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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
To continue on the German SPD story:
- Sigmar Gabriel retires from party leadership and won't become chancellor candidate of the SPD.
- Martin Schulz will fill both those roles.
- F.W. Steinmeier will leave his position as foreign minister and become new president of Germany (this news is older), so a new foreign minister from now until the election in fall is needed
This has been already mentioned here. But it continues:
- Sigmar Gabriel will also leave his position as minister for economy.
- Instead he will take over the position as minister for foreign affairs, following Steinmeier (here it was expected that Schulz will fill this vacancy)
- Brigitte Zypries (also SPD) will become new economy minister (she has been minister for justice in earlier Merkel governments and under Schröder)
Gabriel doesn't have much time in his new position... But this will be rather stark contrast to Steinmeier. One tactful, reserved, a behind-the-scenes forger... The other one direct, not shying away from any personal or diplomatic conflict and not bothering about saying things in public or holding back.
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www.theguardian.com Is the guardian an ok source for you guys? I did not bother to search much for English articles.
François Fillon, the right wing candidate for the French Presidential election paid his wife for a fake government job during 8 years. He was the favorite to win the election. He's denying atm but the papers have proof and Fillon said her wife has the right to work while she always presented herself as a housewife not involved in her husband's career and none of the people she should have worked with her as a parlementary attaché have seen her on duty.
Let's wait and see how it develops,
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On January 25 2017 21:50 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 16:45 Laurens wrote:On January 25 2017 06:48 Yuljan wrote:On January 25 2017 03:20 Morfildur wrote:On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com) People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel." And where to you get your inside few that most Germans are fine with it? Having grown up in a multicultural city and worked there until last year when I finally got the chance to say goodbye to Germany, none of the people from my workplace or friends support the immigration policies. Most of the former immigrants too. They are not quite at the level were theyd vote for a right wing party but most of them told me they are planning to leave Germany as well. How did Germany come out stronger from taking in the refugees? Crime rates have surged and most of the refugees will never contribute anything to the country. They are a drain on the whole society and the full impact will only become visible in 10 years. I like how some Germans often portray the world as crazy even though every other country saw the problems this shortsighted and idiotic immigration policy will have. Now they slowly admit to positiones that were labelled right wing/nazi only 1 year ago. To be honest I think the refugees was a major contributor to the rise of populist and right wing parties in the world given that people realized how deluded and shortsighted to current "democratic" (i.e. party oligarchies in the west) governments have become. It definitely was the deciding factor for Brexit. One and a half years ago they said you were crazy if you mentioned theyd be terrorist in the refugees (i.e. the guys fleeing from the syrian army advances - mainly supporters of al-nusra, ISIS and other islamist calling themself the free syrian army). Now we have daily raids on terrorist supporters and I dont even want to count the number of attacks perpetrated by people that came in as refugees. One year ago they said cologne was committed by these bad north africans who just pretend to be refugees. This year a mob of the same men came again and after police controlled them it turned out most of them are syrians. I could go on and on about this topic but I dont blame you for your ignorance. You live in a different world and I truly hope that my fears wont become true and Germany keeps on going as always. I personally have drawn my conclusion having lived in a muslim dominated neighbourhood and also studied in a muslim country for half a year. While I called many of them my friends, I would never want my children to grow up with these people. Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world and bringing in a mass of young, uneducated islamic men is a recipe for disaster of disproportional impact for the future of my former homeland. A state that does not control its border is not state at all so for me the German government has failed in every possible aspect. While a rebellion in Germany seems unlikely, I wouldnt consider it unjustified. User was temp banned for this post. Why was this a ban? Is it the line about "Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world"? You are only allowed to insult catholism or right wing ideas on teamliquid political forums, it seems. While I'm not comfortable calling an entire religion "a hateful doctrine", many of the followers o Islam interpret it that way, and inmigration policy should deal with that. If 0,1% of inmigrants were extremist (hint: number is probably higher) it would still be a MASSIVE PROBLEM, burying the head in the sand is not a solution.
You don't think at least 0.1% of white Germans are also extremists? Admit I'm on the outside but I kinda feel like the number would be a little higher.
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On January 26 2017 00:19 nojok wrote:www.theguardian.com Is the guardian an ok source for you guys? I did not bother to search much for English articles. François Fillon, the right wing candidate for the French Presidential election paid his wife for a fake government job during 8 years. He was the favorite to win the election. He's denying atm but the papers have proof and Fillon said her wife has the right to work while she always presented herself as a housewife not involved in her husband's career and none of the people she should have worked with her as a parlementary attaché have seen her on duty. Let's wait and see how it develops,
Can the right still pick someone with less scandals? Like Sarkozy? 
I guess Macron's chances are improving? Does anybody really like Macron? I can see Melenchon's appeal, but Macron seems like a pretty bland neoliberal?
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On January 26 2017 00:19 nojok wrote:www.theguardian.com Is the guardian an ok source for you guys? I did not bother to search much for English articles. François Fillon, the right wing candidate for the French Presidential election paid his wife for a fake government job during 8 years. He was the favorite to win the election. He's denying atm but the papers have proof and Fillon said her wife has the right to work while she always presented herself as a housewife not involved in her husband's career and none of the people she should have worked with her as a parlementary attaché have seen her on duty. Let's wait and see how it develops,
To bounce on this, look at all the disgusting stuff that French political life provided recently:
1) Le Pen (father and daughter) are suspected of underestimating their patrimony (2 millions €). An investigation is ongoing. Various people very close to the Front National are also charged for fraud linked to campaign financing;
2) It is suspected that Macron used government money to launch his political movement (120k€);
3) The PS tampered with the numbers of the first round of the primary: no proof of massive fraud, but they failed to provide clean detailed results in time, and thus abusively projected the percentages before providing the real numbers after journalists harassed them the whole day (it's complicated, but basically they shot themselves in the foot giving room to suspicions);
4) François Fillon is accused of giving his wife a fake job (actually, maybe two) during 8 years (for 500-600k€ in total). An investigation has just been launched by the national financial prosecution; [note that he had campaigned on the necessity of being “irreproachable” when it comes to ethic in politics...]
5) Claude Guéant, a former minister very close to Sarkozy, was sentenced to one year in prison because he siphoned some cash while he was minister (210k€)
6) Mediapart claims that some senators from the right apparently siphoned millions of euros from 2003 to 2014;
...
And keep in mind that the first month of the year is not even over yet. Long live French political life!
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One year in prison with or without probation?
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On January 26 2017 00:45 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2017 00:19 nojok wrote:www.theguardian.com Is the guardian an ok source for you guys? I did not bother to search much for English articles. François Fillon, the right wing candidate for the French Presidential election paid his wife for a fake government job during 8 years. He was the favorite to win the election. He's denying atm but the papers have proof and Fillon said her wife has the right to work while she always presented herself as a housewife not involved in her husband's career and none of the people she should have worked with her as a parlementary attaché have seen her on duty. Let's wait and see how it develops, Can the right still pick someone with less scandals? Like Sarkozy?
It's just so funny, Juppé had been condemned, Sarkozy was charged twice... and now Fillon, who acted like the white knight, is in deep trouble. All of them learned politics within the RPR (the party before the UMP), where mafia-like practices were notoriously widespread. Guess old demons don't die so easily...
I guess Macron's chances are improving? Does anybody really like Macron? I can see Melenchon's appeal, but Macron seems like a pretty bland neoliberal?
Macron is loved by TINA columnists (i.e. almost all of them), big bosses, bankers, etc. The amount of media coverage he received is beyond obscene. Part of the right wing of the PS already rallied him, and should Hamon win many more will most likely fly to him. He embodies neoliberalism, yes. He's supported by left-wing liberals, centrists, and some moderate fractions of the right. Bayrou had scored 18% in 2007; Macron occupies the same political space, but he can reach more since he's younger and the PS is almost dying. Hollande's withdrawal, Juppé's defeat and Hamon's likely win give him a boulevard. But for now he's protected by the fact that he says essentially nothing. He has no program yet, and should he stay high in the polls, all his opponents will start firing at him. At some point he will be forced to specify his intentions, and there problems may start for him.
On January 26 2017 01:22 Sent. wrote:
One year in prison with or without probation?
One with + one without actually.
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The paper which had the story apparently provided no sources so let's just see what the investigation uncovers before jumping on Fillon.
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Question.
How is the political climate in your countries in general?
Because in Switzerland the far right is growing AND the far left is growing/staying solid, really hurting are just the middle parties.
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On January 25 2017 16:45 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 06:48 Yuljan wrote:On January 25 2017 03:20 Morfildur wrote:On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com) People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel." And where to you get your inside few that most Germans are fine with it? Having grown up in a multicultural city and worked there until last year when I finally got the chance to say goodbye to Germany, none of the people from my workplace or friends support the immigration policies. Most of the former immigrants too. They are not quite at the level were theyd vote for a right wing party but most of them told me they are planning to leave Germany as well. How did Germany come out stronger from taking in the refugees? Crime rates have surged and most of the refugees will never contribute anything to the country. They are a drain on the whole society and the full impact will only become visible in 10 years. I like how some Germans often portray the world as crazy even though every other country saw the problems this shortsighted and idiotic immigration policy will have. Now they slowly admit to positiones that were labelled right wing/nazi only 1 year ago. To be honest I think the refugees was a major contributor to the rise of populist and right wing parties in the world given that people realized how deluded and shortsighted to current "democratic" (i.e. party oligarchies in the west) governments have become. It definitely was the deciding factor for Brexit. One and a half years ago they said you were crazy if you mentioned theyd be terrorist in the refugees (i.e. the guys fleeing from the syrian army advances - mainly supporters of al-nusra, ISIS and other islamist calling themself the free syrian army). Now we have daily raids on terrorist supporters and I dont even want to count the number of attacks perpetrated by people that came in as refugees. One year ago they said cologne was committed by these bad north africans who just pretend to be refugees. This year a mob of the same men came again and after police controlled them it turned out most of them are syrians. I could go on and on about this topic but I dont blame you for your ignorance. You live in a different world and I truly hope that my fears wont become true and Germany keeps on going as always. I personally have drawn my conclusion having lived in a muslim dominated neighbourhood and also studied in a muslim country for half a year. While I called many of them my friends, I would never want my children to grow up with these people. Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world and bringing in a mass of young, uneducated islamic men is a recipe for disaster of disproportional impact for the future of my former homeland. A state that does not control its border is not state at all so for me the German government has failed in every possible aspect. While a rebellion in Germany seems unlikely, I wouldnt consider it unjustified. User was temp banned for this post. Why was this a ban? Is it the line about "Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world"?
As the person who reported him, I did this solely because of that line, yes, which I would have reported no matter what religion/culture/other he'd put in there. Not that the rest of the post is worth much ; but it (imo) isn't ban-worthy
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On January 26 2017 01:55 RvB wrote:
The paper which had the story apparently provided no sources so let's just see what the investigation uncovers before jumping on Fillon.
No sources? They asked Pénélope Fillon's supposed colleagues (and there are names in the article) if they had seen her: nope. Some parliamentarian journalists also say that they never saw her at the Assemblée. Pénélope Fillon herself said a few months ago that she had “never been involved in the political life of [her] husband”.
Plus if there are signs of her activity, why didn't they provide it yet? It's a big scandal, potentially game-ending for Fillon. People talk about it non-stop since yesterday. They claim that she worked for 8 years, so there should be plenty of mails, letters, meetings, agendas, etc. to provide...
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On January 26 2017 01:55 RvB wrote:
The paper which had the story apparently provided no sources so let's just see what the investigation uncovers before jumping on Fillon.
Le Canard Enchainé is often sued, by politics expecting a lack of proofs, and always wins the trial. It's the best paper in France by far if you ask me. The government even installed cameras and microphones in their building in the 80s. They also have no sponsor/ads at all and no internet site.
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That sounds all sorts of awesome. How are they standing afloat?
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On January 26 2017 02:16 Velr wrote:
That sounds all sorts of awesome. How are they standing afloat?
They sell well, as simple as that.
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On January 26 2017 00:45 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2017 00:19 nojok wrote:www.theguardian.com Is the guardian an ok source for you guys? I did not bother to search much for English articles. François Fillon, the right wing candidate for the French Presidential election paid his wife for a fake government job during 8 years. He was the favorite to win the election. He's denying atm but the papers have proof and Fillon said her wife has the right to work while she always presented herself as a housewife not involved in her husband's career and none of the people she should have worked with her as a parlementary attaché have seen her on duty. Let's wait and see how it develops, Can the right still pick someone with less scandals? Like Sarkozy? I guess Macron's chances are improving? Does anybody really like Macron? I can see Melenchon's appeal, but Macron seems like a pretty bland neoliberal?
Macron's main strenghts are that he looks pretty young/charismatic/"inexperienced" (and thus genuine), and openly pursues economically liberal policies (something that appeals to the right) while also pushing for progressive social policies (something that appeals to the left). One of his characteristics is also that, much like no one else except Hamon (and Mélenchon, to some extent ? I'm no Mélenchon expert at all), his narrative is first and foremost about the economy and not so much about security/identity/anti-terrorism/etc. How this will serve or deserve him in the campaign, I dunno.
I think he has a very real chance to win, though, and I think bookmakers are really underestimating him. Unless terrorists start to go on a heavy killing spree between today and the election and/or scandals about him are discovered, he pretty much only has to go to the second round to win it all. And Fillon's campaign is looking worse and worse by the day : right-wingers voted in the primary for a guy who really embodies the current right's main desires and fetishes, while they should have voted for a consensual man who was capable to carry on to the second round and then harvest the easy win.
edit : I disagree about this scandal being big, though. I mean, if this was really game-ending, then the FN should have been game-ended two or three times already with all their recent financial scandals.
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Zurich15365 Posts
I don't get how they can't just stay away from filling their pockets when they are still aspiring high office.
Rather cash in after you exit politics, like sensibly corrupt people like Schroeder.
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On January 26 2017 02:30 zatic wrote:
I don't get how they can't just stay away from filling their pockets when they are still aspiring high office.
Rather cash in after you exit politics, like sensibly corrupt people like Schroeder.
Once it's cultural, you can't escape it, much like doping or cheating in other circles...
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On January 25 2017 16:57 mustaju wrote:
@elisar - what sort of price tag would be appropriate for more stability in the Near-East region and general humanitarianism? The refugees don't just disappear when rejected.
A good question I have no answer for.
But maybe you can help me with that one: Who do you want to pay the bill and who is paying the bill right now? My assumption:Those two answers will differ.
And besides, I am not against spending money for those in need. But there are logical limits.
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On January 26 2017 02:03 Velr wrote:
Question.
How is the political climate in your countries in general?
Because in Switzerland the far right is growing AND the far left is growing/staying solid, really hurting are just the middle parties.
I would say that the French society is increasingly polarized, with each sector “radicalizing” in its own way (i.e. returning to its fundamentals). The PS is completely collapsing, mostly because of the tension between social-democrats and social-liberals.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On January 26 2017 02:03 Velr wrote:
Question.
How is the political climate in your countries in general?
Because in Switzerland the far right is growing AND the far left is growing/staying solid, really hurting are just the middle parties.
I would say in my country the far right is stabilizing, but not growing. We have a completely new government with a party at the head which has been pushed away for 13 years due to corrupt leadership. They have cleansed themselves and unless something major happens, I don't expect our far right to gain more ground than the 10% they have now.
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EPT
