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Once again, as this is a sensitive topic and one that can cause a lot of unnecessary things to be said in the heat of the moment, be VERY careful about what you post. Think twice before actually stating something and please be considerate of anyone who may feel involved or affected. |
On July 15 2016 09:35 SK.Testie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 09:34 SoSexy wrote:
Police should infiltrate agents in salafi mosquees - whoever praises the attack should have a nice 'conversation' out of sight... They do do this and they try to work with and rely on people reporting in the Muslim community. It's not easy. There's at least two or three documentaries of hidden cameras inside UK mosques where they try to get close. I can't recall how much time they were undercover for. I think there's a documentary of a girl called "Aisha" who went undercover for at least a few months to a year. In each time they usually find the usual hate speech. "The Westerners are Kafirs etc." Which has to be a kick in the balls, because a larger % of them are on welfare. So you're paying for people to hate your guts. (Timeframe citation needed though)
Yeah. Too bad they then let them free (as they did with the Belgian scumbags=
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On July 15 2016 09:56 radscorpion9 wrote:
Is anyone else getting a little bit desensitized at this point? This is just another massacre in a long series of massacres. It is depressing but I find it hard to be shocked at this point
I'm not shocked that there was another terrorist attack, these things are obviously the norm now sadly, but i'm still shocked at the death/loss of life, that is something i don't see myself ever becoming desensitized with.
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On July 15 2016 10:01 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 09:56 radscorpion9 wrote:
Is anyone else getting a little bit desensitized at this point? This is just another massacre in a long series of massacres. It is depressing but I find it hard to be shocked at this point I'm not sure if I'm desensitized, or just have a lot of perspective. Could be either really.
Well there is certainly a good point to be made (at least I think so), that if we genuinely cared for every person that died, we would be in a permanent state of coma induced by depression. I can't help but be skeptical when someone says they "really care" that some group of people died unrelated to them. If they were that concerned, they would have also cared when 200 people died in Baghdad not too long ago. But of course, no one cared. Its selective outrage. But I guess having selective, contradictory beliefs is not something new or unexpected.
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On July 15 2016 10:11 radscorpion9 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 10:01 zlefin wrote:On July 15 2016 09:56 radscorpion9 wrote:
Is anyone else getting a little bit desensitized at this point? This is just another massacre in a long series of massacres. It is depressing but I find it hard to be shocked at this point I'm not sure if I'm desensitized, or just have a lot of perspective. Could be either really. Well there is certainly a good point to be made (at least I think so), that if we genuinely cared for every person that died, we would be in a permanent state of coma induced by depression. I can't help but be skeptical when someone says they "really care" that some group of people died unrelated to them. If they were that concerned, they would have also cared when 200 people died in Baghdad not too long ago. But of course, no one cared. Its selective outrage. But I guess having selective, contradictory beliefs is not something new or unexpected.
indeed. Nor did the 200-ish people murdered in brazil today make the news. Because it's just normal.
But I would'nt want such selectiveness to cloud the choosing of best practices and of where to focus efforts for the best benefit.
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On July 15 2016 10:11 radscorpion9 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 10:01 zlefin wrote:On July 15 2016 09:56 radscorpion9 wrote:
Is anyone else getting a little bit desensitized at this point? This is just another massacre in a long series of massacres. It is depressing but I find it hard to be shocked at this point I'm not sure if I'm desensitized, or just have a lot of perspective. Could be either really. Well there is certainly a good point to be made (at least I think so), that if we genuinely cared for every person that died, we would be in a permanent state of coma induced by depression. I can't help but be skeptical when someone says they "really care" that some group of people died unrelated to them. If they were that concerned, they would have also cared when 200 people died in Baghdad not too long ago. But of course, no one cared. Its selective outrage. But I guess having selective, contradictory beliefs is not something new or unexpected.
But most users here can relate more to a celebrating group of French, watching a firework on their national holiday in Nice than to the populace of Baghdad.
And yes, that is certainly a different concern than when a close family member dies. It is also below the concern I may have have, if some friends relative or someone from my town or in a place I know suffers such fate. But it is still above Baghdad.
Same as I cheer for Costa Rica in a soccer match between them and Nicaragua. Simply because I was there for 3 weeks vacation and liked the country and its people. Which does not mean I would like Nicaragua less or the people there are worse human beings. I just simply know the country/people less and thus care less.
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On July 15 2016 09:56 radscorpion9 wrote:
Is anyone else getting a little bit desensitized at this point? This is just another massacre in a long series of massacres. It is depressing but I find it hard to be shocked at this point
If you live 7000km away maybe
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On July 15 2016 10:17 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 10:11 radscorpion9 wrote:On July 15 2016 10:01 zlefin wrote:On July 15 2016 09:56 radscorpion9 wrote:
Is anyone else getting a little bit desensitized at this point? This is just another massacre in a long series of massacres. It is depressing but I find it hard to be shocked at this point I'm not sure if I'm desensitized, or just have a lot of perspective. Could be either really. Well there is certainly a good point to be made (at least I think so), that if we genuinely cared for every person that died, we would be in a permanent state of coma induced by depression. I can't help but be skeptical when someone says they "really care" that some group of people died unrelated to them. If they were that concerned, they would have also cared when 200 people died in Baghdad not too long ago. But of course, no one cared. Its selective outrage. But I guess having selective, contradictory beliefs is not something new or unexpected. But most users here can relate more to a celebrating group of French, watching a firework on their national holiday in Nice than to the populace of Baghdad. And yes, that is certainly a different concern than when a close family member dies. It is also below the concern I may have have, if some friends relative or someone from my town or in a place I know suffers such fate. But it is still above Baghdad. Same as I cheer for Costa Rica in a soccer match between them and Nicaragua. Simply because I was there for 3 weeks vacation and liked the country and its people. Which does not mean I would like Nicaragua less or the people there are worse human beings. I just simply know the country/people less and thus care less.
Intelligent post but just give up, dude - everytime something like this happens, people don't seem to understand that things closer to us affect us more. I gave up on explaining after a guy made a comparison between the death of a parent and someone dying in China.
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On July 15 2016 10:21 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 10:17 mahrgell wrote:On July 15 2016 10:11 radscorpion9 wrote:On July 15 2016 10:01 zlefin wrote:On July 15 2016 09:56 radscorpion9 wrote:
Is anyone else getting a little bit desensitized at this point? This is just another massacre in a long series of massacres. It is depressing but I find it hard to be shocked at this point I'm not sure if I'm desensitized, or just have a lot of perspective. Could be either really. Well there is certainly a good point to be made (at least I think so), that if we genuinely cared for every person that died, we would be in a permanent state of coma induced by depression. I can't help but be skeptical when someone says they "really care" that some group of people died unrelated to them. If they were that concerned, they would have also cared when 200 people died in Baghdad not too long ago. But of course, no one cared. Its selective outrage. But I guess having selective, contradictory beliefs is not something new or unexpected. But most users here can relate more to a celebrating group of French, watching a firework on their national holiday in Nice than to the populace of Baghdad. And yes, that is certainly a different concern than when a close family member dies. It is also below the concern I may have have, if some friends relative or someone from my town or in a place I know suffers such fate. But it is still above Baghdad. Same as I cheer for Costa Rica in a soccer match between them and Nicaragua. Simply because I was there for 3 weeks vacation and liked the country and its people. Which does not mean I would like Nicaragua less or the people there are worse human beings. I just simply know the country/people less and thus care less. Intelligent post but just give up, dude - everytime something like this happens, people don't seem to understand that things closer to us affect us more. I gave up on explaining after a guy made a comparison between the death of a parent and someone dying in China.
Just because things closer to us affect us more, does that mean that death of innocent humans isn't equally bad depending on where the human is? That, by definition, only shows a lack of empathy. (which may or may not be important, or bad, or whatever -- but its definitely a lack of empathy and being able to feel someone else's pain)
Of course that is a completely separate point from 'caring' about things not as close or known to you. But one could argue that it shows a lack of perspective and 'tribal' thinking, in a very global world.
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On July 15 2016 10:26 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 10:21 SoSexy wrote:On July 15 2016 10:17 mahrgell wrote:On July 15 2016 10:11 radscorpion9 wrote:On July 15 2016 10:01 zlefin wrote:On July 15 2016 09:56 radscorpion9 wrote:
Is anyone else getting a little bit desensitized at this point? This is just another massacre in a long series of massacres. It is depressing but I find it hard to be shocked at this point I'm not sure if I'm desensitized, or just have a lot of perspective. Could be either really. Well there is certainly a good point to be made (at least I think so), that if we genuinely cared for every person that died, we would be in a permanent state of coma induced by depression. I can't help but be skeptical when someone says they "really care" that some group of people died unrelated to them. If they were that concerned, they would have also cared when 200 people died in Baghdad not too long ago. But of course, no one cared. Its selective outrage. But I guess having selective, contradictory beliefs is not something new or unexpected. But most users here can relate more to a celebrating group of French, watching a firework on their national holiday in Nice than to the populace of Baghdad. And yes, that is certainly a different concern than when a close family member dies. It is also below the concern I may have have, if some friends relative or someone from my town or in a place I know suffers such fate. But it is still above Baghdad. Same as I cheer for Costa Rica in a soccer match between them and Nicaragua. Simply because I was there for 3 weeks vacation and liked the country and its people. Which does not mean I would like Nicaragua less or the people there are worse human beings. I just simply know the country/people less and thus care less. Intelligent post but just give up, dude - everytime something like this happens, people don't seem to understand that things closer to us affect us more. I gave up on explaining after a guy made a comparison between the death of a parent and someone dying in China. Just because things closer to us affect us more, does that mean that death of innocent humans isn't equally bad depending on where the human is? That, by definition, only shows a lack of empathy. (which may or may not be important, or bad, or whatever -- but its definitely a lack of empathy and being able to feel someone else's pain)
No - it just means that you cry when your mother dies, but not when a chinese worker in Beijing does. You call this a lack of empathy?
Where did I say that death isn't equally bad?!
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On July 15 2016 10:30 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 10:26 nath wrote:On July 15 2016 10:21 SoSexy wrote:On July 15 2016 10:17 mahrgell wrote:On July 15 2016 10:11 radscorpion9 wrote:On July 15 2016 10:01 zlefin wrote:On July 15 2016 09:56 radscorpion9 wrote:
Is anyone else getting a little bit desensitized at this point? This is just another massacre in a long series of massacres. It is depressing but I find it hard to be shocked at this point I'm not sure if I'm desensitized, or just have a lot of perspective. Could be either really. Well there is certainly a good point to be made (at least I think so), that if we genuinely cared for every person that died, we would be in a permanent state of coma induced by depression. I can't help but be skeptical when someone says they "really care" that some group of people died unrelated to them. If they were that concerned, they would have also cared when 200 people died in Baghdad not too long ago. But of course, no one cared. Its selective outrage. But I guess having selective, contradictory beliefs is not something new or unexpected. But most users here can relate more to a celebrating group of French, watching a firework on their national holiday in Nice than to the populace of Baghdad. And yes, that is certainly a different concern than when a close family member dies. It is also below the concern I may have have, if some friends relative or someone from my town or in a place I know suffers such fate. But it is still above Baghdad. Same as I cheer for Costa Rica in a soccer match between them and Nicaragua. Simply because I was there for 3 weeks vacation and liked the country and its people. Which does not mean I would like Nicaragua less or the people there are worse human beings. I just simply know the country/people less and thus care less. Intelligent post but just give up, dude - everytime something like this happens, people don't seem to understand that things closer to us affect us more. I gave up on explaining after a guy made a comparison between the death of a parent and someone dying in China. Just because things closer to us affect us more, does that mean that death of innocent humans isn't equally bad depending on where the human is? That, by definition, only shows a lack of empathy. (which may or may not be important, or bad, or whatever -- but its definitely a lack of empathy and being able to feel someone else's pain) No - it just means that you cry when your mother dies, but not when a chinese worker in Beijing does. Where did I say that death isn't equally bad?!
Of course. Those are two completely separate points. They should not be conflated. Many of the people who are 'not understanding that things close to us affect us more' are usually not talking about that, but making a version of the (again, completely separate) point I made above. Conflating them just leads to more misunderstanding.
Both can be true.
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On July 15 2016 10:31 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2016 10:30 SoSexy wrote:On July 15 2016 10:26 nath wrote:On July 15 2016 10:21 SoSexy wrote:On July 15 2016 10:17 mahrgell wrote:On July 15 2016 10:11 radscorpion9 wrote:On July 15 2016 10:01 zlefin wrote:On July 15 2016 09:56 radscorpion9 wrote:
Is anyone else getting a little bit desensitized at this point? This is just another massacre in a long series of massacres. It is depressing but I find it hard to be shocked at this point I'm not sure if I'm desensitized, or just have a lot of perspective. Could be either really. Well there is certainly a good point to be made (at least I think so), that if we genuinely cared for every person that died, we would be in a permanent state of coma induced by depression. I can't help but be skeptical when someone says they "really care" that some group of people died unrelated to them. If they were that concerned, they would have also cared when 200 people died in Baghdad not too long ago. But of course, no one cared. Its selective outrage. But I guess having selective, contradictory beliefs is not something new or unexpected. But most users here can relate more to a celebrating group of French, watching a firework on their national holiday in Nice than to the populace of Baghdad. And yes, that is certainly a different concern than when a close family member dies. It is also below the concern I may have have, if some friends relative or someone from my town or in a place I know suffers such fate. But it is still above Baghdad. Same as I cheer for Costa Rica in a soccer match between them and Nicaragua. Simply because I was there for 3 weeks vacation and liked the country and its people. Which does not mean I would like Nicaragua less or the people there are worse human beings. I just simply know the country/people less and thus care less. Intelligent post but just give up, dude - everytime something like this happens, people don't seem to understand that things closer to us affect us more. I gave up on explaining after a guy made a comparison between the death of a parent and someone dying in China. Just because things closer to us affect us more, does that mean that death of innocent humans isn't equally bad depending on where the human is? That, by definition, only shows a lack of empathy. (which may or may not be important, or bad, or whatever -- but its definitely a lack of empathy and being able to feel someone else's pain) No - it just means that you cry when your mother dies, but not when a chinese worker in Beijing does. Where did I say that death isn't equally bad?! Of course. Those are two completely separate points. They should not be conflated. Many of the people who are 'not understanding that things close to us affect us more' are usually not talking about that, but making a version of the (again, completely separate point) I made above. Conflating them just leads to more misunderstanding.
We ended up agreeing, on the TL forum, I can't believe it. On a more serious note:
Dead count up to 80 now.
Hollande scheduled to speak soon.
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As much as rationally I can see that the death of 70 people in Baghdad is every bit as bad and horrible as 70 in France, I can't help to feel differently. I could easily about it and be PC but I do actually feel differently. Perhaps it's because they're more similar to me, they speak the same language as I do in my day to day life, and they live a similar lifestyle. They've probably never heard a gunshot and they feel safe, and then they die. And I know and work French people who have family there. But there's also plain old selfishness. France is right across the pond from me, France is like home. I know some people get scared, for me it's not fear for the lives of my family and myself, but I don't know. There's something uncomfortable about that sort of violence in the areas of the world that many of us think of as safe.
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The sad part would be someone criticizing you for feeling this way as a justification for that person feeling nothing. As if being consistent in your heartlessness is a virtue. I prefer being biased than pathetic.
Not pointing anybody just remembering I've met such in the past.
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The thing to take away on comparing deaths is that we need more empathy. Most of the most horrific things we do as humans stem from our ability to dehumanize people by capitalizing on our inability to empathize with people who we can't parallel to someone we value in our lives.
Step 1 is realizing we do this.
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On July 15 2016 10:56 Djzapz wrote:
As much as rationally I can see that the death of 70 people in Baghdad is every bit as bad and horrible as 70 in France, I can't help to feel differently. I could easily about it and be PC but I do actually feel differently. Perhaps it's because they're more similar to me, they speak the same language as I do in my day to day life, and they live a similar lifestyle. They've probably never heard a gunshot and they feel safe, and then they die. And I know and work French people who have family there. But there's also plain old selfishness. France is right across the pond from me, France is like home. I know some people get scared, for me it's not fear for the lives of my family and myself, but I don't know. There's something uncomfortable about that sort of violence in the areas of the world that many of us think of as safe.
it's fine to feel that way.
The main thing is to not let that feeling get in the away of determining the best courses of action to fix the problems (or to let those feeling make you focus too much on things which are less of an actual threat)
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You guys are having the most pathetic conversation I've seen. Just respect what happened and move on with your fake empathy.
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Always heart-breaking when unnecessary suffering occurs.
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On July 15 2016 12:12 NukeD wrote:
You guys are having the most pathetic conversation I've seen. Just respect what happened and move on with your fake empathy.
Someone need a cookie or something.
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EPT
