Unarmed man killed by police officer in NY - Page 8
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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Foblos
United States426 Posts
On December 05 2014 04:28 jinorazi wrote: Protesting is fine but here in San Francisco they stand on main road and block one of busiest street and bart (subway ish) was delayed for two hours, making me late, by linking arms from platform to inside train and won't let it leave. Do it in front of city hall or something...why make us commuters mad? Because this affects everyone. You don't get away from this just because you don''t think it matters to/for you.Once people start getting pissy about their own inconvenience maybe they'll actually do something about it. | ||
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
there's a real otherness here where the in-group message isn't being read in the same way for someone outside of the group. yes, it may not be always the accurate category to look at, but it is an emotional, readily adopted identity category. holding a group of people as stupid/wrong and in any case not listening to the complaints because they didn't follow the most hygiene use of identifier for themselves is pretty silly. basically while it may not be a racial problem pure and simple, that some people talk about it in such a way shouldn't be a big problem for observers who genuinely care about the problems rather than vent race denominated sentiments themselves.. because, whatever the angry may say, there are some real issues. | ||
jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On December 05 2014 06:08 Foblos wrote: Because this affects everyone. You don't get away from this just because you don''t think it matters to/for you.Once people start getting pissy about their own inconvenience maybe they'll actually do something about it. Like what, get involved? I'm solely an observer in this issue as it'll be an never ending cycle of discrimination/prejudice. It'll improve as it has since the days of segregation but some form of discrimination will always, always exist along with the consequences it causes. | ||
Foblos
United States426 Posts
On December 05 2014 06:43 jinorazi wrote: Like what, get involved? I'm solely an observer in this issue as it'll be an never ending cycle of discrimination/prejudice. It'll improve as it has since the days of segregation but some form of discrimination will always, always exist along with the consequences it causes. I just take issue to that mindset. I know well that I'm never going to end the cycle, and I may not even make a dent in it, but if I change the cycle in one person's life it's worth it. If you were continually getting shit on you would want someone to try and help you, even if it is, for all intents and purposes, impossible. At least I would. As for getting involved, since this specifically is an American issue (not police brutality, but local and very prevalent in America), I ask no more than calling your representatives and governors and law makers and demand this shit get changed. I'm not okay with this any more than I'm okay with what is going on in North Korea, 1970s Vietnam, or the Nazi empire. I have to assume I'm not alone. It isn't a lot to ask. | ||
jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On December 05 2014 07:47 Foblos wrote: I just take issue to that mindset. I know well that I'm never going to end the cycle, and I may not even make a dent in it, but if I change the cycle in one person's life it's worth it. If you were continually getting shit on you would want someone to try and help you, even if it is, for all intents and purposes, impossible. At least I would. As for getting involved, since this specifically is an American issue (not police brutality, but local and very prevalent in America), I ask no more than calling your representatives and governors and law makers and demand this shit get changed. I'm not okay with this any more than I'm okay with what is going on in North Korea, 1970s Vietnam, or the Nazi empire. I have to assume I'm not alone. It isn't a lot to ask. in my opinion the best i can do is be a good example amongst my friends, family and the people i know. i personally dont think me calling a representative is going to change anything, my words will be nothing more than one of thousands treated by a policy designed to conveyer belt all the calls received and get a cliche "we understand" response. that brings my original complaint: protest smartly, get some celebrities or some big figure to back it / tweet it, protest at a police station or cityhall, do a organized march, pissing off regular everyday people dont do jack shit, unless the only goal was to get some publicity, not a smart way at that. fucking with people is the easiest way to vent frustration, i'm just pointing out how stupid it is and pointing out there are better ways to do it. me saying this to them wont do anything but antagonize them and get myself jumped. hence, i would never join these type of movement; these are not planned out with logical sense, its nothing about emotional out burst design to force everyone else to be hurt along with them. the palestine protests were very peaceful as far as i remember, they marched the main street with police escort and when it wasnt a big march, they stuck to the side walks. then again they did force some bart stations to close down. | ||
Chewbacca.
United States3633 Posts
On December 05 2014 06:08 Foblos wrote: Because this affects everyone. You don't get away from this just because you don''t think it matters to/for you.Once people start getting pissy about their own inconvenience maybe they'll actually do something about it. Pretty sure I'm more likely to try and slowly drive my car into them to push them out of the way than I am to join the cause of the assholes who are screwing with my life. Edit: Also, if I was someone who semi-supported there cause but wasn't fully committed to it, this would probably just push me further away from it rather than towards it. | ||
batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
- some guy's tweet | ||
Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On December 05 2014 12:20 batsnacks wrote: You know who WAS indicted by a grand jury? Ramsey Orta. He's the man who filmed Daniel Pantaleo chokeholding and killing Eric Garner. - some guy's tweet That implies that he was indicted for recording it and not for a weapons charge. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/ramsey-orta-indictment-eric-garner_n_6264746.html | ||
batsnacks
United States4466 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On December 05 2014 08:18 Chewbacca. wrote: Pretty sure I'm more likely to try and slowly drive my car into them to push them out of the way than I am to join the cause of the assholes who are screwing with my life. Edit: Also, if I was someone who semi-supported there cause but wasn't fully committed to it, this would probably just push me further away from it rather than towards it. And that get's you arrested and put in jail. Just happened in Minneapolis when some driver ran over a Ferguson protester after they announced the GJ decision. This is such an incredibly selfish attitude. Whoever thinks that just protesting out of the way of everyone will result in big changes is just woefully naive. When has that ever really worked? Sure as hell didn't work for the Civil Rights Movement. | ||
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
People are fine with the protests happening in highly visible places; they just don't want people blocking traffic and such. Also, they already have all the support they need for changes; all blocking traffic is is being an asshole to hurt people. | ||
Foblos
United States426 Posts
On December 05 2014 14:39 zlefin wrote: That is not what people are saying and you know it. People are fine with the protests happening in highly visible places; they just don't want people blocking traffic and such. Also, they already have all the support they need for changes; all blocking traffic is is being an asshole to hurt people. When you need to change how people are paid or how corporations are given preferential treatment, you protest in highly visible ways that are without consequence because it's more important to show solidarity with the need for change and vocalize the desire to do it peacefully. When your society needs to be changed much bigger demonstrations take place. In a negative example, the National Guard was called in to the south to prevent demonstrations turning into riots, and the "conversation" that ensued over the years formed the attitudes toward race we now have, which I think are better. I think in this context it makes sense. This isn't us peacefully living life on the ground making sure that we don't hurt each other more than we have to in trying to fix the system while the corporations and the politicians sit up high in their golden ivory towers. This is a herd of deer making a gigantic amount of ruckus to sound the alert against a pack of wolves. If this keeps going the way it is and police continue to get immunity to everything, it's going to get to a point that anyone, anywhere, will be afraid of the police by necessity because if you don't jump through their hoops they're going to abuse their power. At that point we're all going to have a lot less power and the change we're finally going to have to fight for will probably end up being one in which blood is spilled. I hope I'm just being hyperbolic, but it seems to be the end to me. Better that you're inconvenienced and finally have to do something because you're tired of being late or having a more difficult day than your grandchildren having to sneak around so they don't have the chance of coming into an altercation with corrupted authority. There is a lot at stake here and it isn't enough to just keep saying "Meh. This is Murica. We're free. It'll get sorted when <insert current president> gets out of office." It needs to change and it needs to change yesterday. If that takes drastic measures and makes a few people salty, so be it. | ||
oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On December 05 2014 14:53 Foblos wrote: When you need to change how people are paid or how corporations are given preferential treatment, you protest in highly visible ways that are without consequence because it's more important to show solidarity with the need for change and vocalize the desire to do it peacefully. When your society needs to be changed much bigger demonstrations take place. In a negative example, the National Guard was called in to the south to prevent demonstrations turning into riots, and the "conversation" that ensued over the years formed the attitudes toward race we now have, which I think are better. I think in this context it makes sense. This isn't us peacefully living life on the ground making sure that we don't hurt each other more than we have to in trying to fix the system while the corporations and the politicians sit up high in their golden ivory towers. This is a herd of deer making a gigantic amount of ruckus to sound the alert against a pack of wolves. If this keeps going the way it is and police continue to get immunity to everything, it's going to get to a point that anyone, anywhere, will be afraid of the police by necessity because if you don't jump through their hoops they're going to abuse their power. At that point we're all going to have a lot less power and the change we're finally going to have to fight for will probably end up being one in which blood is spilled. I hope I'm just being hyperbolic, but it seems to be the end to me. Better that you're inconvenienced and finally have to do something because you're tired of being late or having a more difficult day than your grandchildren having to sneak around so they don't have the chance of coming into an altercation with corrupted authority. There is a lot at stake here and it isn't enough to just keep saying "Meh. This is Murica. We're free. It'll get sorted when <insert current president> gets out of office." It needs to change and it needs to change yesterday. If that takes drastic measures and makes a few people salty, so be it. complaining about the 1%/corporation/etc. mostly come from those that are living in poverty or recently lost their jobs and this negative emotion needs to be exhausted to something and picking on the rich, the powerful is the most common way. by the way, my attitude towards the inconvenience from these protests is no different than rush hour traffic; i may be frustrated but i also know to expect it so i get over it. just to play devil advocate here, the "1%" or the united states government is really good at what they do: controlling the population enough so that mass riots dont happen and any government in the world will be aiming for this. this is the environment we live in, what these people are doing is just swimming against the current. you dont force yourself, you plan it and do something about it with smarts not labor. small amount of people complaining isn't going to change anything, really, nothing. (but i'm also aware if isnt for people like this, nothing will happen) this isnt the million man march. the protest i saw tonight was about 25 people with shit load of people just recording and watching whats going on. (protesters are lying down on the road, rest are observers.bigger picture) the government will just brush off something like this as they have before, its the norm like how big stores take into account of having their inventory stolen here and there by employees and customers. yes, this can be something to complain about but there are also countless more so all that people are doing is just picking and choosing to their own taste. so the best a person can do is survive within the system they're in or climb up the ranks. it isn't problem with corporations and whatnot, such things will always exist as long as there is greed in people and complaining about it is no different than complaining about rain in my view. its inevitable if you live in a society. discrimination will always be there in one form or another, its quiet naive and ignorant to think "racism will be gone" (as many would like to believe)...because if racism is indeed gone, it'll be nationalism, if not that, religion, if not that sexism and so on. its the nature of society to pick on whats different and make that even more apparent during hardship. however its effects can be lowered. what it requires is the people's attitude towards it, not the changing of its surrounding. eventually those with proper attitude can be in a position to make good changes. hence, it takes generations of people to actually make solid changes.(albeit naturally) the hard fact is, if it does get worse as you say, change wont happen until that worse thing happens. its the nature of revolution, ugly things needs to happen for the ugly revolution to take place like it or not. i dont think people are mature enough to act preemptively in such massive way before something bad happens. things change after it happens, always. on a different perspective in regards to complaining about the corporation; here we are the 20% using up 80% of the world's resources. contemplating which game or cpu to buy while there are vast more amount of people laboring to just eat. 1st world problems. | ||
Manit0u
Poland17056 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Maybe with the protests America will start making some sense with their police force. Doubtful, though. Perhaps rookies should not be put into those situations? Oh and also, it should be charges for killing a person / cause of death, not sure how much that is in America, hopefully plenty.You can't just go "oops" like that when you have a gun in your hand, one has to take responsibility. | ||
fruity.
England1711 Posts
Are your other 11,338 posts just as pointless, cantankerous meaningless drivel posts? | ||
seom
South Africa491 Posts
On December 05 2014 21:02 Manit0u wrote: Capital letters are just as useful as punctuation. Thought you should know. sorry to branch off topic, but really, why do you think this? I really don't believe in the necessity of a capital letter to start a sentence and personally find it aesthetically ugly and unnecessary. | ||
nunez
Norway4003 Posts
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