Eh, this is really fucked up and I don't suggest reading it if you're in a good mood.
One thing that makes this interesting is that it happened in January but the media has done very little coverage on it, for reasons I believe due to the backlash it could have on society and the coinciding stories at the time (Duke case).
Basically a white couple got completely dismantled by 4 black men and a black woman. Description Excerpt:
The animals pictured above "allegedly" raped Christopher Newsom, cut off his penis, set him on fire and fatally shot him several times while they forced his girlfriend, Channon Christian, to watch it happen.
An even more cruel fate awaited her...
Channon Christian, was beaten and gang-raped in many ways for four days by all of them, while they took turns urinating on her. Then they cut off her breast and put chemicals in her mouth ... then murdered her.
I can't corroborate the EXACT details of what happened, although it is something along those lines if that is an exaggeration.
It's fair to say the news should have covered this story, but just from reading it I felt a sense of distaste for blacks for a couple of minutes before I came to my senses.
Gemminy jillickers! Thanks for bringing this to our attention!
edit: Also, you grow distaste for an entire ethnic group over the actions of a handful of people? You mean to say this reinforces your underlying racist feelings, mirite?
On May 01 2007 17:54 fusionsdf wrote: Why would you distaste black people because of this? That doesnt make any sense
Are you serious?
no are you serious? The mother fucking media is afraid of racial outbursts from within the white majority. Stupid assumption, incredibly disgusting how manipulative the media diverts such an attention away.
its just to prove how media censors stuff, it really shouldn't matter the race of who did it, but the fact they concealed such a cruel act its stupid because of the possible discrimination
Despite the gruesome nature of these murders, they received virtually no coverage in the mainstream media. Some commentators have said that this is due to a media bias which provides more coverage to cases in which whites allegedly attack blacks (such as the Duke Lacrosse case) than vice versa. [1][2] [3][4][5]
Five citations. Want to guess where they link?
Edit: HINT: (about us for the 4th link)
RenewAmerica is a grassroots organization that supports the "Declarationist" ideals of Alan Keyes. Its purpose, therefore, is to faithfully and courageously advance the cause of our nation's Founders.
The site is for ALL people who consider themselves loyal Americans. It has no philosophy, image, or agenda beyond this one unifying premise: America must return to its founding principles if it is to survive.
Because RenewAmerica is GRASSROOTS at heart, it remains fundamentally independent, creative, and energetic in pursuing its distinctive agenda in the cause of strengthening America. We welcome your creative energy in that vital cause.
The "reason" to have a distaste for blacks after this: Because the antagonists involved were all black, and we notice skin color whether we like to or not. It is easy (although not exactly reasonable) to take a case, or several cases, of extremely disgusting behavior such as this, notice that the perpetrators were black, and then mentally attribute one of the features associated with the criminal behavior as that of being black.
The reason not to: It simply is not rational or logical to take the claim "X's are bad. X's are also Y's. Therefore all Y's are bad." That's the logic that we can easily operate on, but it's obviously fallacious and is deadly for more than just unsound logic (it creates more tension between races, creates unspoken racism, etc etc).
It's sort of like how we're all afraid of doing anything that the Nazis did; if the Nazis did it, it must be evil. It's just a weird association that doesn't make sense when it's actually examined, but it does make sense how the association comes about.
On that note, Hitler was a vegetarian. Hence why I think eating meat is morally superior.
Odd that this wasn't shown in the media, but that site and its silly conspiracy theories really make me doubt all of the content of it. Not to mention the 'patriotic' background with changing bright colored texts everywhere.
They'll preach about equal rights while calling blacks animals?
And what happened to those two...wow. I am so sorry for the both of them. I just can't imagine being castrated and burned to death while the one I love watches, nor can I imagine being raped and tortured like Channon was.
Who else thinks the legal system in the US isn't strong enough to sentence them correctly?
You're right. I shouldn't have read this if I was in a good mood. Fucked my mood right up.
If this is real, fucking burn these pieces of shit. Anything but death for these fuckers is too good. Death is too good too, but atleast it keeps them from ever doing something like this again.
yeah tien there is no way anything on that site is reliable. we should not view this through the lens of that drivel. it would be interesting to hold a discussion of the news and its presentation without the influence of neocon hogwash
Well if you rape/murder and destroy genitalia, THAT just might make you a little...just a little...animal like? On a second thought, animals only rape and kill. Actually, that wouldn't make you animals, that would make you sick fucking bastards that deserve to be killed the same way.
Why hasn't there been an uprising for mainstream news? I bet people at their funerals were bawling, local news stations would've probably covered it indepth. There's got to be a video of something for something this atrocious. B
On a very very random note, that reminds me of a story where this woman who lives a town away from me, was hit by a frozen turkey and nearly killed her :o http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-141824.html Touching thing is, she ended up forgiving him and didn't want to destroy his life by putting him in jail.
On May 01 2007 18:11 epidion wrote: Odd that this wasn't shown in the media, but that site and its silly conspiracy theories really make me doubt all of the content of it. Not to mention the 'patriotic' background with changing bright colored texts everywhere.
They'll preach about equal rights while calling blacks animals?
They are not "animals" because they are black. They are "animals" because of what they did.
This article has furthered my racism towards black people. yeah yeah, some black people are not that bad, and those are the black people that hang out with other people because they realize how retarded other black people are.
p.s dont flame me, i live in an equal black/white/hispanic area and when you see someone riding off with your bike at 3am, its always a black person
On May 01 2007 18:18 Syndicate wrote: This article has furthered my racism towards black people. yeah yeah, some black people are not that bad, and those are the black people that hang out with other people because they realize how retarded other black people are.
p.s dont flame me, i live in an equal black/white/hispanic area and when you see someone riding off with your bike at 3am, its always a black person
Looking at the sources, I am skeptical at how the media summarized everything like it was a point blank crime case. Conservatives wield their mighty eyes over and pertain to it
On May 01 2007 18:18 Syndicate wrote: This article has furthered my racism towards black people. yeah yeah, some black people are not that bad, and those are the black people that hang out with other people because they realize how retarded other black people are.
p.s dont flame me, i live in an equal black/white/hispanic area and when you see someone riding off with your bike at 3am, its always a black person
It isn´t a problem of race, it is about wealth distribution, inequalty etc
On May 01 2007 18:18 Syndicate wrote: This article has furthered my racism towards black people. yeah yeah, some black people are not that bad, and those are the black people that hang out with other people because they realize how retarded other black people are.
p.s dont flame me, i live in an equal black/white/hispanic area and when you see someone riding off with your bike at 3am, its always a black person
It isn´t a problem of race, it is about wealth distribution, inequalty etc
exactly. i have done a lot of research on this issue in the past and its pretty appalling. it all goes back to the suburbanization of white america in the 50's and 60's when racism was still in full swing. all the white people left the city centers, and the black people were too poor to move out. white people and black people had different schools, and based on the funding mechanisms for schools (they rely largely on sales taxes) there began to grow a massive educational rift that is only growing larger
Why is a random act of extreme cruelty and murder so important that it just has to be covered by the news? As long as the people responsible are put to justice there's not much point in making a big deal of this. Murders and rapes happen all the time, this one sounds especially cruel but it isn't breaking news or anything.
On May 01 2007 18:42 boghat wrote: Why is a random act of extreme cruelty and murder so important that it just has to be covered by the news? As long as the people responsible are put to justice there's not much point in making a big deal of this. Murders and rapes happen all the time, this one sounds especially cruel but it isn't breaking news or anything.
Are you kidding? Scott Peterson killing his wife and child goes on national news for months and months, and 5 black men RAPING and TORTURING(WTF?) a white couple doesnt even hit the news at all? The news eats up racial(read white against black) stuff and publishes it everywhere (such as the lynching of that guy i forget his name but it's in this thread)
On May 01 2007 18:42 boghat wrote: Why is a random act of extreme cruelty and murder so important that it just has to be covered by the news? As long as the people responsible are put to justice there's not much point in making a big deal of this. Murders and rapes happen all the time, this one sounds especially cruel but it isn't breaking news or anything.
Are you kidding? Scott Peterson killing his wife and child goes on national news for months and months, and 5 black men RAPING and TORTURING(WTF?) a white couple doesnt even hit the news at all? The news eats up racial(read white against black) stuff and publishes it everywhere (such as the lynching of that guy i forget his name but it's in this thread)
dude. That was because it was a pregnant woman. Probably didnt hurt that it was a white, middle-class, pregnant woman.
Even ignoring that. Do you really think that was the only white murderer of the year? They pick and chose. Nancy grace happened to be able to sell this by going for the sensationalist-pregnant mom-must be a crazy dude-she was so innocent-oh my god a child emotional response.
It sold. Thats why. Not because the murderer was white, simply because it sold.
I belong more to the group that believes the media reports to the public what's more profitable.
Whatever news brings in higher ratings is the news that will be played out.
I do not believe it is because the media is racist vs one group of people vs another. I just so happens that reporting one type of racism is more profitable than another.
Although I would not know if this case is really a case of racism unless reported that the murderers did indeed do this because of race. Crimes like this happen everyday in America, white on white, black on black, hispanic on hispanic.
If I ever saw these fuckers in real life, I would beat the shit out of them.
And you too lil.sis for being a dumbass. Who cares how the website looks?
"only atrocity is the gif" ???????????????
I'm sure you probably just said that to sound "cool" and to make a point (which was ridiculous and irrelevant), but still... Don't be a dumbass.
And if you were joking, you shouldn't be. What if this shit happened to your parents? Fuckface.
I'll probably get banned for "disrespecting vetern forum members" but I don't give a shit. You need to have some respect for the dead, especially from this kind of shit.
On May 01 2007 19:32 TheosEx wrote: If I ever saw these fuckers in real life, I would beat the shit out of them.
And you too lil.sis for being a dumbass. Who cares how the website looks?
"only atrocity is the gif" ???????????????
I'm sure you probably just said that to sound "cool" and to make a point (which was ridiculous and irrelevant), but still... Don't be a dumbass.
And if you were joking, you shouldn't be. What if this shit happened to your parents? Fuckface.
I'll probably get banned for "disrespecting vetern forum members" but I don't give a shit. You need to have some respect for the dead, especially from this kind of shit.
look how ugly that black woman was. it isnt about that, its about some dumb N****ers doing some ridiculous shit. u heard about Houston the black rapper using PCP? he declared he was an angel and ripped his own eye out, and now resides in a mental institution. i bet 5 minutes b4 this happenned all of them were smoknig crack and pcp (definitely) and then said "imma rip that white boys dick off, cuz im a bad nigga"
On May 01 2007 19:37 fusionsdf wrote: I love how 3 pages in, we are still talking about the fact that they are black.
No one has mentioned that they are gang members.
It's pretty synonymous in most cases.
wow fuck you
Are you going to tell me that a large majority (if not overwhelming majority) of all gang members in the US are not african american?
Yes, there are far more hispanic gangs, but that's irrelevant, I'd read this as "black= in a gang", rather than "in a gang=black", I apologize.
So is there an official news source link with a little more detail? this one is just kinda talking about the whole race thing, I really want to just ignore the race factor for a while. What were the circumstances/motivations and when was this? I noticed alot of 6 month ago references like Anna Nichole Smith etc.
not a lot of people have been really hating on the south korean community after virginia tech, so that has really been respectful... since a lot of people expect a big hatred towards koreans after that incident
so i really think the black community as a whole should receive the same respect
p.s. those bastards... honestly.. i dont even know what to say, so fucking stupid
On May 01 2007 19:46 jjun212 wrote: any race is capable of this
not a lot of people have been really hating on the south korean community after virginia tech, so that has really been respectful... since a lot of people expect a big hatred towards koreans after that incident
so i really think the black community as a whole should receive the same respect
p.s. those bastards... honestly.. i dont even know what to say, so fucking stupid
Honestly, in a perfect world it wouldn't matter about color at all. It would be a man killed another man in a sick way and that man should be punished.
In this world, if the color of the skin is white and they do/say ANYTHING at all against somebody of another ethnicity, it makes national headlines and they have to go apologize to people like Reverend Jesse Jackson.
In a truely equal world, non-caucasians would have to say their apologies to Stone Cold Steve Austin or Chuck Norris after being nationally splattered with race oriented anti-white headlines across the country.
On May 01 2007 19:46 jjun212 wrote: any race is capable of this
not a lot of people have been really hating on the south korean community after virginia tech, so that has really been respectful... since a lot of people expect a big hatred towards koreans after that incident
so i really think the black community as a whole should receive the same respect
p.s. those bastards... honestly.. i dont even know what to say, so fucking stupid
Honestly, in a perfect world it wouldn't matter about color at all. It would be a man killed another man in a sick way and that man should be punished.
In this world, if the color of the skin is white and they do/say ANYTHING at all against somebody of another ethnicity, it makes national headlines and they have to go apologize to people like Reverend Jesse Jackson.
In a truely equal world, non-caucasians would have to say their apologies to Stone Cold Steve Austin or Chuck Norris after being nationally splattered with race oriented anti-white headlines across the country.
On May 01 2007 19:46 jjun212 wrote: any race is capable of this
not a lot of people have been really hating on the south korean community after virginia tech, so that has really been respectful... since a lot of people expect a big hatred towards koreans after that incident
so i really think the black community as a whole should receive the same respect
p.s. those bastards... honestly.. i dont even know what to say, so fucking stupid
Honestly, in a perfect world it wouldn't matter about color at all. It would be a man killed another man in a sick way and that man should be punished.
In this world, if the color of the skin is white and they do/say ANYTHING at all against somebody of another ethnicity, it makes national headlines and they have to go apologize to people like Reverend Jesse Jackson.
In a truely equal world, non-caucasians would have to say their apologies to Stone Cold Steve Austin or Chuck Norris after being nationally splattered with race oriented anti-white headlines across the country.
even on TL, how many times do we see a thread title of "lesbian woman does such and such" or "Islamic dude does X and Y" even though the fact that they were lesbian/islamic really had nothing to do with the crime? Pretty damn often if you ask me. It's sadly the way we've all been wired to think implicitly, including myself
On May 01 2007 19:46 jjun212 wrote: any race is capable of this
not a lot of people have been really hating on the south korean community after virginia tech, so that has really been respectful... since a lot of people expect a big hatred towards koreans after that incident
so i really think the black community as a whole should receive the same respect
p.s. those bastards... honestly.. i dont even know what to say, so fucking stupid
Honestly, in a perfect world it wouldn't matter about color at all. It would be a man killed another man in a sick way and that man should be punished.
In this world, if the color of the skin is white and they do/say ANYTHING at all against somebody of another ethnicity, it makes national headlines and they have to go apologize to people like Reverend Jesse Jackson.
In a truely equal world, non-caucasians would have to say their apologies to Stone Cold Steve Austin or Chuck Norris after being nationally splattered with race oriented anti-white headlines across the country.
even on TL, how many times do we see a thread title of "lesbian woman does such and such" or "Islamic dude does X and Y" even though the fact that they were lesbian/islamic really had nothing to do with the crime? Pretty damn often if you ask me. It's sadly the way we've all been wired to think implicitly, including myself
Take it beyond TL.net. Anywhere you go in this world, people are described by the ethnic traits.
If you're telling your friend about something you saw that was funny, do you start it off with "There was this tall, bald man who _____" or do you say "There was this black guy who ____"
a horror a horror what this fuckers did, i didnt knew about it, i hope those pieces of crap get beaten and raped by donkeys, but racism cant get in here, white people and asian people and latino people are capable of this shit, this is absurd... jesus.. i cant even believe it... this is just so freaking wrong... goddamn
This happened on January 6th, 2007....And we heard about fucking Anna Nichole Smith instead of this? Race aside, 2 people were murdered in the most gruesome and inhumane way imaginable...and the media didn't tell us because of the race of the killers? If there motivation was purely to avoid inciting racial hate, why could they not have just pictured the suspects or the victims?
On May 01 2007 19:46 jjun212 wrote: any race is capable of this
not a lot of people have been really hating on the south korean community after virginia tech, so that has really been respectful... since a lot of people expect a big hatred towards koreans after that incident
so i really think the black community as a whole should receive the same respect
p.s. those bastards... honestly.. i dont even know what to say, so fucking stupid
Honestly, in a perfect world it wouldn't matter about color at all. It would be a man killed another man in a sick way and that man should be punished.
In this world, if the color of the skin is white and they do/say ANYTHING at all against somebody of another ethnicity, it makes national headlines and they have to go apologize to people like Reverend Jesse Jackson.
In a truely equal world, non-caucasians would have to say their apologies to Stone Cold Steve Austin or Chuck Norris after being nationally splattered with race oriented anti-white headlines across the country.
even on TL, how many times do we see a thread title of "lesbian woman does such and such" or "Islamic dude does X and Y" even though the fact that they were lesbian/islamic really had nothing to do with the crime? Pretty damn often if you ask me. It's sadly the way we've all been wired to think implicitly, including myself
Take it beyond TL.net. Anywhere you go in this world, people are described by the ethnic traits.
If you're telling your friend about something you saw that was funny, do you start it off with "There was this tall, bald man who _____" or do you say "There was this black guy who ____"
The reason race came into play was because the author was arguing that if it had been white people who had committed the crime, the story would have made national headlines. The story may be a little prejudice but definitely not racist. It was probably written by an enraged family members or friend. How upset/angry would you be had this happened to your daughter or sister and received no media attention whatsoever. I would be beyond enraged.
On May 01 2007 19:46 jjun212 wrote: any race is capable of this
not a lot of people have been really hating on the south korean community after virginia tech, so that has really been respectful... since a lot of people expect a big hatred towards koreans after that incident
so i really think the black community as a whole should receive the same respect
p.s. those bastards... honestly.. i dont even know what to say, so fucking stupid
Honestly, in a perfect world it wouldn't matter about color at all. It would be a man killed another man in a sick way and that man should be punished.
In this world, if the color of the skin is white and they do/say ANYTHING at all against somebody of another ethnicity, it makes national headlines and they have to go apologize to people like Reverend Jesse Jackson.
In a truely equal world, non-caucasians would have to say their apologies to Stone Cold Steve Austin or Chuck Norris after being nationally splattered with race oriented anti-white headlines across the country.
even on TL, how many times do we see a thread title of "lesbian woman does such and such" or "Islamic dude does X and Y" even though the fact that they were lesbian/islamic really had nothing to do with the crime? Pretty damn often if you ask me. It's sadly the way we've all been wired to think implicitly, including myself
Take it beyond TL.net. Anywhere you go in this world, people are described by the ethnic traits.
If you're telling your friend about something you saw that was funny, do you start it off with "There was this tall, bald man who _____" or do you say "There was this black guy who ____"
The reason race came into play was because the author was arguing that if it had been white people who had committed the crime, the story would have made national headlines. The story may be a little prejudice but definitely not racist. It was probably written by an enraged family members or friend. How upset/angry would you be had this happened to your daughter or sister and received no media attention whatsoever. I would be beyond enraged.
Nevermind. I'm not going to be able to effectively share my thoughts without coming off as quite racist. Chances are somebody has already replied to this though and screwed me.
Fuck the media and fuck race. All I'm concerned about is that these sick fucks get what they deserve. Calling them "animals" is a insult to living things. I hope they die painfully and slowly, and hopefully repeatedly.
On May 01 2007 19:45 lil.sis wrote: what makes me really sick is the racism on this forum
You, too, huh? My problem is that the administrators and moderators let it run rampant. You'd think a website and forum regarded as the premier foreign BW community would have at least some standards.
On May 01 2007 19:45 lil.sis wrote: what makes me really sick is the racism on this forum
You, too, huh? My problem is that the administrators and moderators let it run rampant. You'd think a website and forum regarded as the premier foreign BW community would have at least some standards.
http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=51895 been done already... the mods say "if it's funny and meant as a joke" then they let it slide. if it's not, then ban. also if it';s a veteran user with alot of posts etc; they can get away with it... it;s all part of the commandments
6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
All other things being equal, we will give preferential treatment to site members who have been with us longer (as reflected in their post count + length of time with us as a registered member). It�s a simple recognition of the quality of these people. Longevity and contribution are prized commodities around here. In a similiar vein, "known" pro/semi-pro players will also be treated with deference (yes, quite a few hang out here). Don't complain - these guys have earned it.
Remember: we ban little girly-kids all the time because they sign on thinking they can say and do whatever they want to whomever they want right from the get-go � just like they�re used to doing at other sites. That attitude won�t work here. That�s a promise. As far as new users are concerned (i.e. anyone with less than 500 or so quality posts to their name), this site is Holy Ground. The veterans are the users who�ve consistently shown respect to the site and to others and that�s why they�re still here. Show them some respect.
In practice, this policy means a user who has 1000+ posts may be able to get away with a few minor transgressions in etiquette with just a warning. If you�re at 50 posts and you try the same kind of stunt, then we may just ban you. Harsh? Yes. Unfair? Most definitely. But that�s the way life is. Learn to live with it.
This also means you should think twice before calling that guy with 5000+ posts a jackass. If the guy�s been with us that long, chances are YOU�RE the one being an idiot. Some battles are just not worth fighting � just move on.
I hadn't heard about this until this thread. It hurts me that this wasn't all over the news for a while. On the other hand I couldn't help but hear about the Duke rape scandal about 5 times. I think that's why I don't like watching the news.
On May 01 2007 17:55 useless wrote: Gemminy jillickers! Thanks for bringing this to our attention!
edit: Also, you grow distaste for an entire ethnic group over the actions of a handful of people? You mean to say this reinforces your underlying racist feelings, mirite?
Yes, I am serious. I'm a decent person who rarely, and I mean rarely gets angry at anything. But this was so disgusting. For a COUPLE OF MINUTES, I felt like going to any black person and telling them to go fuck themselves. I can't help the way I feel. And if you don't understand than congratu fucking lations, you grew up in a better neighborhood that was more culturally aware than I did.
Also, understand, I don't mean to be racist and I hope anyone who reads this article understands that it is FIVE PEOPLE, that any white man is just as capable (and there are cases where other races prove such) to do the same. Black has nothing to do with this but to help put light at certain facts I mentioned as such.
On May 01 2007 19:32 TheosEx wrote: If I ever saw these fuckers in real life, I would beat the shit out of them.
And you too lil.sis for being a dumbass. Who cares how the website looks?
"only atrocity is the gif" ???????????????
I'm sure you probably just said that to sound "cool" and to make a point (which was ridiculous and irrelevant), but still... Don't be a dumbass.
And if you were joking, you shouldn't be. What if this shit happened to your parents? Fuckface.
I'll probably get banned for "disrespecting vetern forum members" but I don't give a shit. You need to have some respect for the dead, especially from this kind of shit.
wow you sure showed me
lol
Good comeback. You need to get off your computer once in a while and experience the real world. Say stupid shit like that in real life. I guarantee you someone will kick your ass, no matter how smart/witty you think you sound.
On May 01 2007 19:32 TheosEx wrote: If I ever saw these fuckers in real life, I would beat the shit out of them.
And you too lil.sis for being a dumbass. Who cares how the website looks?
"only atrocity is the gif" ???????????????
I'm sure you probably just said that to sound "cool" and to make a point (which was ridiculous and irrelevant), but still... Don't be a dumbass.
And if you were joking, you shouldn't be. What if this shit happened to your parents? Fuckface.
I'll probably get banned for "disrespecting vetern forum members" but I don't give a shit. You need to have some respect for the dead, especially from this kind of shit.
wow you sure showed me
lol
Good comeback. You need to get off your computer once in a while and experience the real world. Say stupid shit like that in real life. I guarantee you someone will kick your ass, no matter how smart/witty you think you sound.
yah because clearly, lil.sis is the deluded one who isn't in touch with reality:
On March 22 2006 15:45 lil.sis wrote: Columbia, Chemical Engineering
im going to do my PhD at UT
On April 16 2007 06:01 TheosEx wrote: I'm going to become an accountant next year at Deloitte and Touche where I will seek to become a partner in the next decade or so... one of my friends recently made junior partner there. By then, I will be making millions. Anyways, then I will start my own businesses or just buy a couple of new ones that I think are promising.
It's actually a little bit more complicated and involves more details, but I'm not going to write a future autobiography
o rly, "just buying a couple of new businesses you think are promising" is a bit more complicated than that one paragraph? RLY???
I've often wondered if I was capable of killing someone. After reading what happened to these people I realize I could if someone I cared about got harmed.
On May 01 2007 21:45 Prodigy[x] wrote: I've often wondered if I was capable of killing someone. After reading what happened to these people I realize I could if someone I cared about got harmed.
this probably goes for most of us...your not alone prod =P
On May 01 2007 17:53 Ganfei wrote: Saw this before, it was mentioned by people pissed off by the Don Imus controversy
Bet your ass if 4 white guys did this to a black couple it'd be everywhere
no it wouldnt
why rape black people?
Blatantly racist; rape is about a show of power, not sex. Being black and poor means you're "raped" in this country.
I'm not sticking up for criminals, but these violent crimes are rooted in the socio-economics.
so if theyre raped in this country and are already poor, why would people who know theyre "superior" rape someone to show "power"? That is why it would not be a headline.
Like why beat up a little kid to show power? you know whos gonna win. Why rape black people when they have enough problems already?
On May 01 2007 19:46 jjun212 wrote: any race is capable of this
not a lot of people have been really hating on the south korean community after virginia tech, so that has really been respectful... since a lot of people expect a big hatred towards koreans after that incident
so i really think the black community as a whole should receive the same respect
p.s. those bastards... honestly.. i dont even know what to say, so fucking stupid
Receive respect??..... Folks need to wake the fuck up and realize that people are just people.
On May 01 2007 19:46 jjun212 wrote: any race is capable of this
not a lot of people have been really hating on the south korean community after virginia tech, so that has really been respectful... since a lot of people expect a big hatred towards koreans after that incident
so i really think the black community as a whole should receive the same respect
p.s. those bastards... honestly.. i dont even know what to say, so fucking stupid
Receive respect??..... Folks need to wake the fuck up and realize that people are just people.
Giving and receiving such respect is a step towards seeing all people as just people. In a more ideal world then ours race would not be the issue. However, to achieve this ideal and break down the racial barriers, we do first need to show respect to others. Otherwise we'll just be at each other's necks till the end of time.
On May 01 2007 18:01 fusionsdf wrote: Despite the gruesome nature of these murders, they received virtually no coverage in the mainstream media. Some commentators have said that this is due to a media bias which provides more coverage to cases in which whites allegedly attack blacks (such as the Duke Lacrosse case) than vice versa. [1][2] [3][4][5]
RenewAmerica is a grassroots organization that supports the "Declarationist" ideals of Alan Keyes. Its purpose, therefore, is to faithfully and courageously advance the cause of our nation's Founders.
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Wow, this article made me so fucking mad. Four out of five were men who committed this crime, and we all know that men make up far and away most of the murderers in society. Men are all animals. I wanted to go tell every man I saw to go fuck themselves.
Also, I noticed that all five of the perpetrators were under 30 years old. I wanted to go kick the crap out of every fourth-grader I could find. Those filthy young people are all criminals. We should lock them all up.
P.S. Men and gang members are synonymous. Also, young people are all vicious killers.
P.P.S. This case did get more media attention than most killings in the U.S. Anyone care to speculate whether it would have gotten more or less coverage if the perps and the victims were all black?
This is true as well to those asking about authenticity, there are plenty of other credible sources. I saw it on both Fark and Digg and they both linked different news organisations, but that was awhile back. (It would be a little strange if someone just made this up, no?) Also, I think that a lot of these arguments are backwards regarding rape, degradation, empowerment, socioeconomic factors et al, but I don't want to really write in response because I don't want to become embroiled in a big debate. I think you're oversimplifying quite a lot though.
On May 01 2007 19:32 TheosEx wrote: If I ever saw these fuckers in real life, I would beat the shit out of them.
And you too lil.sis for being a dumbass. Who cares how the website looks?
"only atrocity is the gif" ???????????????
I'm sure you probably just said that to sound "cool" and to make a point (which was ridiculous and irrelevant), but still... Don't be a dumbass.
And if you were joking, you shouldn't be. What if this shit happened to your parents? Fuckface.
I'll probably get banned for "disrespecting vetern forum members" but I don't give a shit. You need to have some respect for the dead, especially from this kind of shit.
OK DUE TO RECENT FEEDBACK I HAVE DECIDED TO FORMAT MY POSTS IN A WAY THAT WILL MAKE THE TL.NET IDIOT COMMUNITY MORE SYMPATHETIC TO MY VIEWPOINTS
THE RACIST LIBERAL MEDIA HAS SHOWN WAY TOO MUCH COMPASSION FOR THE KNUCKLE-DRAGGING PORCHMONKEYS THIS TIME!
THESE GOOD WHITE PEOPLE WERE VICIOUSLY MURDERED BY THESE KFC LOVING SAMBOS IN THE NAME OF RACIST HATE!
BUT WHY WONT THE MEDIA SPREAD THE WORD? BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID AT THE PUBLIC OUTLASH THAT WILL OCCUR WHEN ALL OF THE NEGROES ARE EXPOSED TO BE THE WEED SMOKING, WELFARE CHECK CASHING, ON 22 INCH CHROME ROLLING, FLAMBOYANT JEWELERY WEARING, MALT LIQUOR DRINKING MENACES TO SOCIETY THAT THEY ARE!
IT IS UP TO US TO STOP THIS RACIST HATE. AMERICA IS FIRST AND FOREMOST A NATION OF WHITE PEOPLE, AND I'LL BE DAMNED IF I'LL IDLY SIT BY WHILE THE JIGABOO LOVING BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL COMMUNISTS DRAG HER GLORY INTO THE GUTTER AND WE TURN INTO FRANCE
OK DUE TO RECENT FEEDBACK I HAVE DECIDED TO FORMAT MY POSTS IN A WAY THAT WILL MAKE THE TL.NET IDIOT COMMUNITY MORE SYMPATHETIC TO MY VIEWPOINTS
THE RACIST LIBERAL MEDIA HAS SHOWN WAY TOO MUCH COMPASSION FOR THE KNUCKLE-DRAGGING PORCHMONKEYS THIS TIME!
THESE GOOD WHITE PEOPLE WERE VICIOUSLY MURDERED BY THESE KFC LOVING SAMBOS IN THE NAME OF RACIST HATE!
BUT WHY WONT THE MEDIA SPREAD THE WORD? BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID AT THE PUBLIC OUTLASH THAT WILL OCCUR WHEN ALL OF THE NEGROES ARE EXPOSED TO BE THE WEED SMOKING, WELFARE CHECK CASHING, ON 22 INCH CHROME ROLLING, FLAMBOYANT JEWELERY WEARING, MALT LIQUOR DRINKING MENACES TO SOCIETY THAT THEY ARE!
IT IS UP TO US TO STOP THIS RACIST HATE. AMERICA IS FIRST AND FOREMOST A NATION OF WHITE PEOPLE, AND I'LL BE DAMNED IF I'LL IDLY SIT BY WHILE THE JIGABOO LOVING BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL COMMUNISTS DRAG HER GLORY INTO THE GUTTER AND WE TURN INTO FRANCE
Why the hell would u link this ridiuclous site in the OP? Im sure most sensible people were put off by the biased BS on this site. Its not like they dont agree that the crime is horrendous.
On May 02 2007 04:15 BlackJack wrote: I don't see how you can read this and still be against the death penalty.
Sure, let's just rape and torture them and after that we will cut off the mens penises and cut the girl's tits and vagina. After that we can send them to the gas chamber. That is justice if youre situational philosophy is "an eye for an eye", but how does that make you better? they killed, you killed. Both are killers.
On May 02 2007 04:15 BlackJack wrote: I don't see how you can read this and still be against the death penalty.
Sure, let's just rape and torture them and after that we will cut off the mens penises and cut the girl's tits and vagina. After that we can send them to the gas chamber. That is justice if youre situational philosophy is "an eye for an eye", but how does that make you better? they killed, you killed. Both are killers.
How does it make me better to legally execute convicted murderers than to brutally torture rape and murder completely innocent people?
On May 02 2007 04:15 BlackJack wrote: I don't see how you can read this and still be against the death penalty.
Sure, let's just rape and torture them and after that we will cut off the mens penises and cut the girl's tits and vagina. After that we can send them to the gas chamber. That is justice if youre situational philosophy is "an eye for an eye", but how does that make you better? they killed, you killed. Both are killers.
The world today is made mostly of pussies that dare not kill a man that has clearly stepped over the line. Instead they give him a life sentence in a prison where he receives food and care for the rest of his life without having to work at all and where he can read books, watch movies, and socialize with other people like him.
On May 02 2007 04:15 BlackJack wrote: I don't see how you can read this and still be against the death penalty.
Sure, let's just rape and torture them and after that we will cut off the mens penises and cut the girl's tits and vagina. After that we can send them to the gas chamber. That is justice if youre situational philosophy is "an eye for an eye", but how does that make you better? they killed, you killed. Both are killers.
How does it make me better to legally execute convicted murderers than to brutally torture rape and murder completely innocent people?
I suppose it's a matter of opinion.
No, its not, or at least it shouldn't be. Why do so many people have trouble with killing someone like the 4 black guys in question ? Give me a gun, i'd do it for free.
There are too many pussies in this world that wont eat meat because they feel sorry for the animals that go into a meal. Or that think that alcoholism is a disease; yeah.. right, a disease just like AIDS or Cancer... You bet.
On May 01 2007 19:32 TheosEx wrote: If I ever saw these fuckers in real life, I would beat the shit out of them.
And you too lil.sis for being a dumbass. Who cares how the website looks?
"only atrocity is the gif" ???????????????
I'm sure you probably just said that to sound "cool" and to make a point (which was ridiculous and irrelevant), but still... Don't be a dumbass.
And if you were joking, you shouldn't be. What if this shit happened to your parents? Fuckface.
I'll probably get banned for "disrespecting vetern forum members" but I don't give a shit. You need to have some respect for the dead, especially from this kind of shit.
wow you sure showed me
lol
Good comeback. You need to get off your computer once in a while and experience the real world. Say stupid shit like that in real life. I guarantee you someone will kick your ass, no matter how smart/witty you think you sound.
yah because clearly, lil.sis is the deluded one who isn't in touch with reality:
On April 16 2007 06:01 TheosEx wrote: I'm going to become an accountant next year at Deloitte and Touche where I will seek to become a partner in the next decade or so... one of my friends recently made junior partner there. By then, I will be making millions. Anyways, then I will start my own businesses or just buy a couple of new ones that I think are promising.
It's actually a little bit more complicated and involves more details, but I'm not going to write a future autobiography
o rly, "just buying a couple of new businesses you think are promising" is a bit more complicated than that one paragraph? RLY???
...What are you trying to get at really? You always do stupid shit like this. You think it makes you look all smart and witty. You nitpick at everyone's posts and take stupid shit from other threads and try to find "contradictions."
So basically, what you posted was... He's going to do his PhD at UT and what I want to do with my life. Good job. Thanks, now we all know.
While I don't doubt either you or lil.sis' intelligence (I'm sure you both are), you need to stop thinking you're one-of-a-kind. Yeah, you may be "top-class" at your universities and have grades, honors, etc. to back it all up... just remember that there are many more universities around the world with people just as smart or smarter than you. My point? You probably think what you said sounded all smart and the average TL.net joe might even find it "funny"... but it wasn't smart. It was probably one of the most ridiculous logical fallacies I've ever seen. But hey, if you're just going for the "laughs" be my guest.
On May 02 2007 04:15 BlackJack wrote: I don't see how you can read this and still be against the death penalty.
Sure, let's just rape and torture them and after that we will cut off the mens penises and cut the girl's tits and vagina. After that we can send them to the gas chamber. That is justice if youre situational philosophy is "an eye for an eye", but how does that make you better? they killed, you killed. Both are killers.
How does it make me better to legally execute convicted murderers than to brutally torture rape and murder completely innocent people?
I suppose it's a matter of opinion.
Yes it is. Sure you have somekind of legitimacy in doing it and it is different because you are trying to do a good deed. But in the end, it's practically the same thing. They killed, you killed.
The problem is the lack of a punishment for such a behaviour. Killing them does not make it fair like "they did bad, they got punished". And because there does not exist a good enough punishment that can balance with a murder, the only viable thing is to prevent this from happening. That can be done only with a proper education and enough involvement from the state institutions into the life of the citizen. Ameliorate the socio-economical conditions and this will be prevented.
Altought this will not eliminate the criminal instinct, it will surely lead to a diminuation of such cases. As Durkheim says, a small criminal rate is needed for the society to work out well and it cannot be prevented. Then let's keep it as low as possible.
Well, I don't think humans should have the power to decide if someone can live or not. How would it make the situation anymore fair to have these murderers murdered by someone else? It's almost hypocritical. I also believe that death is the easy way out. I'd rather be put to death than have to live in jail for the rest of my life, so I think it's fair to let these people rot in there themselves.
On May 02 2007 04:15 BlackJack wrote: I don't see how you can read this and still be against the death penalty.
oh bj dear lord please dont post anything this stupid because you're a smart fellow and if someone as smart as you can type and think something that stupid then it really makes me worried as far as the average fella goes
Although it is unfortunate, I believe these five particular people should be eliminated rather than locked up in a cell for multiple life sentences. When you can commit a crime like this, you simply shouldn't be considered human anymore. That's just my opinion, though. However, I am basing this on information from what I believe to be a particularly biased source, or a source with an agenda at the very least, so until all of the relevant facts are uncovered and looked at by unbiased sources, I hold my above statement to be true only if these poeple actually did do everything as stated in the source.
On May 02 2007 06:15 Lemonwalrus wrote: Although it is unfortunate, I believe these five particular people should be eliminated rather than locked up in a cell for multiple life sentences. When you can commit a crime like this, you simply shouldn't be considered human anymore. That's just my opinion, though. However, I am basing this on information from what I believe to be a particularly biased source, or a source with an agenda at the very least, so until all of the relevant facts are uncovered and looked at by unbiased sources, I hold my above statement to be true only if these poeple actually did do everything as stated in the source.
I strongly i agree with you.
I was afraid of posting on this thread because when i read the story i felt extremely nauseated. i still have the same feeling and i knew i shouldn't have read it but i was eagered.
On May 02 2007 05:45 BlackJack wrote: Because people that don't think the same as you are stupid?
dude I specifically stated that you are smart despite thinking the opposite of me so this is as far off as your reply could possibly be.. however, you stated that this one incident is a reason for you not understanding how people can be opposed to the death penalty. the fact is, I don't disagree with any person thinking these people deserve to die. I agree with that. It's just not a reason to create an institution with the power of killing. revenge has no place in a justice system and revenge is the only arguement for capital punishment.
that's fucking nuts!! more surprising is that the media didn't cover it in depth? i would have thought they'd have a field day with this kind of thing. a piece of the puzzle is missing that's for sure.
On May 02 2007 05:04 fuckNiggers wrote: Fucking niggers deserve to die.
Someone please put this butt wipe out of his misery... He's clearly smurfing as someone else. Use your seasoned account if you wanna say such things you cotton balls.
well to add my two cents ive been watching a lot of prison documentaries on msnbc investigates and uh like 70-90 percent of the guys in there are black and the rest are mexican and a small percentage are white. so whats that tell you?
On May 02 2007 07:24 stuthedog wrote: well to add my two cents ive been watching a lot of prison documentaries on msnbc investigates and uh like 70-90 percent of the guys in there are black and the rest are mexican and a small percentage are white. so whats that tell you?
That you are probably not very smart, if you think race correlates to commission of violent crime BECAUSE of said race.
On May 02 2007 07:28 Liquid`Drone wrote: that there are structural differences between how whites blacks and hispanics are treated by the justice system?
black people are far more likely to go to jail for the same crime a white person does.
And that the social causes of crime are more prevalant among the black population.
On May 02 2007 07:24 stuthedog wrote: well to add my two cents ive been watching a lot of prison documentaries on msnbc investigates and uh like 70-90 percent of the guys in there are black and the rest are mexican and a small percentage are white. so whats that tell you?
That you are probably not very smart, if you think race correlates to commission of violent crime BECAUSE of said race.
or maybe black people just commit more crime in the u.s.?
while this is actually undoubtely true (regarding violent crime and crime that has an obvious culprit anyway, another fact that inflates the statistics), what do you think the reason for this is?
I didn't say that that wasn't statistically true, I just meant that your indication that it is because they are black, and not due to other reasons such as what Kwark and Liquid'Drone brought up, is a logical fallacy.
On May 02 2007 08:14 Liquid`Drone wrote: while this is actually undoubtely true (regarding violent crime and crime that has an obvious culprit anyway, another fact that inflates the statistics), what do you think the reason for this is?
hip hop culture that has become black culture, creates cycle of poverty, crime then committed by blacks reinforcing and sometimes creating perception (imo is accurate if many blacks are in jail) that blacks are dangerous, creating more poverty etc. then they shove the blame on whites especially and "the system" not taking responsibility.
a huge offender imo is culture. look at asians and how well theyve done in the u.s. and even hispanics who make more on average than blacks and both of these groups' immigrant populations have been here less than blacks. these two have a strong work ethic and emphasis on education and it shows in their incomes. while blacks thinks if they get educated theyre "selling out" and becoming an "uncle tom" which is fucking bullshit.
man, i want blacks to succeed cuz then there'd be less crime and the u.s. would be a happier place but this is the world we live in. i have hope that al sharpton and rev jackson will actually do some good by pressuring music labels to stop promoting gang culture.
On May 02 2007 08:17 Lemonwalrus wrote: I didn't say that that wasn't statistically true, I just meant that your indication that it is because they are black, and not due to other reasons such as what Kwark and Liquid'Drone brought up, is a logical fallacy.
i didnt say because theyre black they commit crime as if it were built into their dna. but the statement that "blacks commit most violent crime" and "comprise most prison population" is an accurate observation.
Perhaps I missunderstood your post on the last page, but that is what it seemed like you were getting at, at least from my perspective. If I did missunderstand you, I apologize. But I still think that you are making generalizations that although perhaps statistically hinted at, are not in fact the root causes of the problem. I am relieved however to see that you are debating this logically, and therefore regret the little jab at you in my first response to you, sorry about that.
On May 02 2007 08:28 Lemonwalrus wrote: Perhaps I missunderstood your post on the last page, but that is what it seemed like you were getting at, at least from my perspective. If I did missunderstand you, I apologize. But I still think that you are making generalizations that although perhaps statistically hinted at, are not in fact the root causes of the problem. I am relieved however to see that you are debating this logically, and therefore regret the little jab at you in my first response to you, sorry about that.
ya all good i sometimes just post without thinking much about it so im sure i prob did come off as you said i did. i have no problems with blacks just the ones that commit crime and ya they say that any given time 1/3 of the black male population is in jail (heard it on cnn). so i dont think im wrong when i have biases and fears based on that. then theres talking to the ones into hip hop culture. it's all about appearing tough and when the youth try to emulate that, it makes people like me unwilling to talk to them and get to know them because of the immaturity and danger of their posturing. id feel the same way if it was a white nazi, mexican cholo or asian gangster and even those who are wannabes (as if i can tell the difference) so no i dont think im racist.
On May 01 2007 17:54 fusionsdf wrote: Why would you distaste black people because of this? That doesnt make any sense
Are you serious?
Blacks aren't the only race who do this type of thing you know? It's done all the time in The middle east(Other countries too). Also whites raped and murderd inslaved and freed blacks back in the day. And your judging an entire race unfairly over acts of a few, that's equivalent to me developing a hatred towards asians because of the act of one person (VT shooting)... stupid in my opinion...
Look at the blatant facts. Among the many many events that go on in our daily lives, there's this ONE incident where 5 black men commit this atrocious crime. As far as race goes...yeah, so? They were black, it just happened to be that way (although statistically, that puts them at a disadvantage).
I think the real threat lies beyond the race, but what's causing this kind of hatred. It may be just one case of psychotic individuals who had beef with white people. Same with the V-tech incident. It was ONE case of a crazy korean student who had issues beyond normal human problems.
Also, I do realize that there may be multiple cases of such incidents as this and Virginia, but the nation-hating is stupid and is just an excuse, something people express their hatred through because they need to blame something, or in this case, someone. Do these incidents happen every day? Fuck no. If such were the case, then I'd truly be worried about the mental state of the general population.
this is only a racial affair if one were to comment on racial tensions or whatnot, that it happened isn't due to them being black or whatnot,although you could tie into the blackness the whole social status or whatnot it is that gets tied into these things and have some arguable causal relation to the affair but that would not be a racial argument anyway.
On May 02 2007 07:28 Liquid`Drone wrote: that there are structural differences between how whites blacks and hispanics are treated by the justice system?
black people are far more likely to go to jail for the same crime a white person does.
just because of who they (the animals) are doesn't give them an excuse to do what they did blah blah poverty blah blah gangs blah blah shitty childhood experiences blah blah I Don't care. There are NO excuses. "eye for an eye" would be a thumb up, but better to set an example by doing double damage and length that way people who look to commit a crime will more likely think twice before doing it.
What the fuck? This happened in January?!? This is fucking outrageous! Why!? What was the motive?! Was it really because they were white?! Oh that reminds me, the source link in the original post is biased at the least. Coulter writes on it.
i honestly can't even fathom the thought process of these people while they were doing all these acts
seriously, i mean just killing a person is one thing, but i can never understand what is going on in ppl's minds when they torture and treat ppl while they are alive in cases like this...
i've been trying to post this reply for a while but couldn't cuz i was lost for words...so fucking fucked up what they did.
they raped the guy several times, cut his penis off while he and his girl watch, burn him and then shoot him several times...what the hell??? like while doing all this, were they like laughing and enjoying it?? were they angry? why the fuck do ppl do shit like this? i'm not askin anyone, i'm just tryin to understand..i mean its one thing if one person committed this crime, but 4 or 5? so all 5 of them felt this way?? I'm very disgusted by this, seriously, and very angry.
there needs to be more explanation of why they did it and a better source. i'm sure it's been mentioned at least twice before but i only read the first page, associating black people with murder after this or hitler with vegetarianism doesn't make sense. a natural emotional occurance maybe, but this isn't a case where emotions outweigh rationallity.
The animals pictured above "allegedly" raped Christopher Newsom, cut off his penis, set him on fire and fatally shot him several times while they forced his girlfriend, Channon Christian, to watch it happen.
An even more cruel fate awaited her...
Channon Christian, was beaten and gang-raped in many ways for four days by all of them, while they took turns urinating on her. Then they cut off her breast and put chemicals in her mouth ... then murdered her.
From the link from the first post. This is about 30% truth and 70% lies/sensationalism. I checked some sources, there's no evidence of cutting off of penis/breast, chemicals. There is also no known time period, so they could've shot the kid and then set the body on fire for disposal reasons. The girl might have just been dead for *three* days. That being said, this is still a horrifying case of human capacity.
On May 01 2007 17:53 Ganfei wrote: Saw this before, it was mentioned by people pissed off by the Don Imus controversy
Bet your ass if 4 white guys did this to a black couple it'd be everywhere
Similarly, in 2003, I remember watching a white girl become descended upon by a black crowd and brutally beaten (wrong place, wrong time; black rally of some sort). It received very little coverage, and was aired very briefly on local news.
It's really amazing how news is filtered by the culture of political correctness. Filthy.
edit: Also, does anybody remember this incident? Me neither.
anyone who is not against the death penalty is for murder
I would NEVER want someone to be killed, even if he did the same things to my brother and sister that these guys did. I would try as hard as possible to calm down my emotions, because seeing the person being killed will bring me nothing at all..
The animals pictured above "allegedly" raped Christopher Newsom, cut off his penis, set him on fire and fatally shot him several times while they forced his girlfriend, Channon Christian, to watch it happen.
An even more cruel fate awaited her...
Channon Christian, was beaten and gang-raped in many ways for four days by all of them, while they took turns urinating on her. Then they cut off her breast and put chemicals in her mouth ... then murdered her.
From the link from the first post. This is about 30% truth and 70% lies/sensationalism. I checked some sources, there's no evidence of cutting off of penis/breast, chemicals. There is also no known time period, so they could've shot the kid and then set the body on fire for disposal reasons. The girl might have just been dead for *three* days. That being said, this is still a horrifying case of human capacity.
The female of the group came forward to police saying that she witnessed the woman being held and bound while they "cleaned" her mouth with chemicals. Another FBI investigator said that they kept the girl alive for some days.
Don't know where you checked around, but you clearly missed a lot.
How does it make any sense to speak of such details as skin color? The important (and sad) fact about this crime was how atrocious it was. Perhaps some background informatioun about the personalities of those 5 people could have been interesting too. But why bother mentioning absolute useless details such as hair colour, weight, skin color, ...? I blame some media for throwing fuel into the fire. And unfortunately there will always be some people who will read 5 black people instead of 5 mentally ill people.
On May 01 2007 18:13 Dustin wrote: This is fucking disgusting. Fuck Dendra and lil.sis above all for being fucking idiots.
Edit: and yes they were Animals...look at the shit they did.
roflmao they are not fucking animals, animals wouldnt do such thing. in fact, it looks more humanish, thx.
Yes, all animals behave the way they do in The Lion King. Wake the fuck up. Animals (carnivores) separate and slaughter the weak without any regret or remorse whatsoever. How is that any different from what these guys did?
Animals dont rape and kill other animals for no reason. If an animal kills an animal, it fits into the catagories of self-defense, killing for food, territorial/instintual fighting, etc.
On May 01 2007 18:13 Dustin wrote: This is fucking disgusting. Fuck Dendra and lil.sis above all for being fucking idiots.
Edit: and yes they were Animals...look at the shit they did.
roflmao they are not fucking animals, animals wouldnt do such thing. in fact, it looks more humanish, thx.
Yes, all animals behave the way they do in The Lion King. Wake the fuck up. Animals (carnivores) separate and slaughter the weak without any regret or remorse whatsoever. How is that any different from what these guys did?
On May 01 2007 18:13 Dustin wrote: This is fucking disgusting. Fuck Dendra and lil.sis above all for being fucking idiots.
Edit: and yes they were Animals...look at the shit they did.
roflmao they are not fucking animals, animals wouldnt do such thing. in fact, it looks more humanish, thx.
Yes, all animals behave the way they do in The Lion King. Wake the fuck up. Animals (carnivores) separate and slaughter the weak without any regret or remorse whatsoever. How is that any different from what these guys did?
Animals kill othr animals in order to survive and dominate, nothing more. Sadism is a human only behaviour.
this is so incredibly rediculous, like what the fuck how can people be that fucked up to do something like that to another person? if people are that messed up in the head they shouldn't be allowed in public with reg people.
On May 01 2007 18:16 MYM.Testie wrote: You're right. I shouldn't have read this if I was in a good mood. Fucked my mood right up.
If this is real, fucking burn these pieces of shit. Anything but death for these fuckers is too good. Death is too good too, but atleast it keeps them from ever doing something like this again.
I didn't check the website* fake? real? o_O)?
well you're no different from "animals" if you wish death upon them.
I'm surprised conservative mainstream media like Fox news, conservative talk radio didn't pick this story up. I want to know why. They are biased, but at least I expected them to dig up and highlight tabloid and inflammatory stories of this sort that mainstream media lets slide. Is there an a hidden rule that even they aren't allowed to report this kind of story?
To those who asked, it is indeed a real story. Apparently some station in Tennessee covered it a bit: http://www.wbir.com/news/regional/story.aspx?storyid=41276. I'm sure there are more links out there, maybe some that go into more detail, but at the very least we know that these murders did happen.
If what the first link said is true about how these people were murdered then that is incredibly fucked up-- well beyond the point of the "normal" murders that happen. I understand that the media can't actually cover every murder that happens, but this one should have been covered simply for the severity of it.
Tetsuo_AKIRA: Your posts suck, and so does your sig. Please just leave this place instead of wasting the mod's time for a ban.
On May 03 2007 05:58 HaiVan wrote: I think black people in the US are much more racist to white people then the opposite.
I Think you are very wrong
I've seen it suggested by black people that blacks are generally more racist towards whites than vice versa. Also, it's far less taboo to be racist and black than be racist and white (in the US), that's a fact.
On May 02 2007 16:12 PissedOffEmo wrote: well you're no different from "animals" if you wish death upon them.
wishing death for random people, and wishing death for people who brutally torture others for little reason are obviously two different things. I can't believe multiple people in this thread are equating the two... you guys must really like mounting a moral high horse.
If I punch you in the nuts as hard as I can for particular reason, and you punch me back in the shoulder... I think at THAT point you might realize that even though we both punched each other, the actions weren't even fucking close to equal.
There's no exception for wishing death on someone. No one can judge who deserves death and who doesn't and no one deserves the right to take another's life regardless of how strongly you feel they deserve it.
On May 03 2007 05:58 HaiVan wrote: I think black people in the US are much more racist to white people then the opposite.
I Think you are very wrong
I've seen it suggested by black people that blacks are generally more racist towards whites than vice versa. Also, it's far less taboo to be racist and black than be racist and white (in the US), that's a fact.
awesome. anecdote followed by statement declaring "this is a fact."
wow thats really disgusting ;\ i feel bad for them and wtf why werent those people punished severly. wel i havent rtead it all and im hoping they are so ugh oh and akh-gosu go fucking watch some more VODs and tell yourself how much better you are then pro gamers please. ask your parents or whatever to totally block out teamliquid.net so you dont have to fucking embarrass yourself with your post. k? thanks
*note for anyone that doesn't know about the murders: these crimes happened in january of 2007. this thread was originally posted in '07 as well. the slayings and trials were not widely reported by major media outlets, and their lack of exposure has been a controversial topic among the seemingly small portion of people who know about them. personally i think the lack of immediate exposure from credible sources has resulted in the misinformation regarding the exact details of the slayings.
the defendants in this case (which were already sentenced) are getting a retrial. the decision was made on dec. 1, 2011. the presiding judge was addicted to, i think, prescription drugs at the time.
Channon Gail Christian, 21, and Hugh Christopher Newsom, Jr., 23, were a couple from Knoxville, Tennessee. They were both raped, tortured and murdered after being kidnapped early on the morning of January 7, 2007. Their vehicle had been carjacked.[1][2] Five suspects were arrested and charged in the case. The grand jury indicted four of the suspects on counts of murder, robbery, kidnapping, rape and theft. Three of those arrested, Letalvis D. Cobbins, Lemaricus Davidson and George Thomas, have been convicted on multiple charges including several counts of felony murder. After a jury trial Lemaricus Davidson was sentenced to death by lethal injection and Letalvis Cobbins and George Thomas were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Vanessa Coleman has been convicted of facilitating the crimes and sentenced to 53 years in prison, and Eric Dewayne Boyd has been convicted of federal charges as accessory after the fact to carjacking and sentenced to 18 years in prison.[3] On December 1st, 2011, new trials were granted to the defendants due to drug abuse by the presiding Judge.
In December 2011, the convictions of Lemaricus Davidson, Letalvis Cobbins, George Thomas, and Vanessa Coleman were overturned by a special judge who ruled that the presiding judge at their trials, Richard Baumgartner, was intoxicated at the time. The four defendants will be facing new trials.
On December 10 2011 02:46 taintmachine wrote: the defendants in this case (which were already sentenced) are getting a retrial. the decision was made on dec. 1, 2011. the presiding judge was addicted to, i think, prescription drugs at the time.
Channon Gail Christian, 21, and Hugh Christopher Newsom, Jr., 23, were a couple from Knoxville, Tennessee. They were both raped, tortured and murdered after being kidnapped early on the morning of January 7, 2007. Their vehicle had been carjacked.[1][2] Five suspects were arrested and charged in the case. The grand jury indicted four of the suspects on counts of murder, robbery, kidnapping, rape and theft. Three of those arrested, Letalvis D. Cobbins, Lemaricus Davidson and George Thomas, have been convicted on multiple charges including several counts of felony murder. After a jury trial Lemaricus Davidson was sentenced to death by lethal injection and Letalvis Cobbins and George Thomas were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Vanessa Coleman has been convicted of facilitating the crimes and sentenced to 53 years in prison, and Eric Dewayne Boyd has been convicted of federal charges as accessory after the fact to carjacking and sentenced to 18 years in prison.[3] On December 1st, 2011, new trials were granted to the defendants due to drug abuse by the presiding Judge.
In December 2011, the convictions of Lemaricus Davidson, Letalvis Cobbins, George Thomas, and Vanessa Coleman were overturned by a special judge who ruled that the presiding judge at their trials, Richard Baumgartner, was intoxicated at the time. The four defendants will be facing new trials.
This one of those times where I'd be fine if they were all shot and that was the end of it. Seriously sick shit they did.
I can't imagine anyone, of any race, not being appalled by this.
Edit: Well, when you read the Snopes article, it just clarifies that most of the details of the mutilation didn't happen and it was 'just' rape and murder. Still disturbing though.
sounds like something out of American Psycho, the book, not the movie. the book is far more brutal. i have to agree that if white people had done this to black people it would have gotten much more attention as a hate crime.
On December 10 2011 03:01 Defacer wrote: I can't imagine anyone, of any race, not being appalled by this.
Edit: Well, when you read the Snopes article, it just clarifies that most of the details of the mutilation didn't happen and it was 'just' rape and murder. Still disturbing though.
"and killed her by binding her inside several plastic garbage bags and leaving her to suffocate [but did not shoot her or set her body on fire as they did with Newsom]"
Distate for blacks?Are you fucking retarded?In cases like Fritz,where he kept his daughter locked up for years, did you feel disgusted about white people?
On December 10 2011 02:58 eXeJJu wrote: how people can even think about doing this kind of thing is beyond my understanding, i hope the couple and their family were able to find some peace.
Well this happened to a couple my brother knew in Hamilton a couple years ago too. Very similar except it lasted only one night. Gang members barged in. Raped the girlfriend and then brutally killed both of them in the process of robbing them. X-X
I cannot believe they're going to give them another trial. Sickening.
On December 10 2011 02:46 taintmachine wrote: the defendants in this case (which were already sentenced) are getting a retrial. the decision was made on dec. 1, 2011. the presiding judge was addicted to, i think, prescription drugs at the time.
Channon Gail Christian, 21, and Hugh Christopher Newsom, Jr., 23, were a couple from Knoxville, Tennessee. They were both raped, tortured and murdered after being kidnapped early on the morning of January 7, 2007. Their vehicle had been carjacked.[1][2] Five suspects were arrested and charged in the case. The grand jury indicted four of the suspects on counts of murder, robbery, kidnapping, rape and theft. Three of those arrested, Letalvis D. Cobbins, Lemaricus Davidson and George Thomas, have been convicted on multiple charges including several counts of felony murder. After a jury trial Lemaricus Davidson was sentenced to death by lethal injection and Letalvis Cobbins and George Thomas were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Vanessa Coleman has been convicted of facilitating the crimes and sentenced to 53 years in prison, and Eric Dewayne Boyd has been convicted of federal charges as accessory after the fact to carjacking and sentenced to 18 years in prison.[3] On December 1st, 2011, new trials were granted to the defendants due to drug abuse by the presiding Judge.
In December 2011, the convictions of Lemaricus Davidson, Letalvis Cobbins, George Thomas, and Vanessa Coleman were overturned by a special judge who ruled that the presiding judge at their trials, Richard Baumgartner, was intoxicated at the time. The four defendants will be facing new trials.
This one of those times where I'd be fine if they were all shot and that was the end of it. Seriously sick shit they did.
Yep. Give me a gun and I'd do it myself. Enraging story. Some people don't deserve a second chance.
To be perfectly honest, I'm glad the news media didn't cover this. Any time the media gets involved in a criminal case, it just becomes a circus. Look how long the media spent covering the Casey Anthony case. It was not a national issue, and so should not have been reported on by national media. Further, there is absolutely no way for anyone accused of a crime to get a fair trial once the news media gets involved. Once the media starts reporting on a case, there is so much biased information out there that it becomes impossible to find unbiased jurors.
I agree though that these criminals are completely guilty. The death penalty is too soft a punishment. They should all get life in a dungeon. Make'em suffer.
Calling these people animals is an insult..for the animals. What the fuck really, this is probably the worst type of crime i've ever heard of in terms of methods.Only systematic torture beats this.
Bury them under a termites nest and erase their names from any record.
On December 10 2011 03:33 Bleak wrote: What the fuck?
Fixed. Holy fuck x.x
This is some of the most brutal stuff I've read in a looooong time.
Fixed. And it wasn't " 'just' rape and murder." Even according to snopes, the man was sodomized then shot, while the woman suffered terrible terrible damage before being *suffocated* to death.
On December 10 2011 04:00 Barrin wrote: I'm all for justice and stuff... but honestly there is a line where our society can't stomach the kind of justice (assuming you can call it that) that these people deserve. That line has been crossed.
Someone as sick or even sicker than these people should have their way with them IMO. Kill two birds with one stone: the even sicker person gets their fix on people that are not innocent, and the sick people get punished the way they should.
Our society wouldn't let this happen, but if I was allowed to, had to, and had the tools to, there is a beast in me that would punish these sick fucks myself in extreme medieval fashion and feel completely justified (perhaps with less sleep anyway though). Hate me if you want, call me just as bad as them if you want (I'm not), but I'm the kind of person who would put up with the hate to do this if nobody else would.
The beast in me is more than ready to prove it, but the rest of me hopes I never have to. Good thing I'll probably never have to. Partially because there are already plenty of other people who would, so I'm not gonna waste any more of my time thinking about this, and there's probably no reason for you to either. You don't need to be religious to know that dwelling on the bad will probably do the opposite of helping you. It's enough to know that this kind of stuff happens all the time without being confronted about it IMO.
Totally agree with you. I wish The Punisher was real.
Good lord shoot the lot of them. It shouldn't even be open to debate. I'm normally slow to formulate my opinion when death is concerned but I've seen all I need to.
On December 10 2011 03:47 Cattivik wrote: Calling these people animals is an insult..for the animals. What the fuck really, this is probably the worst type of crime i've ever heard of in terms of methods.Only systematic torture beats this.
Bury them under a termites nest and erase their names from any record.
^ This. I come back to TL after a break and this is what I find...I can't BELIEVE they're getting a retrial.
Well there's nothing wrong with a retrial. The judge was intoxicated during the trial and that is unfair. There will be no chance of them going free and they will go back to jail- hopefully this time they will all be sentenced to death.
On December 10 2011 04:00 Barrin wrote: I'm all for justice and stuff... but honestly there is a line where our society can't stomach the kind of justice (assuming you can call it that) that these people deserve. That line has been crossed.
Someone as sick or even sicker than these people should have their way with them IMO. Kill two birds with one stone: the even sicker person gets their fix on people that are not innocent, and the sick people get punished the way they should.
Our society wouldn't let this happen, but if I was allowed to, had to, and had the tools to, there is a beast in me that would punish these sick fucks myself in extreme medieval fashion and feel completely justified (perhaps with less sleep anyway though). Hate me if you want, call me just as bad as them if you want (I'm not), but I'm the kind of person who would put up with the hate to do this if nobody else would.
The beast in me is more than ready to prove it, but the rest of me hopes I never have to. Good thing I'll probably never have to. Partially because there are already plenty of other people who would, so I'm not gonna waste any more of my time thinking about this, and there's probably no reason for you to either. You don't need to be religious to know that dwelling on the bad will probably do the opposite of helping you. It's enough to know that this kind of stuff happens all the time without being confronted about it IMO.
Nothing done to these people will bring back the victims or give their family's peace of mind. But a life in prison certainly doesn't demonstrate to the perpetrators the horrors the two victims suffered for their last several hours of life.
So I agree. There is nothing particularly ignoble about doing similar things to the perpetrators that they did to the victims. The only issue is it involve state's endorsement of such behavior, even if it's in retaliation against such behavior in the first place. And what sane person would rape and torture another person, even if it was punishment for a crime?
I guess I would support vigilantes that go around raping rapists, if it comes down to it though. Payback in turn. And I would't mind it if said vigilantes got away with it.
Ehh, what society is improved by the inclusion of these five murderers? Seriously.. Could you consider for me a limited use of the death penalty in only this level of heinous crimes?
On December 10 2011 04:13 WallieP wrote: Only in the U S A
=\ How would you feel if every time a tragedy happened someone came by and posted ONLY IN NL.
Well.. I woke up from an 8 hour sleep in god knows how long, and this hits me in the face . Shouldn't have read it... this is downright disgusting and inhuman.
It's one thing for some crazy jackasses to just murder some random person. But all that other stuff they did as well? What the hell is wrong with them. The fact that there's a retrial, (or rather, the fact that on day 1 of the first trial, the verdict was anything but immediate execution), is just disgusting. Consciously and deliberately doing something like that is practically inhuman. The only resolution is execution. I don't care if people are going to flame me for having said that, but this is one of the most fucked up things I've heard about, and it's not like it's made-up or exaggerated at that. wtf
In December 2011, the convictions of Lemaricus Davidson, Letalvis Cobbins, George Thomas, and Vanessa Coleman were overturned by a special judge who ruled that the presiding judge at their trials, Richard Baumgartner, was intoxicated at the time. The four defendants will be facing new trials.
On December 10 2011 04:15 Nos- wrote: Well.. I woke up from an 8 hour sleep in god knows how long, and this hits me in the face . Shouldn't have read it... this is downright disgusting and inhuman.
Sadly, i'd say this is also part of being human, as i don't know of any kind of animal that would do such a thing...but the concept of justice is also a human thing, and the only "justice" i'd approve here is a shotgun directly at their face.
On December 10 2011 04:16 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: It's one thing for some crazy jackasses to just murder some random person. But all that other stuff they did as well? What the hell is wrong with them. The fact that there's a retrial, (or rather, the fact that on day 1 of the first trial, the verdict was anything but immediate execution), is just disgusting. Consciously and deliberately doing something like that is practically inhuman. The only resolution is execution. I don't care if people are going to flame me for having said that, but this is one of the most fucked up things I've heard about, and it's not like it's made-up or exaggerated at that. wtf
It's only natural to feel thirst for revenge, why should anyone flame you for it? Revenge has no place in the justice system, however.
UGH.. I live in Knoxville and go to UT and this has been such a nightmare for this family. Now they have to relive it over again. I watched most of the trials as they happened. I don't know how this isn't national/international news about the retrial. Not that I particularly want it to be though. Both the Christian and Newsom families do not deserve to have to relive hell like this. Such a travesty.
On December 10 2011 04:16 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: It's one thing for some crazy jackasses to just murder some random person. But all that other stuff they did as well? What the hell is wrong with them. The fact that there's a retrial, (or rather, the fact that on day 1 of the first trial, the verdict was anything but immediate execution), is just disgusting. Consciously and deliberately doing something like that is practically inhuman. The only resolution is execution. I don't care if people are going to flame me for having said that, but this is one of the most fucked up things I've heard about, and it's not like it's made-up or exaggerated at that. wtf
It's only natural to feel thirst for revenge, why should anyone flame you for it? Revenge has no place in the justice system, however.
It's true. But what they did is unforgivable. I don't even think it's so much about revenge. Justice would be these people (I say people but they've lost the right to even be CALLED people, ne?) experiencing the same pain that they inflicted on that poor couple - although you may call me hypocritical; as much as I say this I would never have the stomach to brutalize someone like that unless I saw the crime happening in front of me...aie, I hope something like that never happens...
I was always fundamentally against death penalty and I never thought that I anything could justify corporal punishment in my opinion, but this really makes me rethink my position.
Even with racial disadvantages you can't excuse behaviour like this. "Well, they've been discriminated all their life, so the victims had it coming to them" just is no kind of valid argument... Not having equal job opportunities and gangraping and torturing a young couple for days just isn't comparable.
Call me naive, but I'm really sad and disappointed that such evil even exists.
Pretty crazy stuff, my town went pretty crazy when all this happened. Knoxville is pretty chill but this pissed a lot of people off. The fucked up thing is that I remember one of the defendants taunting the father of the murdered girl. I'm just happy I'm not the judge presiding over this, it would be sam jackson's speech from pulp fiction before the sentence of death.
On December 10 2011 04:16 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: It's one thing for some crazy jackasses to just murder some random person. But all that other stuff they did as well? What the hell is wrong with them. The fact that there's a retrial, (or rather, the fact that on day 1 of the first trial, the verdict was anything but immediate execution), is just disgusting. Consciously and deliberately doing something like that is practically inhuman. The only resolution is execution. I don't care if people are going to flame me for having said that, but this is one of the most fucked up things I've heard about, and it's not like it's made-up or exaggerated at that. wtf
It's only natural to feel thirst for revenge, why should anyone flame you for it? Revenge has no place in the justice system, however.
Hmm, revenge is one thing. Removing cancer from the face of the earth is another. Even if these people have contributed/could contribute to society somehow, what they have already done says to me that it's not worth it to give them that chance. Imagine if one of them doesn't get the death sentence or life in jail and does this again. I can't even express in words how severe of a failure our justice system would be if that happened.
On December 10 2011 04:27 logikly wrote: If they are indeed found to be guilty then they should be put to death.
If you watched the trials, they were an ABSOLUTE SLAM DUNK. Absolutely no doubt about it. Very, very guilty. No "got the wrong guys" in this case.
They will all get the same sentencing as in the first trials, I'm very sure of it. Very sure. It's just the families has to go through this fucking trial again. The girl's dad sat in the courtroom staring at the fucksticks each time and rocks back and forth, never taking his eyes off of them. It's disturbing and painful to watch.
"There is nothing inhumane or animalistic about the death penalty. The concept of holding one responsible and delivering punishment for an act that is not in the immediacy of its occurrence is intrinsically human for its hindsight and attention to the past and its influence on the future. However, this does not make it right or good but simply, and most assuredly, human."- anonymous
That being said, I support the death penalty. Particularly in this case. However the racial connotations that people are trying to apply make me equally upset. A crime is a crime. Saying you did it because you don't like a certain race and then taking that into account outside of "intent" and categorizing it as it's own variety of crime seems to me a distortion of justice.
If someone commits a heinous act such as this against another human being then you've already settled the matter of intent and that's as far as I need to know. Hate crimes and the whole idea of them, in my opinion, undermine the full gravity of crimes by differentiating between when a white guy shoots a white guy, and when a KKK member shoots a black guy. In the end both acts are equally despicable for the same reasons: Someone was murdered. THAT should be all that's important.
I try thinking about this, and despite how wrong it may seem, revenge is the only thing that comes to mind. If I was the father, I simply can't see myself NOT taking the matter into my own hands
On December 10 2011 04:24 kafkaesque wrote: I was always fundamentally against death penalty and I never thought that I anything could justify corporal punishment in my opinion, but this really makes me rethink my position.
Even with racial disadvantages you can't excuse behaviour like this. "Well, they've been discriminated all their life, so the victims had it coming to them" just is no kind of valid argument... Not having equal job opportunities and gangraping and torturing a young couple for days just isn't comparable.
Call me naive, but I'm really sad and disappointed that such evil even exists.
Why should we give up otherwise valid principles just because there are a few exceptions? I refuse to lose some of my humanity because of these people.
On December 10 2011 04:16 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: It's one thing for some crazy jackasses to just murder some random person. But all that other stuff they did as well? What the hell is wrong with them. The fact that there's a retrial, (or rather, the fact that on day 1 of the first trial, the verdict was anything but immediate execution), is just disgusting. Consciously and deliberately doing something like that is practically inhuman. The only resolution is execution. I don't care if people are going to flame me for having said that, but this is one of the most fucked up things I've heard about, and it's not like it's made-up or exaggerated at that. wtf
It's only natural to feel thirst for revenge, why should anyone flame you for it? Revenge has no place in the justice system, however.
It's true. But what they did is unforgivable. I don't even think it's so much about revenge. Justice would be these people (I say people but they've lost the right to even be CALLED people, ne?) experiencing the same pain that they inflicted on that poor couple - although you may call me hypocritical; as much as I say this I would never have the stomach to brutalize someone like that unless I saw the crime happening in front of me...aie, I hope something like that never happens...
Justice is that they experience the same pain? That type of "an eye for an eye"-justice worked in the dark ages, its hardly something that can be applied in any civilized society. If we did the same to them, how are we any better?
Re-Trial might be a good thing. I hope they all get executed now. Maybe they can find something for the guy who would get out after only 18 years. No one who does that kind of thing has any right to keep on living.
On December 10 2011 04:34 Kimaker wrote: "There is nothing inhumane or animalistic about the death penalty. The concept of holding one responsible and delivering punishment for an act that is not in the immediacy of its occurrence is intrinsically human for its hindsight and attention to the past and its influence on the future. However, this does not make it right or good but simply, and most assuredly, human."- anonymous
There is no separation between human and "animalistic", we are evolved animals after all. That does not mean we should embrace everything that is in our nature.
What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
On December 10 2011 04:27 logikly wrote: If they are indeed found to be guilty then they should be put to death.
Horrible death for both of them. I've read many cases like this and this is, by far, one of the worst I've ever seen. And I've read a lot since I study in law.
I don't believe death sentence is the appropriate one... I mean, for what they have done, they deserve to be condemned for life imprisonment.
On December 10 2011 04:27 logikly wrote: If they are indeed found to be guilty then they should be put to death.
Horrible death for both of them. I've read many cases like this and this is, by far, one of the worst I've ever seen. And I've read a lot since I study in law.
I don't believe death sentence is the appropriate one... I mean, for what they have done, they deserve to be condemned for life imprisonment.
Yeeeeah but do people really want their tax dollars to be going to keep this scum alive?
Our justice system is worthless. Criminals do this kind of shit because they know punishment is minimal and the absolute worst is execution which they won't feel anyway. We need to bring back eye for an eye punishment. You rape someone? Your punishment is rape. You horribly torture and murder someone? That someones family and loved ones get to do the same to you. This would deter so much more crime, and people like this would be scared shitless rather than not giving a shit, it's just sickening. If I had my way and a couple hours alone with these people (the ones who did this) I would have them wish they were never born, hell I'd have them wishing they WERE the people they did this TO.
On December 10 2011 04:16 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: It's one thing for some crazy jackasses to just murder some random person. But all that other stuff they did as well? What the hell is wrong with them. The fact that there's a retrial, (or rather, the fact that on day 1 of the first trial, the verdict was anything but immediate execution), is just disgusting. Consciously and deliberately doing something like that is practically inhuman. The only resolution is execution. I don't care if people are going to flame me for having said that, but this is one of the most fucked up things I've heard about, and it's not like it's made-up or exaggerated at that. wtf
It's only natural to feel thirst for revenge, why should anyone flame you for it? Revenge has no place in the justice system, however.
It's true. But what they did is unforgivable. I don't even think it's so much about revenge. Justice would be these people (I say people but they've lost the right to even be CALLED people, ne?) experiencing the same pain that they inflicted on that poor couple - although you may call me hypocritical; as much as I say this I would never have the stomach to brutalize someone like that unless I saw the crime happening in front of me...aie, I hope something like that never happens...
Justice is that they experience the same pain? That type of "an eye for an eye"-justice worked in the dark ages, its hardly something that can be applied in any civilized society. If we did the same to them, how are we any better?
Yes. In my mind, it is justice. What would make us better? The reason for doing it. It's all about motive. But you are right. We cannot apply that in a civilized society.
On December 10 2011 04:34 Kimaker wrote: "There is nothing inhumane or animalistic about the death penalty. The concept of holding one responsible and delivering punishment for an act that is not in the immediacy of its occurrence is intrinsically human for its hindsight and attention to the past and its influence on the future. However, this does not make it right or good but simply, and most assuredly, human."- anonymous
There is no separation between human and "animalistic", we are evolved animals after all. That does not mean we should embrace everything that is in our nature.
I look at it like this: Is a human an animal? Yes. Is an animal a human? No.
So to me, there is a distinction. I'm not really using it in a scientific sense, but in a descriptive sense as a way to demonstrate that we are different from most animals.
The amount of hatred that must have went into this crime is staggering. I'd really like to know what could possibly be so wrong with someone's mind that would make them want to do things like this to fellow Human-beings?
Wow, that is incredibly disturbing. Just dump them in a hole to rot away or put an end to them and forget about this mess.
And now I checked the date the news came up. Four years? Holy shit, can't even imagine how terrible the families must feel to have to go through the trials again.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
And I thought hipsters were pretentious. The only way you could genuinely not understand is by being a fucking psychopath that doesn't even know emotion; otherwise you're just acting like a stuck up, morally superior cunt.
Fuck you for trying to gain moral e-cred on this subject, by the way.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
And I thought hipsters were pretentious. The only way you could genuinely not understand is by being a fucking psychopath that doesn't even know emotion; otherwise you're just acting like a stuck up, morally superior cunt.
Fuck you for trying to gain moral e-cred on this subject, by the way.
Though crudely delivered, I agree with your point. It's natural to feel anger and to wish that the offenders would feel pain. If you don't feel sickened by this, I believe you would have to be completely apathetic. Nobody should be trying to take the moral high ground here. There are people out there who have completely lost every shred of humanity...and these criminals are of that sort.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
And I thought hipsters were pretentious. The only way you could genuinely not understand is by being a fucking psychopath that doesn't even know emotion; otherwise you're just acting like a stuck up, morally superior cunt.
Fuck you for trying to gain moral e-cred on this subject, by the way.
Though crudely delivered, I agree with your point. It's natural to feel anger and to wish that the offenders would feel pain. If you don't feel sickened by this, I believe you would have to be completely apathetic. Nobody should be trying to take the moral high ground here. There are people out there who have completely lost every shred of humanity...and these criminals are of that sort.
Some people realise that the justice system is more important then the emotional whims at the sight of such injustice.
Feeling emotions is different from being a slave to your emotions.
I can feel angry about this story but i can control myself and understand that violent payback is not what is called for here.
The difference as such isn't between one side feeling and another not. It's one side being dominated by their emotions and another remaining in control of themselves despite their emotions.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
If you can't hold someone accountable for their actions, then what do you do? Nothing? If someone is in the process of murdering someone and I have a gun am I not supposed to shoot them since we cannot hold them accountable?
This sort of logic floors me because of the issues it causes when applied to other areas of peoples lives. We can never praise someone for doing good, we cannot judge people for doing bad. Essentially all of our value judgments get throw out the window. Where does that leave society?
Wow. I heard about this a few years ago but for some reason concluded that it was an urban legend. Thats some sick shit. In the wiki it says that the perpertrators had white friends, boyfriends, girlfriends so its doubted that it was a hate crime. Whatever. I dont really care what the motive is for brutality; Its evil no matter what your reason is. If your the kind of person who would torture and rape people, fixing your racial prejudices should be at the bottom of your psychological laundry list.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
And I thought hipsters were pretentious. The only way you could genuinely not understand is by being a fucking psychopath that doesn't even know emotion; otherwise you're just acting like a stuck up, morally superior cunt.
Fuck you for trying to gain moral e-cred on this subject, by the way.
Though crudely delivered, I agree with your point. It's natural to feel anger and to wish that the offenders would feel pain. If you don't feel sickened by this, I believe you would have to be completely apathetic. Nobody should be trying to take the moral high ground here. There are people out there who have completely lost every shred of humanity...and these criminals are of that sort.
Some people realise that the justice system is more important then the emotional whims at the sight of such injustice.
Feeling emotions is different from being a slave to your emotions.
I can feel angry about this story but i can control myself and understand that violent payback is not what is called for here.
The difference as such isn't between one side feeling and another not. It's one side being dominated by their emotions and another remaining in control of themselves despite their emotions.
Like I said before this is true. I feel that retribution would be justice but I understand that if we give in to that, society would crumble. This would be why people are talking so violently on here, because it is merely that. Talking. Letting out the completely justified rage we feel.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
Ugh seriously? Yeah yeah, enough with "an eye for an eye makes everyone blind" bull shit. Let's see if you felt the same way after your very own father and mother we're the victims in this case, would you still be screaming out for peace to the ones who committed the crime?
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
Ugh seriously? Yeah yeah, enough with "an eye for an eye makes everyone blind" bull shit. Let's see if you felt the same way after your very own father and mother we're the victims in this case, would you still be screaming out for peace to the ones who committed the crime?
You choose to be sad instead of feeling anger. It is natural to feel anger, but that does not justify giving in to anger. We are not slaves of our feelings. Feelings have NO place in justice.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
Ugh seriously? Yeah yeah, enough with "an eye for an eye makes everyone blind" bull shit. Let's see if you felt the same way after your very own father and mother we're the victims in this case, would you still be screaming out for peace to the ones who committed the crime?
What kind of kinder garden argument is that? There is no room for bias in the justice system, if we treated every crime as if we were the victims, judging from a place of emotion rather than logic, society would fall apart.
Befree's argument that we cant punish people for their "genetics" (as if there was a "criminal" gene...) or upbringing is obviously idiotic though, because then nobody would be responsible for their actions. There is such a thing as free will and every action that anyone has a ever made has a consequence and we are all responsible for what we do.Even the most horrible upbringing that somebody has been through doesn't give you a free pass to commit horrible actions.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
And I thought hipsters were pretentious. The only way you could genuinely not understand is by being a fucking psychopath that doesn't even know emotion; otherwise you're just acting like a stuck up, morally superior cunt.
Fuck you for trying to gain moral e-cred on this subject, by the way.
Though crudely delivered, I agree with your point. It's natural to feel anger and to wish that the offenders would feel pain. If you don't feel sickened by this, I believe you would have to be completely apathetic. Nobody should be trying to take the moral high ground here. There are people out there who have completely lost every shred of humanity...and these criminals are of that sort.
Some people realise that the justice system is more important then the emotional whims at the sight of such injustice.
Feeling emotions is different from being a slave to your emotions.
I can feel angry about this story but i can control myself and understand that violent payback is not what is called for here.
The difference as such isn't between one side feeling and another not. It's one side being dominated by their emotions and another remaining in control of themselves despite their emotions.
Like I said before this is true. I feel that retribution would be justice but I understand that if we give in to that, society would crumble. This would be why people are talking so violently on here, because it is merely that. Talking. Letting out the completely justified rage we feel.
At the same time, though, your system is based on retribution and punishment rather than rehabilitation. Sure it's a lot better to have a legal system do such retribution rather than say, lynchings, but still.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
Until it happens to you. Some people will never, ever be useful to society at all in any way, shape, or form. How would you go about changing their behavior and reintroducing them to society? Where would they work? Where would they live? Would you want them in your neighborhood near your friends or family? What about children? No! These guys have no place in normal society and cannot bring anything meaningful to anybodies lives after what they have done. They will do nothing but waste taxpayers money for several years on end while the families of their victims have no sense of closure, no relief, no trust in society's ability to keep them safe, and basically no hope that "justice" will be served. Kill them and at least they will never have to wonder what those monsters are doing now and they won't have opportunity to do something like that again. It isn't like it was a crime of passion and a one time thing. This was a prolonged torture by fucked up psychopaths. There is no curing whatever they have, no fixing their "sickness," no helping them change their ways. They are permanently fucked up pieces of shit who don't deserve to breath. I know personally and many of you will probably get upset at me for saying it but, sometimes, it feels really fucking good to get revenge. I can't imagine what I would do if someone did this to my family. I can promise you that that I would go to every possible length to "avenge" their deaths and I would enjoy every fucking second of it.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
Ugh seriously? Yeah yeah, enough with "an eye for an eye makes everyone blind" bull shit. Let's see if you felt the same way after your very own father and mother we're the victims in this case, would you still be screaming out for peace to the ones who committed the crime?
What kind of kinder garden argument is that? There is no room for bias in the justice system, if we treated every crime as if we were the victims, judging from a place of emotion rather than logic, society would fall apart.
I'm not saying we should be bias in certain situations, i'm just saying people need to be held accountable for their actions. And sometimes I feel like life in prison is not enough compensation for murders like in this case.
Befree's argument that we cant punish people for their "genetics" (as if there was a "criminal" gene...) or upbringing is obviously idiotic though, because then nobody would be responsible for their actions. There is such a thing as free will and every action that anyone has a ever made has a consequence and we are all responsible for what we do.Even the most horrible upbringing that somebody has been through doesn't give you a free pass to commit horrible actions.
I'm not saying we should be bias in certain situations, i'm just saying people need to be held accountable for their actions. And sometimes I feel like life in prison is not enough compensation for murders like in this case.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
The disturbing part about this story is that it wasnt really focused on at all by the news. I cant help but feel that it was racially motivated to ignore it. When a black guy gets punched by a white guy its all over the news replete with accusations of racism, even if it turns out that they both mutually disliked eachother for a long time and were provoking one another. Two whites are raped and tortured specifically because of race and we never hear about it. I dont think thats a coincidence.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
And I thought hipsters were pretentious. The only way you could genuinely not understand is by being a fucking psychopath that doesn't even know emotion; otherwise you're just acting like a stuck up, morally superior cunt.
Fuck you for trying to gain moral e-cred on this subject, by the way.
Though crudely delivered, I agree with your point. It's natural to feel anger and to wish that the offenders would feel pain. If you don't feel sickened by this, I believe you would have to be completely apathetic. Nobody should be trying to take the moral high ground here. There are people out there who have completely lost every shred of humanity...and these criminals are of that sort.
Some people realise that the justice system is more important then the emotional whims at the sight of such injustice.
Feeling emotions is different from being a slave to your emotions.
I can feel angry about this story but i can control myself and understand that violent payback is not what is called for here.
The difference as such isn't between one side feeling and another not. It's one side being dominated by their emotions and another remaining in control of themselves despite their emotions.
Like I said before this is true. I feel that retribution would be justice but I understand that if we give in to that, society would crumble. This would be why people are talking so violently on here, because it is merely that. Talking. Letting out the completely justified rage we feel.
At the same time, though, your system is based on retribution and punishment rather than rehabilitation. Sure it's a lot better to have a legal system do such retribution rather than say, lynchings, but still.
Hm. It's true our justice system isn't the best but do you really think people like THIS can be rehabilitated? In cases like this I am all for the death penalty. What I meant by retribution was brutal retribution; making them feel the same pain. Probably should have specified that. Ahaha. My bad. Perhaps I give in to my emotional side a little bit too much, huh? I guess that's just personality. But of course we can't ACTUALLY go around beating criminals to death. As bloodthirstily satisfying as that would be, admittedly...HOWEVER. Must keep that side reigned in. Self-control is a good thing. Death, yes. Brutal death, no. (Am I somewhere on the middle ground here? For some reason I feel like I am.)
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
And I thought hipsters were pretentious. The only way you could genuinely not understand is by being a fucking psychopath that doesn't even know emotion; otherwise you're just acting like a stuck up, morally superior cunt.
Fuck you for trying to gain moral e-cred on this subject, by the way.
Though crudely delivered, I agree with your point. It's natural to feel anger and to wish that the offenders would feel pain. If you don't feel sickened by this, I believe you would have to be completely apathetic. Nobody should be trying to take the moral high ground here. There are people out there who have completely lost every shred of humanity...and these criminals are of that sort.
Some people realise that the justice system is more important then the emotional whims at the sight of such injustice.
Feeling emotions is different from being a slave to your emotions.
I can feel angry about this story but i can control myself and understand that violent payback is not what is called for here.
The difference as such isn't between one side feeling and another not. It's one side being dominated by their emotions and another remaining in control of themselves despite their emotions.
Like I said before this is true. I feel that retribution would be justice but I understand that if we give in to that, society would crumble. This would be why people are talking so violently on here, because it is merely that. Talking. Letting out the completely justified rage we feel.
Society would not crumble because of the death penalty. I'm not sure if you meant to imply such but you certainly weren't careful not to. These people need to be put on trial, only so that they can be proven guilty, on the off-chance that such proof isn't possible and they should be presumed innocent like everyone else, and to insure that the executioner himself would not be committing the first crime of taking an innocent life. The concept of 'innocent until proven guilty' is essential to society. The concept of 'mercy before justice' is not. There is plenty to be gained from ending these people's lives, and perhaps more importantly plenty to lose in paying to keep them alive in a cell. They're not worth it.
Does anyone know the reason behind these murders? Like I understand some people are fucked up, but like there MUST be some reason or something that triggered them into doing this.... You just don't randomly rape and torture a couple on the street. The murderers didn't have any mental problems, so i'm guessing they had motives behind their actions. I'd love to know them.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
Ugh seriously? Yeah yeah, enough with "an eye for an eye makes everyone blind" bull shit. Let's see if you felt the same way after your very own father and mother we're the victims in this case, would you still be screaming out for peace to the ones who committed the crime?
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
And I thought hipsters were pretentious. The only way you could genuinely not understand is by being a fucking psychopath that doesn't even know emotion; otherwise you're just acting like a stuck up, morally superior cunt.
Fuck you for trying to gain moral e-cred on this subject, by the way.
Though crudely delivered, I agree with your point. It's natural to feel anger and to wish that the offenders would feel pain. If you don't feel sickened by this, I believe you would have to be completely apathetic. Nobody should be trying to take the moral high ground here. There are people out there who have completely lost every shred of humanity...and these criminals are of that sort.
Some people realise that the justice system is more important then the emotional whims at the sight of such injustice.
Feeling emotions is different from being a slave to your emotions.
I can feel angry about this story but i can control myself and understand that violent payback is not what is called for here.
The difference as such isn't between one side feeling and another not. It's one side being dominated by their emotions and another remaining in control of themselves despite their emotions.
Like I said before this is true. I feel that retribution would be justice but I understand that if we give in to that, society would crumble. This would be why people are talking so violently on here, because it is merely that. Talking. Letting out the completely justified rage we feel.
At the same time, though, your system is based on retribution and punishment rather than rehabilitation. Sure it's a lot better to have a legal system do such retribution rather than say, lynchings, but still.
Hm. It's true our justice system isn't the best but do you really think people like THIS can be rehabilitated? In cases like this I am all for the death penalty. What I meant by retribution was brutal retribution; making them feel the same pain. Probably should have specified that. Ahaha. My bad. Perhaps I give in to my emotional side a little bit too much, huh? I guess that's just personality. But of course we can't ACTUALLY go around beating criminals to death. As bloodthirstily satisfying as that would be, admittedly...HOWEVER. Must keep that side reigned in. Self-control is a good thing. Death, yes. Brutal death, no. (Am I somewhere on the middle ground here? For some reason I feel like I am.)
I've actually recently come to the conclusion that taking someone's life is pretty much never ever justified, with the only exception being that they are about to take yours or another person's life (making it a choice between one life or another, where one of them is in the wrong and the other isn't, ie. clear choice).
But things such as death penalties cannot ever be justified. I used to be a bit more leanient with this, having the stance that if it could be conclusively proven (not beyond reasonable doubt but all doubt) that someone was guilty of a crime henious enough then the death penalty would be suitable. This isn't actually possible which was my previous reason for being against the death penalty. As I said, though, I've come to realize that actually killing someone is such a huge deal that "justice" isn't motivation enough.
And to answer your question; Why wouldn't it be possible to rehabilitate these people? If not all, at least some of them? If they are found to be insane then just lock them up forever. If they're not, why not at least give it a try? Seems like a much better starting point than "fuck it, not worth trying". Especially if they're ever getting out, like the one with the 54 year sentence.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
Ugh seriously? Yeah yeah, enough with "an eye for an eye makes everyone blind" bull shit. Let's see if you felt the same way after your very own father and mother we're the victims in this case, would you still be screaming out for peace to the ones who committed the crime?
What kind of kinder garden argument is that? There is no room for bias in the justice system, if we treated every crime as if we were the victims, judging from a place of emotion rather than logic, society would fall apart.
Befree's argument that we cant punish people for their "genetics" (as if there was a "criminal" gene...) or upbringing is obviously idiotic though, because then nobody would be responsible for their actions. There is such a thing as free will and every action that anyone has a ever made has a consequence and we are all responsible for what we do.Even the most horrible upbringing that somebody has been through doesn't give you a free pass to commit horrible actions.
Actually, there's a big philosophical debate about that subject. Is is actually true that most pepole have free will? Or are most pepole simply slaves to their emotions and education.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
And I thought hipsters were pretentious. The only way you could genuinely not understand is by being a fucking psychopath that doesn't even know emotion; otherwise you're just acting like a stuck up, morally superior cunt.
Fuck you for trying to gain moral e-cred on this subject, by the way.
Though crudely delivered, I agree with your point. It's natural to feel anger and to wish that the offenders would feel pain. If you don't feel sickened by this, I believe you would have to be completely apathetic. Nobody should be trying to take the moral high ground here. There are people out there who have completely lost every shred of humanity...and these criminals are of that sort.
Some people realise that the justice system is more important then the emotional whims at the sight of such injustice.
Feeling emotions is different from being a slave to your emotions.
I can feel angry about this story but i can control myself and understand that violent payback is not what is called for here.
The difference as such isn't between one side feeling and another not. It's one side being dominated by their emotions and another remaining in control of themselves despite their emotions.
Like I said before this is true. I feel that retribution would be justice but I understand that if we give in to that, society would crumble. This would be why people are talking so violently on here, because it is merely that. Talking. Letting out the completely justified rage we feel.
Society would not crumble because of the death penalty. I'm not sure if you meant to imply such but you certainly weren't careful not to. These people need to be put on trial, only so that they can be proven guilty, on the off-chance that such proof isn't possible and they should be presumed innocent like everyone else, and to insure that the executioner himself would not be committing the first crime of taking an innocent life. The concept of 'innocent until proven guilty' is essential to society. The concept of 'mercy before justice' is not. There is plenty to be gained from ending these people's lives, and perhaps more importantly plenty to lose in paying to keep them alive in a cell. They're not worth it.
Yes! That's exactly what I meant. I'm sorry for wording it poorly! I support the death penalty especially in cases like this; what I meant by retribution was brutal retribution, i.e. torture and the call to make these people feel the pain they put that poor couple through. That would be justice in my eyes but I realize that we can't do that.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
And I thought hipsters were pretentious. The only way you could genuinely not understand is by being a fucking psychopath that doesn't even know emotion; otherwise you're just acting like a stuck up, morally superior cunt.
Fuck you for trying to gain moral e-cred on this subject, by the way.
Though crudely delivered, I agree with your point. It's natural to feel anger and to wish that the offenders would feel pain. If you don't feel sickened by this, I believe you would have to be completely apathetic. Nobody should be trying to take the moral high ground here. There are people out there who have completely lost every shred of humanity...and these criminals are of that sort.
Some people realise that the justice system is more important then the emotional whims at the sight of such injustice.
Feeling emotions is different from being a slave to your emotions.
I can feel angry about this story but i can control myself and understand that violent payback is not what is called for here.
The difference as such isn't between one side feeling and another not. It's one side being dominated by their emotions and another remaining in control of themselves despite their emotions.
Like I said before this is true. I feel that retribution would be justice but I understand that if we give in to that, society would crumble. This would be why people are talking so violently on here, because it is merely that. Talking. Letting out the completely justified rage we feel.
Society would not crumble because of the death penalty. I'm not sure if you meant to imply such but you certainly weren't careful not to. These people need to be put on trial, only so that they can be proven guilty, on the off-chance that such proof isn't possible and they should be presumed innocent like everyone else, and to insure that the executioner himself would not be committing the first crime of taking an innocent life. The concept of 'innocent until proven guilty' is essential to society. The concept of 'mercy before justice' is not. There is plenty to be gained from ending these people's lives, and perhaps more importantly plenty to lose in paying to keep them alive in a cell. They're not worth it.
Actually, it costs more to give someone the death penalty then it does to put them in prison for life. I think the mere fact that there have been proven cases of people being convicted and sentenced to death for crimes that they were innocent of is enough to stop the death penalty. Disclaimer: What these people did is horrible, and I understand peoples gut reactions.
If I knew this couple personally I would like to see them all executed. And then I would round up the whole family and friends and what not of them and execute them publicly. In my eyes they are guilty of the crime just as the ones who actually committed it.
I'm out. As someone relatively close to this trial, some of these comments are making me rage more than the actual crime and it risks my TL account if I keep up with this horseshit. glhf
Another example of where modern society is heading: no principles, no religion. no moral values ... money, pleasure, egoism and double standards to rule em all.
^as opposed to a century and a half ago when slavery was legal and we were murdering the woman and children of native americans?
On December 10 2011 05:33 lizzard_warish wrote: The disturbing part about this story is that it wasnt really focused on at all by the news. I cant help but feel that it was racially motivated to ignore it. When a black guy gets punched by a white guy its all over the news replete with accusations of racism, even if it turns out that they both mutually disliked eachother for a long time and were provoking one another. Two whites are raped and tortured specifically because of race and we never hear about it. I dont think thats a coincidence.
This is very anecdotal and I would like and example. Have you ever watched the show cops? it seems like 75% of the people arrested on that show are black or mexican.
What the hell was the reason for them doing this? Was there a connection between the murderers and the victims? Says it was pre-meditated, but no mention of the relationship between the two parties. Edit: And if it's a random hate crime...just wow.
On December 10 2011 05:44 Holy_AT wrote: If I knew this couple personally I would like to see them all executed. And then I would round up the whole family and friends and what not of them and execute them publicly. In my eyes they are guilty of the crime just as the ones who actually committed it.
So you would violate the International Declaration of Human Rights and the Religious belief that many hold dear ,just to have a brief artificial sense of justice?Promoting killing as an easy resolution to a complex problem sounds cool doesn't it?
Besides you supporting the state taking away the lifes of citizens,you outright forgot that these people have families and friends,I'm pretty sure you woudln't want anyone you hold dear to yourself taken away by your country.
On December 10 2011 05:44 Holy_AT wrote: If I knew this couple personally I would like to see them all executed. And then I would round up the whole family and friends and what not of them and execute them publicly. In my eyes they are guilty of the crime just as the ones who actually committed it.
On December 10 2011 05:48 DueSs wrote: I'm out. As someone relatively close to this trial, some of these comments are making me rage more than the actual crime and it risks my TL account if I keep up with this horseshit. glhf
Please if any of you two could shed some light on this, I would like to know what the relationship between the murderers and the victims were? Why exactly was this crime committed, please don't tell me it was just a random hate crime? Or else I might get sick in the stomach.
On December 10 2011 05:48 Rammstorm wrote: Another example of where modern society is heading: no principles, no religion. no moral values ... money, pleasure, egoism and double standards to rule em all.
Disclaimer: Atheist. rationalist
i know right because there are no such things as moral values and principles without religion. i'm sure you're an atheist haha. don't make me puke.
On December 10 2011 05:35 neoghaleon55 wrote: Stories like these make me support the death penalty. We need artificial genetic selection, dammit! ...lol go texas!
Yeah we should start up a Eugenics program here in the US! .....
So many good people in this world go without food, clean water, or shelter. Why do we waste so much time, money, and energy on demons like these?
Not a single grain of wheat should be chopped down for any of these demons. No energy should be wasted on pumping water for them. There is no chance of these demons ever contributing to society again. Throw them in a cell with no food or water and let nature take its course.
On December 10 2011 05:35 neoghaleon55 wrote: Stories like these make me support the death penalty. We need artificial genetic selection, dammit! ...lol go texas!
Yeah we should start up a Eugenics program here in the US! .....
Yes go Texas,Rick Perry was happy to execute that innocent fella and the other guy that had a mental illness wrongfully.Besides executing a human being costs 4x more than him being held forever in a prison.
On December 10 2011 05:54 RenSC2 wrote: So many good people in this world go without food, clean water, or shelter. Why do we waste so much time, money, and energy on demons like these?
Not a single grain of wheat should be chopped down for any of these demons. No energy should be wasted on pumping water for them. There is no chance of these demons ever contributing to society again. Throw them in a cell with no food or water and let nature take its course.
On December 10 2011 05:35 neoghaleon55 wrote: Stories like these make me support the death penalty. We need artificial genetic selection, dammit! ...lol go texas!
Yeah we should start up a Eugenics program here in the US! .....
Yes go Texas,Rick Perry was happy to execute that innocent fella and the other guy that had a mental illness wrongfully.Besides executing a human being costs 4x more than him being held forever in a prison.
When I read stuff like that, the civilized part of me that understands the necessity and value of laws and court systems tends to get drowned out by a more primitive desire to see the perpetrators of crimes like these slowly tortured to death. How a person can do that to another person for no reason at all is something I'll just never understand. And even though at the end of the day I'd never actually advocate this sort of thing, I would be interested to see what kind of effect public, brutal torture and execution of the perpetrators and others who have done the same things would have in terms of discouraging it from being done by others.
On December 10 2011 05:35 neoghaleon55 wrote: Stories like these make me support the death penalty. We need artificial genetic selection, dammit! ...lol go texas!
Yeah we should start up a Eugenics program here in the US! .....
Yes go Texas,Rick Perry was happy to execute that innocent fella and the other guy that had a mental illness wrongfully.Besides executing a human being costs 4x more than him being held forever in a prison.
On December 10 2011 05:44 Holy_AT wrote: If I knew this couple personally I would like to see them all executed. And then I would round up the whole family and friends and what not of them and execute them publicly. In my eyes they are guilty of the crime just as the ones who actually committed it.
Holy shit how can you actually think this? I understand being appalled sad, and very angry, but should we have killed all of the Germans and Japanese after World War 2 as well?
On December 10 2011 05:35 neoghaleon55 wrote: Stories like these make me support the death penalty. We need artificial genetic selection, dammit! ...lol go texas!
Yeah we should start up a Eugenics program here in the US! .....
Yes go Texas,Rick Perry was happy to execute that innocent fella and the other guy that had a mental illness wrongfully.Besides executing a human being costs 4x more than him being held forever in a prison.
death penalty trials cost more than other trials. they are far more demanding, more rigorous. this is simply a fact of all (afaik) state court systems.
What an unpleasant necro thread to finish my exams to. I can't help but to get riled and try to point the blame at someone or something, but I think, straight up: 1) This was a hate crime, most likely of racist origin. 2) These guys were mentally insane, or really fucked up on drugs 3) The least likely considering all of the perpetrators were caught in the most unsophisticated way possible, this was act of establishing 'street cred' or some motive like that. If anything, this option is giving them too much intellectual credit.
I'm interested in the finer details though... Like why this couple? Was there a previous altercation? I'm from the South, and I know that alot of white Southerners were raised by parents stuck in the 18th century, which creates a cycle. Not trying to blanket, but it's an established fact that I've witnessed AND experienced time and time again.
Why so gruesomely? Even disregarding the rape and mutilation, why multiple bullets? An proper analogy would be the difference between slitting someone's throat and stabbing them 19 times. One is methodical for the purpose of killing while the other is filled with passion and emotion. Which leads me to think that it's tied to a previous meeting, or even passing-by, where the couple may have done something to trigger the response...
I don't know. This is my way of trying to make sense of something that makes no sense. Tragic...
i'ma take the stand on the side on vengeance in this case, and most cases like it. Having completely nothing to do with race or any sort of background associated with this case (i.e. upbringing, enviroment or any sort of affiliations) but having to do purely with the actions and attitude that resulted. I believe they should be severly punished, I mean like back in the old days where they would drown would-be witches, or have the community 'stone' criminals publically. May sound cruel by todays standards, however, I do only mean for this instance or others like it obviously, not for something like self-defense murder or a more common hold-up scenario where someone tries to rob a gas station or something and a murder comes of it.. but in this more intense, vile and reprehensible scenario where the end result was pre-meditated.
I can't possibly see the argument to "let justice come of it" or "let the justice system do its work", we all know that its flawed, almost hopelessly. Our Justice system has been known to not find the evidence neccesary in some cases to convict clearly guilty parties due to some loophole or trickery in lawyer debates and some cases where rapists can go free in 5-7 years, which is insane.. Those who agree and think that the justice system is doing its job sufficiently by letting these wastes of space occupy area in prisons are crazy.. Letting 5 adults spend the rest of their lives in prison, being fed and being a burden in the world is a waste of time. If one person was to shoot an officer, while trying to escape from a high speed pursuit, u can rest assured that he'd be put to death, but perhaps spending 10+ years behind bars (because the system is sooo slow to do anything about this, theres ppl being on death row for almost 20 years before they actually see the death penalty, in which they almost forget what they've done to get to that point by then). But these assholes kidnap, rape and murder two innocent contributers to society, life and the pursuit of their own happiness, they get to spend the rest of their life in prison.. and thats supposed to make up for it?
I know the argument, that the theory of an eye for an eye would leave us all blind, but again, I don't mean in every situation but almost definately in any and every case that merits the death penalty.. Sometimes you have to set examples that such things won't be tolerated, and even though cases or situations like this might still happen, those responsible can be sure that when they're caught, they're won't be any mercy and the 'hammer' of justice will fall quickly and powerfuly
... World War 2... how many million dead again?....
Well, this sort of crap happens ... But interestingly enought, most of Tragic events happen in a culture that has been raised in a certain matter.
For instance: In Spain, most of the tragedies are males killing their Wife/gilfriend. If ever see how males behave with their wifes outside cities, its not much of a surprise that when those try to leave them, they do something crazy and stupid.
99.9% of the times its the parents fault. If you give you children a good education, a decent moral value system, etc... Its very hard that something like that should happen.
But if you take somone who lived in an envoiroment that created the situation for this.... shit happens.
Finally, If i was the admin of this Webpage, id probably delete this thread. This is after all a gaming comunity, with underage people, and this is not something they should be reading about (they will get enought of this crap in tv news anyway).
On December 10 2011 05:35 neoghaleon55 wrote: Stories like these make me support the death penalty. We need artificial genetic selection, dammit! ...lol go texas!
I would support execution in this case, but no... we don't need to follow the eugenicism of 19th century Britain or 20th century Germany on top of that. No thanks.
I can't help but imagine the plight the victims go through in cases like these. The hopeless unfairness, depravity and horror of it all. It kills me. Just got out of a class discussing communication theories, some relatively high-level thinking led by a brilliant instructor. When I read this it just sends all that thinking out the window, back down to my basest level, rage, hate and loss.
Then when I calm down a little, and think about the power structures that create the contexts for these events to take place, I get more and more hopeless and don't know how to act meaningfully. I guess ill play some video games
On December 10 2011 05:35 neoghaleon55 wrote: Stories like these make me support the death penalty. We need artificial genetic selection, dammit! ...lol go texas!
Yeah we should start up a Eugenics program here in the US! .....
Yes go Texas,Rick Perry was happy to execute that innocent fella and the other guy that had a mental illness wrongfully.Besides executing a human being costs 4x more than him being held forever in a prison.
Hell Yeah Go Texas!! Hmmm, execute an innocent man? No no my friend.. only people found guilty of a crime can be executed. If they are innocent and can't provide enough evidence to show it than it's to bad for them. (I've been found guilty of a felony I didn't commit) Proving you didn't do something after you're dead isn't fast enough. Mental illness man.. he killed two people and put someone else in chair for life. Did he have a illness? Yes, but then was too late to use this excuse AND the Supreme Court denied his appeal. Rick Perry didn't kill anyone. The people of Texas found whoever guilty.
Executing cost so much because of one thing, Bleeding heart pussies. If there weren't so many appeals or red tape and just a rope and a gallows than it wouldn't be very expensive would it? And, what do you.. in Brazil, care if we here in Texas execute a criminal? Would Brazil be ok with a exchange program where we send our violent criminals there to live in exchange for them getting the fuck outta our state? The criminals would fit right in the the corruption and crime in Brazil. Maybe you guys should be trying to get Perry as your president to clean your country up instead of mock us for enforcing the consequences of breaking our laws.
Are we happy to execute people? No, I'm never happy when someone dies. I am happy when justice is served. What was done to these two poor souls is anger-inducing to me. The people who committed these acts are animals, the only problem is we as humans can't give these filth the punishment they deserve.
On December 10 2011 05:44 Holy_AT wrote: If I knew this couple personally I would like to see them all executed. And then I would round up the whole family and friends and what not of them and execute them publicly. In my eyes they are guilty of the crime just as the ones who actually committed it.
Holy shit how can you actually think this? I understand being appalled sad, and very angry, but should we have killed all of the Germans and Japanese after World War 2 as well?
Well, at least "you" kinda tried, dropping bombs and nukes on civil cities with the intention to kill civilians", wasn't that a form of retribution too? Also I dont think ALL the Germans and Japanese were murderers, not even the soldiers. Or would you label a soldier a murderer? Also most of the real Nazis that did the murderings in the KZs and their supervisors did get the death penalty.
So i dont know if you are trolling or what but that comparison is kinda off.
On December 10 2011 06:36 Sosha wrote: I can't possibly see the argument to "let justice come of it" or "let the justice system do its work", we all know that its flawed, almost hopelessly. Our Justice system has been known to not find the evidence neccesary in some cases to convict clearly guilty parties due to some loophole or trickery in lawyer debates and some cases where rapists can go free in 5-7 years, which is insane.. Those who agree and think that the justice system is doing its job sufficiently by letting these wastes of space occupy area in prisons are crazy.. Letting 5 adults spend the rest of their lives in prison, being fed and being a burden in the world is a waste of time. If one person was to shoot an officer, while trying to escape from a high speed pursuit, u can rest assured that he'd be put to death, but perhaps spending 10+ years behind bars (because the system is sooo slow to do anything about this, theres ppl being on death row for almost 20 years before they actually see the death penalty, in which they almost forget what they've done to get to that point by then). But these assholes kidnap, rape and murder two innocent contributers to society, life and the pursuit of their own happiness, they get to spend the rest of their life in prison.. and thats supposed to make up for it?
It's more of a burden to the state if they're found guilty and put to death. It costs roughly 1.5 to 2 million dollars to put someone to death because of the required appeals, lawyer fees, and everything else involved in the process. However, it's only roughly $20-25,000 per year in jail. So let's take Davidson, who is currently 30. If he lives for 40 more years while in jail for life, at $25k it'll cost the state 1 million versus 1.5-2 million if they wanted to put him to death. Furthermore, you act like spending life in prison is fun. Rapists, especially brutal acts like these, often have an incredibly hard time and I imagine these young men will have a much more difficult time than most other incarcerated individuals.
On December 10 2011 02:46 taintmachine wrote: the defendants in this case (which were already sentenced) are getting a retrial. the decision was made on dec. 1, 2011. the presiding judge was addicted to, i think, prescription drugs at the time.
Channon Gail Christian, 21, and Hugh Christopher Newsom, Jr., 23, were a couple from Knoxville, Tennessee. They were both raped, tortured and murdered after being kidnapped early on the morning of January 7, 2007. Their vehicle had been carjacked.[1][2] Five suspects were arrested and charged in the case. The grand jury indicted four of the suspects on counts of murder, robbery, kidnapping, rape and theft. Three of those arrested, Letalvis D. Cobbins, Lemaricus Davidson and George Thomas, have been convicted on multiple charges including several counts of felony murder. After a jury trial Lemaricus Davidson was sentenced to death by lethal injection and Letalvis Cobbins and George Thomas were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Vanessa Coleman has been convicted of facilitating the crimes and sentenced to 53 years in prison, and Eric Dewayne Boyd has been convicted of federal charges as accessory after the fact to carjacking and sentenced to 18 years in prison.[3] On December 1st, 2011, new trials were granted to the defendants due to drug abuse by the presiding Judge.
In December 2011, the convictions of Lemaricus Davidson, Letalvis Cobbins, George Thomas, and Vanessa Coleman were overturned by a special judge who ruled that the presiding judge at their trials, Richard Baumgartner, was intoxicated at the time. The four defendants will be facing new trials.
This one of those times where I'd be fine if they were all shot and that was the end of it. Seriously sick shit they did.
Yep. Give me a gun and I'd do it myself. Enraging story. Some people don't deserve a second chance.
Normally I would just not agree with this. I wouldn't want Breivik killed, but this is even worse. These people lost their right to be human. Kill them in the exact way they killed their victims. At least Breivik just shot people.
On December 10 2011 05:35 neoghaleon55 wrote: Stories like these make me support the death penalty. We need artificial genetic selection, dammit! ...lol go texas!
I would support execution in this case, but no... we don't need to follow the eugenicism of 19th century Britain or 20th century Germany on top of that. No thanks.
The United States had a prominent eugenics program. You should really think twice before trying to be clever with comments like these.
On December 10 2011 05:48 Rammstorm wrote: Another example of where modern society is heading: no principles, no religion. no moral values ... money, pleasure, egoism and double standards to rule em all.
Disclaimer: Atheist. rationalist
i know right because there are no such things as moral values and principles without religion. i'm sure you're an atheist haha. don't make me puke.
What are the ethic and moral values of an atheist? I'm an atheist myself but my main principle is one that is found in the bible:
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
It's a phrase from the bible. It's genius in its simplicity, really. If everyone were to live like that, there'd be no reason for conflict at all. I treat people like I'd like them to treat me, and believe me, it pays off time and again.
Being an atheist means that you do not believe in a God. Being an atheist does not mean, however, that books like the bible and qur'an should be considered bullshit, because they aren't. There is some really smart stuff written in those books that, despite being hundreds of years old, is still incredibly relevant. It just tends to fall on deaf ears since people are apparently unable nowadays to interpret a layered text.
I understand that people are angry and disgusted by what happened to that young couple four years ago. I'm disgusted as well. However, we should not lower ourselves to the level of the people who tortured and murdered that poor couple. Rationality must never give way to emotion. Most decisions based on emotions tend to be bad ones. Just let the justice system do its job and act like rational human beings.
This is the time when even normal people can be blinded by rage. I think even events as shocking as this shouldn't make us lower our own dignity. Vengeance would only empower these people (yes, the worst of criminals, but people), drag down the rest of society to their level, and make everyone worse off.
I hope they get a fair trial, at the end of which justice is served.
im always a bit afraid of this happening to me, because really - theres nothing you can do about it if some group of people decides to do it to you and your family.
;_;
i wish we lived in a world where i didnt have to sleep afraid ;_;
On December 10 2011 04:24 kafkaesque wrote: I was always fundamentally against death penalty and I never thought that I anything could justify corporal punishment in my opinion, but this really makes me rethink my position.
Even with racial disadvantages you can't excuse behaviour like this. "Well, they've been discriminated all their life, so the victims had it coming to them" just is no kind of valid argument... Not having equal job opportunities and gangraping and torturing a young couple for days just isn't comparable.
Call me naive, but I'm really sad and disappointed that such evil even exists.
Why should we give up otherwise valid principles just because there are a few exceptions? I refuse to lose some of my humanity because of these people.
I argue that you are losing humanity by allowing these people to continue to walk the Earth.
On December 10 2011 04:24 kafkaesque wrote: I was always fundamentally against death penalty and I never thought that I anything could justify corporal punishment in my opinion, but this really makes me rethink my position.
Even with racial disadvantages you can't excuse behaviour like this. "Well, they've been discriminated all their life, so the victims had it coming to them" just is no kind of valid argument... Not having equal job opportunities and gangraping and torturing a young couple for days just isn't comparable.
Call me naive, but I'm really sad and disappointed that such evil even exists.
Why should we give up otherwise valid principles just because there are a few exceptions? I refuse to lose some of my humanity because of these people.
I argue that you are losing humanity by allowing these people to continue to walk the Earth.
On December 10 2011 07:52 maartendq wrote: Being an atheist means that you do not believe in a God. Being an atheist does not mean, however, that books like the bible and qur'an should be considered bullshit, because they aren't.
well, they're pretty bad novel
and i don't live my life based on any sentence or book
last thing, some answers in this thread made me more sick than the news itself people, don't bring hatred based on news items, it may be awful, but some things happen (i'm not saying it can't be avoid, it's just that once in a year event should influence your mind)
"The case also attracted the attention of white supremacists. On May 27, 2007, around 30 white supremacists led by Alex Linder rallied in downtown Knoxville in protest of the murders. They were met by a larger number of counter-protestors, many dressed as clowns "
Well there you go, clowns are funny see! it is funny!
The first ten pages of this thread are... wow. It's always nice to get a glimpse of TL in the "good ol' days", before SC2. People clearly had a lot more leeway to express their opinions.
On December 10 2011 02:46 taintmachine wrote: the defendants in this case (which were already sentenced) are getting a retrial. the decision was made on dec. 1, 2011. the presiding judge was addicted to, i think, prescription drugs at the time.
Channon Gail Christian, 21, and Hugh Christopher Newsom, Jr., 23, were a couple from Knoxville, Tennessee. They were both raped, tortured and murdered after being kidnapped early on the morning of January 7, 2007. Their vehicle had been carjacked.[1][2] Five suspects were arrested and charged in the case. The grand jury indicted four of the suspects on counts of murder, robbery, kidnapping, rape and theft. Three of those arrested, Letalvis D. Cobbins, Lemaricus Davidson and George Thomas, have been convicted on multiple charges including several counts of felony murder. After a jury trial Lemaricus Davidson was sentenced to death by lethal injection and Letalvis Cobbins and George Thomas were sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Vanessa Coleman has been convicted of facilitating the crimes and sentenced to 53 years in prison, and Eric Dewayne Boyd has been convicted of federal charges as accessory after the fact to carjacking and sentenced to 18 years in prison.[3] On December 1st, 2011, new trials were granted to the defendants due to drug abuse by the presiding Judge.
In December 2011, the convictions of Lemaricus Davidson, Letalvis Cobbins, George Thomas, and Vanessa Coleman were overturned by a special judge who ruled that the presiding judge at their trials, Richard Baumgartner, was intoxicated at the time. The four defendants will be facing new trials.
This one of those times where I'd be fine if they were all shot and that was the end of it. Seriously sick shit they did.
This is one of those rare times when I agree with this sentiment.
I'm not sure what to think after reading this. It is disgusting and I can't quite fathom how a person could do these things to another. On one hand I feel they should all receive the death penalty, but on the other they should be placed in prison and forced to live the rest of their lives knowing what they have done. Not that what they have done will haunt them, after all they were the ones to do those horrific acts and so I am wondering if they are even capable of feeling remorse, regret or guilt.
As for the retrial, that is just stupid. So the judge was on drugs, the facts still stand as to what was done to that couple.
Wow, this is terrible. How the hell can someone do this just for no reason?
I can't imagine what would be going through the victim's heads while going through that. I feel so speechless and yet angry that people would willingly to do these things to other people.
Please, I hope the court gives them the justice they deserve. They need to be taught a lesson.
Why retrails? It's a waste of resources for nothing..the last thing these guys need is another trial.
I'd just have 'em shoot, it's harsh, but humanbeings capable of doing something like this to someone at random for no reason at all has nothing to contribute to any society ever, remove them. Not as punishment, just to clean up some filth.
I feel wrong having not been fully sickened by this story... That being said, a lot of good points brought up in this bump and they've enlightened me a bit about this world we live in. I honestly don't know where I stand in terms of punishing them at this point with the current system in place.
On December 10 2011 09:46 Selth wrote: I feel wrong having not been fully sickened by this story... That being said, a lot of good points brought up in this bump and they've enlightened me a bit about this world we live in. I honestly don't know where I stand in terms of punishing them at this point with the current system in place.
Hey, when you've heard enough stories like this on senseless violence towards another human being, you tend to become nonreactive towards them.
Always been against the DP and I will stand by my opinion on it.
On December 10 2011 09:46 Selth wrote: I feel wrong having not been fully sickened by this story... That being said, a lot of good points brought up in this bump and they've enlightened me a bit about this world we live in. I honestly don't know where I stand in terms of punishing them at this point with the current system in place.
Hey, when you've heard enough stories like this on senseless violence towards another human being, you tend to become nonreactive towards them.
Always been against the DP and I will stand by my opinion on it.
I just don't see how this line of thought is even possible given the horror of the crime involved. I seriously doubt these people could be rehabilitated, and even if they could, they don't deserve the chance. And putting them in prison for life is still allowing them to live. Regardless of what conditions they might be in, life is still better than death in almost any scenario (there are some obvious exceptions, but prison is not one of them.)
Kill them, rid the world of scum, and save millions of taxpayers dollars.
I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
I don't see what's the point of making this a race issue.
I can't think of a single black person that would think this crime was anything less than a horrible, unfathomable atrocity. This is exactly the kind of crime that the death penalty is meant for.
As horrifying as this is, I can't help but feel like there is more to it or something big behind the scenes that the public has not been informed of. The men were part of a gang, and the couple may or not have been entirely innocent. While it's possible that it simply might have been this couple's misfortune to meet these gang members, the fact that the act was so brutal and emotionally charged (for example, they covered the woman in garbage bags until she suffocated to death) leads me to believe that it was not a killing simply to kill; in other words, there must have been a reason for them to act so brutally and inhumanly.
Not to get too political, but first of all the fact that they were part of a gang (where violence is the norm) and probably poor and in the deep South shows that this was not a random act. They could have chose any other white couple, but the fact that they chose this one must mean something important. To be honest I'm surprised that someone who can mutilate and destroy a person so completely does not have suicidal thoughts; if I were to carry out this act I would just kill myself before my conscience takes over. There is no way any sane person could live with these thoughts and images for the rest of their lives without taking their own lives just to end their own suffering and misery. There must be something fundamentally wrong with these people who carried this out; as bad as your circumstances can make you, you will never commit an act like this unless there is faulty wiring in the first place.
Maybe the couple were not as innocent as they were portrayed to be. It's possible that they might have provoked this as well. Maybe their families were involved with politics or something; maybe the gang found the actions of this couple or their relatives offensive.
Of course none of this justifies this terrible incident. But you have to wonder if there is more to the story than we are being told. You have to wonder whether hundreds of years of injustice, discrimination, or systematized racism or downright bigotry or corrupt politics or gang violence or simply the conformity or naivette of most young white middle-class couples was somehow implicated in this. Maybe things we can't even see or begin to fathom or imagine or powers far beyond ourselves boiled down to this single remote isolated incident.
......... The General section "generally" bothers me a lot..... but this thread has just skyrocketed "bothers me" to "urghhhhhhghghajsdlkfjutksdfkjasd;fgnffksjdfasdf;k"
This is absolutely disgusting. How can people do this to others? even if the couple did something to provoke this it went way farther then it ever should of and only 1 of them got the death penalty, Thats bull shit even lethal injection is better then what they did to that couple fuck give them the chair at least. I hope they get Fucked up in prison...
wow prison or lethal injection is too good for these people they should be castrated and burned then put in hole where they have to eat there own shit just my opinion
There is a part of me that is just utterly sickened and enraged by news like this.This part of me says they should be sentenced to death and that all murderers and rapists should be as well.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
I agree with you on some level because of the level or degree in what the crime is, I would also like to say that I hope none of you are viewing this as a racial situation because it's not! People in this world are cruel and the same type of people that committed the crime can be found in every race of man do not forget that. You would be wise to remember that before you start hating others over anything.
I say death only because I like to judge people by their deeds and this deed is most foul and we should return the good favor to the perpetrators. I also read up on it on wiki but most of the information was about the political circus that ensued in politics and the media. I truly hate it when people die and it is used to further a political agenda.
If it were up to me I honestly would like to kill them myself but meh not my job to do so, though the seriousness of the crime does weigh heavy on me being black. However that in itself will not change my ways or how I view things in life for I love and hate everyone equally and this goes for every race I interact with.
Ps. I really think that they all should have been given the death penalty no need to even spend a minute talking to them.
The judge that oversaw this case was actually my dad's drug court judge. Judge Bumgardener was on pills, that he bought from a felon in his drug court, during this trail. They are calling for a retrial now because of this. I lived in Knoxville at the time and had distant friends that knew these people. Sad really. =\
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
Rehabilitation is just one of the purposes of imprisonment, and prison generally is not very effective at rehabilitating prisoners. A common misconception about the death penalty is that it would save the tax payer loads of money. Death penalty is not cheap and arguably more expensive then a life sentence.
I do not want to incite a whole capital punishment discussion in this thread and i get why people want those fcks put to death for their crimes, it's an insanely horrible, cruel crime. But just a side note.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
Rehabilitation is just one of the purposes of imprisonment, and prison generally is not very effective at rehabilitating prisoners. A common misconception about the death penalty is that it would save the tax payer loads of money. Death penalty is not cheap and arguably more expensive then a life sentence.
I do not want to incite a whole capital punishment discussion in this thread and i get why people want those fcks put to death for their crimes, it's an insanely horrible, cruel crime. But just a side note.
It's not very easy to argue against the fact that life sentences are more expensive than life behind bars anyway. It can be, but then you find yourself executing innocent people - it has happened (namely in Texas - after spending millions of dollars in man-time) and it will happen again. Given a decent justice system, it costs a lot of money to collect evidence - because the degree of evidence required for capital punishment should naturally be higher than what you need for a regular conviction.
One good thing about prison is that if you're found not guilty, you can come out. Getting murdered by your Country doesn't offer that possibility.
Obviously we could go China-style and execute people really quickly with very little cost to the State, and never look back... but omg would I not want to be the one guy being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Just to clarify something. The BLACK people who did this, are animals. Also the white people in this story are animals. Because the human race are "Mammels". There fore we're all animals.. Technically.. But anyway, this is so terrible it makes me want to cry that this happened, I wish people weren't like this, or we had some kind of device to predict things like this would happen.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish criminals and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish criminals and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
A bullet in the head for each of them equals five bullets. You could probably get that for about 6 bucks at walmart.
Also, I think it's clear that there is proof. The fact that the judge was on drugs just means they have to do a retrial, not that any of the evidence against them has changed.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
why is it sometimes necessary?
Although i personally do not think so, it most likely is the regard that it is the only way of 'justice'. Retribution for relatives. An eye for an eye etc.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish criminals and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
A bullet in the head for each of them equals five bullets. You could probably get that for about 6 bucks at walmart.
Also, I think it's clear that there is proof. The fact that the judge was on drugs just means they have to do a retrial, not that any of the evidence against them has changed.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish criminals and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
A bullet in the head for each of them equals five bullets. You could probably get that for about 6 bucks at walmart.
Also, I think it's clear that there is proof. The fact that the judge was on drugs just means they have to do a retrial, not that any of the evidence against them has changed.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish criminals and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
A bullet in the head for each of them equals five bullets. You could probably get that for about 6 bucks at walmart.
Also, I think it's clear that there is proof. The fact that the judge was on drugs just means they have to do a retrial, not that any of the evidence against them has changed.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
Rehabilitation is just one of the purposes of imprisonment, and prison generally is not very effective at rehabilitating prisoners. A common misconception about the death penalty is that it would save the tax payer loads of money. Death penalty is not cheap and arguably more expensive then a life sentence.
I do not want to incite a whole capital punishment discussion in this thread and i get why people want those fcks put to death for their crimes, it's an insanely horrible, cruel crime. But just a side note.
Lend me a gun, and buy me a bullet.
For the low low price of a bullet, you just did what needed to be done.
To me, it doesnt matter what race/sex/religion a person is. You do something like this, then you dont deserve the right to walk to the same earth as the rest of us normal people. Hope they burn in hell.
To the above poster. Without hesitation, i would pull the trigger. I would be happy to send these dispicable people straight to hell.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish criminals and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
A bullet in the head for each of them equals five bullets. You could probably get that for about 6 bucks at walmart.
Also, I think it's clear that there is proof. The fact that the judge was on drugs just means they have to do a retrial, not that any of the evidence against them has changed.
So if it's up to you the US would, if there is enough evidence, execute it's citizens with a bullet through the head? edit: nvm i guess you are.
I'm against the death penalty, not because i think it's inhumane, but simply because i think that's a waste, not to mention, bit unquantifiable (10 years in prison vs 20 years can be compared but death? hard to quantify; could mean different things to different people).
Instead, I suggest that these really bad criminals, beyond rehabilitation, should be sent to concentration camps to do hard labor for rest of their lives. This serves a few purposes; this is probably worse than death penalty for most people (maybe criminals will actually fear the criminal system now) and it is also malleable depending on the weight of their crimes (length of sentence and severity of labor). They will also be doing something is productive to society (make them mine or fertilize a desert or something like that), so that they at least make up partially for the harm they did to society. It also would lessen the strain on tax payer's money. I also think any profit they make should be sent to the victim and victim's families.
On December 10 2011 14:13 Veezy wrote: Oh wow fuck human beings for being to do shit like this...
Kill those motherfuckers, and take your time doing so
yeah totally, these motherfuckers are awful for killing people and taking their time doing so. the government should totally make us feel better by...killing some people and taking their time doing so.
I don't know, I don't get that sense of bloodthirst when I hear about terrible crimes. I'm also not personally more afraid of death than I am of a shitty life in prison and I don't know that everyone is. I believe in due process - I really don't think it's very safe to just eyeball cases and decide whether or not they're "clear cut."
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
Rehabilitation is just one of the purposes of imprisonment, and prison generally is not very effective at rehabilitating prisoners. A common misconception about the death penalty is that it would save the tax payer loads of money. Death penalty is not cheap and arguably more expensive then a life sentence.
I do not want to incite a whole capital punishment discussion in this thread and i get why people want those fcks put to death for their crimes, it's an insanely horrible, cruel crime. But just a side note.
Lend me a gun, and buy me a bullet.
For the low low price of a bullet, you just did what needed to be done.
To me, it doesnt matter what race/sex/religion a person is. You do something like this, then you dont deserve the right to walk to the same earth as the rest of us normal people. Hope they burn in hell.
To the above poster. Without hesitation, i would pull the trigger. I would be happy to send these dispicable people straight to hell.
you'd pull the trigger, watch their brain matter shoot out the back of their head, watch them collapse lifelessly into pools of blood, and just go about the rest of your day?
Without hesitation yes. I would have to live with the burden of knowing i did it for the rest of my life, i understand that. But i would not even hesitate. Those people are dispicable.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish criminals and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
A bullet in the head for each of them equals five bullets. You could probably get that for about 6 bucks at walmart.
Also, I think it's clear that there is proof. The fact that the judge was on drugs just means they have to do a retrial, not that any of the evidence against them has changed.
So if it's up to you the US would, if there is enough evidence, execute it's citizens with a bullet through the head? edit: nvm i guess you are.
Yep a person found guilty of murdering and raping two people would be executed if there was enough evidence and a conviction with an applicable death penalty. It's called capital punishment, and yes we do it.
On December 10 2011 14:20 phosphorylation wrote: I'm against the death penalty, not because i think it's inhumane, but simply because i think that's a waste, not to mention, bit unquantifiable (10 years in prison vs 20 years can be compared but death? hard to quantify; could mean different things to different people).
Instead, I suggest that these really bad criminals, beyond rehabilitation, should be sent to concentration camps to do hard labor for rest of their lives. This serves a few purposes; this is probably worse than death penalty for most people (maybe criminals will actually fear the criminal system now) and it is also malleable depending on the weight of their crimes (length of sentence and severity of labor). They will also be doing something is productive to society (make them mine or fertilize a desert or something like that), so that they at least make up partially for the harm they did to society. It also would lessen the strain on tax payer's money. I also think any profit they make should be sent to the victim and victim's families.
To an extent, I agree with this. I think isolation from the rest of humanity for the rest of their life (ie solitary confinement) would be much worse than a death penalty. If you've ever seen that episode of law and order (it's in season 12) where they have that guy explain what solitary confinement is like, I think it much better suits it. Or throw them in a prison cell full of other rapists and let at it.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish criminals and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
A bullet in the head for each of them equals five bullets. You could probably get that for about 6 bucks at walmart.
Also, I think it's clear that there is proof. The fact that the judge was on drugs just means they have to do a retrial, not that any of the evidence against them has changed.
So if it's up to you the US would, if there is enough evidence, execute it's citizens with a bullet through the head? edit: nvm i guess you are.
Yep a person found guilty of murdering and raping two people would be executed if there was enough evidence and a conviction with an applicable death penalty. It's called capital punishment, and yes we do it.
On December 10 2011 14:20 phosphorylation wrote: I'm against the death penalty, not because i think it's inhumane, but simply because i think that's a waste, not to mention, bit unquantifiable (10 years in prison vs 20 years can be compared but death? hard to quantify; could mean different things to different people).
Instead, I suggest that these really bad criminals, beyond rehabilitation, should be sent to concentration camps to do hard labor for rest of their lives. This serves a few purposes; this is probably worse than death penalty for most people (maybe criminals will actually fear the criminal system now) and it is also malleable depending on the weight of their crimes (length of sentence and severity of labor). They will also be doing something is productive to society (make them mine or fertilize a desert or something like that), so that they at least make up partially for the harm they did to society. It also would lessen the strain on tax payer's money. I also think any profit they make should be sent to the victim and victim's families.
To an extent, I agree with this. I think isolation from the rest of humanity for the rest of their life (ie solitary confinement) would be much worse than a death penalty. If you've ever seen that episode of law and order (it's in season 12) where they have that guy explain what solitary confinement is like, I think it much better suits it. Or throw them in a prison cell full of other rapists and let at it.
Have you even read the last pages? I was arguing capital punishment in general is more expensive to the tax payer then a life sentence. The fact that in this case there might be clear evidence doesnt change that. Then you point out the price of bullets at walmart; that's pretty absurd and i was reacting on that as a method of execution.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish criminals and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
A bullet in the head for each of them equals five bullets. You could probably get that for about 6 bucks at walmart.
Also, I think it's clear that there is proof. The fact that the judge was on drugs just means they have to do a retrial, not that any of the evidence against them has changed.
So if it's up to you the US would, if there is enough evidence, execute it's citizens with a bullet through the head? edit: nvm i guess you are.
Yep a person found guilty of murdering and raping two people would be executed if there was enough evidence and a conviction with an applicable death penalty. It's called capital punishment, and yes we do it.
On December 10 2011 14:20 phosphorylation wrote: I'm against the death penalty, not because i think it's inhumane, but simply because i think that's a waste, not to mention, bit unquantifiable (10 years in prison vs 20 years can be compared but death? hard to quantify; could mean different things to different people).
Instead, I suggest that these really bad criminals, beyond rehabilitation, should be sent to concentration camps to do hard labor for rest of their lives. This serves a few purposes; this is probably worse than death penalty for most people (maybe criminals will actually fear the criminal system now) and it is also malleable depending on the weight of their crimes (length of sentence and severity of labor). They will also be doing something is productive to society (make them mine or fertilize a desert or something like that), so that they at least make up partially for the harm they did to society. It also would lessen the strain on tax payer's money. I also think any profit they make should be sent to the victim and victim's families.
To an extent, I agree with this. I think isolation from the rest of humanity for the rest of their life (ie solitary confinement) would be much worse than a death penalty. If you've ever seen that episode of law and order (it's in season 12) where they have that guy explain what solitary confinement is like, I think it much better suits it. Or throw them in a prison cell full of other rapists and let at it.
Have you even read the last pages? I was arguing capital punishment in general is more expensive to the tax payer then a life sentence. The fact that in this case there might be clear evidence doesnt change that. Then you point out the price of bullets at walmart; that's pretty absurd and i was reacting on that as a method of execution.
Also, law and order? Lulz.
I was using an example law and order episode that used a real life testimony of solitary confinement?
And yes I've read the last few pages, maybe you're missing my point. If instead of setting up everything involved in the cost of a lethal inject, we just use one bullet, it would be a lot cheaper. Is that to hard for you to understand or do you purposely ridicule others posts which you disagree with because you don't understand?
A black preacher releases a statement telling all black people to rape and kill white people..... NOTHING happens to him
Imagine a white person went public and told all white people to rape and kill black people. The shitstorm that would follow. Fucking double-standard. This isn't the first person to do this either
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish criminals and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
A bullet in the head for each of them equals five bullets. You could probably get that for about 6 bucks at walmart.
Also, I think it's clear that there is proof. The fact that the judge was on drugs just means they have to do a retrial, not that any of the evidence against them has changed.
So if it's up to you the US would, if there is enough evidence, execute it's citizens with a bullet through the head? edit: nvm i guess you are.
Yep a person found guilty of murdering and raping two people would be executed if there was enough evidence and a conviction with an applicable death penalty. It's called capital punishment, and yes we do it.
On December 10 2011 14:20 phosphorylation wrote: I'm against the death penalty, not because i think it's inhumane, but simply because i think that's a waste, not to mention, bit unquantifiable (10 years in prison vs 20 years can be compared but death? hard to quantify; could mean different things to different people).
Instead, I suggest that these really bad criminals, beyond rehabilitation, should be sent to concentration camps to do hard labor for rest of their lives. This serves a few purposes; this is probably worse than death penalty for most people (maybe criminals will actually fear the criminal system now) and it is also malleable depending on the weight of their crimes (length of sentence and severity of labor). They will also be doing something is productive to society (make them mine or fertilize a desert or something like that), so that they at least make up partially for the harm they did to society. It also would lessen the strain on tax payer's money. I also think any profit they make should be sent to the victim and victim's families.
To an extent, I agree with this. I think isolation from the rest of humanity for the rest of their life (ie solitary confinement) would be much worse than a death penalty. If you've ever seen that episode of law and order (it's in season 12) where they have that guy explain what solitary confinement is like, I think it much better suits it. Or throw them in a prison cell full of other rapists and let at it.
Have you even read the last pages? I was arguing capital punishment in general is more expensive to the tax payer then a life sentence. The fact that in this case there might be clear evidence doesnt change that. Then you point out the price of bullets at walmart; that's pretty absurd and i was reacting on that as a method of execution.
Also, law and order? Lulz.
I was using an example law and order episode that used a real life testimony of solitary confinement?
And yes I've read the last few pages, maybe you're missing my point. If instead of setting up everything involved in the cost of a lethal inject, we just use one bullet, it would be a lot cheaper. Is that to hard for you to understand or do you purposely ridicule others posts which you disagree with because you don't understand?
Ok now you stated it clearly, so yes i do understand. You would really be ok if the US was executing convicted criminals with a bullet in the head. To me that's absurd but each his own opinion. I guess the end result is the same so in that sense you are right. But the method of excecution is not the factor that makes capital punishment more expensive. As someone pointed out before it's the higher costs of trials to ensure no innocent person is put to death. (One of the main reasons i PERSONALLY am against it. No matter how high requirements for evidence are, in time, an unfortunate individual will be wrongfully executed.)
And ok, i didn't know law and order used real life testimonies. My bad.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish criminals and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
A bullet in the head for each of them equals five bullets. You could probably get that for about 6 bucks at walmart.
Also, I think it's clear that there is proof. The fact that the judge was on drugs just means they have to do a retrial, not that any of the evidence against them has changed.
So if it's up to you the US would, if there is enough evidence, execute it's citizens with a bullet through the head? edit: nvm i guess you are.
Yep a person found guilty of murdering and raping two people would be executed if there was enough evidence and a conviction with an applicable death penalty. It's called capital punishment, and yes we do it.
On December 10 2011 14:20 phosphorylation wrote: I'm against the death penalty, not because i think it's inhumane, but simply because i think that's a waste, not to mention, bit unquantifiable (10 years in prison vs 20 years can be compared but death? hard to quantify; could mean different things to different people).
Instead, I suggest that these really bad criminals, beyond rehabilitation, should be sent to concentration camps to do hard labor for rest of their lives. This serves a few purposes; this is probably worse than death penalty for most people (maybe criminals will actually fear the criminal system now) and it is also malleable depending on the weight of their crimes (length of sentence and severity of labor). They will also be doing something is productive to society (make them mine or fertilize a desert or something like that), so that they at least make up partially for the harm they did to society. It also would lessen the strain on tax payer's money. I also think any profit they make should be sent to the victim and victim's families.
To an extent, I agree with this. I think isolation from the rest of humanity for the rest of their life (ie solitary confinement) would be much worse than a death penalty. If you've ever seen that episode of law and order (it's in season 12) where they have that guy explain what solitary confinement is like, I think it much better suits it. Or throw them in a prison cell full of other rapists and let at it.
Have you even read the last pages? I was arguing capital punishment in general is more expensive to the tax payer then a life sentence. The fact that in this case there might be clear evidence doesnt change that. Then you point out the price of bullets at walmart; that's pretty absurd and i was reacting on that as a method of execution.
Also, law and order? Lulz.
I was using an example law and order episode that used a real life testimony of solitary confinement?
And yes I've read the last few pages, maybe you're missing my point. If instead of setting up everything involved in the cost of a lethal inject, we just use one bullet, it would be a lot cheaper. Is that to hard for you to understand or do you purposely ridicule others posts which you disagree with because you don't understand?
Ok now you stated it clearly, so yes i do understand. You would really be ok if the US was executing convicted criminals with a bullet in the head. To me that's absurd but each has it's opinion. I guess the end result is the same so in that sense you are right. But the method of excecution is not the factor that makes capital punishment more expensive. As someone pointed out before it's the higher costs of trials to ensure no innocent person is put to death. (One of the main reasons i PERSONALLY am against it. No matter how high requirements for evidence are, in time, an unfortunate individual will be wrongfully executed.)
And ok, i didn't know law and order used real life testimonies. My bad.
I tend to be under the persuasion that the how isn't important since it's all death in the end. Something about being humane to murders I guess.
On December 10 2011 06:45 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On December 10 2011 05:35 neoghaleon55 wrote: Stories like these make me support the death penalty. We need artificial genetic selection, dammit! ...lol go texas!
I would support execution in this case, but no... we don't need to follow the eugenicism of 19th century Britain or 20th century Germany on top of that. No thanks.
The United States had a prominent eugenics program. You should really think twice before trying to be clever with comments like these.
I take it this is some dark secret I haven't heard of?
On December 10 2011 06:45 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On December 10 2011 05:35 neoghaleon55 wrote: Stories like these make me support the death penalty. We need artificial genetic selection, dammit! ...lol go texas!
I would support execution in this case, but no... we don't need to follow the eugenicism of 19th century Britain or 20th century Germany on top of that. No thanks.
The United States had a prominent eugenics program. You should really think twice before trying to be clever with comments like these.
I take it this is some dark secret I haven't heard of?
This was before World War 2: there were no such things as secret laws back then. It was all done openly.
On December 10 2011 06:45 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On December 10 2011 05:35 neoghaleon55 wrote: Stories like these make me support the death penalty. We need artificial genetic selection, dammit! ...lol go texas!
I would support execution in this case, but no... we don't need to follow the eugenicism of 19th century Britain or 20th century Germany on top of that. No thanks.
The United States had a prominent eugenics program. You should really think twice before trying to be clever with comments like these.
I take it this is some dark secret I haven't heard of?
Its not even really secret, people just dont really talk about it much On topic though, i wonder why people are so intrigued by topics like these. For me personally its that i see yet another thing to be angry at, and that helps me take my mind of shit that happens in my own life to make me angry!
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
Ugh seriously? Yeah yeah, enough with "an eye for an eye makes everyone blind" bull shit. Let's see if you felt the same way after your very own father and mother we're the victims in this case, would you still be screaming out for peace to the ones who committed the crime?
What kind of kinder garden argument is that? There is no room for bias in the justice system, if we treated every crime as if we were the victims, judging from a place of emotion rather than logic, society would fall apart.
Befree's argument that we cant punish people for their "genetics" (as if there was a "criminal" gene...) or upbringing is obviously idiotic though, because then nobody would be responsible for their actions. There is such a thing as free will and every action that anyone has a ever made has a consequence and we are all responsible for what we do.Even the most horrible upbringing that somebody has been through doesn't give you a free pass to commit horrible actions.
Actually, there's a big philosophical debate about that subject. Is is actually true that most pepole have free will? Or are most pepole simply slaves to their emotions and education.
Yes, it's entirely true if you ignore all the philosophical bullshit. Based on neurological evidence it's quite apparent that we have "free will", or the ability to act according to our own choices without constraints. These decisions might be influenced by our environments, but there is no doubt that all our actions elicited begin at neocortical/prefrontal regions.
If you generate the intentional thought to kill someone, who cares about your upbringing or any of that. Focus on the fact that you generated an intentional action that resulted in someone's death. It doesn't matter if your actions were influenced by your upbringing, YOU were still responsible for the action (hint, using "you" here in the general sense). The only way it's remotely arguable that one is not responsible for their actions in a murder case is when it is found that in fact that action was unintentional, such as in manslaughter cases -- accidents do occur, but when there is no accident, there is intent.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
Ugh seriously? Yeah yeah, enough with "an eye for an eye makes everyone blind" bull shit. Let's see if you felt the same way after your very own father and mother we're the victims in this case, would you still be screaming out for peace to the ones who committed the crime?
What kind of kinder garden argument is that? There is no room for bias in the justice system, if we treated every crime as if we were the victims, judging from a place of emotion rather than logic, society would fall apart.
Befree's argument that we cant punish people for their "genetics" (as if there was a "criminal" gene...) or upbringing is obviously idiotic though, because then nobody would be responsible for their actions. There is such a thing as free will and every action that anyone has a ever made has a consequence and we are all responsible for what we do.Even the most horrible upbringing that somebody has been through doesn't give you a free pass to commit horrible actions.
Actually, there's a big philosophical debate about that subject. Is is actually true that most pepole have free will? Or are most pepole simply slaves to their emotions and education.
Yes, it's entirely true if you ignore all the philosophical bullshit. Based on neurological evidence it's quite apparent that we have "free will", or the ability to act according to our own choices without constraints. These decisions might be influenced by our environments, but there is no doubt that all our actions elicited begin at neocortical/prefrontal regions.
I thought the neurological evidence rather suggested that most people begin a course of action before being consciously aware of any decisionmaking on their own part?
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
Ugh seriously? Yeah yeah, enough with "an eye for an eye makes everyone blind" bull shit. Let's see if you felt the same way after your very own father and mother we're the victims in this case, would you still be screaming out for peace to the ones who committed the crime?
What kind of kinder garden argument is that? There is no room for bias in the justice system, if we treated every crime as if we were the victims, judging from a place of emotion rather than logic, society would fall apart.
Befree's argument that we cant punish people for their "genetics" (as if there was a "criminal" gene...) or upbringing is obviously idiotic though, because then nobody would be responsible for their actions. There is such a thing as free will and every action that anyone has a ever made has a consequence and we are all responsible for what we do.Even the most horrible upbringing that somebody has been through doesn't give you a free pass to commit horrible actions.
Actually, there's a big philosophical debate about that subject. Is is actually true that most pepole have free will? Or are most pepole simply slaves to their emotions and education.
Yes, it's entirely true if you ignore all the philosophical bullshit. Based on neurological evidence it's quite apparent that we have "free will", or the ability to act according to our own choices without constraints. These decisions might be influenced by our environments, but there is no doubt that all our actions elicited begin at neocortical/prefrontal regions.
I thought the neurological evidence rather suggested that most people begin a course of action before being consciously aware of any decisionmaking on their own part?
There are electrical activities that are initiated before you act, but that actually proves it's you that is in control of your actions. Your brain. Not someone else's.
It doesn't take philosophy or neuroscience to prove that free will doesn't make sense. All it takes is common sense. Everything in the entire universe is necessarily either determined or arbitrary. The suggestion of a third possibility is nonsense, metaphysical voodoo, philosophical astrology.
the crux of any argument for or against free will lies in defining what "free will" means. before you have a clear definition of free will you really cannot say whether or not free will exists. does such a concept entail solely that we are allowed to act out our desires free of limiting external influence or does it go further and suggest that we arrive at our conclusions without any external influence at all? look up determinism, compatibilism, and incommpatibilism for a start.
This is the most despicable heinous and barbaric act I've ever heard of. The ruling was overturned and they are facing a new trial? Fucking send them all to death row IMO.... the world is better off without sick people like this.
On December 10 2011 09:46 Selth wrote: I feel wrong having not been fully sickened by this story... That being said, a lot of good points brought up in this bump and they've enlightened me a bit about this world we live in. I honestly don't know where I stand in terms of punishing them at this point with the current system in place.
Hey, when you've heard enough stories like this on senseless violence towards another human being, you tend to become nonreactive towards them.
Always been against the DP and I will stand by my opinion on it.
I just don't see how this line of thought is even possible given the horror of the crime involved. I seriously doubt these people could be rehabilitated, and even if they could, they don't deserve the chance. And putting them in prison for life is still allowing them to live. Regardless of what conditions they might be in, life is still better than death in almost any scenario (there are some obvious exceptions, but prison is not one of them.)
Kill them, rid the world of scum, and save millions of taxpayers dollars.
I fully agree with your first sentence.
In my life, I never believed in it. But then some occurrences like this I feel rage and hatred towards them, and want them removed from the planet immediately.
Maybe this will sound corny, but I believe in a chance of redemption. Not necessarily on a religious scale, but just through contemplation. I would like to think they can make peace with themselves while they sit in prison for the rest of their lives. Not just claiming they have, but having legitimately thought about why the did it, what happened as a result, and the poor people that no longer live because of their actions.
I think all these people who committed these crimes should have to undergo the same horrendous torture they inflicted on these people and then be left to rot in jail. This is absolutely disgusting.
This was just horrible. What the hell is wrong with people. And how did this turn into a race debate?
Some fucked up people did something I couldn't imagine in my worst nightmare and people are discussing their skin color? Are you serious? Is that what comes to mind?
I am more curious about how a human being is even capable of doing something like this fucked up. Who gives 2 cents about their skin color, hair color or eye color?!
On December 11 2011 08:59 papaz wrote: I shouldn't have read this. I feel sick
This was just horrible. What the hell is wrong with people. And how did this turn into a race debate?
Some fucked up people did something I couldn't imagine in my worst nightmare and people are discussing their skin color? Are you serious? Is that what comes to mind?
I am more curious about how a human being is even capable of doing something like this fucked up. Who gives 2 cents about their skin color, hair color or eye color?!
RIP Channon and Christopher
Well put. This despicable act remains despicable regardless of who commits it.
I have read this, now Im pissed like hell. The killers could be blind deaf albino chinease people with read hair on a wheelchairs, it does not matter. I have always been agains death penalty, but.. well that kind of fucked up shis just makes u think, what if..
I don't know.. If a group of people attacks, mutilates and rapes another group of people, where the individuals of each group were exclusively of a different race, then there is always the possibility that the motive was racial.
On December 10 2011 17:26 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On December 10 2011 07:49 lolmlg wrote:
On December 10 2011 06:45 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
On December 10 2011 05:35 neoghaleon55 wrote: Stories like these make me support the death penalty. We need artificial genetic selection, dammit! ...lol go texas!
I would support execution in this case, but no... we don't need to follow the eugenicism of 19th century Britain or 20th century Germany on top of that. No thanks.
The United States had a prominent eugenics program. You should really think twice before trying to be clever with comments like these.
I take it this is some dark secret I haven't heard of?
This was before World War 2: there were no such things as secret laws back then. It was all done openly.
In 1970 (I think) there were a couple states still practicing sterilization of people they deemed "unfit parents".
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
Ugh seriously? Yeah yeah, enough with "an eye for an eye makes everyone blind" bull shit. Let's see if you felt the same way after your very own father and mother we're the victims in this case, would you still be screaming out for peace to the ones who committed the crime?
What kind of kinder garden argument is that? There is no room for bias in the justice system, if we treated every crime as if we were the victims, judging from a place of emotion rather than logic, society would fall apart.
Befree's argument that we cant punish people for their "genetics" (as if there was a "criminal" gene...) or upbringing is obviously idiotic though, because then nobody would be responsible for their actions. There is such a thing as free will and every action that anyone has a ever made has a consequence and we are all responsible for what we do.Even the most horrible upbringing that somebody has been through doesn't give you a free pass to commit horrible actions.
Actually, there's a big philosophical debate about that subject. Is is actually true that most pepole have free will? Or are most pepole simply slaves to their emotions and education.
Yes, it's entirely true if you ignore all the philosophical bullshit. Based on neurological evidence it's quite apparent that we have "free will", or the ability to act according to our own choices without constraints. These decisions might be influenced by our environments, but there is no doubt that all our actions elicited begin at neocortical/prefrontal regions.
I thought the neurological evidence rather suggested that most people begin a course of action before being consciously aware of any decisionmaking on their own part?
There are electrical activities that are initiated before you act, but that actually proves it's you that is in control of your actions. Your brain. Not someone else's.
I was with Hunter in being surprised that you cited neurological evidence to counter the claim that it's controversial whether or not most people have free will (why the "most" Ragebot? There is a philosophical debate but both sides generally think that it's going to be all or none, not some or most). When I saw the term "neurological evidence" I assumed that you were going to cite the Libet experiments to show that the debate has been closed in favor of us not having free will.
Quite the contrary, this latest post reveals that you're at least somewhat familiar with these experiments but have concluded that they prove free will's existence. This is an amazingly heterodoxical interpretation (it certainly isn't what Libet thought), and I'm not quite sure how you arrived at it.
As a brief background to those not familiar, the experiments in question basically showed that for a range of seemingly freely chosen behaviors, our supposed acts of choosing (or at least our consciousness thereof) take place after the processes in the brain that determine our choices. At least for the type of actions tested (and plausibly all actions) this has generally been taken to show that what we experience as our free will does not actually determine our actions. It is merely an awareness we receive of how we are about to act which is caused by the same underlying neurological processes that result in the action itself.
You counter this interpretation by noting that it all happens in "Your brain", but honestly I don't feel the force of that objection. Of course it happens in your brain; who else's brain would it occur in? The worry for free will here is that we don't have the antecedent control over our brain states necessary to make us responsible for actions determined by our brain with no further input from what we take to be our choosing.
If you're simply trying to argue a compatibilist position, then I can understand that (though I certainly wouldn't call the alternative "philosophical bullshit"). But if you're doing something else, I don't know what that is.
On December 10 2011 12:19 Probe1 wrote: I grew up staunchly against capital punishment but the older I get the more I realize how much it's needed. You can deter shoplifters by sending them to jail for the weekend. Murderers can fear capital punishment and life in prison.
But when it comes to this, there needs to be less fanfare and discussion. Just a summary execution. There should be a point where we all agree to just skip formality, wasting no more than 3 minutes and 5 bullets on these fucks. Who actually wants to see any of them remorseful or rehabilitated. Fuck that.
Our culture has gotten so bloated with wet foot dry foot that it's acceptable to bomb the living shit out a wedding on accident but not vivisect 5 sick bastards that mutilated and murdered an random innocent couple.
Agreed. The purpose of prison is to rehabilitate, and if they cannot be rehabilitated, they are sucking tax payer money from the budget, and should just be killed because they are such a huge minus on society.
The cost our country spends on each death penalty prisoner is greater than it costs to hold a man in prison for life. The purpose of prison is not exclusively to rehabilitate, or else there would be no life sentences. Sometimes the purpose is just to punish criminals and educate the general community that committing crimes does not pay.
That being said, while I believe that our death penalty system is severely flawed, it is hard not to feel that it is sometimes necessary for people who commit truly heinous crimes.
However, you must remember that in our nation, innocence is assumed until guilt is proven. In some cases it is easy to say "why don't we just kill them and get it over with", but think about how this might affect less clear-cut cases... a quick execution might mean an innocent man dies before other evidence is found that might exonerate them (over 100 exonerations of death penalty inmates have occurred in the last few decades, and this number is quickly increasing with the improvement of technology like DNA matching.)
A bullet in the head for each of them equals five bullets. You could probably get that for about 6 bucks at walmart.
Also, I think it's clear that there is proof. The fact that the judge was on drugs just means they have to do a retrial, not that any of the evidence against them has changed.
So if it's up to you the US would, if there is enough evidence, execute it's citizens with a bullet through the head? edit: nvm i guess you are.
Yep a person found guilty of murdering and raping two people would be executed if there was enough evidence and a conviction with an applicable death penalty. It's called capital punishment, and yes we do it.
On December 10 2011 14:20 phosphorylation wrote: I'm against the death penalty, not because i think it's inhumane, but simply because i think that's a waste, not to mention, bit unquantifiable (10 years in prison vs 20 years can be compared but death? hard to quantify; could mean different things to different people).
Instead, I suggest that these really bad criminals, beyond rehabilitation, should be sent to concentration camps to do hard labor for rest of their lives. This serves a few purposes; this is probably worse than death penalty for most people (maybe criminals will actually fear the criminal system now) and it is also malleable depending on the weight of their crimes (length of sentence and severity of labor). They will also be doing something is productive to society (make them mine or fertilize a desert or something like that), so that they at least make up partially for the harm they did to society. It also would lessen the strain on tax payer's money. I also think any profit they make should be sent to the victim and victim's families.
To an extent, I agree with this. I think isolation from the rest of humanity for the rest of their life (ie solitary confinement) would be much worse than a death penalty. If you've ever seen that episode of law and order (it's in season 12) where they have that guy explain what solitary confinement is like, I think it much better suits it. Or throw them in a prison cell full of other rapists and let at it.
Have you even read the last pages? I was arguing capital punishment in general is more expensive to the tax payer then a life sentence. The fact that in this case there might be clear evidence doesnt change that. Then you point out the price of bullets at walmart; that's pretty absurd and i was reacting on that as a method of execution.
Also, law and order? Lulz.
I was using an example law and order episode that used a real life testimony of solitary confinement?
And yes I've read the last few pages, maybe you're missing my point. If instead of setting up everything involved in the cost of a lethal inject, we just use one bullet, it would be a lot cheaper. Is that to hard for you to understand or do you purposely ridicule others posts which you disagree with because you don't understand?
LOL. You really think the COST of the death penalty which is roughly 10x more than a life sentence is caused by the actual physical cost of the lethal injection? The cost difference is something like 180k for life in prison, and 1.2 million for the average death penalty case, which means you actually think a lethal injection is what is costing the other million dollars in fees?
No sir, no. It's lawyers fees, and all the extra work that goes into any potential death penalty that make it cost such an exuberant amount, not the actual cost of the execution.
On December 11 2011 09:33 Legate wrote: I don't know.. If a group of people attacks, mutilates and rapes another group of people, where the individuals of each group were exclusively of a different race, then there is always the possibility that the motive was racial.
Nobody argues it's generally wrong to think a conrete crime may be (at least partially) motivated racially. Obviously, a sadistic group of sexual murderers might also have been racist, however, that's not the "racial" concern the OP raises.
On December 10 2011 04:42 Befree wrote: What an awkwardly racist start to the thread in 2007. Certainly a lot of ignorance of news trends and basic logic.
Murder and rape are terrible things, but they happen a lot the world. If you're disturbed so deeply by this to want to kill the people, how exactly do you view all the terrible things that go on throughout the world every day? Arbitrarily picking out one particularly sensational story and making it some sort of exception isn't reasonable.
The idea of wanting to kill the accused, or these fantasies of causing them pain, I don't think are acceptable. I myself don't believe in retribution in general. I don't understand what sick drives cause people to crave the death of those who cause pain and I don't know what they imagine to be the benefit of it.
People are just products of their society/upbringing and their genes. Punishing people for the sake of retribution because of their genetics and childhood doesn't seem productive. We certainly want to discourage their appalling behavior and help them change their behavior, but just wanting to go out and kill them or torture them? For what purpose? To satisfy the irrational, ignorant, vindictive, violent drives of the average person? I oppose that.
Ugh seriously? Yeah yeah, enough with "an eye for an eye makes everyone blind" bull shit. Let's see if you felt the same way after your very own father and mother we're the victims in this case, would you still be screaming out for peace to the ones who committed the crime?
What kind of kinder garden argument is that? There is no room for bias in the justice system, if we treated every crime as if we were the victims, judging from a place of emotion rather than logic, society would fall apart.
Befree's argument that we cant punish people for their "genetics" (as if there was a "criminal" gene...) or upbringing is obviously idiotic though, because then nobody would be responsible for their actions. There is such a thing as free will and every action that anyone has a ever made has a consequence and we are all responsible for what we do.Even the most horrible upbringing that somebody has been through doesn't give you a free pass to commit horrible actions.
Actually, there's a big philosophical debate about that subject. Is is actually true that most pepole have free will? Or are most pepole simply slaves to their emotions and education.
Yes, it's entirely true if you ignore all the philosophical bullshit. Based on neurological evidence it's quite apparent that we have "free will", or the ability to act according to our own choices without constraints. These decisions might be influenced by our environments, but there is no doubt that all our actions elicited begin at neocortical/prefrontal regions.
I thought the neurological evidence rather suggested that most people begin a course of action before being consciously aware of any decisionmaking on their own part?
There are electrical activities that are initiated before you act, but that actually proves it's you that is in control of your actions. Your brain. Not someone else's.
There is also processor activity that happens before stuff occurs on the screen. Doesn't say anything about free will.
EPT
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