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On July 26 2026 05:47 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2026 05:11 maybenexttime wrote:
Why would Joan of Arc be controversial? It's been 600 years. She's a cultural icon. I agree that Ada Lovelace would be a problem. There aren't that many women to chose from, considering they were marginalized for most of our history.
I don't think it's a problem of lack of culture. I don't think Maria Callas or Bertha von Suttner are anywhere in the same league as Beethoven, Marie Curie, da Vinci, or Cervantes. Those are iconic people. Everyone's heard of Beethoven or Mozart, Marie Curie or Einstein, da Vinci or Michelangelo. I'm pretty sure Maria Callas is only known to people who are into opera, and Bertha von Suttner is just obscure.
Also, Marie Curie was Polish, lol.
Obviously she was Polish, she married a French dude and became a naturalised French citizen and did all the important science in Paris. She's an icon of the EU for many reasons and her international mobility is one of them. But France is covered, while Austria is not. Not are many other countries. Two French people is a bit much. Female icons are a problem. I agree with you on that. Especially if we have to exclude the English. Emmeline Pankhurst would've been a good one to put on there too.
How about the guy who killed Hitler? ;p
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I dliske like more than a half of those. Half of the ones with birds and the minority of those with people are okay visually, but none of the them look like they were designed to invoke the feeling of regional pride. I wouldn't care if more than 75% of these bills had nothing to do with my region. That's not what I think is missing. I'm aware it's a very conservative view but I want my (future) banknotes to look as majestic as possible, which means I want the whole group to be dominated by heroes, statesmen (or stateswomen) and heraldic creatures.
Is this something that makes things worse in my opinion? No, of course not. Is this something that will make me feel more connected to people using the same bills to pay for bread, beers or bananas in Madrid, Vienna or Dublin? No. It's not bad, just a wasted opportunity to bring us all closer.
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On July 26 2026 06:04 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2026 05:47 Acrofales wrote:On July 26 2026 05:11 maybenexttime wrote:
Why would Joan of Arc be controversial? It's been 600 years. She's a cultural icon. I agree that Ada Lovelace would be a problem. There aren't that many women to chose from, considering they were marginalized for most of our history.
I don't think it's a problem of lack of culture. I don't think Maria Callas or Bertha von Suttner are anywhere in the same league as Beethoven, Marie Curie, da Vinci, or Cervantes. Those are iconic people. Everyone's heard of Beethoven or Mozart, Marie Curie or Einstein, da Vinci or Michelangelo. I'm pretty sure Maria Callas is only known to people who are into opera, and Bertha von Suttner is just obscure.
Also, Marie Curie was Polish, lol.
Obviously she was Polish, she married a French dude and became a naturalised French citizen and did all the important science in Paris. She's an icon of the EU for many reasons and her international mobility is one of them. But France is covered, while Austria is not. Not are many other countries. Two French people is a bit much. Female icons are a problem. I agree with you on that. Especially if we have to exclude the English. Emmeline Pankhurst would've been a good one to put on there too. How about the guy who killed Hitler? ;p
But he also killed the guy who killed Hitler.
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On July 26 2026 07:06 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2026 06:04 maybenexttime wrote:On July 26 2026 05:47 Acrofales wrote:On July 26 2026 05:11 maybenexttime wrote:
Why would Joan of Arc be controversial? It's been 600 years. She's a cultural icon. I agree that Ada Lovelace would be a problem. There aren't that many women to chose from, considering they were marginalized for most of our history.
I don't think it's a problem of lack of culture. I don't think Maria Callas or Bertha von Suttner are anywhere in the same league as Beethoven, Marie Curie, da Vinci, or Cervantes. Those are iconic people. Everyone's heard of Beethoven or Mozart, Marie Curie or Einstein, da Vinci or Michelangelo. I'm pretty sure Maria Callas is only known to people who are into opera, and Bertha von Suttner is just obscure.
Also, Marie Curie was Polish, lol.
Obviously she was Polish, she married a French dude and became a naturalised French citizen and did all the important science in Paris. She's an icon of the EU for many reasons and her international mobility is one of them. But France is covered, while Austria is not. Not are many other countries. Two French people is a bit much. Female icons are a problem. I agree with you on that. Especially if we have to exclude the English. Emmeline Pankhurst would've been a good one to put on there too. How about the guy who killed Hitler? ;p But he also killed the guy who killed Hitler.
It's Hitlers all the way down.
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Forget about putting women in the bills. Just go with Napoleon, Hitler, Mussolini, Ceausescu, King Leopold II and Ivar the Boneless!
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I don't care that much about what women they put it. I mean, i think they put a decent selection as artist, scientist and writer, same as they did with beethoven / da vinci / cervantes.
The designs are what i find kind of baffling, but i hope the most colourful wins out. Even tho i rarely use bills anymore.
Also, who thought only birds was kind of a good idea ? Probably a wingspan fan.
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I like the colorful designs D and G most. And F: It looks like playmoney but somehow really cool
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Anything other than a US $1 bill hardly even looks like "real money" to me anymore. I almost think the "play money" look and feel is intentional to make it easier to get people to let go of it conceptually.
Ultimately, money is a social/government contract and the aesthetic has wandered too far from that for my liking. That said, H just looks the most aesthetically pleasing to me, "money" factors aside.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2v91xn1z9o
+ Show Spoiler +Spain has condemned the "selfish, polarising and unlawful" reaction of some EU countries to the influx of about 60,000 migrants from Morocco to Ceuta.
Officials say almost all those who reached the enclave on 30 July have returned, while Spain's Interior Minister Fernando Grande-Marlaska said on Saturday that the death toll had risen to at least 67.
It comes after Italy temporarily suspended the EU's border-free Schengen arrangement with Spain, as Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni called the scenes "shocking".
Finland and Denmark backed Italy's move, while Czech Prime Minister Andrej Babiš urged a temporary suspension of Spain's Schengen membership.
In a letter to European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez said he had "serious concerns" about some European governments.
He said the Spanish government had fully restored control over the border and prevented any "unauthorised onward movement towards continental Europe" in less than 48 hours.
While most had shown "support and solidarity", Sanchez said other European governments had chosen to attack Spain, "driven by prejudice, fake news, ignorance, or political interest", and pointed out that Ceuta was not part of the Schengen area.
"The European Union cannot afford this kind of selfish, polarising and unlawful reaction," he said.
Had a very busy end of the week so i could not catch up a lot with what was going on.
The European disUnion continues to live down to expectations.
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I've never met a single person who cares about borders who isn't deeply, deeply embarrassing
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At first I didn't understand why this is such a big issue but then I learned those thousands of migrants crossed the border toghether. I thought it's an accumulated value. This is a huge fuck-up of Spanish security services but I still don't understand why everyone is making a huge deal out of this, especially Italy. Ceuta is located in Africa.
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Because people who like to be outraged by everything are a simple folk and don’t bother to remember that they don’t have a border with Spain, let alone any country in Africa.
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It's a non issue for simple folk and somehow a massive problem for the 22 EU leaders who signed the letter. Even if you want to disregard the Italian initiative they still had Danish officials working with them and 20 other governments supporting them. They know why it's a big deal and I'm only curious why exactly it is a big deal.
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On August 02 2026 06:29 Sent. wrote:It's a non issue for simple folk and somehow a massive problem for the 22 EU leaders who signed the letter. Even if you want to disregard the Italian initiative they still had Danish officials working with them and 20 other governments supporting them. They know why it's a big deal and I'm only curious why exactly it is a big deal.
Goverment was going for an extraordinary legalization of 500k undocumented illegals. Requisites being having no criminal record, not pending a deportation order, etc etc. Also It IS only for inmigrants Who came before 2026 and met the requisites.
Obviously noone who entered Ceuta was going to be elegible for this, but scoring easy points at home is too juicy for politicians.
What happened in Ceuta seems to have happened over facebook where suppossedly "Spain lifted the Frontier". This happens from time to time, specially if Morocco can use It as a bargaining chip of some sort.
Sánchez was on Algeria (Morocco's rival) to negotiate natural gas imports, so there is that.
I also don't know what people expect security forces to do when 50k people overrun the place completely, shoot them ? They are not Hamas members trying to decapitate people.
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You're supposed to have intel on the other side of the border to prevent 50k people overruning your fences in the first place.
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On August 02 2026 07:09 Sent. wrote:
You're supposed to have intel on the other side of the border to prevent 50k people overruning your fences in the first place.
And the people swimming ?
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On August 02 2026 07:09 Sent. wrote:
You're supposed to have intel on the other side of the border to prevent 50k people overruning your fences in the first place.
Well the long term prediction for global warming says this will be a common event. So how do you propose to handle it when Turkey/Russia shuttles them through their country and leave them at the border?
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I personally believe that Spain should give up it's enclaves, I understand those places mean something to them but they are a colonial leftover that is causing huge issues and will continue to cause them indefinitely.
We are talking about 160.000 people, out of them I believe under 100.000 are natively Spanish.
Offer to buy their properties out or replace them with a place in Spain and give these enclaves to the host countries, who wants to stay can, and perhaps a deal can be struck with Morocco to maintain self governance for these places.
This problem is never going to go away and now that the right wingers saw how well these kind of scenes track you can bet your ass that they will start happening more often.
If the current Spanish goverment is as "woke" and for justice as they like to present themselves, this should be the way.
Obviously I'm way oversimplifying this but to me, this seems like the only reasonable long term solution.
I'm curious what do our Spaniard members think of this?
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On August 02 2026 06:44 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2026 06:29 Sent. wrote:It's a non issue for simple folk and somehow a massive problem for the 22 EU leaders who signed the letter. Even if you want to disregard the Italian initiative they still had Danish officials working with them and 20 other governments supporting them. They know why it's a big deal and I'm only curious why exactly it is a big deal. Goverment was going for an extraordinary legalization of 500k undocumented illegals. Requisites being having no criminal record, not pending a deportation order, etc etc. Also It IS only for inmigrants Who came before 2026 and met the requisites. Obviously noone who entered Ceuta was going to be elegible for this, but scoring easy points at home is too juicy for politicians. What happened in Ceuta seems to have happened over facebook where suppossedly "Spain lifted the Frontier". This happens from time to time, specially if Morocco can use It as a bargaining chip of some sort. Sánchez was on Algeria (Morocco's rival) to negotiate natural gas imports, so there is that. I also don't know what people expect security forces to do when 50k people overrun the place completely, shoot them ? They are not Hamas members trying to decapitate people.
You don't really know who they are at first so you want to stop them before they overrun anything to begin with, you'd expect border security to have nonlethal/less lethal options and crowd control options. Fire hoses, tear gas, smoke, beanbags, rubber bullets, etc. To say they're not Hamas members this time misses that again if you don't know who they are, the fact that someone can let this happen, is a vulnerability which is also step 1 to how pogroms happen.
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On August 04 2026 02:47 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2026 06:44 Godwrath wrote:On August 02 2026 06:29 Sent. wrote:It's a non issue for simple folk and somehow a massive problem for the 22 EU leaders who signed the letter. Even if you want to disregard the Italian initiative they still had Danish officials working with them and 20 other governments supporting them. They know why it's a big deal and I'm only curious why exactly it is a big deal. Goverment was going for an extraordinary legalization of 500k undocumented illegals. Requisites being having no criminal record, not pending a deportation order, etc etc. Also It IS only for inmigrants Who came before 2026 and met the requisites. Obviously noone who entered Ceuta was going to be elegible for this, but scoring easy points at home is too juicy for politicians. What happened in Ceuta seems to have happened over facebook where suppossedly "Spain lifted the Frontier". This happens from time to time, specially if Morocco can use It as a bargaining chip of some sort. Sánchez was on Algeria (Morocco's rival) to negotiate natural gas imports, so there is that. I also don't know what people expect security forces to do when 50k people overrun the place completely, shoot them ? They are not Hamas members trying to decapitate people. You don't really know who they are at first so you want to stop them before they overrun anything to begin with, you'd expect border security to have nonlethal/less lethal options and crowd control options. Fire hoses, tear gas, smoke, beanbags, rubber bullets, etc. To say they're not Hamas members this time misses that again if you don't know who they are, the fact that someone can let this happen, is a vulnerability which is also step 1 to how pogroms happen.
Most of them come swimming. Explain to me how well fire hoses, tear gas, smoke, bean bags and rubber bullets work as non-lethal options vis-a-vis people in the sea.
As for Jankisa's assertion that Spain should just give up its exclaves, my question is: why? Based on what does Morocco have a greater right to Ceuta or Melilla than Spain? What happen to self-determination? Or are you just saying that it's inconvenient and hard to defend from invasion?
And no, I'm not particularly attached to the exclaves. I just haven't heard anything at all convincing for why this should be given up other than "Morocco wants it", which doesn't sound very convincing.
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EPT
