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Once again, as this is a sensitive topic and one that can cause a lot of unnecessary things to be said in the heat of the moment, be VERY careful about what you post. Think twice before actually stating something and please be considerate of anyone who may feel involved or affected. |
On July 15 2016 20:19 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 20:10 Incognoto wrote:On July 15 2016 19:30 stilt wrote:he liked salsa and girls. This stupid detail is relentlessly repeated over and over Well that just implies that he might be not an integrist in the last weeks or he was doing some dissimulation. I just watched the tv once so I didn't have time to lose at counting how much times this info can be repeated because in those news programms, they will have a lot of repetitions and useless stuffs.
I listened to the radio over lunch break and heard it like 5 times.
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On July 15 2016 19:44 DickMcFanny wrote:
I wonder what happens once those sub-humans realise all the US drone strikes are launched from Ramstein, Germany.
Aaaaand you disqualified yourself with that remark. The last people speaking about subhumans were hanged after the trials of Nürnberg and every person that says those words and means those words believes in a cancerous theory that killed way more people then radical islamic terrorist ever will.
As sad and horrific as it is, we need to keep living our way of life, we need to enable islamic countries to live better lives the way they want. I hope i don't think otherwise about it when my hometown is struck by something as horrific, as it is easy to ask for peace if you are not (yet) the target of lunatics.
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On July 15 2016 19:47 NukeD wrote:
In my opinion muslim community should really start speaking out against this shit and educate their fellow muslims who tend to be radicalized. I don't think we will ever be able to change anything as outsiders, it is a reform that islam needs from within and it's about time they started agresivelly condoning this behavior and preaching for tolerance to their brethren. I envision them as too passive on this.
I assume you meant condemning here and not condoning....completely changes the meaning of the sentence there.
You might not agree btw, but I have read a few articles about moderates "not doing enough" to speak out. I've also read that with each attack, religious leaders come out in force denouncing radical Islam and I'd at least think they should be vested when you consider the vast majority of attacks esp in the Middle East are against other Muslims. From the little I've read, (a lot of mainstream pubs have it, literally just Google it) the problem lies in either (regular or lay, not religious leaders) people not listening or being in a position to help or those speaking out getting drowned out esp in the mainstream media, and moderates standing up simply isn't getting reported as much. Like there are many a "Not in My Name" campaigns or similar on social media, so you know there is plenty of pushback, I just think the anti-radical movement in general is just constantly playing catchup and failing. Just my opinion.
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Where did he get the hand grenades from? ISIS cell?
France needs LePen more than ever, the country is going downhill fast.
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On July 15 2016 20:38 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Where did he get the hand grenades from? ISIS cell?
France needs LePen more than ever, the country is going downhill fast.
Obviously they arent going down fast enough for your taste.
Oh, and fake grenades are available in pretty much every costume shop and in many other places.
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Biff, Nebuchad, and others who refuse to do the reactionary "how high" when a terrorist says "jump": thank you for keeping nuance alive.
My condolences to everyone affected.
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On July 15 2016 09:02 Chewbacca. wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but is there some political reason as to why it seems like so many of these attacks occur in France and not other European nations? Has France done more to "wrong" these people than other nations? Are they accepting many more immigrants?
Not a lof of people are talking about this in this way, but here is my analysis.
France, despite its ideal for equality and social progress, is very much a segregated country, and this is my opinion the very reason why we are seeing so much attacks happening on France's soil. Of course, France's involvement in Africa and in the middle east is also a factor, but that's not what I want to talk about today.
For a bit of context, I want to talk about the two major immigration waves in France modern history:
-The first, from 1945 to 1970, mostly came from other european countries (Polish, Portuguese, Italians ...). This was during a period of huge prosperity and social progress, and the wealth created was more even shared across all of society.
Integration was not easy, despite the fact that most immigrants were caucasian and catholics. It was however very much possible and overall, the outcome was positive.
-The second wave, from 1970 onwards, came mostly from North Africa and happened during an economic downturn (1973 oil shock) and after a very chaotic end to France's colonial past (End of the Algerian war in 1962). With the latent racism and the poor economic conditions, a segregation settled in France. And the worst part about it is that no one is willing to acknowledge or even talk about it. If you look at France today, the poorest neighbourhood can be entirely comprised of immigrants, with huge unemployment rate, poor access to education, harsh and various discriminations and so on. These are real ghettos, and those ghettos are fertile grounds for violence, trafficking, and terrorism.
Now I will use a Game of Thrones analogy to explain my point (spoiler alert)
This economic and social disparity in France is like the underground of the Sept of Baelor filled with wildfire barrels. Radical islam ideology is the spark setting the whole thing ablaze. Don't kid yourself, most of the terrorism in France is homegrown.
Now, if you were to try to prevent the Sept of Baelor to blow up, what would you do ? Would you just keep on eye on the wildfire and make sure no spark would ever come close to it? Or would you try to remove the wildfire in the first place ?
My opinion is that we need to focus on fixing our social inequalities and discriminations plaguing or society. This is the only way to make the wildfire disappears. People will less likely blow themselves up if they have wealth, feel accepted, have a job, a family and a place in society. That is the real long term solution to terrorism, and pretty much everything else, including climate change and the debt crisis. Right now, inequalities are so high that it ressembles the pre-WW1 period. Things can only go worse if it continues like this.
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On July 15 2016 20:51 aXa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 09:02 Chewbacca. wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but is there some political reason as to why it seems like so many of these attacks occur in France and not other European nations? Has France done more to "wrong" these people than other nations? Are they accepting many more immigrants? My opinion is that we need to focus on fixing or social inequalities and discriminations that plague or society. This is the only way to make the wildfire disappears. People will less likely blow themselves up if they have wealth, feel accepted, have a job, a family and a place is society. That is the real long term solution to terrorism.
More people need to realize this.
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Excellent post, aXa, I agree.
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France9034 Posts
Definitely agree with aXa as well.
Alas, we'll get more state of emergency (which a fucking parliamentary report has deemed useless, talk about doing something dumb just because it looks like you're doing something about it), we'll get more hate bringing Marine Le Pen to the forefront which would be equivalent to France suiciding, as her party is, not even considering ideas, constituted mostly of incompetents, as they've proven again and again and again when they were lucky enough to get cities or parliamentary seats.
More hate, more sorrow, more Orwellian measures. Yeah, no, France doesn't look good right now.
And what saddens me the most is that, when you look at the timing, it's perfectly tailored so the government takes the worst decisions possible (timing the attack only 2 weeks before the government had to statute on the state of emergency). And once again, they'll award themselves another victory to the terrorists.
I live in a country governed by cretins.
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adding to axa's post, it is well known that it was mainly the father of martin bouygues (construction leader) that forced the hand of the politics back in the day, since getting immigrants from north africa was really good for their business (from their own words, these immigrants had no social clash history (strikes etc), and they would work for low wages)
that means they have been parked into giant banlieue between them with no plan of integration or whatever, and now we pay the price of it
meaning a state of almost civil war, i said some month ago that things like this are gonna happen way more often, and it's the case
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On July 15 2016 20:51 aXa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 09:02 Chewbacca. wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but is there some political reason as to why it seems like so many of these attacks occur in France and not other European nations? Has France done more to "wrong" these people than other nations? Are they accepting many more immigrants? Not a lof of people are talking about this in this way, but here is my analysis. France, despite its ideal for equality and social progress, is very much a segregated country, and this is my opinion the very reason why we are seeing so much attacks happening on France's soil. Of course, France's involvement in Africa and in the middle east is also a factor, but that's not what I want to talk about today. For a bit of context, I want to talk about the two major immigration waves in France modern history: -The first, from 1945 to 1970, mostly came from other european countries (Polish, Portuguese, Italians ...). This was during a period of huge prosperity and social progress, and the wealth created was more even shared across all of society. Integration was not easy, despite the fact that most immigrants were caucasian and catholics. It was however very much possible and overall, the outcome was positive. -The second wave, from 1970 onwards, came mostly from North Africa and happened during an economic downturn (1973 oil shock) and after a very chaotic end to France's colonial past (End of the Algerian war in 1962). With the latent racism and the poor economic conditions, a segregation settled in France. And the worst part about it is that no one is willing to acknowledge or even talk about it. If you look at France today, the poorest neighbourhood can be entirely comprised of immigrants, with huge unemployment rate, poor access to education, harsh and various discriminations and so on. These are real ghettos, and those ghettos are fertile ground for violence, trafficking, and terrorism. Now I will use a Game of Thrones analogy to explain my point (spoiler alert) This economic and social disparity in France is like the underground of the Sept of Baelor filled with wildfire barrels. Radical islam ideology is the spark setting the whole thing ablaze. Don't kid yourself, most of the terrorism in France is homegrown. Now, if you were to try to prevent the Sept of Baelor to blow up, what would you do ? Would you just keep on eye on the wildfire and make sure no spark would ever come close to it? Or would you try to remove the wildfire in the first place ? My opinion is that we need to focus on fixing our social inequalities and discriminations plaguing or society. This is the only way to make the wildfire disappears. People will less likely blow themselves up if they have wealth, feel accepted, have a job, a family and a place in society. That is the real long term solution to terrorism, and pretty much everything else, including climate change and the debt crisis. Right now, inequalities are so high that it ressembles the pre-WW1 period. Things can only go worse if it continues like this.
While it's good to acknowledge these factors, the reality is also that the extremism does not arise solely because of discrimination and inequality in Europe but is also propagated by money from wealthy donors in Gulf States and not enough is being done to cut this off. We see this extremist terrorism does not only arise in the poor by looking at examples such as Bin Laden who was from an extremely wealthy family and the recent massacre in Bangladesh where the perpetrators were all wealthy and highly educated. The ideology itself is strong and poisonous and not only the fault of Europe's governments and people. It has been given free reign to spread around the world and its fruits are arising everywhere. The west needs to put more pressure on the gulf states to reign this funding if there is to be any long term solution.
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On July 15 2016 20:51 aXa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 09:02 Chewbacca. wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but is there some political reason as to why it seems like so many of these attacks occur in France and not other European nations? Has France done more to "wrong" these people than other nations? Are they accepting many more immigrants? Not a lof of people are talking about this in this way, but here is my analysis. France, despite its ideal for equality and social progress, is very much a segregated country, and this is my opinion the very reason why we are seeing so much attacks happening on France's soil. Of course, France's involvement in Africa and in the middle east is also a factor, but that's not what I want to talk about today. For a bit of context, I want to talk about the two major immigration waves in France modern history: -The first, from 1945 to 1970, mostly came from other european countries (Polish, Portuguese, Italians ...). This was during a period of huge prosperity and social progress, and the wealth created was more even shared across all of society. Integration was not easy, despite the fact that most immigrants were caucasian and catholics. It was however very much possible and overall, the outcome was positive. -The second wave, from 1970 onwards, came mostly from North Africa and happened during an economic downturn (1973 oil shock) and after a very chaotic end to France's colonial past (End of the Algerian war in 1962). With the latent racism and the poor economic conditions, a segregation settled in France. And the worst part about it is that no one is willing to acknowledge or even talk about it. If you look at France today, the poorest neighbourhood can be entirely comprised of immigrants, with huge unemployment rate, poor access to education, harsh and various discriminations and so on. These are real ghettos, and those ghettos are fertile ground for violence, trafficking, and terrorism. Now I will use a Game of Thrones analogy to explain my point (spoiler alert) This economic and social disparity in France is like the underground of the Sept of Baelor filled with wildfire barrels. Radical islam ideology is the spark setting the whole thing ablaze. Don't kid yourself, most of the terrorism in France is homegrown. Now, if you were to try to prevent the Sept of Baelor to blow up, what would you do ? Would you just keep on eye on the wildfire and make sure no spark would ever come close to it? Or would you try to remove the wildfire in the first place ? My opinion is that we need to focus on fixing our social inequalities and discriminations plaguing or society. This is the only way to make the wildfire disappears. People will less likely blow themselves up if they have wealth, feel accepted, have a job, a family and a place in society. That is the real long term solution to terrorism, and pretty much everything else, including climate change and the debt crisis. Right now, inequalities are so high that it ressembles the pre-WW1 period. Things can only go worse if it continues like this.
1) The rise of unemployement, the austerity cure will make it even worse.
2) At Roubaix, there is a public school when there are only children of ex immigrants and a private one for others, I don't really blame individually the second because their child could be severely bullied (I have a example in mind) but as a society, yes, it shows segregation and communautarism.
3) Anyone who knows how to read a map will see that in any cities, there are spatial segregation, this might be inavoidable but could have been limited, this is inherited of the 19th Policy when the factories workers were kept away from their bosses and all the "good people".
4) Liberals love cultural mixity but they hate social mixity. A poor is a good person only when he is far away.
5) Roms are probably the most segreged minorities in France, their conditions of living are truly horrible but they don't blow up.
6) So talking about misery, segregation is not enough, ignoring the international context in a so interconnected word seems stupid, the version of Islam which is in progress is not a religion of peace and the traditionnal stuff we heard constantly.
7) If we begin to compromise laicity and our republic to this radical ideology like the liberals want, it will be a Victory for intergrism (and that's why I directly accuse them of friendship with integrism) which reinforces the ideology and the people behind it, making the task for "moderate" muslim (I don't really like the term) way harder, that's basically the only thing we can do in term of ideological answer while working and hoping for a better social and economical context which will give the edge to other form of Islam.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36923 Posts
My condolences... This is terrible. What horrible news to wake up to...
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On July 15 2016 20:51 aXa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 09:02 Chewbacca. wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but is there some political reason as to why it seems like so many of these attacks occur in France and not other European nations? Has France done more to "wrong" these people than other nations? Are they accepting many more immigrants? Not a lof of people are talking about this in this way, but here is my analysis. France, despite its ideal for equality and social progress, is very much a segregated country, and this is my opinion the very reason why we are seeing so much attacks happening on France's soil. Of course, France's involvement in Africa and in the middle east is also a factor, but that's not what I want to talk about today. For a bit of context, I want to talk about the two major immigration waves in France modern history: -The first, from 1945 to 1970, mostly came from other european countries (Polish, Portuguese, Italians ...). This was during a period of huge prosperity and social progress, and the wealth created was more even shared across all of society. Integration was not easy, despite the fact that most immigrants were caucasian and catholics. It was however very much possible and overall, the outcome was positive. -The second wave, from 1970 onwards, came mostly from North Africa and happened during an economic downturn (1973 oil shock) and after a very chaotic end to France's colonial past (End of the Algerian war in 1962). With the latent racism and the poor economic conditions, a segregation settled in France. And the worst part about it is that no one is willing to acknowledge or even talk about it. If you look at France today, the poorest neighbourhood can be entirely comprised of immigrants, with huge unemployment rate, poor access to education, harsh and various discriminations and so on. These are real ghettos, and those ghettos are fertile ground for violence, trafficking, and terrorism. Now I will use a Game of Thrones analogy to explain my point (spoiler alert) This economic and social disparity in France is like the underground of the Sept of Baelor filled with wildfire barrels. Radical islam ideology is the spark setting the whole thing ablaze. Don't kid yourself, most of the terrorism in France is homegrown. Now, if you were to try to prevent the Sept of Baelor to blow up, what would you do ? Would you just keep on eye on the wildfire and make sure no spark would ever come close to it? Or would you try to remove the wildfire in the first place ? My opinion is that we need to focus on fixing our social inequalities and discriminations plaguing or society. This is the only way to make the wildfire disappears. People will less likely blow themselves up if they have wealth, feel accepted, have a job, a family and a place in society. That is the real long term solution to terrorism, and pretty much everything else, including climate change and the debt crisis. Right now, inequalities are so high that it ressembles the pre-WW1 period. Things can only go worse if it continues like this.
This post is of high quality and the type of thoughtful response those of us not directly affected should strive for.
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On July 15 2016 17:15 ahswtini wrote:
i presume by 'urgency stat' u mean the state of emergency
Yes sorry.
On topic : ISIS media did not revendicate the attack in their last bulletin.
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On July 15 2016 20:51 aXa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 09:02 Chewbacca. wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but is there some political reason as to why it seems like so many of these attacks occur in France and not other European nations? Has France done more to "wrong" these people than other nations? Are they accepting many more immigrants? Not a lof of people are talking about this in this way, but here is my analysis. France, despite its ideal for equality and social progress, is very much a segregated country, and this is my opinion the very reason why we are seeing so much attacks happening on France's soil. Of course, France's involvement in Africa and in the middle east is also a factor, but that's not what I want to talk about today. For a bit of context, I want to talk about the two major immigration waves in France modern history: -The first, from 1945 to 1970, mostly came from other european countries (Polish, Portuguese, Italians ...). This was during a period of huge prosperity and social progress, and the wealth created was more even shared across all of society. Integration was not easy, despite the fact that most immigrants were caucasian and catholics. It was however very much possible and overall, the outcome was positive. -The second wave, from 1970 onwards, came mostly from North Africa and happened during an economic downturn (1973 oil shock) and after a very chaotic end to France's colonial past (End of the Algerian war in 1962). With the latent racism and the poor economic conditions, a segregation settled in France. And the worst part about it is that no one is willing to acknowledge or even talk about it. If you look at France today, the poorest neighbourhood can be entirely comprised of immigrants, with huge unemployment rate, poor access to education, harsh and various discriminations and so on. These are real ghettos, and those ghettos are fertile ground for violence, trafficking, and terrorism. Now I will use a Game of Thrones analogy to explain my point (spoiler alert) This economic and social disparity in France is like the underground of the Sept of Baelor filled with wildfire barrels. Radical islam ideology is the spark setting the whole thing ablaze. Don't kid yourself, most of the terrorism in France is homegrown. Now, if you were to try to prevent the Sept of Baelor to blow up, what would you do ? Would you just keep on eye on the wildfire and make sure no spark would ever come close to it? Or would you try to remove the wildfire in the first place ? My opinion is that we need to focus on fixing our social inequalities and discriminations plaguing or society. This is the only way to make the wildfire disappears. People will less likely blow themselves up if they have wealth, feel accepted, have a job, a family and a place in society. That is the real long term solution to terrorism, and pretty much everything else, including climate change and the debt crisis. Right now, inequalities are so high that it ressembles the pre-WW1 period. Things can only go worse if it continues like this.
The problem is that your vision does not stand to actual facts. You talk about segregation and poverty, inequalities, but by all measures those are less important in France than in most countries. What you call segregated areas are not segregated in the american way for exemple : the segregation is half what exist in the US by any measurement specialist have (I can link you studies for this if you want) and public infrastructures/public investment are nothing alike. I'm not saying all that does not play a role, but it does not explain much.
There are cultural problems that one must tackle to understand the terror attack - and by cultural I do not mean the culture of islam or whatever, but France's own culture and history.
May I add one OBVIOUS thing, that people seems to misunderstand constantly : poverty and inequality does not force people into driving a truck and blindly killing innocent people. "Poor people", throughout history, have values, have honor, have a sense of solidarity. Class warfare can be brutal, from time to time, and, from my point of view, for legitimate reasons, but at which point can we explain killing 83 completly innocent citizens by inequalities I wonder. The cause is much more profound than inequality, it has a lot to do with morals and values.
There is a leap from small delinquency to killing innocents with a truck.
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I think it is clear that when people talk about inequality and class after these sort of attacks, they are addressing the larger issues surrounding desperate acts of violence. Obviously, the causes that lead up to this specific event will become clear in the future.
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On July 15 2016 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 20:51 aXa wrote:On July 15 2016 09:02 Chewbacca. wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but is there some political reason as to why it seems like so many of these attacks occur in France and not other European nations? Has France done more to "wrong" these people than other nations? Are they accepting many more immigrants? Not a lof of people are talking about this in this way, but here is my analysis. France, despite its ideal for equality and social progress, is very much a segregated country, and this is my opinion the very reason why we are seeing so much attacks happening on France's soil. Of course, France's involvement in Africa and in the middle east is also a factor, but that's not what I want to talk about today. For a bit of context, I want to talk about the two major immigration waves in France modern history: -The first, from 1945 to 1970, mostly came from other european countries (Polish, Portuguese, Italians ...). This was during a period of huge prosperity and social progress, and the wealth created was more even shared across all of society. Integration was not easy, despite the fact that most immigrants were caucasian and catholics. It was however very much possible and overall, the outcome was positive. -The second wave, from 1970 onwards, came mostly from North Africa and happened during an economic downturn (1973 oil shock) and after a very chaotic end to France's colonial past (End of the Algerian war in 1962). With the latent racism and the poor economic conditions, a segregation settled in France. And the worst part about it is that no one is willing to acknowledge or even talk about it. If you look at France today, the poorest neighbourhood can be entirely comprised of immigrants, with huge unemployment rate, poor access to education, harsh and various discriminations and so on. These are real ghettos, and those ghettos are fertile ground for violence, trafficking, and terrorism. Now I will use a Game of Thrones analogy to explain my point (spoiler alert) This economic and social disparity in France is like the underground of the Sept of Baelor filled with wildfire barrels. Radical islam ideology is the spark setting the whole thing ablaze. Don't kid yourself, most of the terrorism in France is homegrown. Now, if you were to try to prevent the Sept of Baelor to blow up, what would you do ? Would you just keep on eye on the wildfire and make sure no spark would ever come close to it? Or would you try to remove the wildfire in the first place ? My opinion is that we need to focus on fixing our social inequalities and discriminations plaguing or society. This is the only way to make the wildfire disappears. People will less likely blow themselves up if they have wealth, feel accepted, have a job, a family and a place in society. That is the real long term solution to terrorism, and pretty much everything else, including climate change and the debt crisis. Right now, inequalities are so high that it ressembles the pre-WW1 period. Things can only go worse if it continues like this. The problem is that your vision does not stand to actual fact. You talk about segregation and poverty, inequalities, but by all measures those are less important in France than in most countries. What you call segregated areas are not segregated in the american way for exemple, because public infrastructures and public investment are nothing alike. There are cultural problems that one must tackle to understand the terror attack - and by cultural I do not mean the culture of islam or whatever, but France's own culture and history. May I add one OBVIOUS thing, that people seems to misunderstand constantly : poverty and inequality does not force people into driving a truck and blindly killing innocent people. In no countries, at no point of history, have we seen anything similar : class warfare can be brutal, from time to time, but at which point can we explain killing 83 completly innocent citizens by inequalities I wonder. The cause is much more profound than inequality, it has a lot to do with morals and value.
Inequality and poverty does not force people into anything, but it creates weaknesses in their life. These weaknesses can lead to different terrible things. A black young man in the US might start using drugs or join a gang. A muslim living in France's poorest banlieue might one day be influenced by dangerous people and become a terrorist. My point is that if you want to starve off terrorist or criminal organisations from recruiting young disenfranchised people, you should focus on creating opportunity for them. In the case of France, we have the largest muslim community in Europe, and integration is not happening, which makes the probability of someone actually being influenced by radical ideologies much higher.
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On July 15 2016 22:11 aXa wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:On July 15 2016 20:51 aXa wrote:On July 15 2016 09:02 Chewbacca. wrote:
Pardon my ignorance, but is there some political reason as to why it seems like so many of these attacks occur in France and not other European nations? Has France done more to "wrong" these people than other nations? Are they accepting many more immigrants? Not a lof of people are talking about this in this way, but here is my analysis. France, despite its ideal for equality and social progress, is very much a segregated country, and this is my opinion the very reason why we are seeing so much attacks happening on France's soil. Of course, France's involvement in Africa and in the middle east is also a factor, but that's not what I want to talk about today. For a bit of context, I want to talk about the two major immigration waves in France modern history: -The first, from 1945 to 1970, mostly came from other european countries (Polish, Portuguese, Italians ...). This was during a period of huge prosperity and social progress, and the wealth created was more even shared across all of society. Integration was not easy, despite the fact that most immigrants were caucasian and catholics. It was however very much possible and overall, the outcome was positive. -The second wave, from 1970 onwards, came mostly from North Africa and happened during an economic downturn (1973 oil shock) and after a very chaotic end to France's colonial past (End of the Algerian war in 1962). With the latent racism and the poor economic conditions, a segregation settled in France. And the worst part about it is that no one is willing to acknowledge or even talk about it. If you look at France today, the poorest neighbourhood can be entirely comprised of immigrants, with huge unemployment rate, poor access to education, harsh and various discriminations and so on. These are real ghettos, and those ghettos are fertile ground for violence, trafficking, and terrorism. Now I will use a Game of Thrones analogy to explain my point (spoiler alert) This economic and social disparity in France is like the underground of the Sept of Baelor filled with wildfire barrels. Radical islam ideology is the spark setting the whole thing ablaze. Don't kid yourself, most of the terrorism in France is homegrown. Now, if you were to try to prevent the Sept of Baelor to blow up, what would you do ? Would you just keep on eye on the wildfire and make sure no spark would ever come close to it? Or would you try to remove the wildfire in the first place ? My opinion is that we need to focus on fixing our social inequalities and discriminations plaguing or society. This is the only way to make the wildfire disappears. People will less likely blow themselves up if they have wealth, feel accepted, have a job, a family and a place in society. That is the real long term solution to terrorism, and pretty much everything else, including climate change and the debt crisis. Right now, inequalities are so high that it ressembles the pre-WW1 period. Things can only go worse if it continues like this. The problem is that your vision does not stand to actual fact. You talk about segregation and poverty, inequalities, but by all measures those are less important in France than in most countries. What you call segregated areas are not segregated in the american way for exemple, because public infrastructures and public investment are nothing alike. There are cultural problems that one must tackle to understand the terror attack - and by cultural I do not mean the culture of islam or whatever, but France's own culture and history. May I add one OBVIOUS thing, that people seems to misunderstand constantly : poverty and inequality does not force people into driving a truck and blindly killing innocent people. In no countries, at no point of history, have we seen anything similar : class warfare can be brutal, from time to time, but at which point can we explain killing 83 completly innocent citizens by inequalities I wonder. The cause is much more profound than inequality, it has a lot to do with morals and value. Inequality and poverty does not force people into anything, but it creates weaknesses in their life. These weaknesses can lead to different terrible things. A black young man in the US might start using drugs or join a gang. A muslim living in France's poorest banlieue might one day be influenced by dangerous people and become a terrorist. My point is that if you want to starve off terrorist or criminal organisations from recruiting young disenfranchised people, you should focus on creating opportunity for them. In the case of France, we have the largest muslim community in Europe, and integration is not happening, which makes the probability of someone actually being influenced by radical ideologies much higher.
That's untrue, historically, socially. What create weakness is the absence of social link, of social cohesion. Poor people have been defined by their solidarity throughout history - "us" and "them" as written by Hoggart more than fifty years ago.
More than that, those terrorist attacks are made by very diverses people, with very diverses background. Some comes from the small delinquency and can be described as poor people, for some it's just not the case : they are perfectly integrated economically and socially, sometimes with high degree and education.
Your discourse is the kind of discourse I actually believed was right a few years ago. At this point, it's pretty clear the problem is more profound and can't be fixed with an increase in wages and a change in urbanism.
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EPT
