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On March 14 2016 10:49 Nyxisto wrote:
big chunk of voters for the AfD are former non-voters also, 10% of the 24% in Saxony did not vote before. It's actually where they've made the largest gains. Whether they'll continue to grow depends on how the refugee situation develops. If the world hasn't ended in two years they'll shrink again.
Given recent history in Sweden let me help you out by continuing your progression of calling voters different names.
You (and the entire left) already have a good start comparing them to nazis without actually saying it out right.
After that the progression is to call them racist (and stupid). When that doesn't work you'll continue on your current track and say they are angry, unemployed young men (ie losers) who are disillusioned. That will slowly morph more into uneducated low income workers until a couple of researchers finally find their balls and put out definitive proof that no, these voters have exactly the same demographics and are not more racist than your average voter.
This will take a couple of years though.
Also note that people don't just suddenly switch to a one question party out of the blue. For everyone voting "wrong" because of a single issue you have two voters who still agree with that one issue but not strongly enough to actually switch parties because they also have other priorities in life.
So your probably saying that 60 % of the population are unemployed nazi losers right now. Which tends to piss people off.
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On March 14 2016 10:49 Nyxisto wrote:
big chunk of voters for the AfD are former non-voters also, 10% of the 24% in Saxony did not vote before. It's actually where they've made the largest gains. Whether they'll continue to grow depends on how the refugee situation develops. If the world hasn't ended in two years they'll shrink again.
Just to get this straight. You mentioned that people didn't vote one out of the plenty of far right wing parties (which get shit results every time) because they are afraid of the social stigma and backlash they experience from a vote in an election which happens to be secret. Now all this far right guys happen to be not afraid anymore from this social backlash ( vote is still secret btw) and vote AFD collectively. Sounds legit.
They'll shrink again is an utterly trivial statement. Of course they'll do. They just had their best result. Green party will shrink again also in BW. A triviality. When all is said and done they were in no federal parliaments 2 years ago, now they are in 8 and didn't miss one since 2014. Once the refugee topic disappears they'll play the euro crisis card again which is easy because Merkel breaks the law in this topic routinesly, too.
I actually wonder if you are too young to vote because you write of social stigma and stuff while the actual vote itself is secret or if you are simply trolling, you might also be a bit "special". Your line of argumentation is utterly incoherent jumping from one topic to the totally independent next one (from voting to non voters to all the right wing extremists hiding in the bushes)...
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Oh come on guys, it is not that hard to understand.
First they were non-voters because they either had no interest in politics or thought their vote for a fringe party would do nothing.
Now, they heard that there is a 'legitimate' option to vote for AND they found a topic that does motivate them to go to the election.
Also, to the guy above lamenting why the mainstream called them racists, have you read their program or heard some of their speeches? They do have genuine 'Social Darwinists' among them, going on about the genetic reproductive tendencies of the Northern African phenotype and such. That is like the definition of racism. But if somebody points that out, it is 'ugly labeling' by ignorant lefties.
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On March 14 2016 16:41 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 10:49 Nyxisto wrote:
big chunk of voters for the AfD are former non-voters also, 10% of the 24% in Saxony did not vote before. It's actually where they've made the largest gains. Whether they'll continue to grow depends on how the refugee situation develops. If the world hasn't ended in two years they'll shrink again. Given recent history in Sweden let me help you out by continuing your progression of calling voters different names. You (and the entire left) already have a good start comparing them to nazis without actually saying it out right. After that the progression is to call them racist (and stupid). When that doesn't work you'll continue on your current track and say they are angry, unemployed young men (ie losers) who are disillusioned. That will slowly morph more into uneducated low income workers until a couple of researchers finally find their balls and put out definitive proof that no, these voters have exactly the same demographics and are not more racist than your average voter. This will take a couple of years though. Also note that people don't just suddenly switch to a one question party out of the blue. For everyone voting "wrong" because of a single issue you have two voters who still agree with that one issue but not strongly enough to actually switch parties because they also have other priorities in life. So your probably saying that 60 % of the population are unemployed nazi losers right now. Which tends to piss people off.
Pretty good post, the same basically happened about the national front. Now we're at the point where FN voters are just less educated.
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On March 14 2016 16:41 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 10:49 Nyxisto wrote:
big chunk of voters for the AfD are former non-voters also, 10% of the 24% in Saxony did not vote before. It's actually where they've made the largest gains. Whether they'll continue to grow depends on how the refugee situation develops. If the world hasn't ended in two years they'll shrink again. Given recent history in Sweden let me help you out by continuing your progression of calling voters different names. You (and the entire left) already have a good start comparing them to nazis without actually saying it out right. After that the progression is to call them racist (and stupid). When that doesn't work you'll continue on your current track and say they are angry, unemployed young men (ie losers) who are disillusioned. That will slowly morph more into uneducated low income workers until a couple of researchers finally find their balls and put out definitive proof that no, these voters have exactly the same demographics and are not more racist than your average voter. This will take a couple of years though. Also note that people don't just suddenly switch to a one question party out of the blue. For everyone voting "wrong" because of a single issue you have two voters who still agree with that one issue but not strongly enough to actually switch parties because they also have other priorities in life. So your probably saying that 60 % of the population are unemployed nazi losers right now. Which tends to piss people off.
I'm quite sure you meant to quote to post above the one you actually quoted.
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Nah, he got the right one.
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The German government will stick by its existing refugees policy, a spokesman has said, after the anti-immigrant Alternative für Deutschland made strong gains in regional elections on Sunday.
Asked if the results in three German states, where support for Chancellor Angela Merkel’s conservatives dwindled, would lead to a change in policy, Steffen Seibert said: “The German government will continue to pursue its refugee policy with all its might both at home and abroad.”
AfD entered state parliaments in all three regions that voted, winning 24% of the vote in Saxony-Anhalt and over 10% in Baden-Württemberg and Rhineland-Palatinate.
Merkel’s Christian Democrat party (CDU) lost support in Baden-Württemberg – a region dominated by the CDU since the end of the second world war – and Rhineland Palatinate, but remained the largest party in Saxony-Anhalt.
The results suggested that German politicians increasingly appear to have two options: rally behind their chancellor, or rail against her.
Although AfD enjoyed considerable momentum, the majority of votes still went to parties who support Merkel’s pro-refugee stance. In all three states, incumbent premiers held on to their seat. In Baden-Württemberg and Rhineland-Palatinate, the Green and Social Democratic (SPD) candidates managed to increase their vote after resolutely backing the chancellor’s open-border position.
Source
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On March 14 2016 17:16 AngryMag wrote:
I actually wonder if you are too young to vote because you write of social stigma and stuff while the actual vote itself is secret or if you are simply trolling, you might also be a bit "special". Your line of argumentation is utterly incoherent jumping from one topic to the totally independent next one (from voting to non voters to all the right wing extremists hiding in the bushes)...
It's actually not rocket science, voters can move to the AfD from different groups. Also you've never heard someone say "I disagree with the mainstream parties, but I'd never vote for the NPD"? There was a social stigma involved with voting right, no matter if your vote is anonymous or not. People in Germany have an aversion against nationalism, and this inhibition is weaker in the east and generally breaking away. People are less shy to move away from moderate liberal-conservative mainstream. There's also nothing incoherent about it, at least I am not surprised that mobilized non-voters turn out to be quite extremist.
You (and the entire left) already have a good start comparing them to nazis without actually saying it out right.
After that the progression is to call them racist (and stupid). When that doesn't work you'll continue on your current track and say they are angry, unemployed young men (ie losers) who are disillusioned. That will slowly morph more into uneducated low income workers until a couple of researchers finally find their balls and put out definitive proof that no, these voters have exactly the same demographics and are not more racist than your average voter.
well they actually are young, male, and uneducated, at least in Saxony where they've made their biggest gains. The demographics are broken down here. The gender gap is especially strong, right-wing politics has always been a sausage fest.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/wahl-in-sachsen-anhalt-2016-wie-die-afd-punktete-a-1081497.html
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On March 15 2016 02:05 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2016 17:16 AngryMag wrote:
I actually wonder if you are too young to vote because you write of social stigma and stuff while the actual vote itself is secret or if you are simply trolling, you might also be a bit "special". Your line of argumentation is utterly incoherent jumping from one topic to the totally independent next one (from voting to non voters to all the right wing extremists hiding in the bushes)... It's actually not rocket science, voters can move to the AfD from different groups. Also you've never heard someone say "I disagree with the mainstream parties, but I'd never vote for the NPD"? There was a social stigma involved with voting right, no matter if your vote is anonymous or not. People in Germany have an aversion against nationalism, and this inhibition is weaker in the east and generally breaking away. People are less shy to move away from moderate liberal-conservative mainstream. There's also nothing incoherent about it, at least I am not surprised that mobilized non-voters turn out to be quite extremist. Show nested quote +You (and the entire left) already have a good start comparing them to nazis without actually saying it out right.
After that the progression is to call them racist (and stupid). When that doesn't work you'll continue on your current track and say they are angry, unemployed young men (ie losers) who are disillusioned. That will slowly morph more into uneducated low income workers until a couple of researchers finally find their balls and put out definitive proof that no, these voters have exactly the same demographics and are not more racist than your average voter. well they actually are young, male, and uneducated, at least in Saxony where they've made their biggest gains. The demographics are broken down here. The gender gap is especially strong, right-wing politics has always been a sausage fest. http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/wahl-in-sachsen-anhalt-2016-wie-die-afd-punktete-a-1081497.html
You manage to contradict yourself within 1 sentence again. Latent right wing extremists didn't vote NPD because of social stigma (despite the vote being secret) but they now vote AFD collectively because magic...
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yes, they rather became non-voters (which steadily increased over the last few decades) and now they've found a party they consider electable again that can mobilize them. I still don't understand how you aren't getting it
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On March 15 2016 02:05 Nyxisto wrote:
well they actually are young, male, and uneducated, at least in Saxony where they've made their biggest gains.
Are you implying that if they were educated, they would vote socialist?
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Higher educated / higher income individuals in Germany predominantly vote CDU/FDP/Green. So no, not socialist. They definitely vote less radical. Unionized working /middle class votes predominantly SPD, the poor and disenfrachised used to vote for the SPD but have largely moved to 'Die Linke', regional parties or the non-voter block (before this election).
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On March 15 2016 03:10 Nyxisto wrote:
Higher educated / higher income individuals in Germany predominantly vote CDU/FDP/Green. So no, not socialist. They definitely vote less radical.
Are you implying that they vote AfD because they are uneducated?
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On March 15 2016 03:01 Nyxisto wrote:
yes, they rather became non-voters (which steadily increased over the last few decades) and now they've found a party they consider electable again that can mobilize them. I still don't understand how you aren't getting it
Because you are saying that the AFD is atleast borderline right wing extremist, explain the non success of right wing movements with social stigma (despite the vote being secret) and then accuse the 15-20% AFD voters of having racist tendencies. Incoherent. There is either social stigma and if the AFD would be too far right they wouldn't have the success of the two last years. Or there is stigma and the AFD is not too far right because otherwise virtually no one would vote for them (like for NPD or whatever right wing movements) otherwise. Or there is no stigma at all because the vote is secret and no one gives a fuck. In all three cases your explanation is simply nonsense (past stigma-->no succes for right wing movements, now succes for supposed far right party because of magic)
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On March 15 2016 03:13 Saumure wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2016 03:10 Nyxisto wrote:
Higher educated / higher income individuals in Germany predominantly vote CDU/FDP/Green. So no, not socialist. They definitely vote less radical. Are you implying that they vote AfD because they are uneducated?
Given the numbers from the last elections, yes. This turned pretty heavily around given that the AfD started as a purely 'anti-Euro' party and drew some support from well off fiscal conservative types. When they were founded three years ago they were basically American Republicans. Since they've pushed immigration and 'Islam-criticism' to the top of their agenda the voterbase has switched around completely. They've actually ousted the former founder.
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On March 15 2016 03:13 Saumure wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2016 03:10 Nyxisto wrote:
Higher educated / higher income individuals in Germany predominantly vote CDU/FDP/Green. So no, not socialist. They definitely vote less radical. Are you implying that they vote AfD because they are uneducated?
Dude has no idea what he is talking about.. The only thing factually correct in his posts that the green party's voters have the highest average (or median don't remember exactly anymore) income.
It is almost comical how he manages to confirm cuddlycutekitten's post.
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On March 15 2016 03:10 Nyxisto wrote:
Higher educated / higher income individuals in Germany predominantly vote CDU/FDP/Green. So no, not socialist. They definitely vote less radical. Unionized working /middle class votes predominantly SPD, the poor and disenfrachised used to vote for the SPD but have largely moved to 'Die Linke', regional parties or the non-voter block (before this election).
And why do educated and higher income individuals vote CDU FDP and Green and less radical ? Because the current situation benefit them more than uneducated people, not because they are more knowledgeable on anything.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the answer is really the same for trump supporters. these parties appeal to base emotions.
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On March 15 2016 03:53 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2016 03:10 Nyxisto wrote:
Higher educated / higher income individuals in Germany predominantly vote CDU/FDP/Green. So no, not socialist. They definitely vote less radical. Unionized working /middle class votes predominantly SPD, the poor and disenfrachised used to vote for the SPD but have largely moved to 'Die Linke', regional parties or the non-voter block (before this election). And why do educated and higher income individuals vote CDU FDP and Green and less radical ? Because the current situation benefit them more than uneducated people, not because they are more knowledgeable on anything.
Sure that might very well be the case. But it's not inaccurate or slanderous to say that the AfD voterbase, at least since their shift towards populist issues, is overwhelmingly male, working class and lowly educated, it's simply what their demographic looks like. And this class has been very receptive to right-wing stuff, at least in Germany. If all non-voters would be forced to go vote tomorrow Germany would be a scary place.
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On March 15 2016 03:53 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2016 03:10 Nyxisto wrote:
Higher educated / higher income individuals in Germany predominantly vote CDU/FDP/Green. So no, not socialist. They definitely vote less radical. Unionized working /middle class votes predominantly SPD, the poor and disenfrachised used to vote for the SPD but have largely moved to 'Die Linke', regional parties or the non-voter block (before this election). And why do educated and higher income individuals vote CDU FDP and Green and less radical ? Because the current situation benefit them more than uneducated people, not because they are more knowledgeable on anything.
Uh? Anyone reasoning with their head and not their heart would realize that the parties that are supposedly "anti-mainstream" and not cut off from people's everyday lives are in fact just as corrupt and demagogue as the usual parties [be it anti-mainstream parties leaning toward the far right or the far left, btw], thus that it's no use voting for them if you think the current situation is not profiting you.
Less educated voters generally tend to vote for more extreme/radical parties (in this day and age, at least) because they are generally more prone to use emotions in their thinking instead of reason, and that more radical parties like to play on emotions (especially fear, unsurprisingly) to get their point across.
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EPT
