EPTShots fired at Charlie Hebdo offices - France - Page 111
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Read this before posting. Stay civil. As the news continues to develop, please remember no NSFW images or video. Thank you. | ||
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goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8761 Posts
for press freedom, democracy, solidarity and to show that we are not afraid. //edit: there was an excellent op-ed on gawker of all places on the topic. http://gawker.com/terrorism-works-1678049997 | ||
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
Extremist are gonna be there and people are gonna hate anyway. Not a single bit is going to change. If some crazy muslim wants to kill people depicting muhammad they will do it again. People will still be fucking afraid to say anything bad regarding islam to the press and actually anyone in their right mind would be scared shitless if they were to ridicule muhammad right now. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8761 Posts
On January 11 2015 16:27 aTnClouD wrote: Ok, but I don't understand how going out in mass actually achieves any of that. democracy only works if people are engaged, politicians for example only get away too easily with shit if people don't care. what terrorists want is for you to be afraid and stay at home. by being on the streets you are showing - here's the line you fucking cunt. | ||
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
On January 11 2015 16:29 Doublemint wrote: democracy only works if people are engaged, politicians for example only get away too easily with shit if people don't care. what terrorists want is for you to be afraid and stay at home. by being on the streets you are showing - here's the line you fucking cunt. I doubt terrorists want me to stay at home. They have no reason to care. They just do what they think it's right to do, and in this case it was killing journalists. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8761 Posts
On January 11 2015 16:32 aTnClouD wrote: I doubt terrorists want me to stay at home. They have no reason to care. They just do what they think it's right to do, and in this case it was killing journalists. terror, the word itself, says otherwise. and they have every reason to care. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On January 11 2015 16:29 Doublemint wrote: There is no evidence in the history of histories, that people have ever understood the issues ahead of them. How many laws were passed in your country, in the span of your own life? Probably in the tens of thousands, how much of them do you think the average person heard of, let alone understood? Yeah.democracy only works if people are engaged, politicians for example only get away too easily with shit if people don't care. what terrorists want is for you to be afraid and stay at home. by being on the streets you are showing - here's the line you fucking cunt. As for terrorists, the gawker article is terrible. I'll find it tomorrow im sure, but theres an article looking at the political goals encouraged by terrorist groups in the last 20 years, a vanishingly small amount have ever succeeded in their goals. Terrorism does not exist because it works, it exists because people enjoy hatred, and they enjoy killing. Pretend otherwise if you want, but its true. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8761 Posts
you can't have it both ways, complain like a champ if things are in the shitter and don't work for improvements. and on the gawker article, well... agree to disagree  "success" is used very loosely here, don't expect solutions or recipes from the article. politicians promise you easy solutions, and what you get is seldom what was promised. just think about it. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
While sad, what happened also shows how men can do great thing on the moment, like the boss of that print shop who faced the terrorists in order to let his employee run away, or the security guard at the grocery who first protected the customer by putting them in the cold chamber, then faced the terrorist. | ||
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VelJa
France1109 Posts
On January 11 2015 18:47 WhiteDog wrote: While sad, what happened also shows how men can do great thing on the moment, like the boss of that print shop who faced the terrorists in order to let his employee run away, or the security guard at the grocery who first protected the customer by putting them in the cold chamber, then faced the terrorist. and this guy is a muslim. gratz | ||
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Acertos
France852 Posts
On January 11 2015 11:28 ZenithM wrote: Yeah, I don't get it. Probably some of this new-age parenting stuff, never tell your kid anything, let him/her be free to learn or not learn. Forging their own political / philosophical believes. It may be new age parenting stuff but forcing your 5 year old kid to accept an ideology without seeing the bigger picture is freaky in my opinion. Some people were bringing their babies and children to a manifestation they don't understand anything about. Last year there were the "Mariage pour tous" demonstrations and some parents brought their children that time too. I was simply pointing out that I find it retarded. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On January 11 2015 16:34 Doublemint wrote: terror, the word itself, says otherwise. and they have every reason to care. I'm kinda with Cloud on that though. People will go out and protest for free press all they want and that's great, but in the end journalists will probably publish a LOT less negative things about Islam going forward, so mission accomplished as far as the fuckers go. On January 11 2015 20:08 Acertos wrote: Forging their own political / philosophical believes. It may be new age parenting stuff but forcing your 5 year old kid to accept an ideology without seeing the bigger picture is freaky in my opinion. Some people were bringing their babies and children to a manifestation they don't understand anything about. Last year there were the "Mariage pour tous" demonstrations and some parents brought their children that time too. I was simply pointing out that I find it retarded. I got what forging you were talking about, but in the end parenting (the old way at least, maybe the new age stuff is really about letting your kids wandering about without telling them anything) is a lot about telling what you think is right to your children (be it consciously or not). I don't think "free speech and free press" is that bad of a belief to pass on your children if that's what you're demonstrating for, personally. | ||
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Acertos
France852 Posts
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Acertos
France852 Posts
On January 11 2015 20:11 ZenithM wrote: I'm kinda with Cloud on that though. People will go out and protest for free press all they want and that's great, but in the end journalists will probably publish a LOT less negative things about Islam going forward, so mission accomplished as far as the fuckers go. No, that's simply untrue. Perhaps on the short term yes, but it was a huge advertisement for Charlie Hebdo and for anti-religious speech so I don't see how the press will be more moderate. A huge number of people were shocked and enraged by that attack on freedom of speech and it gave motivation to a lot of people (youths and journalists), I just can't imagine the press being more moderate after that, quite the contrary actually. On January 11 2015 20:11 ZenithM wrote: I got what forging you were talking about, but in the end parenting (the old way at least, maybe the new age stuff is really about letting your kids wandering about without telling them anything) is a lot about telling what you think is right to your children (be it consciously or not). I don't think "free speech and free press" is that bad of a belief to pass on your children if that's what you're demonstrating for, personally. I think educating children isn't about what's right but more about what's wrong; after that they can grow up and decide what's right for themselves. My parents never tried to tell me what was the most right way to view things and that was a good thing imo (the only time I manifested with them was in 1998 for the World Cup). I just think finding your own way is always for the best This event isn't solely about free speech and free press, it is more complicated, it is also about terrorism, religion and criticizing / trashing religions and children can't understand these things without making amalgams. So I think bringing children to manifestations like these is dangerous without a long and proper explanation of everything related to the events and every position different group of people adopt relatively to these events. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On January 11 2015 20:25 Acertos wrote:[...] I think educating children isn't about what's right but more about what's wrong; after that they can grow up and decide what's right for themselves. What's wrong is tightly linked to what's right, usually ;D. If you think death penalty is wrong, then you think abolishing it is right. This event isn't solely about free speech and free press, it is more complicated, it is also about terrorism, religion and criticizing / trashing religions and children can't understand these things without making amalgams. [...] That's whyI added "if that's what you're demonstrating for". I know there is a lot of different stuff involved. I bet some people even demonstrate against Muslims, sadly enough. No, that's simply untrue. Perhaps on the short term yes, but it was a huge advertisement for Charlie Hebdo and for anti-religious speech so I don't see how the press will be more moderate. A huge number of people were shocked and enraged by that attack on freedom of speech and it gave motivation to a lot of people (youths and journalists), I just can't imagine the press being more moderate after that, quite the contrary actually. Maybe, we'll see, I guess. It's one thing to spout out anonymous hateful anti-muslim comments on Youtube, but quite another to continue publicly making fun of Islam's flaws in mass media after a whole bunch of journalists was brutally killed for it. | ||
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Acertos
France852 Posts
On January 11 2015 20:54 ZenithM wrote: What's wrong is tightly linked to what's right, usually ;D. If you think death penalty is wrong, then you think abolishing it is right. In general that's true but it's still arguable. We can't be sure if there is "one" right way when it comes down to social questions and I think people should stop with the the right / wrong alternative in non scientific debates. It also depends on your definition of morality. Personally I think it is relative to each person and that it is really flexible. My idea behind education is that, one should educate his child so that he knows the social codes and some basics of what morality is (these basics are usually shared by everyone) and then he can create his own opinions. It is about not forcing ideas that can be argued a lot like religion, ideologies (or free speech / hate speech in this case) into the child, he needs to think for himself and not being fed up something he doesn't understand. The values of our Republic are complicated and can be argued, people should come to understand by themselves that those, including the capacity to trash religions, are good things. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12068 Posts
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Acertos
France852 Posts
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On January 11 2015 21:57 Acertos wrote: If you can't find any solution then just don't demonstrate. It is also evident that if the child is with them he will demonstrate and agree vaguely with what the demonstration says because he is extremely attached to his parents and wants to please them. In general, children always agree with their parents on political matters and going to demonstration with children make things worse. I don't see the problem with parents teaching their children to value freedom of speech and mourning the death of 17 innocents people. | ||
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