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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On January 21 2016 11:05 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 10:39 TMG26 wrote:
Muslim good neighbors yeah, then they gather in number and start their sharia protests. And enforce sharia by themselves on some areas This has been my experience with anything more than a diffuse Muslim population. Add in the fact that they generally resort to terrorism when they meet resistance to doing so, and they would happily send woman to detonate suicide vests in a subway or send terrorists to hold a school hostage. Under certain conditions I have seen them directly state that their goal was to undermine the society (ignored by Europe as a whole just as badly as the directly stated desire of most Arab countries to destroy Israel). However, it's "racist" to recognize this behavior.
"they generally resort to terrorism?" who is 'they' in this sentence? If you're referring to the Muslims from 'your experience', how are you still alive?
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'cause everyone who experienced terrorism is now dead ...
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On January 21 2016 08:45 dismiss wrote:Then I feel like you aren't keeping up with the news if you think wages in Germany rose much over the last decade or that Germany is doing well in Pisa/ on educational spending. 
Wages have been growing recently.
www.wsj.com
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Zurich15362 Posts
On January 21 2016 15:56 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 08:45 dismiss wrote:Then I feel like you aren't keeping up with the news if you think wages in Germany rose much over the last decade or that Germany is doing well in Pisa/ on educational spending. Wages have been growing recently. www.wsj.com
And Germany is doing well in PISA, even without appropriate spending on education. Really, if you discount the 4 different Chinas from PISA Germany is in the top 10 worldwide or close. Among our European peers Germany is consistently near the top, usually right after the handful of Nordics or micro nations like Lichtenstein. Really don't see what is lacking here.
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ok screw that, i wrote a foot long post why wages in germany are not raising (successive real wage decreases for low educational jobs in the last 6 years and 2015 was the first time our aggregated real wages surpassed the level of 2000) and why our educational system isnt really efficient because it keeps people in their social class and then i accidentally deleted everything.
ill repost it later, but first its breakfast time :|
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repost in short form:
our education system is less permeable than those of other industrial nations. the economic standing of your parents predetermine your own educational and with that economical success way more than it should. more people will stay behind the level of education their parents had than will surpass them (22% to 20%). together with the increasing rate of university students it is clear that we have a large portion of people who are failing our education system. this itself wouldnt be the worst thing in the world but we are also having a decrease of un- and lowqualified jobs. in the service sector there are jobs that are so badly payed and the working conditions are so terrible that even though jobs are there, no one is willing to do them which leads to a further decrease in connected jobs. i.e. germany is lacking trained chefs but instead of that shortage leading to a raise in wages it leads to a decline in restaurants which takes other jobs like waiters or dishwashers with them.
wages have been stagnating - at best. 2015 was the first year where real wages surpassed the level of 2000. the high real wage plus last year was driven by an almost non existent inflation (only 0.3%, compared to 0.9% in 2014 or 2.1% in 2011) and a hefty plus in low paid jobs. if the minimum wage has something to do with that is unclear, but i think it has.
taking a closer look at the nominal wage development paints a picture that is a bit different though.
+ Show Spoiler +https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/VerdiensteArbeitskosten/ReallohnNetto/ReallohnindexPDF_5623209.pdf?__blob=publicationFile
there are industries that have a steady above-average increase in nominal wages, like everything that has to do with cars or money. on the other hand there are industries that had an successive decrease in real wages (inflation > nominal wage increase), mostly retail, gastronomy and postal services - typical low education jobs. this has stopped in 2014 but other jobs that are notorious for being payed badly (i.e. nurturing in all forms) still have below-average increases.
what we can say about the reality in germany of today is that there are winners who have well educated parents, are well educated themselves and looking at a bright economic future and then there are losers for whom the opposite is true. guess who is voting for afd.
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Nyxisto will be even happier to hear that his idea of throwing kids into a Jugendvollzugsanstalt is totally working.
http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Panorama/d/7944482/-warum-wurde-dieser-wahnsinnige-nicht-frueher-gestoppt--.html
Iranian, first crime at 14 years old (knifed a man down), going to robbing and violent mugging, serving almost 3 years in jail, with more crimes following after that including damaging property etc. He's now 28. That's half of his life in crime, serving 3 years. That's how well "jail" and "german justice" works as a deterrent for crime.
He killed a woman for no reason what so ever. He saw a woman on the subway, waited until a train drove in, he took a run and rammed her into the train, where she died.
And here's a nice example of how "crime rates in germany are stagnant or declining".
http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Politik/d/7938168/zahl-der-ermittlungsverfahren-verdreifacht.html
The news bit states that investigations against islamic extremists tripled from 2014 to 2015 (which is funny because obviously crime rates are stagnant and stuff).
edit: that SWR scandal is not only regarding the AfD. She clearly said that. Apart from it being wrong to exclude parties that don't say what you like, they also excluded for example the FDP. Which has the same percentage as the green party the last time, which wasn't excluded.
It's pretty much the influence of the SPD and the fact that she doesn't want to honor those practices, which are not democratic. Which i obviously agree to, not just in case of the FDP. The government made the AfD what it is today, they're solely to blame for that. To then go ahead and exclude them from debates because they don't want to deal with the demon they created is fucked up and extremely undemocratic.
And once again it feels like I live in a different Germany than hfglgg. In mine the economic situation for most people had improved, real wages are on the rise, unemployment is low to non-existent, still jobs are being created, our educational system is above average, our infrastructure good (<- here we could definitely do more).
You act like that'd be a surprise, ever realized that different Bundeslaender handle things differently (for the better or worse)?
What you're talking about is a german "average", which is completely pointless in regards to the point you're making. Things being fine in Bayern doesn't mean that things are fine in Bremen or NRW. Which is kinda obvious.
It goes even further down if you look at it on a city-level. It's like saying "well the US does well for itself", until you look at detroit. Do you think they'd say "well everything is going awesome"?
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Zurich15362 Posts
On January 21 2016 23:04 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +And once again it feels like I live in a different Germany than hfglgg. In mine the economic situation for most people had improved, real wages are on the rise, unemployment is low to non-existent, still jobs are being created, our educational system is above average, our infrastructure good (<- here we could definitely do more).
You act like that'd be a surprise, ever realized that different Bundeslaender handle things differently (for the better or worse)? What you're talking about is a german "average", which is completely pointless in regards to the point you're making. Things being fine in Bayern doesn't mean that things are fine in Bremen or NRW. Which is kinda obvious. It goes even further down if you look at it on a city-level. It's like saying "well the US does well for itself", until you look at detroit. Do you think they'd say "well everything is going awesome"?
No idea what you are trying to tell me. Yes, there are big regional differences in Germany. It's actually one of the more important issues Germany has.
I am just going to quote myself from earlier this year, in response to someone arguing the Merkel administration was a net loss for the average German:
Sorry, but this is incorrect. Say what you want about the current German administration, but the average German is certainly better off than some 10-12 years ago, and have had their share of Germany's success.
Germany does have some issues at the margins, namely: Wealth is increasingly unevenly distributed, there is a base of largely unskilled long term unemployed for which there is little prospect, and there are huge regional differences in economic success in Germany.
However, the average German still enjoys record low unemployment, record low youth unemployment, rising wages, a functioning welfare state, free quality education, excellent public services and bureaucracy, low cost of living, and little reason to fear this is going to change any time soon.
The federal government is in the luxurious position to be able to forgo taking any loans even at essentially 0% interest - and being able to do that while still wasting money on expensive social programs of dubious value.
There is lots that could be run better and I personally have plenty ideas what I would do different than the current administration. But it's really undeniable that Germans have it very, very good these days.
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I have no strong feelings and I'm entirely uninformed on the subject, however I feel it prudent to point out that Zatic is making a false comparison. He is comparing the current day situation directly with the situation 10-12 years ago when in reality, regardless of administration, a development would have occured over those 10-12 years (i.e. it is wrong to give the Merkel administration credit for all of the success). Thus a comparison should be made between the 2016 situation (preceded by a Merkel administration) with the hypothetical 2016 situation preceded with some other administration.
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wages have been stagnating - at best. 2015 was the first year where real wages surpassed the level of 2000. the high real wage plus last year was driven by an almost non existent inflation (only 0.3%, compared to 0.9% in 2014 or 2.1% in 2011) and a hefty plus in low paid jobs. if the minimum wage has something to do with that is unclear, but i think it has.
taking a closer look at the nominal wage development paints a picture that is a bit different though.
If you take 2000 as a starting point sure (I actually don't know the numbers that far back). I was talking more about recent trends though after 2010. And yes real high wage growth is driven in part by low inflation but wage growth is always tied to inflation. You're not going to have 4-5% nominal wage growth with 0-1% inflation.
there are industries that have a steady above-average increase in nominal wages, like everything that has to do with cars or money. on the other hand there are industries that had an successive decrease in real wages (inflation > nominal wage increase), mostly retail, gastronomy and postal services - typical low education jobs. this has stopped in 2014 but other jobs that are notorious for being payed badly (i.e. nurturing in all forms) still have below-average increases.
what we can say about the reality in germany of today is that there are winners who have well educated parents, are well educated themselves and looking at a bright economic future and then there are losers for whom the opposite is true. guess who is voting for afd.
This is more about equality and doesn't have that much to do with overall wage growth which is what I was responding to.
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the last 6 years where the first years since 1995 where real wages rose in germany. to be fair they only increased in 3 of those 6 years though and declined or stagnated in the other 3. its still a net plus for that short time frame. we are still not at the level of 1995 though.
so even with aggregated data, which are very rarely useful to work with, most people have gotten poorer over the years.
i also dont think you can discuss wages without discussing equality. wages are always seen relatively to the consumer price index and that should in theory be connected to the households disposable income, which is highly connected to wages. so you kinda compare wages to wages anyway. to get to equality is just a tiny step more and important because the subjective happiness with your wages is depended on the wages of others.
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Uh no, I don't think boycotting TV-debates is a particularly great idea, that also has nothing to do with hate speech on the internet.
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On January 21 2016 23:04 m4ini wrote:Nyxisto will be even happier to hear that his idea of throwing kids into a Jugendvollzugsanstalt is totally working. http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Panorama/d/7944482/-warum-wurde-dieser-wahnsinnige-nicht-frueher-gestoppt--.htmlIranian, first crime at 14 years old (knifed a man down), going to robbing and violent mugging, serving almost 3 years in jail, with more crimes following after that including damaging property etc. He's now 28. That's half of his life in crime, serving 3 years. That's how well "jail" and "german justice" works as a deterrent for crime. He killed a woman for no reason what so ever. He saw a woman on the subway, waited until a train drove in, he took a run and rammed her into the train, where she died. And here's a nice example of how "crime rates in germany are stagnant or declining". http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Politik/d/7938168/zahl-der-ermittlungsverfahren-verdreifacht.htmlThe news bit states that investigations against islamic extremists tripled from 2014 to 2015 (which is funny because obviously crime rates are stagnant and stuff). edit: that SWR scandal is not only regarding the AfD. She clearly said that. Apart from it being wrong to exclude parties that don't say what you like, they also excluded for example the FDP. Which has the same percentage as the green party the last time, which wasn't excluded. It's pretty much the influence of the SPD and the fact that she doesn't want to honor those practices, which are not democratic. Which i obviously agree to, not just in case of the FDP. The government made the AfD what it is today, they're solely to blame for that. To then go ahead and exclude them from debates because they don't want to deal with the demon they created is fucked up and extremely undemocratic. Show nested quote +And once again it feels like I live in a different Germany than hfglgg. In mine the economic situation for most people had improved, real wages are on the rise, unemployment is low to non-existent, still jobs are being created, our educational system is above average, our infrastructure good (<- here we could definitely do more).
You act like that'd be a surprise, ever realized that different Bundeslaender handle things differently (for the better or worse)? What you're talking about is a german "average", which is completely pointless in regards to the point you're making. Things being fine in Bayern doesn't mean that things are fine in Bremen or NRW. Which is kinda obvious. It goes even further down if you look at it on a city-level. It's like saying "well the US does well for itself", until you look at detroit. Do you think they'd say "well everything is going awesome"?
Why is it relevant that he's Iranian? Or are you just heaping all brown people together because you are too ignorant to understand the difference between Iran and Syria, and the problems of second/third/fourth generation migrants, and the problems of the current mass migration wave?
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On January 22 2016 04:37 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2016 23:04 m4ini wrote:Nyxisto will be even happier to hear that his idea of throwing kids into a Jugendvollzugsanstalt is totally working. http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Panorama/d/7944482/-warum-wurde-dieser-wahnsinnige-nicht-frueher-gestoppt--.htmlIranian, first crime at 14 years old (knifed a man down), going to robbing and violent mugging, serving almost 3 years in jail, with more crimes following after that including damaging property etc. He's now 28. That's half of his life in crime, serving 3 years. That's how well "jail" and "german justice" works as a deterrent for crime. He killed a woman for no reason what so ever. He saw a woman on the subway, waited until a train drove in, he took a run and rammed her into the train, where she died. And here's a nice example of how "crime rates in germany are stagnant or declining". http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Politik/d/7938168/zahl-der-ermittlungsverfahren-verdreifacht.htmlThe news bit states that investigations against islamic extremists tripled from 2014 to 2015 (which is funny because obviously crime rates are stagnant and stuff). edit: that SWR scandal is not only regarding the AfD. She clearly said that. Apart from it being wrong to exclude parties that don't say what you like, they also excluded for example the FDP. Which has the same percentage as the green party the last time, which wasn't excluded. It's pretty much the influence of the SPD and the fact that she doesn't want to honor those practices, which are not democratic. Which i obviously agree to, not just in case of the FDP. The government made the AfD what it is today, they're solely to blame for that. To then go ahead and exclude them from debates because they don't want to deal with the demon they created is fucked up and extremely undemocratic. And once again it feels like I live in a different Germany than hfglgg. In mine the economic situation for most people had improved, real wages are on the rise, unemployment is low to non-existent, still jobs are being created, our educational system is above average, our infrastructure good (<- here we could definitely do more).
You act like that'd be a surprise, ever realized that different Bundeslaender handle things differently (for the better or worse)? What you're talking about is a german "average", which is completely pointless in regards to the point you're making. Things being fine in Bayern doesn't mean that things are fine in Bremen or NRW. Which is kinda obvious. It goes even further down if you look at it on a city-level. It's like saying "well the US does well for itself", until you look at detroit. Do you think they'd say "well everything is going awesome"? Why is it relevant that he's Iranian? Or are you just heaping all brown people together because you are too ignorant to understand the difference between Iran and Syria, and the problems of second/third/fourth generation migrants, and the problems of the current mass migration wave?
Because anybody with any sense would have sent him back to Iran after his first severe crime which would have prevented this murder from happening. Sending him to jail after stabbing someone until he has reached majority age and sit him on the next plane to Teheran after that would have been the smart thing to do. Now someone has paid the ultimate price because of some violent madman and some do gooders delusions. Speaking of ignorance while writing posts like this is borderline comical.
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Sent him back to Iran?
Hamburg is still part of Germany, afaik.
But of course we may consider sending all our criminals away. Is there still some space in Australia?
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Also deporting to Iran would be pretty impossible due to Iran using the death penalty (very leniently).
Why is it relevant that he's Iranian? Or are you just heaping all brown people together because you are too ignorant to understand the difference between Iran and Syria, and the problems of second/third/fourth generation migrants, and the problems of the current mass migration wave?
Don't try to bring nuance into it. If you do that you are 'relativizing' (usually the indicator of a healthy mind), the fact aside obviously that Iranians are the best integrated minority in Germany with the highest percentage of tertiary education, but whatever.
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On January 22 2016 05:21 mahrgell wrote:
Sent him back to Iran?
Hamburg is still part of Germany, afaik.
But of course we may consider sending all our criminals away. Is there still some space in Australia?
He is an iranian citizen according to the press atleast so deporting him to Iran seems possible.
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On January 22 2016 05:24 Nyxisto wrote:Also deporting to Iran would be pretty impossible due to Iran using the death penalty (very leniently). Show nested quote +Why is it relevant that he's Iranian? Or are you just heaping all brown people together because you are too ignorant to understand the difference between Iran and Syria, and the problems of second/third/fourth generation migrants, and the problems of the current mass migration wave? Don't try to bring nuance into it. If you do that you are 'relativizing' (usually the indicator of a healthy mind), the fact aside obviously that Iranians are the best integrated minority in Germany with the highest percentage of tertiary education, but whatever.
What does this have to do with this individual? You are really "special".
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EPT
