EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 1058
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
| ||
|
PhoenixVoid
Canada32750 Posts
Second part of the tweet chain, but is more of the same. + Show Spoiler + https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1088289916826648577 | ||
|
CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
| ||
|
Introvert
United States5000 Posts
On January 24 2019 13:45 PhoenixVoid wrote: Trump is only giving the SOTU address when the shutdown is over. A win for Pelosi, even if it is a bit petty, to me. https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1088288311922307072 Second part of the tweet chain, but is more of the same. + Show Spoiler + https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1088289916826648577 it was incredibly petty. but it was pretty low stakes. part of me wonders if he's also still trying to deal with moderate red state dems and is just trying to avoid dumb battles. | ||
|
ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On January 24 2019 13:51 CorsairHero wrote: I'd say its a definite win. Hes so weak he tried to come up with an attack name for her today at a press conference and all he could come up with was "Nancy" Technically he should be referring to her Speaker Pelosi (when not speaking to her directly especially), so calling her Nancy might be an attempt at disrespect. | ||
|
Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On January 24 2019 07:28 JimmiC wrote: It is good for socialism that Maduro is out, because he was not a socialist, he was a self serving dictator using socialism as a shield to distract his people from his theft. Him being out doesn't let people say "socialism" doesn't work look at Venezuela. It is much harder to say it doesn't work look at Norway. You realize Norway is one of the more capitalistic countries on the planet, right? https://www.heritage.org/index/country/norway Compare to Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba, Brazil, etc. It also must be an odd quirk that socialism pretty regularly leads to authoritarian autocrats. I don't seem to remember a poor socialist leader with a country low on the corruption scale. | ||
|
m4ini
4215 Posts
Having a good social security/welfare/healthcare system doesn't make your country socialist (by that measure half the EU is socialist - which is indeed the narrative of some of the more gun-touting 'murcans, but factually incorrect). As a sidenote: the nordic model can't be taken as a prime example at all even if it were somehow magically classified as socialist, since Norway amongst other nordic states have conditions that other countries don't meet. The reason it works so well is that they're very coherent countries - the nordic model wouldn't work in ethnically/culturally diverse countries like the US, germany, UK etc. edit: as a sidenote, Norway isn't "capitalist" either, to briefly make that clear. They're mixed economies where both capitalism to some extent and socialism to some extent are working together. edit2: better readup http://theconversation.com/what-the-world-can-learn-about-equality-from-the-nordic-model-99797 | ||
|
semantics
10040 Posts
On January 24 2019 14:08 ticklishmusic wrote: Technically he should be referring to her Speaker Pelosi (when not speaking to her directly especially), so calling her Nancy might be an attempt at disrespect. Considering his past name calling habits addressing them by their first name as a slight to their position is hardly his wheelhouse. | ||
|
Biff The Understudy
France8128 Posts
On January 24 2019 14:32 Wegandi wrote: You realize Norway is one of the more capitalistic countries on the planet, right? https://www.heritage.org/index/country/norway Compare to Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba, Brazil, etc. It also must be an odd quirk that socialism pretty regularly leads to authoritarian autocrats. I don't seem to remember a poor socialist leader with a country low on the corruption scale. Well so we agree that very high, very orogressive taxation, universal healthcare, extremely high unemployment benefits and so on are not socialism and have nothing to do with Venezuela. That’s good. | ||
|
Biff The Understudy
France8128 Posts
On January 24 2019 14:51 m4ini wrote: Not sure why that was brought up in the first place. Norway isn't socialist. They operate in the nordic model, which is a market economy. Having a good social security/welfare/healthcare system doesn't make your country socialist (by that measure half the EU is socialist - which is indeed the narrative of some of the more gun-touting 'murcans, but factually incorrect). As a sidenote: the nordic model can't be taken as a prime example at all even if it were somehow magically classified as socialist, since Norway amongst other nordic states have conditions that other countries don't meet. The reason it works so well is that they're very coherent countries - the nordic model wouldn't work in ethnically/culturally diverse countries like the US, germany, UK etc. edit: as a sidenote, Norway isn't "capitalist" either, to briefly make that clear. They're mixed economies where both capitalism to some extent and socialism to some extent are working together. edit2: better readup http://theconversation.com/what-the-world-can-learn-about-equality-from-the-nordic-model-99797 Wegandi, like the rest of the us right wing is using the word socialism tendenciously. Socialism in the western politics standard means a capitalist economy with strong regulation, strong social programs, and strong taxation. Basically Denmark. When Sanders says he is socialist, he just says he would like the US to look a but more like Denmark. And when you ask for all those Danish model feature, the right says you are socialist. Socialism in a marxist sense, which is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to US or european politics means that the states own the means of production. That’s Venezuela. That has nothong to do with anything and Wegandi knows it perfectly. Wegandi pretends in a first time to ignore the difference so that a left wing supporter who wants Denmark in fact wants Venezuela. But when you tell him: “but we want Denmark”, he suddenly start to make the distinction. Essentially the right calls you socialist for wanting Denmark, and then say you don’t want Denmark because you are a socialist and Denmark is not socialist. It’s intellectually dishonest and not very interesting. Anyone using Venezuela as a scarecrow these days is either arguing in bad faith or just too dumb to see the fallacy of his own argument. Leave it to Infowar: | ||
|
Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On January 24 2019 17:26 Biff The Understudy wrote: Well so we agree that very high, very orogressive taxation, universal healthcare, extremely high unemployment benefits and so on are not socialism and have nothing to do with Venezuela. That’s good. You just described the US. The people who say "I want Denmark or Norway, etc." are clueless. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/04/05/americas-taxes-are-the-most-progressive-in-the-world-its-government-is-among-the-least/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.170715bce56c https://www.economist.com/united-states/2017/11/23/american-taxes-are-unusually-progressive-government-spending-is-not The US has some of the most progressive taxes in the world, high unemployment benefits, a large welfare state, a large regulatory state, etc. Sure, the US does not have universal healthcare, but programs like Medicare/Medicaid/SCHIP are not far off and cost ridiculous amounts of money. So, please, spare me the B.S. So, sure, let's be like Norway and lower our Corporate tax rates to their level - 25% (it's 35% in the US). I'm sure, you're for that, right? Or how about we de-regulate a lot of our industries (many EU countries have less regulatory burdens than the US). So who is really being disingenuous here? | ||
|
iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On January 24 2019 06:31 Plansix wrote: I also recommend as a companion piece, The Man Who Broke Politics, which profiles Newt and his style of politics. His style was the prototype for what McConnell perfected, using dysfunction to obtain power. It is an interesting background piece and really highlights that the bad faith politics of the current Republicans was always the plan. It just took a decade to blow up all the bipartisan power groups that existed in the House and Senate. But unlike Newt, McConnell has obtained power to achieve a goal, which is to pack the courts. But people sort of have his number now. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/11/newt-gingrich-says-youre-welcome/570832/ Also, you have to be an amazingly fucked up person to visit Verdun and come to the conclusion that, and I quote “I(Newt) realized countries can die,”. Like, mother fucker, you in a historical landmark that shows that countries don’t die even in the most destructive of wars. They endure. I know that mother fucker took history, but clearly he failed to grasp the part about how fruitless WW1 was. Or he just likes saying things that sound profound, but are in fact totally off base. Seriously, what sort of cynical mother fucker comes to that conclusion? Newt, the former speaker who loves to talk about natural law and other bullshit to justify his bullshit politics. Bit late to catch on to Mitch now that he's got a massive Conservative majority on the Supreme Court (and a high likelihood of RBG not making it through Trump's Presidency). | ||
|
Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On January 24 2019 06:31 Plansix wrote: I also recommend as a companion piece, The Man Who Broke Politics, which profiles Newt and his style of politics. His style was the prototype for what McConnell perfected, using dysfunction to obtain power. It is an interesting background piece and really highlights that the bad faith politics of the current Republicans was always the plan. It just took a decade to blow up all the bipartisan power groups that existed in the House and Senate. But unlike Newt, McConnell has obtained power to achieve a goal, which is to pack the courts. But people sort of have his number now. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/11/newt-gingrich-says-youre-welcome/570832/ Also, you have to be an amazingly fucked up person to visit Verdun and come to the conclusion that, and I quote “I(Newt) realized countries can die,”. Like, mother fucker, you in a historical landmark that shows that countries don’t die even in the most destructive of wars. They endure. I know that mother fucker took history, but clearly he failed to grasp the part about how fruitless WW1 was. Or he just likes saying things that sound profound, but are in fact totally off base. Seriously, what sort of cynical mother fucker comes to that conclusion? Newt, the former speaker who loves to talk about natural law and other bullshit to justify his bullshit politics. I understand you're saying this in the context of Verdun, but in the wider context of WWI this is a hysterical statement. I'm sure the Ottomans or Austro-Hungarians knew this truth that you speak of. | ||
|
Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9915 Posts
On January 24 2019 18:05 Wegandi wrote: You just described the US. The people who say "I want Denmark or Norway, etc." are clueless. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/04/05/americas-taxes-are-the-most-progressive-in-the-world-its-government-is-among-the-least/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.170715bce56c https://www.economist.com/united-states/2017/11/23/american-taxes-are-unusually-progressive-government-spending-is-not The US has some of the most progressive taxes in the world, high unemployment benefits, a large welfare state, a large regulatory state, etc. Sure, the US does not have universal healthcare, but programs like Medicare/Medicaid/SCHIP are not far off and cost ridiculous amounts of money. So, please, spare me the B.S. So, sure, let's be like Norway and lower our Corporate tax rates to their level - 25% (it's 35% in the US). I'm sure, you're for that, right? Or how about we de-regulate a lot of our industries (many EU countries have less regulatory burdens than the US). So who is really being disingenuous here? I don't know much about this but I had the distinct impression that the exact opposite was true. I'm not accusing you of lying here - I genuinely don't know alot about it - but can you back this up? | ||
|
xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
there you go. Norway 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 27.00 27.00 25.00 24.00 23.00 U.States 34.00 34.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 27.00 it's per year since 2003; last is 2018 | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22453 Posts
The US tax code is complicated to say the least, and has a lot of loop holes. Companies are not paying anywhere close to 35%. See for example www.thefiscaltimes.com which says Higgins calculated a different version of the marginal effective tax rate (METR), taking into account things like depreciation deductions, inflation and financing costs. Viewed through this lens, the U.S. already had a below-average tax burden compared to other large economies before the GOP law went into effect. The METR for the U.S. – the higher the METR, the greater the tax burden on businesses looking to deploy capital in new ways – was 10.8 percent in 2017 (see the chart below), compared to 13.8 percent for the rest of the top 20 global economies. With the reduction of the top federal corporate tax rate to 21 percent starting in 2018, the marginal effective tax rate has dropped to 3.6 percent – the second lowest among the top 20 economies. | ||
|
Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9915 Posts
On January 24 2019 19:16 xM(Z wrote: https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/services/tax/tax-tools-and-resources/tax-rates-online/corporate-tax-rates-table.html there you go. Norway 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 28.00 27.00 27.00 25.00 24.00 23.00 U.States 34.00 34.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 40.00 27.00 it's per year since 2003; last is 2018 The irony being that people call Corbyn a communist because he wants to bring our corporation tax up to about 35%. | ||
|
iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On January 24 2019 18:28 Wegandi wrote: I understand you're saying this in the context of Verdun, but in the wider context of WWI this is a hysterical statement. I'm sure the Ottomans or Austro-Hungarians knew this truth that you speak of. Were the Ottomans wiped out entirely to the point of extinction, or do we know them today by another name? Same for the Austro-Hungarians. | ||
|
m4ini
4215 Posts
Or how about we de-regulate a lot of our industries (many EU countries have less regulatory burdens than the US). So who is really being disingenuous here? Yeah, i'd like to see some comprehensive proof on that one. Until then, i call bullshit. Especially since countries in the EU can't just "deregulate" willy nilly, since a lot of regulations for industries are set by the EU itself. Hell, we regulate how bent a banana and cucumber have to be. | ||
|
Excludos
Norway8267 Posts
On January 24 2019 21:12 m4ini wrote: Yeah, i'd like to see some comprehensive proof on that one. Until then, i call bullshit. Especially since countries in the EU can't just "deregulate" willy nilly, since a lot of regulations for industries are set by the EU itself. Hell, we regulate how bent a banana and cucumber have to be. QI had an episode on this a while ago. The banana regulation is a myth created by UK to scare people into voting to leave the EU. There's simply no such rule. That's not to say EU doesn't have a lot of regulations, they do, but they're not some silly "just because" rules that were made just to be made. A lot of the regulations are for health and safety reasons, as well as to keep markets competitive. You are correct in that Eu countries can't just choose to deregulate what they want. That would make the entire thing completely pointless. | ||
| ||
