to create crops that promote some of the worst farming practices, such as Roundup Ready crops. This promotes monoculture, dependency on industrial powerhouses, and overusage of pesticides. As opposed to doing things that are better for the soil and surrounding environment such as crop rotations, mixing forms of pest control and not turning third world farmers into effectively indentured servants to Dow, Dupont or Bayer. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8067 Posts
On January 30 2019 16:24 Artisreal wrote: Or something ridiculous like the precautionary principle. It’s a bit more complicated than that. GMOs essentially put crops in the hands of the corporations that engeneer them which is a seriously big issue. The whole “GMOs cause cancer” is most certainly complete BS but calling ridiculous all arguments made against them is a bit simplistic. | ||
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explosivekangaroo
14 Posts
On January 30 2019 07:50 TheYango wrote: It's not just "not wrong", it's actively recommended. Established medical organizations recommend a lot of vaccines for adults (yearly flu shot, tetanus booster every 10 years, pneumonia after age 65, etc.). It's just that when it comes to adults, we can't really make anyone do it because the the ethical/legal boundaries for medical autonomy are pretty clear-cut. If an adult doesn't want vaccines, we can't make them do it. Children are just an ethical nightmare when it comes to medical practice because they don't have autonomy to make their own medical decisions, so shitty parents that don't make decisions in the best interest of their kids become a problem. The state can actually override a parent's medical decision making if they are deemed to be acting against the best interest of the child--generally only really invoked in life-saving procedures with clear benefit (e.g. a Jehovah's Witness who refuses life-saving blood transfusion for their kid, or a mother who refuses chemotherapy for a kid with lymphoma because she believes in homeopathy). It's very easy to find cases where this has gone to court. Vaccines happen to occupy a troublesome space where because they are a form of preventative care rather than treatment, it's not really been established that medical providers or the state can override the parent's decision. Even though the same logic applies in theory, the nature of preventative care having probabilistic rather than deterministic benefit means that the same policies can't really be used (even though they should, IMO). I don't believe that the state should have the authority over the medical decisions concercning children. I think the best solution is to fund information campaigns. | ||
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Neneu
Norway492 Posts
On January 30 2019 17:26 explosivekangaroo wrote: I don't believe that the state should have the authority over the medical decisions concercning children. I think the best solution is to fund information campaigns. Not sure how information campaigns from the government is going to persuade conspiracy theorists | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18265 Posts
On January 30 2019 17:26 explosivekangaroo wrote: I don't believe that the state should have the authority over the medical decisions concercning children. I think the best solution is to fund information campaigns. As Yango pointed out, they already have that authority. The question isn't whether the state should have that authority. The question is whether that authority extends to preventive measures or only applies in treating (acute) medical conditions. If a mother of a diabetic sells her son's insulin (provided to her by Medicaid), rather than giving it to him, is the state not authorized to step in? But more to the point, in a country obsessed with lawsuits, is there no precedent where an immunocompromised victim got measles and sued his hippy/evangelical community for negligence in preventing this completely preventable disease from spreading? It'd be a hard case to argue, but so worth it if you win. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8250 Posts
On January 30 2019 17:26 explosivekangaroo wrote: I don't believe that the state should have the authority over the medical decisions concercning children. I think the best solution is to fund information campaigns. Honestly I compare not giving your kids vaccines akin to child abuse, which is already well into what the state actively controls. You wouldn't get away with not sending your kid to school either, despite certain parents considering it worthless. Like I stated earlier, if you give people the option to do dumb things, they will. That might be fine in a society of only adults, but that is definitively not fine when it comes to children. Parents simply shouldn't be able to make bad decisions for their children with potential permanent negative effects, because people will. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12447 Posts
On January 30 2019 19:33 Excludos wrote: Honestly I compare not giving your kids vaccines akin to child abuse Yeah, I'm going to go with no on that one... | ||
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brian
United States9639 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22239 Posts
On January 30 2019 22:45 brian wrote: Remember, a senator once brought a snowball into the chamber to prove climate change was not real.According to cnn, 72% of the US population will experience below freezing temps, 25% below zero, and the weather in parts of Antarctica is more livable than Chicago. And Trump insinuated this is evidence against climate change this week. | ||
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