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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com)
People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel."
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Took in most refugees, in Europe.
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On January 25 2017 00:01 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2017 03:51 Velr wrote:
Yeah, because tickle down has proven to work so good for the lower/middle class... seriously? Corporate taxes are the most damaging tax in existence. Lowering corporate taxes gives increased returns on capital. This means more capital investment and more R&D. Then there's also the fact that (high) corporate taxes increase the informal economy. The negative effects of corporate taxes are pretty well researched. Show nested quote +Corporate income taxes appear to have a particularly negative impact on GDP per capita. This is consistent with the previously reviewed evidence and empirical findings that lowering corporate taxes raises TFP growth and investment. Reducing the corporate tax rate also appears to be particularly beneficial for TFP growth of the most dynamic and innovative firms. Thus, it seems that corporate taxation affects performance particularly in industries and firms that are likely to add to growth www.oecd.orgCorporate taxation also has a negative effect on wages. Corporate tax is borne by shareholders, employees, consumers etc. There's a wide body of research on how much of of the burden is on labour. Estimates range from none to 360%. This study comes to the conclusion that it's 50% (There might be significant differences by country, firm etc. though). Show nested quote +A conservative reading of the available evidence would suggest that raising additional revenue through the
corporate income tax comes at the cost of a short to medium term decline in wages of at least 50 per cent of the
additional revenue raised www.etpf.orgEven if most of the burden falls on shareholders that can be bad for the middle class. A lot of the biggest shareholders are public institutions like pension funds or sovereign wealth funds. A better alternative for corporate taxes would be property taxes. Property taxes are progressive as well. Why don't you provide an actual argument for why you think corporate taxes are a good thing instead of reverting to the vague concept of trickle down economics whenever someone mentions lower taxes. Show nested quote +On January 24 2017 20:30 Acrofales wrote:On January 24 2017 11:34 Yoav wrote:On January 24 2017 03:51 Velr wrote:
Yeah, because tickle down has proven to work so good for the lower/middle class... seriously? You address people with high incomes via the income tax. Corporate tax is a tax on literally everyone and everything except the government (and even there it increases costs). And how do you address people who stash their high incomes in a corporate shell, and use all those other complicated tax structures to ensure that they are the sole benefactors of whatever that corporation (which exists solely as a shell to stash money and not pay taxes) decides to pay for. It's just so so so much easier to charge corporate taxes than try to shut down all loopholes that allow people to create corporate shells. You want a corporate shell? Fine. But you pay the same taxes as somebody who simply receive their money as a private person. Usually they're taxed when they get it out of the company, an income tax (In NL at least). The problem with using corporate tax as a solution against shell companies is that it doesn't work. Shell companies exist solely to lessen the tax burden and avoid things like a corporate tax. A higher tax will only push more rich people to create these shell companies. Believe it or not most people prefer to simply pay taxes instead of creating complicated structures. Edit: Corporate tax is also levied on SMEs. It's not just (or mainly) multinationals who have to pay it. Owners of SMEs are exactly the middle class you apparently support.
I don't even get why we have corporate taxes and I would consider myself as a far leftist. Simply taxing the individual income seems much simpler and more fair.
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On January 25 2017 03:20 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com) People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel."
And where to you get your inside few that most Germans are fine with it? Having grown up in a multicultural city and worked there until last year when I finally got the chance to say goodbye to Germany, none of the people from my workplace or friends support the immigration policies. Most of the former immigrants too. They are not quite at the level were theyd vote for a right wing party but most of them told me they are planning to leave Germany as well.
How did Germany come out stronger from taking in the refugees? Crime rates have surged and most of the refugees will never contribute anything to the country. They are a drain on the whole society and the full impact will only become visible in 10 years. I like how some Germans often portray the world as crazy even though every other country saw the problems this shortsighted and idiotic immigration policy will have. Now they slowly admit to positiones that were labelled right wing/nazi only 1 year ago. To be honest I think the refugees was a major contributor to the rise of populist and right wing parties in the world given that people realized how deluded and shortsighted to current "democratic" (i.e. party oligarchies in the west) governments have become. It definitely was the deciding factor for Brexit.
One and a half years ago they said you were crazy if you mentioned theyd be terrorist in the refugees (i.e. the guys fleeing from the syrian army advances - mainly supporters of al-nusra, ISIS and other islamist calling themself the free syrian army). Now we have daily raids on terrorist supporters and I dont even want to count the number of attacks perpetrated by people that came in as refugees.
One year ago they said cologne was committed by these bad north africans who just pretend to be refugees. This year a mob of the same men came again and after police controlled them it turned out most of them are syrians.
I could go on and on about this topic but I dont blame you for your ignorance. You live in a different world and I truly hope that my fears wont become true and Germany keeps on going as always. I personally have drawn my conclusion having lived in a muslim dominated neighbourhood and also studied in a muslim country for half a year. While I called many of them my friends, I would never want my children to grow up with these people. Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world and bringing in a mass of young, uneducated islamic men is a recipe for disaster of disproportional impact for the future of my former homeland. A state that does not control its border is not state at all so for me the German government has failed in every possible aspect. While a rebellion in Germany seems unlikely, I wouldnt consider it unjustified.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On January 25 2017 06:48 Yuljan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 03:20 Morfildur wrote:On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com) People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel." And where to you get your inside few that most Germans are fine with it? Having grown up in a multicultural city and worked there until last year when I finally got the chance to say goodbye to Germany, none of the people from my workplace or friends support the immigration policies. Most of the former immigrants too. They are not quite at the level were theyd vote for a right wing party but most of them told me they are planning to leave Germany as well. How did Germany come out stronger from taking in the refugees? Crime rates have surged and most of the refugees will never contribute anything to the country. They are a drain on the whole society and the full impact will only become visible in 10 years. I like how some Germans often portray the world as crazy even though every other country saw the problems this shortsighted and idiotic immigration policy will have. Now they slowly admit to positiones that were labelled right wing/nazi only 1 year ago. To be honest I think the refugees was a major contributor to the rise of populist and right wing parties in the world given that people realized how deluded and shortsighted to current "democratic" (i.e. party oligarchies in the west) governments have become. It definitely was the deciding factor for Brexit. One and a half years ago they said you were crazy if you mentioned theyd be terrorist in the refugees (i.e. the guys fleeing from the syrian army advances - mainly supporters of al-nusra, ISIS and other islamist calling themself the free syrian army). Now we have daily raids on terrorist supporters and I dont even want to count the number of attacks perpetrated by people that came in as refugees. One year ago they said cologne was committed by these bad north africans who just pretend to be refugees. This year a mob of the same men came again and after police controlled them it turned out most of them are syrians. I could go on and on about this topic but I dont blame you for your ignorance. You live in a different world and I truly hope that my fears wont become true and Germany keeps on going as always. I personally have drawn my conclusion having lived in a muslim dominated neighbourhood and also studied in a muslim country for half a year. While I called many of them my friends, I would never want my children to grow up with these people. Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world and bringing in a mass of young, uneducated islamic men is a recipe for disaster of disproportional impact for the future of my former homeland. A state that does not control its border is not state at all so for me the German government has failed in every possible aspect. While a rebellion in Germany seems unlikely, I wouldnt consider it unjustified.
Great post. I definitely feel you.
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On January 25 2017 08:28 SoSexy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 06:48 Yuljan wrote:On January 25 2017 03:20 Morfildur wrote:On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com) People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel." And where to you get your inside few that most Germans are fine with it? Having grown up in a multicultural city and worked there until last year when I finally got the chance to say goodbye to Germany, none of the people from my workplace or friends support the immigration policies. Most of the former immigrants too. They are not quite at the level were theyd vote for a right wing party but most of them told me they are planning to leave Germany as well. How did Germany come out stronger from taking in the refugees? Crime rates have surged and most of the refugees will never contribute anything to the country. They are a drain on the whole society and the full impact will only become visible in 10 years. I like how some Germans often portray the world as crazy even though every other country saw the problems this shortsighted and idiotic immigration policy will have. Now they slowly admit to positiones that were labelled right wing/nazi only 1 year ago. To be honest I think the refugees was a major contributor to the rise of populist and right wing parties in the world given that people realized how deluded and shortsighted to current "democratic" (i.e. party oligarchies in the west) governments have become. It definitely was the deciding factor for Brexit. One and a half years ago they said you were crazy if you mentioned theyd be terrorist in the refugees (i.e. the guys fleeing from the syrian army advances - mainly supporters of al-nusra, ISIS and other islamist calling themself the free syrian army). Now we have daily raids on terrorist supporters and I dont even want to count the number of attacks perpetrated by people that came in as refugees. One year ago they said cologne was committed by these bad north africans who just pretend to be refugees. This year a mob of the same men came again and after police controlled them it turned out most of them are syrians. I could go on and on about this topic but I dont blame you for your ignorance. You live in a different world and I truly hope that my fears wont become true and Germany keeps on going as always. I personally have drawn my conclusion having lived in a muslim dominated neighbourhood and also studied in a muslim country for half a year. While I called many of them my friends, I would never want my children to grow up with these people. Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world and bringing in a mass of young, uneducated islamic men is a recipe for disaster of disproportional impact for the future of my former homeland. A state that does not control its border is not state at all so for me the German government has failed in every possible aspect. While a rebellion in Germany seems unlikely, I wouldnt consider it unjustified. Great post. I definitely feel you.
I'll just second this, i think Yuljan did a better job explaining my thoughts on the issue better than i could myself.
Edit: Oh apparently he was banned for that post, okay.
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Banned for good reasons.
He was for the most part repeating the same false "facts" of most right wing populists.
Like rising crime rates (haven't gone up in general and in places where they did it has nothing to do with immigrants [e.g. cybercrimes])
Or that we only got uneducated Syrians that will drain our social systems. Actually the refugees that managed to get through all the way to Germany before the route was closed are generally the ones with (better) education (compared to those that stayed in Turkey etc.)
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On January 25 2017 10:52 shin ken wrote:
Or that we only got uneducated Syrians that will drain our social systems. Actually the refugees that managed to get through all the way to Germany before the route was closed are generally the ones with (better) education (compared to those that stayed in Turkey etc.)
source? genuine question.
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On January 25 2017 06:48 Yuljan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 03:20 Morfildur wrote:On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com) People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel." And where to you get your inside few that most Germans are fine with it? Having grown up in a multicultural city and worked there until last year when I finally got the chance to say goodbye to Germany, none of the people from my workplace or friends support the immigration policies. Most of the former immigrants too. They are not quite at the level were theyd vote for a right wing party but most of them told me they are planning to leave Germany as well. How did Germany come out stronger from taking in the refugees? Crime rates have surged and most of the refugees will never contribute anything to the country. They are a drain on the whole society and the full impact will only become visible in 10 years. I like how some Germans often portray the world as crazy even though every other country saw the problems this shortsighted and idiotic immigration policy will have. Now they slowly admit to positiones that were labelled right wing/nazi only 1 year ago. To be honest I think the refugees was a major contributor to the rise of populist and right wing parties in the world given that people realized how deluded and shortsighted to current "democratic" (i.e. party oligarchies in the west) governments have become. It definitely was the deciding factor for Brexit. One and a half years ago they said you were crazy if you mentioned theyd be terrorist in the refugees (i.e. the guys fleeing from the syrian army advances - mainly supporters of al-nusra, ISIS and other islamist calling themself the free syrian army). Now we have daily raids on terrorist supporters and I dont even want to count the number of attacks perpetrated by people that came in as refugees. One year ago they said cologne was committed by these bad north africans who just pretend to be refugees. This year a mob of the same men came again and after police controlled them it turned out most of them are syrians. I could go on and on about this topic but I dont blame you for your ignorance. You live in a different world and I truly hope that my fears wont become true and Germany keeps on going as always. I personally have drawn my conclusion having lived in a muslim dominated neighbourhood and also studied in a muslim country for half a year. While I called many of them my friends, I would never want my children to grow up with these people. Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world and bringing in a mass of young, uneducated islamic men is a recipe for disaster of disproportional impact for the future of my former homeland. A state that does not control its border is not state at all so for me the German government has failed in every possible aspect. While a rebellion in Germany seems unlikely, I wouldnt consider it unjustified. User was temp banned for this post.
Why was this a ban?
Is it the line about "Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world"?
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On January 25 2017 10:52 shin ken wrote:
Banned for good reasons.
He was for the most part repeating the same false "facts" of most right wing populists.
Like rising crime rates (haven't gone up in general and in places where they did it has nothing to do with immigrants [e.g. cybercrimes])
Or that we only got uneducated Syrians that will drain our social systems. Actually the refugees that managed to get through all the way to Germany before the route was closed are generally the ones with (better) education (compared to those that stayed in Turkey etc.)
While I´m agreeing in general with the crime rates part, I strongly disagree with the educated syrians part.
Yes, we got the better part i.e. more educated part of the syrians. But in Germany they have to compete with the people living here. Yes, we also have some lazy Germans who can hardly be called educated, but in comparison to illiterates (1/5 of refugees) even they shine.
I don´t want to state this as my personal oppinion. Even the politicians realized that more than a year ago. Like Andrea Nahles said: Not all are highly educated (the so called syrian doctors etc., sources say, that 1/5 of asylum seekers have studied), in fact about 10% are ready for the labor market.
https://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2015/09/11/nahles-nicht-einmal-jeder-zehnte-fluechtling-fuer-arbeit-oder-ausbildung-qualifiziert/
According to this source, roughly 2/3 don´t have a qualifying degree (Germans about 14%):
https://www.welt.de/regionales/hamburg/article153237847/Viele-Fluechtlinge-im-Grunde-Analphabeten.html
That might have changed by now, maybe. But in the short term Germany will have to pay lots of money for them (thats 28 billions per year, according to this source: http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2017-01/konjunktur-studie-fluechtlinge-deutschland-wirtschaftswachstum-bruttoinlandsprodukt/seite-2).
Maybe they "solve the demographic problem" in the future and this investment of tax money pays of, but I have serious doubts about that.
Sorry, the sources provided are in german.
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Estonia4504 Posts
On January 25 2017 16:45 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 06:48 Yuljan wrote:On January 25 2017 03:20 Morfildur wrote:On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com) People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel." And where to you get your inside few that most Germans are fine with it? Having grown up in a multicultural city and worked there until last year when I finally got the chance to say goodbye to Germany, none of the people from my workplace or friends support the immigration policies. Most of the former immigrants too. They are not quite at the level were theyd vote for a right wing party but most of them told me they are planning to leave Germany as well. How did Germany come out stronger from taking in the refugees? Crime rates have surged and most of the refugees will never contribute anything to the country. They are a drain on the whole society and the full impact will only become visible in 10 years. I like how some Germans often portray the world as crazy even though every other country saw the problems this shortsighted and idiotic immigration policy will have. Now they slowly admit to positiones that were labelled right wing/nazi only 1 year ago. To be honest I think the refugees was a major contributor to the rise of populist and right wing parties in the world given that people realized how deluded and shortsighted to current "democratic" (i.e. party oligarchies in the west) governments have become. It definitely was the deciding factor for Brexit. One and a half years ago they said you were crazy if you mentioned theyd be terrorist in the refugees (i.e. the guys fleeing from the syrian army advances - mainly supporters of al-nusra, ISIS and other islamist calling themself the free syrian army). Now we have daily raids on terrorist supporters and I dont even want to count the number of attacks perpetrated by people that came in as refugees. One year ago they said cologne was committed by these bad north africans who just pretend to be refugees. This year a mob of the same men came again and after police controlled them it turned out most of them are syrians. I could go on and on about this topic but I dont blame you for your ignorance. You live in a different world and I truly hope that my fears wont become true and Germany keeps on going as always. I personally have drawn my conclusion having lived in a muslim dominated neighbourhood and also studied in a muslim country for half a year. While I called many of them my friends, I would never want my children to grow up with these people. Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world and bringing in a mass of young, uneducated islamic men is a recipe for disaster of disproportional impact for the future of my former homeland. A state that does not control its border is not state at all so for me the German government has failed in every possible aspect. While a rebellion in Germany seems unlikely, I wouldnt consider it unjustified. User was temp banned for this post. Why was this a ban? Is it the line about "Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world"?
If I had to guess, it would be that a lot of his arguments were made in absentia without sources, and that this is not his first offense. That would probably be a politics thread specific violation. (Note that this is me guessing, I neither handled the report nor did I file it.)
@elisar - what sort of price tag would be appropriate for more stability in the Near-East region and general humanitarianism? The refugees don't just disappear when rejected.
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i've read about a Marshall plan that Germany has for N-Africa but it'll probably be way to late.
Edit: and it seems to require a reciprocity of sorts - https://euobserver.com/migration/136600 Germany has unveiled a plan for Africa that aims to increase trade and development as part of a larger effort to curb migrant flows to Europe.
A 33-page blueprint, presented on Wednesday (18 January) in Berlin by Germany's development minister Gerd Muller, covers areas from energy to tax evasion and market access.
Muller said on his website that a "whole new dimension of cooperation with Africa" was needed and that Germany was ready to support governments in Africa in the endeavour.
"Anyone who fights corruption, builds tax systems, invests in education and relies on gender equality can expect more support from us," he said.
He said fast-growing economies in Africa presented a host of opportunities for German businesses.
German media report development funds will increase by another 20 percent for countries that undertake the reforms.
Dubbed the Marshall Plan, in reference to US aid to Western Europe following WWII, the proposal is likely to become a major feature of Germany's G20 presidency this year.
But critics say the blueprint fails to explain how the plan would be tailored to the 54 separate countries on the African continent.
"Unfortunately the Marshall plan remains unspecific on how the concrete measures and instruments will look like," Christoph Kannengiesser, managing director of the Afrika Verein, told Deutsche Welle news website. the rest + Show Spoiler +The EU launched similar schemes known as migration compacts last summer with Mali, Nigeria, Niger, Senegal, and Ethiopia, as part of its new "migration partnership framework".
The EU's effort also aims to slow irregular migrant flows into Europe by looking at the political, social, and economic dimensions of development.
But a progress report issued in December noted major hurdles in terms of linking the compacts with policies on legal migration, trade, energy, agriculture, and education.
Last September, the European Commission had also announced an investment plan for Africa and is hoping to shore up some €88 billion from EU states.
The flurry of recent EU plans can be traced back to the Valletta summit on migration in late 2015. The summit was called in reaction to a large inflow of migrants seeking refuge in the EU.
African heads of governments and states gathered at the event, alongside their European counterparts.
The two sides issued a joint statement on deepening cooperation but differences on readmission of rejected migrants and creating more legal channels for migrants to arrive in Europe remain entrenched. The EU commission had also launched a €1.8 billion trust fund to support the measures.
A follow-up of what has evolved from the 2015 Valletta migration summit is set for early February in Malta.
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On January 25 2017 16:45 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 06:48 Yuljan wrote:On January 25 2017 03:20 Morfildur wrote:On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com) People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel." And where to you get your inside few that most Germans are fine with it? Having grown up in a multicultural city and worked there until last year when I finally got the chance to say goodbye to Germany, none of the people from my workplace or friends support the immigration policies. Most of the former immigrants too. They are not quite at the level were theyd vote for a right wing party but most of them told me they are planning to leave Germany as well. How did Germany come out stronger from taking in the refugees? Crime rates have surged and most of the refugees will never contribute anything to the country. They are a drain on the whole society and the full impact will only become visible in 10 years. I like how some Germans often portray the world as crazy even though every other country saw the problems this shortsighted and idiotic immigration policy will have. Now they slowly admit to positiones that were labelled right wing/nazi only 1 year ago. To be honest I think the refugees was a major contributor to the rise of populist and right wing parties in the world given that people realized how deluded and shortsighted to current "democratic" (i.e. party oligarchies in the west) governments have become. It definitely was the deciding factor for Brexit. One and a half years ago they said you were crazy if you mentioned theyd be terrorist in the refugees (i.e. the guys fleeing from the syrian army advances - mainly supporters of al-nusra, ISIS and other islamist calling themself the free syrian army). Now we have daily raids on terrorist supporters and I dont even want to count the number of attacks perpetrated by people that came in as refugees. One year ago they said cologne was committed by these bad north africans who just pretend to be refugees. This year a mob of the same men came again and after police controlled them it turned out most of them are syrians. I could go on and on about this topic but I dont blame you for your ignorance. You live in a different world and I truly hope that my fears wont become true and Germany keeps on going as always. I personally have drawn my conclusion having lived in a muslim dominated neighbourhood and also studied in a muslim country for half a year. While I called many of them my friends, I would never want my children to grow up with these people. Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world and bringing in a mass of young, uneducated islamic men is a recipe for disaster of disproportional impact for the future of my former homeland. A state that does not control its border is not state at all so for me the German government has failed in every possible aspect. While a rebellion in Germany seems unlikely, I wouldnt consider it unjustified. User was temp banned for this post. Why was this a ban? Is it the line about "Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world"?
You are only allowed to insult catholism or right wing ideas on teamliquid political forums, it seems.
While I'm not comfortable calling an entire religion "a hateful doctrine", many of the followers o Islam interpret it that way, and inmigration policy should deal with that. If 0,1% of inmigrants were extremist (hint: number is probably higher) it would still be a MASSIVE PROBLEM, burying the head in the sand is not a solution.
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On January 25 2017 21:50 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 16:45 Laurens wrote:On January 25 2017 06:48 Yuljan wrote:On January 25 2017 03:20 Morfildur wrote:On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com) People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel." And where to you get your inside few that most Germans are fine with it? Having grown up in a multicultural city and worked there until last year when I finally got the chance to say goodbye to Germany, none of the people from my workplace or friends support the immigration policies. Most of the former immigrants too. They are not quite at the level were theyd vote for a right wing party but most of them told me they are planning to leave Germany as well. How did Germany come out stronger from taking in the refugees? Crime rates have surged and most of the refugees will never contribute anything to the country. They are a drain on the whole society and the full impact will only become visible in 10 years. I like how some Germans often portray the world as crazy even though every other country saw the problems this shortsighted and idiotic immigration policy will have. Now they slowly admit to positiones that were labelled right wing/nazi only 1 year ago. To be honest I think the refugees was a major contributor to the rise of populist and right wing parties in the world given that people realized how deluded and shortsighted to current "democratic" (i.e. party oligarchies in the west) governments have become. It definitely was the deciding factor for Brexit. One and a half years ago they said you were crazy if you mentioned theyd be terrorist in the refugees (i.e. the guys fleeing from the syrian army advances - mainly supporters of al-nusra, ISIS and other islamist calling themself the free syrian army). Now we have daily raids on terrorist supporters and I dont even want to count the number of attacks perpetrated by people that came in as refugees. One year ago they said cologne was committed by these bad north africans who just pretend to be refugees. This year a mob of the same men came again and after police controlled them it turned out most of them are syrians. I could go on and on about this topic but I dont blame you for your ignorance. You live in a different world and I truly hope that my fears wont become true and Germany keeps on going as always. I personally have drawn my conclusion having lived in a muslim dominated neighbourhood and also studied in a muslim country for half a year. While I called many of them my friends, I would never want my children to grow up with these people. Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world and bringing in a mass of young, uneducated islamic men is a recipe for disaster of disproportional impact for the future of my former homeland. A state that does not control its border is not state at all so for me the German government has failed in every possible aspect. While a rebellion in Germany seems unlikely, I wouldnt consider it unjustified. User was temp banned for this post. Why was this a ban? Is it the line about "Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world"? You are only allowed to insult catholism or right wing ideas on teamliquid political forums, it seems. While I'm not comfortable calling an entire religion "a hateful doctrine", many of the followers o Islam interpret it that way, and inmigration policy should deal with that. If 0,1% of inmigrants were extremist (hint: number is probably higher) it would still be a MASSIVE PROBLEM, burying the head in the sand is not a solution.
Yeah this ban really irks me. It's as if a mod disagreed with his opinion and then just banned him. I'd love to know which rules he broke with that post cause I don't see it.
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On January 25 2017 22:02 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 21:50 GoTuNk! wrote:On January 25 2017 16:45 Laurens wrote:On January 25 2017 06:48 Yuljan wrote:On January 25 2017 03:20 Morfildur wrote:On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com) People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel." And where to you get your inside few that most Germans are fine with it? Having grown up in a multicultural city and worked there until last year when I finally got the chance to say goodbye to Germany, none of the people from my workplace or friends support the immigration policies. Most of the former immigrants too. They are not quite at the level were theyd vote for a right wing party but most of them told me they are planning to leave Germany as well. How did Germany come out stronger from taking in the refugees? Crime rates have surged and most of the refugees will never contribute anything to the country. They are a drain on the whole society and the full impact will only become visible in 10 years. I like how some Germans often portray the world as crazy even though every other country saw the problems this shortsighted and idiotic immigration policy will have. Now they slowly admit to positiones that were labelled right wing/nazi only 1 year ago. To be honest I think the refugees was a major contributor to the rise of populist and right wing parties in the world given that people realized how deluded and shortsighted to current "democratic" (i.e. party oligarchies in the west) governments have become. It definitely was the deciding factor for Brexit. One and a half years ago they said you were crazy if you mentioned theyd be terrorist in the refugees (i.e. the guys fleeing from the syrian army advances - mainly supporters of al-nusra, ISIS and other islamist calling themself the free syrian army). Now we have daily raids on terrorist supporters and I dont even want to count the number of attacks perpetrated by people that came in as refugees. One year ago they said cologne was committed by these bad north africans who just pretend to be refugees. This year a mob of the same men came again and after police controlled them it turned out most of them are syrians. I could go on and on about this topic but I dont blame you for your ignorance. You live in a different world and I truly hope that my fears wont become true and Germany keeps on going as always. I personally have drawn my conclusion having lived in a muslim dominated neighbourhood and also studied in a muslim country for half a year. While I called many of them my friends, I would never want my children to grow up with these people. Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world and bringing in a mass of young, uneducated islamic men is a recipe for disaster of disproportional impact for the future of my former homeland. A state that does not control its border is not state at all so for me the German government has failed in every possible aspect. While a rebellion in Germany seems unlikely, I wouldnt consider it unjustified. User was temp banned for this post. Why was this a ban? Is it the line about "Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world"? You are only allowed to insult catholism or right wing ideas on teamliquid political forums, it seems. While I'm not comfortable calling an entire religion "a hateful doctrine", many of the followers o Islam interpret it that way, and inmigration policy should deal with that. If 0,1% of inmigrants were extremist (hint: number is probably higher) it would still be a MASSIVE PROBLEM, burying the head in the sand is not a solution. Yeah this ban really irks me. It's as if a mod disagreed with his opinion and then just banned him. I'd love to know which rules he broke with that post cause I don't see it.
People are so accustomed to racist posts in this thread that they don't even see what's wrong anymore. Really sad.
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On January 25 2017 22:06 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 22:02 Laurens wrote:On January 25 2017 21:50 GoTuNk! wrote:On January 25 2017 16:45 Laurens wrote:On January 25 2017 06:48 Yuljan wrote:On January 25 2017 03:20 Morfildur wrote:On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com) People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel." And where to you get your inside few that most Germans are fine with it? Having grown up in a multicultural city and worked there until last year when I finally got the chance to say goodbye to Germany, none of the people from my workplace or friends support the immigration policies. Most of the former immigrants too. They are not quite at the level were theyd vote for a right wing party but most of them told me they are planning to leave Germany as well. How did Germany come out stronger from taking in the refugees? Crime rates have surged and most of the refugees will never contribute anything to the country. They are a drain on the whole society and the full impact will only become visible in 10 years. I like how some Germans often portray the world as crazy even though every other country saw the problems this shortsighted and idiotic immigration policy will have. Now they slowly admit to positiones that were labelled right wing/nazi only 1 year ago. To be honest I think the refugees was a major contributor to the rise of populist and right wing parties in the world given that people realized how deluded and shortsighted to current "democratic" (i.e. party oligarchies in the west) governments have become. It definitely was the deciding factor for Brexit. One and a half years ago they said you were crazy if you mentioned theyd be terrorist in the refugees (i.e. the guys fleeing from the syrian army advances - mainly supporters of al-nusra, ISIS and other islamist calling themself the free syrian army). Now we have daily raids on terrorist supporters and I dont even want to count the number of attacks perpetrated by people that came in as refugees. One year ago they said cologne was committed by these bad north africans who just pretend to be refugees. This year a mob of the same men came again and after police controlled them it turned out most of them are syrians. I could go on and on about this topic but I dont blame you for your ignorance. You live in a different world and I truly hope that my fears wont become true and Germany keeps on going as always. I personally have drawn my conclusion having lived in a muslim dominated neighbourhood and also studied in a muslim country for half a year. While I called many of them my friends, I would never want my children to grow up with these people. Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world and bringing in a mass of young, uneducated islamic men is a recipe for disaster of disproportional impact for the future of my former homeland. A state that does not control its border is not state at all so for me the German government has failed in every possible aspect. While a rebellion in Germany seems unlikely, I wouldnt consider it unjustified. User was temp banned for this post. Why was this a ban? Is it the line about "Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world"? You are only allowed to insult catholism or right wing ideas on teamliquid political forums, it seems. While I'm not comfortable calling an entire religion "a hateful doctrine", many of the followers o Islam interpret it that way, and inmigration policy should deal with that. If 0,1% of inmigrants were extremist (hint: number is probably higher) it would still be a MASSIVE PROBLEM, burying the head in the sand is not a solution. Yeah this ban really irks me. It's as if a mod disagreed with his opinion and then just banned him. I'd love to know which rules he broke with that post cause I don't see it. People are so accustomed to racist posts in this thread that they don't even see what's wrong anymore. Really sad.
Classic, try to discuss the negative effects of immigration and immediately get labeled a racist.
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On January 25 2017 22:12 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 22:06 TheDwf wrote:On January 25 2017 22:02 Laurens wrote:On January 25 2017 21:50 GoTuNk! wrote:On January 25 2017 16:45 Laurens wrote:On January 25 2017 06:48 Yuljan wrote:On January 25 2017 03:20 Morfildur wrote:On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com) People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel." And where to you get your inside few that most Germans are fine with it? Having grown up in a multicultural city and worked there until last year when I finally got the chance to say goodbye to Germany, none of the people from my workplace or friends support the immigration policies. Most of the former immigrants too. They are not quite at the level were theyd vote for a right wing party but most of them told me they are planning to leave Germany as well. How did Germany come out stronger from taking in the refugees? Crime rates have surged and most of the refugees will never contribute anything to the country. They are a drain on the whole society and the full impact will only become visible in 10 years. I like how some Germans often portray the world as crazy even though every other country saw the problems this shortsighted and idiotic immigration policy will have. Now they slowly admit to positiones that were labelled right wing/nazi only 1 year ago. To be honest I think the refugees was a major contributor to the rise of populist and right wing parties in the world given that people realized how deluded and shortsighted to current "democratic" (i.e. party oligarchies in the west) governments have become. It definitely was the deciding factor for Brexit. One and a half years ago they said you were crazy if you mentioned theyd be terrorist in the refugees (i.e. the guys fleeing from the syrian army advances - mainly supporters of al-nusra, ISIS and other islamist calling themself the free syrian army). Now we have daily raids on terrorist supporters and I dont even want to count the number of attacks perpetrated by people that came in as refugees. One year ago they said cologne was committed by these bad north africans who just pretend to be refugees. This year a mob of the same men came again and after police controlled them it turned out most of them are syrians. I could go on and on about this topic but I dont blame you for your ignorance. You live in a different world and I truly hope that my fears wont become true and Germany keeps on going as always. I personally have drawn my conclusion having lived in a muslim dominated neighbourhood and also studied in a muslim country for half a year. While I called many of them my friends, I would never want my children to grow up with these people. Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world and bringing in a mass of young, uneducated islamic men is a recipe for disaster of disproportional impact for the future of my former homeland. A state that does not control its border is not state at all so for me the German government has failed in every possible aspect. While a rebellion in Germany seems unlikely, I wouldnt consider it unjustified. User was temp banned for this post. Why was this a ban? Is it the line about "Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world"? You are only allowed to insult catholism or right wing ideas on teamliquid political forums, it seems. While I'm not comfortable calling an entire religion "a hateful doctrine", many of the followers o Islam interpret it that way, and inmigration policy should deal with that. If 0,1% of inmigrants were extremist (hint: number is probably higher) it would still be a MASSIVE PROBLEM, burying the head in the sand is not a solution. Yeah this ban really irks me. It's as if a mod disagreed with his opinion and then just banned him. I'd love to know which rules he broke with that post cause I don't see it. People are so accustomed to racist posts in this thread that they don't even see what's wrong anymore. Really sad. Classic, try to discuss the negative effects of immigration and immediately get labeled a racist.
Classic, try to act as if saying “islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world” had anything to do with discussing migratory policies/consequences of immigration.
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I was gonna say, Yuljan's post is many things, but an attempt to discuss it is not.
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On January 25 2017 22:17 farvacola wrote:
I was gonna say, Yuljan's post is many things, but an attempt to discuss it is not.
Yuljan was just temp banned for 30 days by BigFan.
That account was created on 2004-03-14 07:04:34 and had 2139 posts.
Reason: You have been banned twice already when discussing a similar subject! Go take a month off and think about your hateful post. Hopefully, you'll think things through this time!
If you want to discuss it more go to website feedback. I don't want to read it.  (Not targeted to you farvacola but the thread in general. I am not a mod or similar, just expressing an opinion.)
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What s/he's doing is basically lazy. Spouting opinions that are masked as facts without delivering any source or data so that people can question the basis for his arguments.
By foregoing that he's shifting the work on others to refute his "facts" by providing sources, while he is obliged to do so in the first place.
I've done exactly that and looked up crime statistics and it's not fun at all because in that instance they aggregated data that had to be disected first. That it is tiring and I don't want to spend my evening mythusting right wing propaganda. It is so much easier if a source is provided. Just look at the prime example Trump. Make shit up and hope people don't care about the facts, but about the message he transponds.
Also if he'd been in the UK politics thread one bit during the last months, he'd have known that immigration wasn't the deciding factor for people to vote remain.
All in all he's been lazy, posted opinion as facts without backing (even if they supposedly are true) which makes discussion very difficult for opponents of that opinion.
Also, would you guys be so kind to point out the problem with him generalizing and diffaming a huge part of the world's population and getting punished for that?
I will underscore that you are entitled to your opinion and I happily grant you your negative experience with certain groups, being it muslims, germans, brits, christians, whatever. I won't take that away, but I strongly oppose to deduce a sweeping judgement of all peole based on exactly that, your personal experience. If you want to state your opinion as a fact, back it up. Especially in such an incendiary topic.
On January 25 2017 22:12 Laurens wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2017 22:06 TheDwf wrote:On January 25 2017 22:02 Laurens wrote:On January 25 2017 21:50 GoTuNk! wrote:On January 25 2017 16:45 Laurens wrote:On January 25 2017 06:48 Yuljan wrote:On January 25 2017 03:20 Morfildur wrote:On January 25 2017 00:49 OtherWorld wrote:On January 25 2017 00:00 LegalLord wrote:
Germany, of all European countries, seems least likely to have a populist revolution of sorts. But as someone said way upthread, history will not be as kind to Merkel and her leadership as the German electorate is right now. Why ? Germany is still, economically, the strongest European country (by far, even), doubtlessly has the potential to become the strongest military in Europe if they want to, and is also the key holding the EU together. If we look at economic indicators, the unemployment rate was at more than 10% when she took office, in 2005, and is today nearing 4% ; meanwhile, the GDP went up by roughly 30%, average wages went up, etc. By comparison, in France during the same timespan, under 3 different Presidents and 5 different Prime Ministers, unemployment rate went from 8.5% to 10%, and the GDP went up by only 10%. (source : www.tradingeconomics.com) People outside Germany only see the immigrant controversy and don't understand that most Germans are actually fine with refugees and immigrants, so they think Merkel is the root of all evil. Germany took more refugees than any other country and came out stronger while their own countries took the opportunity to blame everything on refugees to avoid actually improving things, e.g. "Oh, unemployment is high, sorry, we can't do anything with all the refugees streaming in. Blame Merkel." And where to you get your inside few that most Germans are fine with it? Having grown up in a multicultural city and worked there until last year when I finally got the chance to say goodbye to Germany, none of the people from my workplace or friends support the immigration policies. Most of the former immigrants too. They are not quite at the level were theyd vote for a right wing party but most of them told me they are planning to leave Germany as well. How did Germany come out stronger from taking in the refugees? Crime rates have surged and most of the refugees will never contribute anything to the country. They are a drain on the whole society and the full impact will only become visible in 10 years. I like how some Germans often portray the world as crazy even though every other country saw the problems this shortsighted and idiotic immigration policy will have. Now they slowly admit to positiones that were labelled right wing/nazi only 1 year ago. To be honest I think the refugees was a major contributor to the rise of populist and right wing parties in the world given that people realized how deluded and shortsighted to current "democratic" (i.e. party oligarchies in the west) governments have become. It definitely was the deciding factor for Brexit. One and a half years ago they said you were crazy if you mentioned theyd be terrorist in the refugees (i.e. the guys fleeing from the syrian army advances - mainly supporters of al-nusra, ISIS and other islamist calling themself the free syrian army). Now we have daily raids on terrorist supporters and I dont even want to count the number of attacks perpetrated by people that came in as refugees. One year ago they said cologne was committed by these bad north africans who just pretend to be refugees. This year a mob of the same men came again and after police controlled them it turned out most of them are syrians. I could go on and on about this topic but I dont blame you for your ignorance. You live in a different world and I truly hope that my fears wont become true and Germany keeps on going as always. I personally have drawn my conclusion having lived in a muslim dominated neighbourhood and also studied in a muslim country for half a year. While I called many of them my friends, I would never want my children to grow up with these people. Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world and bringing in a mass of young, uneducated islamic men is a recipe for disaster of disproportional impact for the future of my former homeland. A state that does not control its border is not state at all so for me the German government has failed in every possible aspect. While a rebellion in Germany seems unlikely, I wouldnt consider it unjustified. User was temp banned for this post. Why was this a ban? Is it the line about "Islam is the most hateful doctrine in the world"? You are only allowed to insult catholism or right wing ideas on teamliquid political forums, it seems. While I'm not comfortable calling an entire religion "a hateful doctrine", many of the followers o Islam interpret it that way, and inmigration policy should deal with that. If 0,1% of inmigrants were extremist (hint: number is probably higher) it would still be a MASSIVE PROBLEM, burying the head in the sand is not a solution. Yeah this ban really irks me. It's as if a mod disagreed with his opinion and then just banned him. I'd love to know which rules he broke with that post cause I don't see it. People are so accustomed to racist posts in this thread that they don't even see what's wrong anymore. Really sad. Classic, try to discuss the negative effects of immigration and immediately get labeled a racist.
you're a wonderful example of taking opinions for facts.
Please try and contribute with actual content instead of restating an opinion.
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EPT
