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Canada8989 Posts
On April 24 2017 03:19 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 03:16 LegalLord wrote:
Do we have any tallies rather than projections?
This result looks... anticlimactic. No real shakeup of worth, just Macron vs Le Pen. And Macron will win this one, do poorly, and we'll be right back here in another election cycle. The ruling class succeded with its coup, they managed to bomb the population with their marketing product and get him auto-elected because of the comfortable devil It's a nightmare
I can't believe this election is not a shakeup... Both big partis are down, there is probably gonna be a president with no majority in the Assemblée, Le Pen is in striking distance of the presidency (the right is at around 45% and it's not clear where Mélanchon voter are gonna go), and if Le Pen is not a shakeup I don't know what is. (not my kind of shakeup but still)
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I don't really know why people keep cheering for radical candidates. Radicalised minorities are not supposed to win in a democracy. People seem to forget that their are citizens around who didn't like them at all. Mélenchon's or Le Pen's vision is not something that a majority of French people want.
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On April 24 2017 03:27 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 03:19 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2017 03:16 LegalLord wrote:
Do we have any tallies rather than projections?
This result looks... anticlimactic. No real shakeup of worth, just Macron vs Le Pen. And Macron will win this one, do poorly, and we'll be right back here in another election cycle. The ruling class succeded with its coup, they managed to bomb the population with their marketing product and get him auto-elected because of the comfortable devil It's a nightmare I can't believe this election is not a shakeup... Both big partis are down, there is probably gonna be a president with no majority in the Assemblée, Le Pen is in striking distance of the presidency (the right is at around 45% and it's not clear where Mélanchon voter are gonna go), and if Le Pen is not a shakeup I don't know what is. (not my kind of shakeup but still)
It is merely a symbolic shakeup. Macaroon will win and the status quo will be preserved for another couple years. Even if the people have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the status quo.
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On April 24 2017 03:26 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 03:24 warding wrote:On April 24 2017 03:23 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2017 03:19 Makro wrote:
i have to say that watching the downfall of the PS is quite glorious and an enjoyable experience Yeah, it's my only source of solace. It's 1969 all over again, the social-democracy dying in disgrace and dishonor, and preventing a more radical left to reach the second round Can't you guys do your crazy radical left experiments without having to leave the EU? It would make me a little bit less nervous watching French elections that way... Can't do crazy radical left experiments in the common market, would probably violate one of the economic freedoms
Well, you can at least watch the results outside of a common market... Venezuela.
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On April 24 2017 03:27 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 03:19 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2017 03:16 LegalLord wrote:
Do we have any tallies rather than projections?
This result looks... anticlimactic. No real shakeup of worth, just Macron vs Le Pen. And Macron will win this one, do poorly, and we'll be right back here in another election cycle. The ruling class succeded with its coup, they managed to bomb the population with their marketing product and get him auto-elected because of the comfortable devil It's a nightmare I can't believe this election is not a shakeup... Both big partis are down, there is probably gonna be a president with no majority in the Assemblée, Le Pen is in striking distance of the presidency (the right is at around 45% and it's not clear where Mélanchon voter are gonna go), and if Le Pen is not a shakeup I don't know what is. (not my kind of shakeup but still)
IMO for Le Pen to have a chance at winning, she needed to win the first round by a good margin.
Its probably going to end just like in Austria and Belgium: the right making large gains but coming short.
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On April 24 2017 03:29 Nyxisto wrote:
I don't really know why people keep cheering for radical candidates. Radicalised minorities are not supposed to win in a democracy. People seem to forget that their are citizens around who didn't like them at all. Mélenchon's or Le Pen's vision is not something that a majority of French people want.
Because the people cheering for these radicals believe they are right and that the world will be a better place if they follow through?
Most people don't want to just spite everyone else.
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On April 24 2017 03:26 opisska wrote:
Looking in detail on the French system, why is this election such a big deal? The president isn't that as powerful as it might seem from the uproar about the elections. He isn't even a head of the government, he has to name a prime minister to be approved my the majority in the parliament. In fact his powers aren't that much bigger than those of the Czech president and here this post is largely considered symbolical (even though the latest holder has shown some pretty creative ways to abuse the powers for actual influence).
The president has massive power (I mean, theorically; now with globalization and the eurozone, he just follows the trend), the separation between executive and legislative is largely artificial. The Assemblée is mostly a registration chamber for the will of the executive
The prime minister is the president's minion, he doesn't really matter
That being said, Macron will have troubles getting a majority, and since he'll on top of a coalition of opposite views, the Parliament might actually matter a bit this time
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Canada8989 Posts
On April 24 2017 03:26 opisska wrote:
Looking in detail on the French system, why is this election such a big deal? The president isn't that as powerful as it might seem from the uproar about the elections. He isn't even a head of the government, he has to name a prime minister to be approved my the majority in the parliament. In fact his powers aren't that much bigger than those of the Czech president and here this post is largely considered symbolical (even though the latest holder has shown some pretty creative ways to abuse the powers for actual influence).
The president as a lot of power, he is the head of state and the most important political actor in french politics, and there is legislative election in a few week, witch usually mean that the party of the president won in the legislative, but that will almost surely not happen there this time so it's hard to say what is gonna happen.
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On April 24 2017 03:29 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 03:26 Sent. wrote:On April 24 2017 03:24 warding wrote:On April 24 2017 03:23 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2017 03:19 Makro wrote:
i have to say that watching the downfall of the PS is quite glorious and an enjoyable experience Yeah, it's my only source of solace. It's 1969 all over again, the social-democracy dying in disgrace and dishonor, and preventing a more radical left to reach the second round Can't you guys do your crazy radical left experiments without having to leave the EU? It would make me a little bit less nervous watching French elections that way... Can't do crazy radical left experiments in the common market, would probably violate one of the economic freedoms Well, you can at least watch the results outside of a common market... Venezuela.
isn't venezuela more a result of overdependence on oil prices?
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On April 24 2017 03:27 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 03:19 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2017 03:16 LegalLord wrote:
Do we have any tallies rather than projections?
This result looks... anticlimactic. No real shakeup of worth, just Macron vs Le Pen. And Macron will win this one, do poorly, and we'll be right back here in another election cycle. The ruling class succeded with its coup, they managed to bomb the population with their marketing product and get him auto-elected because of the comfortable devil It's a nightmare I can't believe this election is not a shakeup... Both big partis are down, there is probably gonna be a president with no majority in the Assemblée, Le Pen is in striking distance of the presidency (the right is at around 45% and it's not clear where Mélanchon voter are gonna go), and if Le Pen is not a shakeup I don't know what is. (not my kind of shakeup but still)
This election is of course an earthquake, the Vth system is collapsing, the PS is dying, and the UMP/LR might suffer a lot (though they can hope to have many more députés, so they may stay united in order to try to get a cohabitation)
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On April 24 2017 03:26 opisska wrote:
Looking in detail on the French system, why is this election such a big deal? The president isn't that as powerful as it might seem from the uproar about the elections. He isn't even a head of the government, he has to name a prime minister to be approved my the majority in the parliament. In fact his powers aren't that much bigger than those of the Czech president and here this post is largely considered symbolical (even though the latest holder has shown some pretty creative ways to abuse the powers for actual influence).
For those outside of France its not about France itself but to see if the shift towards populism seen in many countries throughout the west continues.
After Brexit and Trump people wonder if the world has gone stupid or just a few countries.
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On April 24 2017 03:26 opisska wrote:
Looking in detail on the French system, why is this election such a big deal? The president isn't that as powerful as it might seem from the uproar about the elections. He isn't even a head of the government, he has to name a prime minister to be approved my the majority in the parliament. In fact his powers aren't that much bigger than those of the Czech president and here this post is largely considered symbolical (even though the latest holder has shown some pretty creative ways to abuse the powers for actual influence).
not really, the good side of the 5th republic is that the president can rule even with low approval and in a crisis situation, so there is no excuse for any immobility
then again the role has never really been used as it should be, so there is that
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On April 24 2017 03:31 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 03:26 opisska wrote:
Looking in detail on the French system, why is this election such a big deal? The president isn't that as powerful as it might seem from the uproar about the elections. He isn't even a head of the government, he has to name a prime minister to be approved my the majority in the parliament. In fact his powers aren't that much bigger than those of the Czech president and here this post is largely considered symbolical (even though the latest holder has shown some pretty creative ways to abuse the powers for actual influence). The president has massive power (I mean, theorically; now with globalization and the eurozone, he just follows the trend), the separation between executive and legislative is largely artificial. The Assemblée is mostly a registration chamber for the will of the executive The prime minister is the president's minion, he doesn't really matter That being said, Macron will have troubles getting a majority, and since he'll on top of a coalition of opposite views, the Parliament might actually matter a bit this time
Well but that's the Assemblée's decision to be, isn't it? Because the technical powers of the president are pretty laughable, he can't even properly veto laws! Surely, if he has majority in the parliament, than he rules pretty freely, but that isn't what this election is about, is it? But if he hasn't majority, then he can't even appoint the government as he pleases, the parliament can always remove it, he can't pass any laws ...
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Didn't Fillon fail mostly because he's Fillon and not because he's the UMP/LR candidate? That scandal with his wife probably hurt his chances a lot
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On April 24 2017 03:29 Nyxisto wrote:
I don't really know why people keep cheering for radical candidates. Radicalised minorities are not supposed to win in a democracy. People seem to forget that their are citizens around who didn't like them at all. Mélenchon's or Le Pen's vision is not something that a majority of French people want.
Lol, you realize that Macron's vision is not a majority either? We have roughly 25-25-25-20 for left/centre/right/far-right, no one is majority in this country
Also lol @ thinking that Macron isn't radical, he is radical in his liberalism, we'll see that soon enough when he slaughters our social model
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On April 24 2017 03:29 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 03:26 Sent. wrote:On April 24 2017 03:24 warding wrote:On April 24 2017 03:23 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2017 03:19 Makro wrote:
i have to say that watching the downfall of the PS is quite glorious and an enjoyable experience Yeah, it's my only source of solace. It's 1969 all over again, the social-democracy dying in disgrace and dishonor, and preventing a more radical left to reach the second round Can't you guys do your crazy radical left experiments without having to leave the EU? It would make me a little bit less nervous watching French elections that way... Can't do crazy radical left experiments in the common market, would probably violate one of the economic freedoms Well, you can at least watch the results outside of a common market... Venezuela.
Then for example gulf states would have the same problems, but their countries are not bankrupt, extremly violent and close to a civil war.
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On April 24 2017 03:29 Nyxisto wrote:
I don't really know why people keep cheering for radical candidates. Radicalised minorities are not supposed to win in a democracy. People seem to forget that their are citizens around who didn't like them at all. Mélenchon's or Le Pen's vision is not something that a majority of French people want.
They win when people feel that the system is beyond repair and it needs to be torn down. The definitely are supposed to win in democracies from time to time, to remind major parties that they cannot just coast and ignore people.
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France12907 Posts
On April 24 2017 03:35 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 03:26 opisska wrote:
Looking in detail on the French system, why is this election such a big deal? The president isn't that as powerful as it might seem from the uproar about the elections. He isn't even a head of the government, he has to name a prime minister to be approved my the majority in the parliament. In fact his powers aren't that much bigger than those of the Czech president and here this post is largely considered symbolical (even though the latest holder has shown some pretty creative ways to abuse the powers for actual influence). For those outside of France its not about France itself but to see if the shift towards populism seen in many countries throughout the west continues. After Brexit and Trump people wonder if the world has gone stupid or just a few countries.
About Trump it's not that much the country going stupid but the system being stupid in the first place, isn't it?
Winning with fewer votes seems absurd :o
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On April 24 2017 03:37 Clonester wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 03:29 Clonester wrote:On April 24 2017 03:26 Sent. wrote:On April 24 2017 03:24 warding wrote:On April 24 2017 03:23 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2017 03:19 Makro wrote:
i have to say that watching the downfall of the PS is quite glorious and an enjoyable experience Yeah, it's my only source of solace. It's 1969 all over again, the social-democracy dying in disgrace and dishonor, and preventing a more radical left to reach the second round Can't you guys do your crazy radical left experiments without having to leave the EU? It would make me a little bit less nervous watching French elections that way... Can't do crazy radical left experiments in the common market, would probably violate one of the economic freedoms Well, you can at least watch the results outside of a common market... Venezuela. Then for example gulf states would have the same problems, but their countries are not bankrupt, extremly violent and close to a civil war.
Ever heard of Iraq? 
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Canada8989 Posts
On April 24 2017 03:36 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2017 03:31 TheDwf wrote:On April 24 2017 03:26 opisska wrote:
Looking in detail on the French system, why is this election such a big deal? The president isn't that as powerful as it might seem from the uproar about the elections. He isn't even a head of the government, he has to name a prime minister to be approved my the majority in the parliament. In fact his powers aren't that much bigger than those of the Czech president and here this post is largely considered symbolical (even though the latest holder has shown some pretty creative ways to abuse the powers for actual influence). The president has massive power (I mean, theorically; now with globalization and the eurozone, he just follows the trend), the separation between executive and legislative is largely artificial. The Assemblée is mostly a registration chamber for the will of the executive The prime minister is the president's minion, he doesn't really matter That being said, Macron will have troubles getting a majority, and since he'll on top of a coalition of opposite views, the Parliament might actually matter a bit this time Well but that's the Assemblée's decision to be, isn't it? Because the technical powers of the president are pretty laughable, he can't even properly veto laws! Surely, if he has majority in the parliament, than he rules pretty freely, but that isn't what this election is about, is it? But if he hasn't majority, then he can't even appoint the government as he pleases, the parliament can always remove it, he can't pass any laws ...
The president can dissolve the Assemblée when he want, and organize new election, and sure if the president don't have a majority he can't pass the law he wasn't but there is usually collaboration between the prime minister and the president.
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EPT
