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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
my german is at best at 15% and google translated Wanderungsüberschuss differently based on phrasing, once as net migration and then as migration surplus.
net migration has no actual definition, is just a difference between some subjectively chosen numbers(you chose in<->out 2015 numbers, i chose in<->out 2015 minus in<->out 2014 numbers, the article listed(without detracting) the in<->out 2014 numbers vs the in<->out 2015 numbers; no one is wrong - it's omission at worse(you omitted the 2014 numbers and i thought they matter).
now, that's semantics in reading stats, useless by my standards and it's why i went with net migration rate which has a clear definition, it has actual value, it does not depend on ones perspective.
i assumed "rate" exists but was lost in translation because using the above semantics made no sense; that was my mistake.
(migration surplus is a totally different thing and is related to people born under some ... circumstances)
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you will never be able to accomplish that until you unify EU's history; there is some real xenophobic animosity between some populations/members states.
for a change of pace, about origins https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/07/160714151201.htm
Prehistoric genomes from the world's first farmers in the Zagros mountains reveal different Neolithic ancestry for Europeans and South Asians Summary:
Populations in the ancient Fertile Crescent are the ancestors of modern day South Asians but not of Europeans, new research shows. The earliest farmers from the Zagros mountains in Iran, i.e., the eastern part of the Fertile Crescent, are neither the main ancestors of Europe's first farmers nor of modern-day Europeans. Researchers say that this came as a surprise. ...This week, an international research team led by palaeogeneticists of Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz (JGU) published a study in the journal Science showing that the earliest farmers from the Zagros mountains in Iran, i.e., the eastern part of the Fertile Crescent, are neither the main ancestors of Europe's first farmers nor of modern-day Europeans. "This came as a surprise," said Farnaz Broushaki, first author of the study and a member of the JGU Palaeogenetics Group. "Our team had only recently shown that early farmers from across Europe have an almost unbroken trail of ancestry leading back to northwest Anatolia. But now it seems that the chain of migration into Europe breaks somewhere in eastern Anatolia." ...In sum, it seems like at least two highly divergent groups became the world's first famers: the Zagros people of the Neolithic eastern Fertile Crescent that are ancestral to most modern South Asians and the Aegeans that colonized Europe some 8,000 years ago. "The origin of farming was genetically more complex than we thought and instead of speaking of a single Neolithic center, we should start adopting the idea of a Federal Neolithic Core Zone," emphasized Burger.
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you will never be able to accomplish that until you unify EU's history; there is some real xenophobic animosity between some populations/members states.
How about flood the nation states of Europe with millions of people from foreign cultures so that within a decade or two the indigenous populations are in a minority.No shared history.Then it is far easier to bring about a European superstate/"Republic".
Oh wait.
That is exactly what is happening.
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Oh wait.
No it isn't.
I know it happened in Australia, but Australia isn't Europe.
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France’s foreign minister has said Turkey may no longer be a viable partner in the fight against Isis in Syria, while Syrian state media has claimed the failed coup in the country was fabricated by President Erdogan to tarnish the military's reputation.
French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault raised concerns over Turkey's ability to fight Isis amid growing political instability in the country following the attempted coup against Mr Erdogan’s regime.
He said: “There are questions that are being asked and we will ask them. [Turkey] is partly viable but there are suspicions as well. Let’s be honest about this.”
He said he would raise the issue at a meeting in Washington next week convened to discuss action against Isis.
Following his comments, a French diplomatic official said Mr Ayrault did not mean to question Turkey’s viability in the fight against Isis and said that they would remain a crucial coalition partner in the fight against the terror group.
Source
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On July 17 2016 23:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Oh wait.
No it isn't.
I know it happened in Australia, but Australia isn't Europe.
Islamic majority in Sweden by 2035, this estimate was from a few years ago before the current wave so bring it forward a couple years now.
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On July 18 2016 13:13 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2016 23:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Oh wait.
No it isn't.
I know it happened in Australia, but Australia isn't Europe. Islamic majority in Sweden by 2035, this estimate was from a few years ago before the current wave so bring it forward a couple years now.
See, that seems alarming, from wherever you get such misleading statistics from, till you realise that something like 80% of Swedes are atheists and it's increasing as the religious ones are dying off. This is somewhat on the same level of "white British being a minority in London" bullshit. But seriously, stop with your insane comments about Muslim majority in Europe already. Quoting Anders Behring Breivik's manifesto is very very scary.
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Wikipedia says that in 2011 44,9 % of Londoners were white British. Are you saying that it's a lie or that it's irrelevant?
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That doesn't make them a minority, it makes them a majority, unless you class everybody who isn't white British, including mixed white british as a general whole "other". Just like claiming that perhaps one day in a mostly atheiest country *unreliable statistic pulled out from somewhere*. Secondly I have no problem whatsoever with anybody living in my city who is culturally assimilated. His problem was that he didn't like seeing non "British" faces in a country he visited as a tourist.
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Technically they're a minority, but a plurality. And why should we care how much of London is white FFS?
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Afghan refugee with ax attacks passengers on German train
A 17-year-old Afghan refugee wielding an ax and a knife attacked passengers on a train in southern Germany on Monday evening, severely wounding four, before he was shot dead by police, the interior minister for the state of Bavaria said.
Speaking on German public television, Interior Minister Joachim Herrmann said it was too early to speculate about the motives of the attacker, who he said was believed to have been living in a home for unaccompanied minors in Ochsenfurt, near the city of Wuerzburg.
The attack comes just days after a Tunisian delivery man plowed a 19-tonne truck into crowds of Bastille Day revelers in the southern French city of Nice, killing 84.
It is likely to deepen worries about so-called "lone wolf" attacks in Europe and could put political pressure on German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who welcomed hundreds of thousands of migrants to Germany over the past year.
"The attacker appears to have been a 17-year-old Afghan who has been living in Ochsenfurt for some time," Herrmann said. "He suddenly attacked passengers with a knife and an ax, critically injuring several. Some of them may now be fighting for their lives."
Police spokesman Fabian Hench said four people had been severely wounded and a fourth slightly injured. Several others were treated for shock.
The attacker fled the train when it halted at a station on the outskirts of Wuerzburg. Herrmann said the man had tried to attack police when he was confronted and had been shot dead.
German media, citing a spokesman for the Bavarian interior ministry, reported that the man had shouted "Allahu Akbar" (God is great) during the attack, but neither Herrmann nor Hench said they could confirm that.
"There are witnesses that suggest there may be an Islamic background to this but that is far from clear at this point," Herrmann said.
Unlike neighbors France and Belgium, Germany has not been the victim of a major attack by Islamic militants in recent years, although security officials say they have thwarted a large number of plots.
Germany welcomed roughly 1 million migrants in 2015, including thousands of unaccompanied minors. Many were fleeing war in countries like Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-attacks-germany-idUSKCN0ZY2LA
Edit: Police reported like they found a hand-drawn IS-flag, too.
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Just two days ago I asked one of my coworkers why there hasn't been an attack on german citizens yet.... there you go. :-/
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On July 19 2016 06:49 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
But seriously, stop with your insane comments about Muslim majority in Europe already. Quoting Anders Behring Breivik's manifesto is very very scary.
Bring in a million Islamic people per year (actually far more after family reunification) who have a far higher fertility rate than indigenous Europeans and one day the muslims will be a majority.In some places sooner than others, like Sweden for instance.What is "insane" about these comments?
These are facts.
Facts cannot be racist, sexist, homophobic.Either they are facts or they aren't.
I don't see what is hard for you to understand?
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On July 19 2016 17:48 JoeCool wrote:
Just two days ago I asked one of my coworkers why there hasn't been an attack on german citizens yet.... there you go. :-/
Cologne NYE attacks were pretty bad.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/cologne-new-years-eve-mass-sex-attacks-leaked-document-a7130476.html
Authorities now think that on New Year's Eve, more than 1,200 women were sexually assaulted in various German cities, including more than 600 in Cologne and about 400 in Hamburg.
More than 2,000 men were allegedly involved, and 120 suspects — many of them foreign nationals — have been identified.
Only four have been convicted, but more trials are underway.
On Thursday, a court in Cologne sentenced two men in the New Year's Eve assaults. Hussein A., a 21-year-old Iraqi, and Hassan T., a 26-year-old Algerian, were handed suspended one-year sentences. Both arrived in Germany in the past two years, a court spokesman said. He declined to specify whether the two had sought asylum.
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On July 19 2016 18:24 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2016 06:49 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
But seriously, stop with your insane comments about Muslim majority in Europe already. Quoting Anders Behring Breivik's manifesto is very very scary. Bring in a million Islamic people per year (actually far more after family reunification) who have a far higher fertility rate than indigenous Europeans and one day the muslims will be a majority.In some places sooner than others, like Sweden for instance.What is "insane" about these comments? These are facts. Facts cannot be racist, sexist, homophobic.Either they are facts or they aren't. I don't see what is hard for you to understand?
And where are you getting your numbers from? Most estimates of the current Muslim population in Sweden put in in the 4-7% range, there is now way that could increase to 50% until 2035 in any realistic scenario.
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On July 19 2016 18:24 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2016 06:49 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
But seriously, stop with your insane comments about Muslim majority in Europe already. Quoting Anders Behring Breivik's manifesto is very very scary. Bring in a million Islamic people per year (actually far more after family reunification) who have a far higher fertility rate than indigenous Europeans and one day the muslims will be a majority.In some places sooner than others, like Sweden for instance.What is "insane" about these comments? These are facts. Facts cannot be racist, sexist, homophobic.Either they are facts or they aren't. I don't see what is hard for you to understand?
In reality fertility rates of immigrants go down to the average of the country they live in quite rapidly. The same reasons to keep families small apply to immigrants as well.
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On July 19 2016 20:13 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2016 18:24 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On July 19 2016 06:49 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
But seriously, stop with your insane comments about Muslim majority in Europe already. Quoting Anders Behring Breivik's manifesto is very very scary. Bring in a million Islamic people per year (actually far more after family reunification) who have a far higher fertility rate than indigenous Europeans and one day the muslims will be a majority.In some places sooner than others, like Sweden for instance.What is "insane" about these comments? These are facts. Facts cannot be racist, sexist, homophobic.Either they are facts or they aren't. I don't see what is hard for you to understand? In reality fertility rates of immigrants go down to the average of the country they live in quite rapidly. The same reasons to keep families small apply to immigrants as well.
Not true - they have access to Welfare in a way that does not apply to natives.
Also you guys justifying everything make me sick. Do you even have respect for your country, the people who died for it, your grandparents? You would sell your soul for political correctness...
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This is the worst subject because no party actually accept facts as they are. RvB is entirely right, the difference in fertility rates between natives and children of migrants is very thin, at least in France, it might be more in less fertiles areas of europe. As for the question of migration overall, the idea that the natives are getting replaced is not serious, even if, from a statistical standpoint, it is also true that the stock of migrants and children of migrants has now reach quite high level, especially in some area. In the area I live, 35 % of the people are migrants, and up to 60 % of the population has at least one parent that is a migrant, and in France overall the number of migrants and sons of migrants has reached up to a quater of the population (those are all numbers from the INED, the french national institute of demographic studies - this, may I add, is due to the fact that France is a place of migration since the XIXth century).
Some numbers to clarify : we estimate that the number of migrants in France is around 3 for a thousand non migrant a year for non european migrants, and up to 4.3 migrants for a thousand each years with european migrants (which account for 285 000 migrants a year). France count 2.9 times more new birth than migrants arriving (around 820 000 new birth each years). In other european countries, this ratio is a little less : 1.4 in UK, 1.3 in Italy (560 000 new birth for 427 000 entry), and 1.2 in Germany (682 000 new birth for 571 000 migrants, all numbers being average for the last 10 years). It is entirely true, mathematically speaking, that if this situation continue, the stock of migrants might reach high level in those low fertility countries.
As for those migration wave, arguing that they have been tailored to change or replace the culture of those countries is absurd. They have been accepted to lower the cost of labor, period. I believe in the UK it has even been objectified by some official documents from the Blair era (?). Some other things have been tailored to change the culture of european countries, like the euro, who has been designed in such ways : on euro bills, there are only architectural and technical feats, no personna and no historical monuments, and it has been made this way to prevent any kind of nationalism.
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EPT
