EPTWe'll see if we can get the numbers down so we have some headroom for Christmas. A lot of people are going to break restrictions to see family, so we need to get it down so that it can happen in a safer fashion.
Canadian Politics Mega-thread - Page 84
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
We'll see if we can get the numbers down so we have some headroom for Christmas. A lot of people are going to break restrictions to see family, so we need to get it down so that it can happen in a safer fashion. | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
On November 21 2020 07:15 Lmui wrote: BC is reacting really late to the recent surge in cases. We're a couple steps away from a full lockdown. All high risk activities are suspended (spin classes, group fitness etc), mandatory masks in all public places including apartment common areas and restrictions on visitors to your own household. We'll see if we can get the numbers down so we have some headroom for Christmas. A lot of people are going to break restrictions to see family, so we need to get it down so that it can happen in a safer fashion. Only yesterday did the mask mandate get put in place and it doesn't even apply to schools iirc. Our (former) rockstar provincial health officer wasn't doing enough imo. I'm seeing a significant number of people wearing a mask outside now as well after yesterdays announcement. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17671 Posts
I'm pretty negative/pessimistic about our national and provincial leaders. Scheer and Trudeau are intellectual lightweights compared to previous Canadian PMs. Bill Davis, Bob Rae, and Mike Harris are geniuses compared to Mcguinty and Wynne. Its just sad. On a day as bad as this.. i'd like to inject some positive vibes... There is one bright spot. John Torey is a great leader and a brilliant mayor. He is easily the best Toronto mayor of my lifetime and I'd have to say the best Mayor Toronto has had in 70 years. The guy is amazing. For those keeping score..... Toronto is currently the fastest growing metropolitan area in North America. Congratz to Torey and the hard working people of the greatest city on earth. https://www.blogto.com/city/2020/06/toronto-fastest-growing-city-north-america/ | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17671 Posts
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-uk-transitional-trade-agreement-1.5811269 so if corporate owned goods and corporate sponsored services can freely move across borders like UK/Canada, and Canada/USA ... why shouldn't the workers do the same thing ? | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17671 Posts
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canada-will-get-covid-19-vaccines-after-other-countries-due-to-lack-of/ Canada is at a “disadvantage” because unlike countries such as Germany, Britain and the United States, Canada can’t manufacture vaccines at home, Mr. Trudeau said at a news conference in Ottawa. His concession comes as pressure on the federal government mounts to explain when and how Canada will be able to roll out vaccines for Canadians and after the federal government in August said Canada would be able to make 250,000 doses of vaccines by November. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
We're second in line. We paid for them, but we don't have priority access because we don't make them. Rollouts in January after UK/US/Germany have immunized first responders is all we can hope for | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17671 Posts
https://commonlaw.uottawa.ca/en/people/attaran-amir https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/us-uk-vaccinations-start-december-canada-silent-1.5814176 | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
Today, there was this article and headline: Conservative MP Derek Sloan’s anti-vaccine petition a symptom of Liberal failings: Erin O’Toole https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/tories-otoole-says-he-disagrees-with-anti-vaccine-petition-trusts-the-science Which closely matches this headline: Conservative Party slams Trudeau for not doing enough to combat anti-vaxxers in Conservative Party. Problem: The second is from the Beaverton: https://www.thebeaverton.com/2020/12/conservative-party-slams-trudeau-for-not-doing-enough-to-combat-anti-vaxxers-in-conservative-party/ Way to go, the anti-science wing of the conservative party is now the fault of the liberals | ||
Falling
Canada11567 Posts
3- Require that vaccine safety studies comply with standards equal to or exceeding other pharmaceutical products; For instance, this doesn't sound like an anti-vaxxer concern (who would not be satisfied with any amount of standards. They think the whole thing is bunk- and depending on your version anti-vaxxer, part of some nefarious plot.) This sounds like the petitioners wish to be assured (with oversight) that the testing comply with current standards. This should not be an undue burden. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
For both Moderna/Pfizer, they had a vaccine candidate within days after covid was sequenced. It's been 9 months of continuous testing since. Yeah it's being rolled out quickly, but so far, the consequences of catching covid are far worse than the minor side-effects of the vaccine seen to date. There's been ~30k in the Moderna phase 3 trial, and ~40k in Pfizer's. In Moderna's trial, grade 3 (severe) events greater than or equal to 2% in frequency after the first dose included injection site pain (2.7%), and after the second dose included fatigue (9.7%), myalgia (8.9%), arthralgia (5.2%), headache (4.5%), pain (4.1%) and erythema/redness at the injection site (2.0%). These solicited adverse events were generally short-lived. Vs the known side effects of covid. Almost 13k have died in Canada, 1 in 3000. At least 1 in 90 have had covid s far. I'll take my chances with mild, short lived side-effects over potential months-permanent side effects from covid. Health Canada also weighs in on the same information, and it's pretty clear that the pandemic has worse consequences than a fairly widely tested vaccine. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On December 08 2020 10:56 Falling wrote: I haven't read to much into this, but I think you are misconstruing to say these guys are anti-vaxxers or anti-science. I mean, I'm sure anti-vaxxers are all over this, but one of the many reasons why I find anti-vaxxers frustrating is that they ruin anyone else's call for caution. IE if you are not for full steam ahead, you are an anti-vaxxer, and it's like there are reasons to be cautious- until now the fastest turn around on a vaccine was four years. We're trying to do it in one. One doesn't have to be an anti-vaxxer to be hesitant on that front- were those extra three years (or more in most cases) all just government red tape, moving paper from one side of the desk to the other? Wondering if it's being rushed because everything hangs on getting a vaccine out ASAP is not unreasonable. For instance, this doesn't sound like an anti-vaxxer concern (who would not be satisfied with any amount of standards. They think the whole thing is bunk- and depending on your version anti-vaxxer, part of some nefarious plot.) This sounds like the petitioners wish to be assured (with oversight) that the testing comply with current standards. This should not be an undue burden. That petition was literally tabled by the director of the biggest anti-vaxxer group in canada. Initiated by Gisele Baribeau from Dorchester, Ontario The director of VaccineChoiceCanada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_Choice_Canada VCC spreads the discredited hypothesis that vaccination causes autism and denies that the introduction of vaccines led to a decline of the targeted diseases. They blame vaccination for a variety of ailments, including autism spectrum disorders, learning disabilities, ADHD, allergies, and asthma. The group argues a vaccine against COVID-19 is unnecessary. Late in the pandemic, it still repeated the discredited myth that the pandemic is no more severe than the flu. It's as anti-vaxxer as it gets. I'm all for informed consent, but that's not what you're getting here. You cited a point from that petition and argued "well doesn't look unreasonable", but you seem to somehow have missed the directly adjacent point: 4- Create an independent committee with a broad range of stakeholder representatives, including citizen vaccine safety advocates; Sounds good? Wait. 5- Ensure no committee member has intellectual or financial conflicts of interest with the pharmaceutical or medical industry; There we go. Did you know that any vaccine researcher by design would have an intellectual conflict of interest, hence being excluded? They're advocating for a panel of soccer moms, reviewing all applications for vaccines. It doesn't get dumber than this. And in fact, also not more obvious. Not sure why you'd argue that the leading figure in the canadian anti-vax-movement somehow isn't..... that anti-vax? | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17671 Posts
On December 08 2020 10:56 Falling wrote: I haven't read to much into this, but I think you are misconstruing to say these guys are anti-vaxxers or anti-science. I mean, I'm sure anti-vaxxers are all over this, but one of the many reasons why I find anti-vaxxers frustrating is that they ruin anyone else's call for caution. This is the price we all must pay for freedom of speech. It is a price i'm always willing to pay. | ||
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Falling
Canada11567 Posts
I stand corrected as far as my defence of the bill in question. I've been reading far too many articles that throw reasonable resistance to the increasingly restrictive lockdown to 'are they just weirdos?' that I have gut reaction to resist calling people anti-science, anti-vax. I just don't trust many assertions of other people's positions anymore. But yes as it is the leader of the anti-vax movement creating it, then it is anti-vax, particularly with #5. This is the price we all must pay for freedom of speech. It is a price i'm always willing to pay. Must suggests a requirement. I don't think it is a required price as strawmanning and guilty by association (which is what I thought was going on initially) are not requirements of free speech. It's always a risk and more likely when people become polarized on what we ought to do. But I don't think it's a 'must'. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17671 Posts
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/big-spend-long-term-care-aid-dividends-1.5832941 I agree with the right-wingers. Let's end welfare. Let's start by ending welfare for the elite and rich because they can afford it the most.. and then slowly "trickle down" this policy to people making less than 100s of millions a year over the course of the next 50 years. Once average Canadians see the rich and elite behaving for more self responsibly because the government can never bail them out their behaviour will tend to follow the example being set. what a great plan eh? Speaking of welfare for the rich... https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-rogers-centre-faces-demolition-as-blue-jays-owner-plans-new-stadium/ i tell ya man, the province or feds give even 1 dime or any breaks so that Rogers Comm. can build a new playpen for the fucking Toronto Blue Jays... I'll become a Tampa Bay Rays fan again. On December 09 2020 09:22 Falling wrote: Must suggests a requirement. I don't think it is a required price as strawmanning and guilty by association (which is what I thought was going on initially) are not requirements of free speech. It's always a risk and more likely when people become polarized on what we ought to do. But I don't think it's a 'must'. I view it as a requirement because there will always be loud people with extreme views. To me.. its no big deal. It is all part of the process. "strawmanning and guilty by association" ... meh who cares. And, sometimes those loud people with extreme views have some truth to their ranting. I believe William Shakespeare once wrote : "there is truth in madness". | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17671 Posts
On December 10 2020 01:26 JimmiC wrote: Do you have any sources that the "left" wanted big money to go to big corporations and that the "right" didn't? I don't think you understood the joke I was making. right-wingers traditionally are for minimizing social programs and minimizing welfare payments. So a high profile right wing conservative guy like Mike Harris will promise a 22% decrease in welfare payments. That is something an NDP-er would never promise. Here is conservative, right wing guy Mike Harris cutting welfare by 22% https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-harris-years/article4155016/ I say we follow Mike Harris' lead and minimize welfare for the rich. Eventually, let's have zero welfare for the rich. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17671 Posts
On March 31 2021 06:39 Lmui wrote: I'm too young to really remember much of Chretien. Harper and Trudeau are the only prime ministers I've known in my lifetime. Honestly, if Trudeau was a little less corrupt, I'd be much happier voting for the liberals/NDP. They largely align with my views, but it's been yearly scandal after scandal, and the sleazy people in cabinet aren't much better. Regardless though, doesn't matter for covid at this point. . i'm too young to remember Chretien. However, I research and read lots of books and watch old interviews and old discussions. Chretien is a genius and grew up under harsh circumstances. Chretien is 1000X smarter than Justin. I am not so concerned about someone "aligning with my views" as i am about having a very smart and very hard working person running the country, the province and the city i live in. Mccallion, Harris, Rae , and Chretien were all brilliant leaders compared to Justin. As a result, Canada was fucking awesome. Rae and Harris are diametrically opposed ideologically. Both were pragmatic and brilliant. Ontarians benefitted greatly. Dude, the day I was born. I won the damn lottery. I just didn't know it. Its sad to see Canada fall from great to merely above average... when it comes to covid19 ... as a G7 nation... Canada has been bad. Steering this back to Covid19 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html Same levels as Brazil? Its sad to see man. I'm accustomed to meeting Brazilians in Toronto who arrived for a "better life" and "better economic opportunities". Welp, Brazilians won't have a better chance at being vaccinated.  As a concrete example of "aligning with my views" versus "really smart and savvy leader" let's look at Bush v. B. Clinton. Overall, Bush prolly aligns with my views more closely than Clinton. However, Clinton, in my view, is 10,000X smarter and better as a leader and can execute on a plan better. So in a hypothetical election between Bush and Clinton .. I'd vote Bill Clinton all the way. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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